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  1. #201
    Cordorvan just said on livestream that he had hear our feedback in the champion section but get relaxed untill we see this changes furthermore we need to PUSH them to update us BEFORE THE RAID RELEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PUSH YOUR LIMITS DEVELOPERS I LL PAY VIP IF I SEE SERIUS CHANGES YESTERDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Argohald Champion(main), Phokalin Guardian, Aljeza Lore master : The Aegean eagles kinship in Evernight
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  2. #202
    Cord of the Rings: February 7th.

    "I have been hearing in recent weeks [...] from some of our champion players who would really like us to work on dps on the higher-end range of where we sit right now. So basically up champion dps at endgame is something we're hearing a fair amount from our champion players who are talking to us on the forums and elsewhere. So I would imagine that is feedback that we will be taking a look at. We shall see."

    4:40 to 5:30 of the twitch archive from 2/7/2020.

    It at least acknowledges that we have been writing a whole lot. I think it fails to fully grasp the systemic issues plaguing our class and other (i.e. rating and critical scaling, mitigation bypass and support in a 3man vs. 12man setting) but I am grateful that there is a potential light at the end of the tunnel.

    Shelob raid is scheduled for 25.4. Odds are this balance patch will either hit at the same time or after 25.4.

    At the absolute least we ought to be able to get Vastins ear when the changes hit Bullroarer and can push for something more similar to the burg rework rather than the cappy rework.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrplaneswalker View Post
    Cord of the Rings: February 7th.

    "I have been hearing in recent weeks [...] from some of our champion players who would really like us to work on dps on the higher-end range of where we sit right now. So basically up champion dps at endgame is something we're hearing a fair amount from our champion players who are talking to us on the forums and elsewhere. So I would imagine that is feedback that we will be taking a look at. We shall see."

    4:40 to 5:30 of the twitch archive from 2/7/2020.

    It at least acknowledges that we have been writing a whole lot. I think it fails to fully grasp the systemic issues plaguing our class and other (i.e. rating and critical scaling, mitigation bypass and support in a 3man vs. 12man setting) but I am grateful that there is a potential light at the end of the tunnel.

    Shelob raid is scheduled for 25.4. Odds are this balance patch will either hit at the same time or after 25.4.

    At the absolute least we ought to be able to get Vastins ear when the changes hit Bullroarer and can push for something more similar to the burg rework rather than the cappy rework.
    Thank you guys for keeping us informed cause i missed todays Cord and i was wondering if he said anything about Champions situation.I am going to watch it right now.From what you said cause my English are not so well i understand that probably we will have some attention/update before the raid released yes?If this is true then those are realy great news.

    Vastin will hear us,we have some very good champions that always try to do the best for the class by giving correct information to developers and also we dont ask for crazy things here or to be overpowered, we want just to have the opportunity to face the other melee classes on equally terms and take back our only spot in 12 man raids that we lost by being useful for the group.Probably we will all be at Beta server to test everything anyway cause we are real hungry for some good changes for the class after so long that we left behind with out attention.

    PS:I dont want something more similar to burg work cause if he do something like that he will make Blue line champions better tanks than guardians and captains if you know what i mean :P
    Last edited by Arandour; Feb 07 2020 at 08:19 PM.
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  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    probably we will have some attention/update before the raid released yes?
    Actually, I said that we'd most likely get a balance pass on or after the shelob raid.
    I presume this as the shelob raid appears to be the next big minas morgul milestone so I'm guessing it'll be the patch most likely to have balance adjustments attached to it.

    We've no official answer as to when this will be dropping.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrplaneswalker View Post
    Actually, I said that we'd most likely get a balance pass on or after the shelob raid.
    I presume this as the shelob raid appears to be the next big minas morgul milestone so I'm guessing it'll be the patch most likely to have balance adjustments attached to it.

