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  1. #1

    TO THE DEVS: We need changes in the grind for anfalas scrolls & anfalas crystals: problems and solutions

    So after years and years of playing i think its time for me to finally make my first forum post, eventough i follow the forum already for years.
    I know there have been some threads already about this problem, but the fact that the devs haven't made any change about it after a freaking year and 4 month's, presses me to make another thread about it.

    We currently all are aware that the huge and endless grind for anfalas empowerment scrolls and crystals is a fact and really has to change.

    Here are some numbers:

    with all legacy's maxed before imbuement we need about 210 scrolls each LI (make that 3 a 4 each character (diff spec traits)) resulting in 630 - 840 scrolls post imbuement.
    we need about ?? 30 crystals for each LI (cant remember the exact amount here, doenst really mather either) so thats about 90 - 120 crystals.

    so a scroll costs in skirmcamp about:
    - 2589 marks 289 med
    - 10 gift giver bands from RT's
    - 90 stars of merits from BB.

    i ran 4 T5 runs this morning taking me about 2,45 hours getting exactly 2 scrolls and about 12k marks.
    so in that time i obtained 6 scrolls and zero crystals.

    840/6 = 140
    140 * 2,45 hours = 315 hours of running T5 content without wiping. (not talking about locks here as you'll always have the change to get scrolls and always get marks)

    if you decide to do epic battles to grind merits, you have to do at least 2 full plat runs to get enough merits to get at least 2 scrolls taking up about 40 minutes. (by the way, this is ooollldd content....)
    840/2 = 420
    420 * 0,45 = 305 hours of running BB

    RT's neglectible as no one scouts for them anymore. rarely someone wants to do the effort for the deeds but thats it. it takes a hell a lot of time to find and kill all RT's even with RT plugin and hunter. for barely any amount of gift giver brands to barter for scrolls.

    marks:
    840 * 2489 marks = 2 090 760 marks
    840 * 289 med = 242 760 meds

    - crystals cant be bought in skirm camp
    - barely drop in end game instances
    - cost 300 merits
    300 merits = approx 1 hour of BB runs 120 hours of running BB to max out with the crystals.

    so basically the full equation of this is that you need to play 435 hours of BB and T5 content without wiping and running platinum runs to get 1 toon maxed out on his Leganday Items.
    its needles to say that this is absolutely redicilious as with an average player playing 2-4 hours a day it will take him up to 100 -200+ days to get 1 toon maxed out on all his LI's.
    also not everybody has the time, luck to run T5 content without wiping, and running daily BB. just saying.

    it took my hunter after U23 1 year to get all his LI's maxed after the CoS nerf, and he's only maxed on 1 LI crystalwise and i only have 1 weapon and 1 class item.

    so this MUST change

    side note:
    - obsolete currency's this day:
    - sigil of minas ithil
    - coins of grarik
    - embers of enchantment.

    yes embers of enchantement are freaking useless atm...

    solutions:
    - drop the cost of all scrolls in skrim camp by at least 75%
    a scroll then costs: 622 marks: 840 * 622 = 522.480 marks still needed
    - implement the drop of gift giver branches from ALL Rt's end game (from lvl 100 till end game)
    make the cost of 1 scroll 3 gift giver branches or something, something worth getting them (and please make all RT's count for the Roving threat slayer deed not only the lvl 100-105 ones)
    - bring back the possibility to barter end game currency into scrolls like it has always been before west rohan
    25 coins of grarik = 1 scroll -> reason to run lvl 130 erid mithrin content
    100 sighils of minas ithil = 1 scroll -> reason even more to run all the end game instances
    embers of enchantment = put a box of anfalas scrolls in the vendor ->reason to play more instances
    2500 embers = 4 scrolls
    5000 embers = 10 scrolls
    10000 embers = 25 scrolls
    increase the drop rate in instances
    make it a sure drop on ALL bosses T2 up

    add crystals to the skirm camp for 1000 marks or something.
    add crystals to the embers vendor 1 crystal for 2000 embers.
    add crystals to the end game barters 1 crystal for 250 sighils of minas ithil.
    increase the drop rate of crystals: make it a sure drop on T3+ on final boss

    those are just simple things that can be changed and wont take to much time from the devs. if one can easily add cosmetics and housing items to a barter one can do this evenly so.
    you can do the math, it will still take a hell of a lot of time to max out 1 toon.