    We've no official answer as to when this will be dropping.
    We need couple of basic specific things for every content not only for that raid.Our update should be done before or at least at the same time the raid hits the beta servers not after.
    If they do it after the game for as is lost.Raid leaders make the team before and they should know the possibilities of every class before they decide who will be part of the team.If we are weak at start and wait to make our update couple of months later say bye bye to progression and titles.It will happen almost the same thing that happens with Abyss and i will hated if the history repeated itself.
    Arandour Champion Rank 12-Nerien Hunter rank 11-Runendir RK Rank 7
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  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by arrgy View Post
    There is something seriously wrong, when a little hobbit armed with a little dagger and hiding like a coward in the shadows, and blind luck can do insanely more damage then a combat warrior wielding two blades.

    /signed
    As someone with all classes I agree. I love my burg, but his damage is insane compared to the Hunter and Champion, the two supposed DPS classes. I remember, long ago, when my burg was secondary and Mischief's debuffs and CC were what mattered in groups, while my two dps'ers were just that.

  7. #207
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    From what Cordovan said we will not have a hot fix but some kind of balance pass and probably they are going to work only for our two DPS specs so we can be viable and competitive for new raid and instances in general.I will write here what i think we need and by priority.
    Feel free to add on this list something that i might forgot.

    Red Line.

    Obviously Red line is our priority cause even if they dont do anything for yellow has issues but at least is viable.So in my opinion Red line needs some things that if they work on them probably some of them will have good effect for yellow line too:

    1:Mitigation bypass for all Red line skills by 10/15%.Dont need to mention again why i think this is priority we talked about this many times in this thread and not only.

    2:Base damage boost for all Red line skills.

    3.Fixing of critical and devastating critical issues.

    4.Fixes to bleed damage.

    5.Proper up scaling for Horn Of Gondor.


    Yellow Line.

    1.Base damage boost for some Yellow line skills.

    2.Proper up scaling for Rend armor debuff.I am not sure that 65k are enough to make champions useful as they were some time before and its our only good supporting skill.

    3.Proper up scaling for Flury to give more critical rating.Remains the same like when we were 105 lvl.



    Self heals.

    1.Percentages for bracing attack.

    2.More heal,less cool down for Fight on.

    General changes.

    1.When we are in Yellow line Fervour gives the ability to have more tactical mitigation.The more fervour the more TM.It will be very useful cause heavy armor in general have low tactical mitigation,if they can give that bonus for Red line too cause is more important and useful to have it for boss fights than trash pulls.

    2.Less cool down for Clobber.( Back in the days Champions was very useful for their ability to interrupt inductions.Now everyone more or less can do interrupts with the same cool down).

    3.Proper up scaling for battle frenzy to give more physical mastery.

    4.Less cool down for sprint.(5 minutes cool down make the skill completely useless and even with trait points 3 min is long ).


    Those in my opinion are the biggest issues and with that order of importance.Feel free to add more or change the order of something that you feel is more important.

    PS:It will be nice for once to have a balance pass in depth at least for some core up scaling mostly issues so we dont have to worry if we are going to up scale correctly every time the level cap increasing.
    Last edited by Arandour; Feb 12 2020 at 08:09 AM.
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  8. #208
    In order of importance, heres what I want:

    1). nerf crit multiplier legacy and buff base damage across the board. Fix Deep Strikes.

    2). adjust all skill & trait tree based rating buffs/debuffs to become % buffs/debuffs. Leave the legacy rating adjustments alone.
    2a). Equalize Two Handed and Dual Wield damage for red/yellow.

    3). get rid of battle frenzy's periodic fervour generation, significantly buff wild strike fervour generation, devastating strike fervour generation, and add in another builder or two so we can transition back to a builder-spender playstyle instead of a "wait for battle frenzy" playstyle. Change the "chance to generate fervour" on blade skills in yellow line to "Blade Wall has a 33/66/100% chance to generate 2 fervour on use." Add Horn of Champions as a fervour generator, make blue line give the outgoing damage reduction buff. Change controlled burn to an instant ability. Increase Controlled Burn buff uptime to somewhere between 33% and 50% either by reducing the cooldown or increasing the buff duration.

    4). Mitigation Bypass in red & yellow line. Change Champions Duel to increase your damage dealt by 15% and reduce the duel targets mitigations by 15%, no more stacking damage buff. Reduce the buff duration to 10/15 seconds as needed to balance.

    5). Fix class defensives (Fight On, Fear Nothing, Bracing Attack at MINIMUM) and buff Blue line to become relevant. (Heavy Shields!) Fight On needs some form of instant heal or morale bubble to make it immediately relevant, also needs to be instant. Fear Nothing needs to be instant, way the hell lower cooldown (5 to 15s BASELINE) and remove 1 to 4 debuffs per activation as with Guardian cleanse. Bracing Attack needs to scale to a %. Either a % of damage done (which then needs to massively increase and the cooldown needs tweaking) or a % of max health on use (and again, cooldown needs looking at).

  9. #209
    If we really hope that any changes will be done to the class in a feasible time frame, I think we should not be pushing for fancy mechanics changes, skill rewors and a general class make-over. Champion needs work now and not much is needed to bring the class more in-line with current DPS standards/demands.

    * Buff up Red base damage (lower crit mag. legacy if need be, but make it so it affects devastates too) and add mitigations bypass (could be self-only);

    * %-based self-heals

    * fix scaling on the skills forgotten since 105 (we all know what they are)

    * fix the damn dwarf animations

    This should be done as a hotfix, just like wardens had, and can't come soon enough.

    Yes, the class needs more work than that (lots of great suggestion already presented here and all over the champ board), and I hope it'll have its fair share of developer attention, but I really think we have to be realistic here. With the raid being close to release, and the dev team probably shifting to the next zone work (if haven't already), we may be getting only some patch work, if we receive any attention at all.

  10. #210
    I can understand the desire to get just the changes we need. The problem I have with that is when are we likely to get another balance pass again?

    Can we afford to settle for just numbers tweaks? Will we remain viable into the next expansion/level cap increase if our numbers are only changed slightly or will this just temporarily suppress the issue of our class being poorly balanced.

    I can understand the feeling of "lets bargain for what we need" but I reject the premise that we deserve anything less than a fully-functional, well-balanced, future-proofed class.

    We deserve better than being ignored. Its time for us to inform the devs that we need a lot of work because they've been putting this off for so long.

  11. #211
    Ok, so we are currently in the process of parsing our dps classes on the housing dummy to get an idea who and on what class will be part of the progression team and that allows me to give a much better informed opinion than I had before

    Basically, our RKs and Wardens currently parse in the vicinity of 135-140k on single target. One of our Wardens posted a 55k on off-targets. Meanwhile our Champion posted 87k in red line and 75k single target + 50k on off target in yellow line


    Given the fact that Champions get a little more support than RKs and Wardens their dps should be a little lower on the dummy (in order to be balanced in a raid environment) but obviously in the current state it's far too low

    Red line seems the easy one, the spec needs a dummy dps of at least 120k, probably closer to 125k in order to compete with RK and Warden for single target dps in fellowship and raid support scenarios. Since our Champ is elf and plans to race switch to highelf I'm gonna round her 87k up to 90k.
    First step would be a 10% personal mitigation bypass for strike skills in red line. The dummy has 40% mitigations, so the dps you do is 60% of your unmitigated damage. If a 10% mitigation bypass was added that would bring the dps to 70% of unmitigated damage. For our Champ that means 90k/6*7=105k. So you'd need to boost skill damage by about 20% on top of that (which would result in 105k*1,2=126k) - I'm obviously speaking about actual 20% not +20% in Lotro's additive calculations

    Yellow seems the harder one because it's direction ultimately relies on a design decision. Back in the old days when we had less skill points (Throne times) yellow used to be the "kill everything at the same time but have little focused damage". Currently yellow lines through increased skill points spent in red has gotten more focused damage. The problem of the former is it becomes a speciality spec useful only for few circumstances, most of the time you want AoE but still focused damage on a dangerous single target