    many of us have more than 1 toon: MUTLIPLIE TIME AND THINGS NEEDED BY AMOUNT OF TOON....

    putting a box for 6k LP in store aint gonne do the trick. most of us casual players use that to get some handy stuff, or some extra cosmetic slots, occasionally get the new or older content if we have enough, get a stat tome, cool cosmetic etc etc. to make this game more intersting (so we keep playing)

    if you want to make this game more relevant end game, give players the change to catch up descently so when they hit max level they can actually do some descent dps, heal wathever comparing to someone who had the time to level up his LI's over time since the system was born.

    people arent going to play less if those changes are made, they are actually going to play more.
    if more ppl can play end game content with different toons, they can change their toons when they are locked out of loot on one and run it on that toon.
    you'll will actually make this game for interesting and you will make a better player base where ppl are compared to their skill in stead of how far their LI's have been maxed out.

    since the CoS nerf SSG has made several claims the system won't change any time soon. Here on the forums, and also in Cord.
    you guys have a wonderfull game here, that is freaking huge, with a lot of classes. let us enjoy it to the full potention in stead of drowning into hours and hours of old content just to get some scrolls, just to be able to catch up to the curent end game maxed out LI guys just to then be able to run T5 content.
    The majority of the community really isnt asking for a big LI system change. The majority is asking for a change in the ridicilous GRIND of the SCROLLS and CRYSTALS.

    so just some food for the toughts. easy implementable solutions on a short time frame. and if this means we will have to wait 1 more week on the raid or new content, well so be it, with huge pleasure. I wont be able to play it on any other toon anyway cuz they are still grinding for the dam scrolls.

    people who dont want to grind and wait so long, can always but either the valar or catch up box, but a casual player wont buy it, only the impatient one will.

    New year, fresh wind i should say, keep this game alive and make it worth playing even more!

    Kind regards

    Guillaume

  2. #2
    add chance to get crystal or scrolls after deconstructing a LI 60 lvl
    Legacies U25: https://lotrotools.pw/legacies.html
    ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **
    Ololo-trololo

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    you are right, not exactly but yes the basic i dea is that the LI grind is the worst thing in the game and a good reason for many players to quit LotRo
    the proposals you are making are done by many others long ago, latest i remember was just before the last expansion........
    i dont expect them following any of our proposals!
    you know there is 1 more way to get Li scrolls and that is from store with MC and the latest LI package accesable with store points.
    having that in mind dont expect nothing to be done in order to reduse some of the grind, even with the LI update they are talking about for so long..........
    lotr enthousiast since 1996, 12 years lotro player, lifetimer, Loyal member of the Spartans Kinship and leading Steward atm, now in Evernight imigrants from Eldar

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by PulseDiver2 View Post
    add chance to get crystal or scrolls after deconstructing a LI 60 lvl
    this is a good suggestion none has done before, if they ever do something like this expect a really low chance, 1% or less.....
    i ll add on yours, saying, let us craft scrolls and crystalls by using the shards of the deconstracted LIs!
    lets say 1 Li=1 scroll, 4 Lis=1crystal, its not much if you have in mind how much time needed to lvl a LI, but it will help a bit!
    lotr enthousiast since 1996, 12 years lotro player, lifetimer, Loyal member of the Spartans Kinship and leading Steward atm, now in Evernight imigrants from Eldar

  5. #5
    Just run FI School. Two minutes and gobs of empowerments, plus crystals, virtue, embers, purple slotted boots, essence boxes, solvents, stat tomes. Ten chars, 2 schools per day for each char, 20 per day for 8 days every six weeks. That is 240 empowerments every six weeks, plus all the other goodies. All this whining is unnecessary. Oh, of course, for this strat you have to plan ahead (getting your empowerments before you need them, and then resist selling them on the AH), and you have to not be impatient and not be a person who demands instant gratification.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MithrielWielder View Post
    Just run FI School. Two minutes and gobs of empowerments, plus crystals, virtue, embers, purple slotted boots, essence boxes, solvents, stat tomes. Ten chars, 2 schools per day for each char, 20 per day for 8 days every six weeks. That is 240 empowerments every six weeks, plus all the other goodies. All this whining is unnecessary. Oh, of course, for this strat you have to plan ahead (getting your empowerments before you need them, and then resist selling them on the AH), and you have to not be impatient and not be a person who demands instant gratification.
    For the player that just started Lotro, who only has one character above level 100 and has to grind up 500+ empowerment scrolls and 60+ crystals, what is your suggestion for them?

    The players who have multiple alts and have played this game for years (see above quote) are not going to have issues grinding things for new alts. Many seem to have the same laissez-faire attitude towards new players and the enormous mountain they have to climb just to get their LI's leveled up. "Whats the big deal" they say. "Just do X,Y, and Z like I do and it is easy".

    I am constantly floored every time I see something like that posted in the forums. Do they not understand that they have gone through 5 level increases since Update 14 (2014 Paths of the dead) and for THEM this has been a gradual process that spanned 5-6 years?

    The NEW, or returning player, has those 5-6 years of grinding condensed into what we have today which is a ridiculous hurdle they are expected to leap over JUST so they can play the game.

    The player who just started the game, has only one character, very little money/resources/etc, what are they supposed to do about their LIs?

    I ran School as the FI (sub 120. I don't have a 130 so I couldn't do it twice) and I ended up 3, maybe 4 Scrolls before the FI moved to the Spider Wing.

    So a new player, or a returning player like me, how am I supposed to level up my LI in a reasonable amount of time?

    Define 'reasonable'.

    My best guess is I am looking at 4 (up to 6) months if I really grind pretty hard.

    The majority of the time that I have to play Lord of the Rings Online, for the next 4-6 months, is going to be spent grinding almost exclusively for my LI's.

    I am looking at up to 6 months of nearly non stop mindless grinding just so I can catch up and play the new content.

    Is that reasonable?

    What if I want to Dual Spec so I can Heal/DPS or Tank/DPS?

    There is a REASON you don't see many new players in LOTRO who stick it out.

    Posters like the above are making a huge mistake with the "it is no big deal" tact. Long time players should be the ones screaming the loudest from the rooftops to change this system because if it does not get changed, this game goes bye bye. You can't have a MMORPG without new players and this one has been bleeding them for years. New players are revenue streams, something this game desperately needs. The current state of the game is not designed to retain new / returning players.

    Post from the Game Devs who seem reluctant to change the system out of fear of making the players who had to do the full grind "upset" are not understanding one simple thing. THOSE players are not going anywhere no matter WHAT you do to them. Turbine/SSG has done SO much to make people quit this game (mounted combat, constant horrible lag / game freezes for no apparent reason, never ending CTDs <i could go on, and on here>) that if the players are still here after all they have been put through, making Legendary Items easier to level up will not chase them away.

    Complain? Probably. They are always going to complain no matter what and that is just part and parcel with gaming.

    Quit? Not happening. The long term player base of this game are full on Stockholm Syndrome at this point and are not going anywhere.

    A new / returning player on the other hand...

    No modern MMORPG expects a new / returning player to spend such a ridiculous amount of time and effort just to catch up to the current content as LOTRO does.

    I will probably end up doing, as many thousands and tens of thousands of other players who tried LOTRO before me have done, and gut it out for a month or four, and eventually tell myself ' this is NOT fun', and go play another MMO where I get to actually PLAY the game and ENJOY myself.

    Grinding for things is to be expected. All MMOs have that element in them. Some are worse than others. (Looking at you Black Desert Online)

    The more successful ones have a much shorter window of time before their new/returning players can 'catch up' and play all of the games content.

    The level of grinding for LOTRO, just so you can play, is unconscionable.

    The "fix" can be as simple as making the things you need to max out your Legendary Items easier to obtain.

    A revamp might not be the worst idea ever because currently players are using LI weapons as a "swap" and are using crafted weapons to max their DPS.

    That is indicative of a very broken LI system.

    But I digress...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    223
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingaround View Post
    For the player that just started Lotro, who only has one character above level 100 and has to grind up 500+ empowerment scrolls and 60+ crystals, what is your suggestion for them?
    ...
    The NEW, or returning player... a ridiculous hurdle they are expected to leap over JUST so they can play the game.

    The player who just started the game, has only one character, very little money/resources/etc, what are they supposed to do about their LIs?
    ...
    My best guess is I am looking at 4 (up to 6) months if I really grind pretty hard.

    The majority of the time that I have to play Lord of the Rings Online, for the next 4-6 months, is going to be spent grinding almost exclusively for my LI's.

    I am looking at up to 6 months of nearly non stop mindless grinding just so I can catch up and play the new content.