    It's quite clear that yellow Champs are also too weak when compared to Wardens (75k/50k vs 140k/55k). Overall I think yellows off target dps should be increased slightly, so that it's little higher than Warden but not much. Somewhere around 60k to at most 65k. Single target dps should be increased to around 105k on the dummy. Since I expect the stronger support that Champions get compared to Wardens to close the dps gap by ~15k you'd look at something like 120 vs 140 for the focus target. In addition to that Champs would have slightly higher off-target dps and also a little better surviveability (see below). Utility would be about equal with Rend, Horn, Interrupt for Champ vs Marked/Diminished Target for Warden

    As far as surviveability is concerned..make Bracing Attack percentage based

    That's all


    Quote Originally Posted by mrplaneswalker View Post
    I can understand the desire to get just the changes we need. The problem I have with that is when are we likely to get another balance pass again?

    Can we afford to settle for just numbers tweaks? Will we remain viable into the next expansion/level cap increase if our numbers are only changed slightly or will this just temporarily suppress the issue of our class being poorly balanced.

    I can understand the feeling of "lets bargain for what we need" but I reject the premise that we deserve anything less than a fully-functional, well-balanced, future-proofed class.

    We deserve better than being ignored. Its time for us to inform the devs that we need a lot of work because they've been putting this off for so long.
    Just saying..the Warden Hotfix which was nothing else other than some numeric damage buffs and +2 pulses has made a deeply flawed class work incredibly well. There's still 100 issues with Warden (like their legacies sucking completely) but you can overlook them because the class still works very well

    Whether, for example, Flurry gets scaled or not is not important in the bigger picture

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrplaneswalker View Post
    We deserve better than being ignored. Its time for us to inform the devs that we need a lot of work because they've been putting this off for so long.
    I agree with you but i have a theory about that,i am not sure if its correct but this is what i think about the situation.
    They did our update 2+ years ago same with wardens.Not much been done for both classes back then.Wardens was in worst position since Anvil so they start asking for changes before we do and Vastin hear them and make couple of hot fixes for them to become viable.Now after wardens update (and burglars obviously) Champions are in worst position but from what i see couple of months after we take our issue to their attention we have seen light in the tunnel that something will be done for as also before the raid released so we can be viable and competitive.
    The cycle starts with Champions and Wardens, then they update the other classes one by one.My point is that probably Vastin is not responsible for letting us so behind cause another developer made our update 2 years ago that probably he is not even working here anymore and Vastin took after him and had to follow a schedule and not let the other classes with out an updated because of as.He is responsible for making burglars way to op tho and cost our dps spots but not because we left with out attention.
    Now is his turn to see what is going on with champions,their potentials,their weaknesses and what should be done.I also think that after he deal with champions he wlll nerf also burglars at least a bit so they can be equal with other classes and not so far in front.

    Also i agree with Chris,we should see the bigger picture here.Yes we should write down our issues,yes they should know about them and the more they can fix with the time that they have the better but the bigger picture here is that if with what they do they can make us competitive with the top classes at the moment then its fine by me and i dont care if they will make less CD for sprint and clobber for example.Give the mitigation's for Red,boost our base damage for both specs and i will be happy.At least the mitigation bypass is something that will be bound with us for ever and we need at least one good long lasting change like this.
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  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    Also i agree with Chris,we should see the bigger picture here.Yes we should write down our issues,yes they should know about them and the more they can fix with the time that they have the better but the bigger picture here is that if with what they do they can make us competitive with the top classes at the moment then its fine by me and i dont care if they will make less CD for sprint and clobber for example.Give the mitigation's for Red,boost our base damage for both specs and i will be happy.At least the mitigation bypass is something that will be bound with us for ever and we need at least one good long lasting change like this.
    This is where I disagree with you.

    Its the devs responsibility to decide what the can fix and what they have time to fix.
    Ideally, we should organize what we want in order of importance. But we NEED to ask for EVERYTHING that we want. They can decide what they'll fix but we need to provide them a full and complete list of EVERYTHING which is not functioning for the class or which is going to fail in a level cap or two. Ratings are one of these things, ratings have failed to scale across expansions. Us lacking mitigation bypass is another. Crit damage scaling is yet another which ties in with base damage. Blue line as a whole (Dire Need in particular) is yet another.