    Is that reasonable?...
    ...
    No modern MMORPG expects a new / returning player to spend such a ridiculous amount of time and effort just to catch up to the current content as LOTRO does.
    You say several times something like "what about the brand new first-time player who's at level 100 and has to do this insurmountable grind..." are you talking about a literal brand new first time player who used Valar to reach level 100? Because otherwise if they played the whole game up to level 100 they're no longer a brand new player. You can play the game for years before ever getting an ILI- so there does not exist a "brand new player" who has to do the ILI grind "JUST to play the game."

    That may seem nit-picky but it makes a difference. A brand new player who used Valar because all they want to do is end-game raid is going to be overwhelmed by the grind. Yes. But someone who's played the game up to level 100 has already experienced several grinds and probably has heard through the grapevine about the ILI grind. It's not going to make a serious player quit.

    Also your assertion that you'll be doing NOTHING but grinding all day for 6 months is way off. Most people just do the MT dailies (45 mins at most) after which you can't do them again until the next day. If you add Dol Amroth and Osgiliath, then it's maybe an hour or two. If you're doing all of that plus getting groups together to do every possible raid and roving threat that could give you a scroll, then yeah you're spending a lot of time each day- but you're shortening the length of how many days you have to grind. So it's never going to add up to 6 months of nonstop grinding all day every day.

    Overall what you're doing to grind seems too much. You're definitely going to burn yourself out trying to do every single daily quest plus every raid and RT. I'd suggest you ease up a little, just do the daily quests and then move on for the day. It means more overall days of grinding, but the rest of your time you can actually play the game and pace yourself so you don't burn out.

    The ILI grind IS annoying- don't get me wrong- but the extreme frustration you're expressing goes way beyond that. The things you say very clearly convey that you want to start the game and instantly be a cap-level character with cap-level equipment so you can competitively play end-game content and raid. There's no other explanation for being so angry if it's your very first character and you've actually played the content leading up to level 100.

    When you say "long-time players with many toons aren't annoyed" that's absolutely not true, since those people have many more hours to grind to get all those ILIs up to max. In fact they're the ones who complain the most often!
    When you say "brand new players / returning players are going to quit" what you really mean is brand new/returning players who only care about end-game raids and want to immediately be maxed out, because seriously no first-time player who's enjoyed the content all the way up to 100 is going to quit just because of the ILI grind once they get there.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Alabama
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    You can already make Scrolls of Empowerment from shards. For the Anfalas ones, you need 42,660 shards per. We have never, if I am remembering correctly, been able to make star-lits from shards. That would be a welcome change. Reducing the number a bit would be welcome with respect to empowerment scrolls. Also would be welcome, for some, if folk would post 'trash' 3rd age LIs on the AH for a few silver so folk could supplement their take by levelling and deconstructing LIs.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by PulseDiver2 View Post
    add chance to get crystal or scrolls after deconstructing a LI 60 lvl
    this...

    100%*(ilvl/60) chance for 1, 100%*(ilvl/1000) for 2
    90/10 scrolls/crystals :P

    oh by the way:
    Quote Originally Posted by Halphast View Post
    Also your assertion that you'll be doing NOTHING but grinding all day for 6 months is way off.
    He was talking about the FI School way.
    for my 10 main alts, I still need roughly 10*2*240 scrolls, according to calculations above that would mean 20*6 weeks.
    that's over 2 years, even with my 11 cappished chars. Glad I got my main Main done :P
    Last edited by EvAmy; Jan 17 2020 at 05:14 AM.

  10. #10
    Back in March of 2019 I returned to this game after a very long break. Within 5 months I maxed out Scrolls on 18 Legendary Items. Legendary Items 19 and 20 needed about 35 Scrolls each. I still needed something like 60 Crystals across all 20 Legendary Items but determined they would all come from Epic Quests so I did not need to intentionally collect more. When I came back, I think 6 Legendary Items were pretty far along, 4 had some progress, and 10 needed to come up from the bottom. I quite right around Central Gondor, with occasional festival visits between then and now.

    When Minas Morgul drew near I took a few months off and returned right before Christmas. As of right now, I need exactly 80 Scrolls and 69 Crystals to finish all 20 Legendary Items. I can still expect something like 40 Crystals and 40 Scrolls from Epic Quests so I am close!

    These days I play by myself and mostly avoid groups. I think I joined 3 Pelargir runs in 9 months. I do not run anything consistently and often go weeks without intentionally seeking Crystals or Scrolls. However, on some days, I run Minas Tirith dailies on 3 or 4 characters. On some days, I run Epic Battles on 5 or 6 characters. Neither activity bothers me and both offer excellent rewards for someone like myself. Oh. All my characters started at L105 to L109 and currently sit at L120 to L123.

    Now, you will no doubt write, "I refuse to run old content like Minas Tirith dailies and Epic Battles suck and festivals are for girls". That is fine, and I hope they add a fun way for people like you to earn Scrolls and Crystals. However, as I play, I find I cannot sneeze without someone handing me a bunch of Scrolls or a Crystal. I simply do not experience the problems you and other people describe.

    Also, I think all your numbers are way off. Minas Tirith dailies (7.1 Scrolls in 40 minutes), Retaking Dol Amroth (1 Scroll in 8 minutes), West Gondor Warbands (2.5 Scrolls in 20 minutes), and Osgiliath dailies (2 Scrolls in 20 minutes) yield 12.6 Scrolls in 90 minutes. In less than 27 days even a sludge like me can max out a Legendary Item for Scrolls. In comparison, it takes me about 90 minutes to run Herbalist dailies and I get almost nothing for those. (I want the pretty picture frame.) So 270 x 7 minutes per Scroll equals 31.5 hours of game play per Legendary Item. Add in 20 hours for slop and that number still seems reasonable to me since Legendary Item progress is forever (I hope).

    For Crystals, I end up earning one about every 30 minutes, mostly from Festivals and Epic Battles. They are extremely easy to get.

    I save all my Marks, Medallions, Gift Giver's Brands, and weird currencies for other stuff like housing items, clothes, and pets.

    Anyway, I do hope they give people like you a way to earn Scrolls and Crystals while your face is being ripped off because the constant complaining about Legendary Items is really depressing.




    Oh. Questing through East Gondor, never repeating a quest, yields about 400 East Gondor Tokens so 400 / 15 = 26 Scrolls per character. You probably hate that idea, too.
    Sophie the Enchantress - Creator, Dreamer, Explorer - Happy yet Sad - Seeker of Beauty and Wonder

  11. #11
    Oh! I totally forgot to mention the Auction House. As I quest, I pick up all the little bits of junk and eventually sell it. Those proceeds go to purchase more Crystals.

    A super duper group player like you can recover things of much higher value from dungeons. Sell that stuff on the Auction House and use the proceeds to purchase more Crystals and Scrolls.

    You probably hate that idea, too.

    Anyway, I chose to write this post and the previous one for returning players like me. There is a _lot_ of negativity in these forums. If you play by yourself or with family, have no need for the latest and greatest, do not mind questing, find easy dailies relaxing, and enjoy festivals, your Legendary Items will ultimately get very powerful. In my experience, they will also function perfectly fine for landscape questing when not at full power. This all assumes you actually play your characters through the regions and stories. If you skip over stuff and try to rush it, well, there aint no such thing as a free lunch.
    Sophie the Enchantress - Creator, Dreamer, Explorer - Happy yet Sad - Seeker of Beauty and Wonder

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    223
    Quote Originally Posted by SophieTheEnchantress View Post
    Back in March of 2019 I returned to this game after a very long break. Within 5 months I maxed out Scrolls on 18 Legendary Items.
    ...
    Now, you will no doubt write, "I refuse to run old content like Minas Tirith dailies and Epic Battles suck and festivals are for girls".
    ...
    Oh. Questing through East Gondor, never repeating a quest, yields about 400 East Gondor Tokens so 400 / 15 = 26 Scrolls per character. You probably hate that idea, too.
    Bahaaaaaaahahaha XD Your posts made me laugh so hard- in a good way.

    Anyhow, I had a similar experience. I spent about a month just doing the easy daily quests, and got my ILI up to max. Ever since then, I run the dailies maybe just once a month at most, just to stockpile. When expansions come out I have enough scrolls and crystals in my vault to max it out again. Previously I was convinced this must be because I only play my main, and people complain about ILIs because they want to make 10 of them. But here you've done 18 and it still seems reasonable! Not the most fun part of the game, I'm sure you'll agree or at least understand, but not the horrible game-quitting "cash grab" people complain about.

 

 

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