    The devs can only change what they are aware of, and as players of this class we are in a unique position to inform the devs of how all the different component parts function together. Cordovan has played Champion on his stream a couple times, but he has primarily played it in landscape content. Fight On and Fear Nothing might work just fine for landscape content and the devs may have a great deal of experience with using those abilities in landscape content, but it then falls to us to let the devs know that these do not function at all in a similarly okay fashion for high-level instanced content.

    We have to thoroughly fill in all the gaps in knowledge between design decisions and all the different types of content which exist in this game. And to best do that we need to let the devs know everything which is not scaling properly, not functioning as intended, and whats not going to scale properly (crit rating legacy!) so that they can be aware of all the different issues and fix them instead of being drawn back into "hey, we need another balance pass" every year or so.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrplaneswalker View Post
    This is where I disagree with you.

    Its the devs responsibility to decide what the can fix and what they have time to fix.
    Ideally, we should organize what we want in order of importance. But we NEED to ask for EVERYTHING that we want. They can decide what they'll fix but we need to provide them a full and complete list of EVERYTHING which is not functioning for the class or which is going to fail in a level cap or two. Ratings are one of these things, ratings have failed to scale across expansions. Us lacking mitigation bypass is another. Crit damage scaling is yet another which ties in with base damage. Blue line as a whole (Dire Need in particular) is yet another.

    The devs can only change what they are aware of, and as players of this class we are in a unique position to inform the devs of how all the different component parts function together. Cordovan has played Champion on his stream a couple times, but he has primarily played it in landscape content. Fight On and Fear Nothing might work just fine for landscape content and the devs may have a great deal of experience with using those abilities in landscape content, but it then falls to us to let the devs know that these do not function at all in a similarly okay fashion for high-level instanced content.

    We have to thoroughly fill in all the gaps in knowledge between design decisions and all the different types of content which exist in this game. And to best do that we need to let the devs know everything which is not scaling properly, not functioning as intended, and whats not going to scale properly (crit rating legacy!) so that they can be aware of all the different issues and fix them instead of being drawn back into "hey, we need another balance pass" every year or so.
    Of course we should provide every issue and ofc they will decide what they will fix or not i think we say the same thing.But i will be happy tho even if they dont fix some issues and give only the attention to some core things that make as viable for new raid.
    Like Chris said,you care about flurry if its fixed or not if you can reach 150/160k at dummys?
    We need long lasting changes no doubt about that and i was the first who said that,i dont want to worry every time the level cap increase if we will be proper up scaled or not but also we have to be realistic here.New raid is already at Beta,new notes posted tonight and i see nothing about Champions changes.You prefer to loose the raid and have a medium balance pass couple of months later,or some very basic things right now and not loose the raid.

    Cordovan cannot have full view of what is going on if he play only in landscape.For solo landscape content champion is perfect class but to play at high tiers in a group it is completely different think.I agree with you its up to us to inform them for every issue and we do that in my opinion at least for couple of months now.To what they will fix of course and if they will fix anything at all and just let us again to the bench watching the others playing its up to them.
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  15. #215
    Our beloved devs are working realy hard to bring us the new Rohan Housing neighborhood so they can get some cash grab to hold their salaries untill their next cash grab idea. So chanpions update is not a cash grab option as it seems for at least the next update(s)

    Well the immediate satisfaction seems better economic movement than long term investment.
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  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    Like Chris said,you care about flurry if its fixed or not if you can reach 150/160k at dummys?
    We need long lasting changes no doubt about that and i was the first who said that,i dont want to worry every time the level cap increase if we will be proper up scaled or not but also we have to be realistic here.New raid is already at Beta,new notes posted tonight and i see nothing about Champions changes.You prefer to loose the raid and have a medium balance pass couple of months later,or some very basic things right now and not loose the raid.
    I would prefer for both flurry to be fixed AND us able to reach 150/160k (or whatever they choose as baseline provided it exceeds burgs.)
    Ignoring basic class mechanics which function as DPS multipliers for a numbers hotfix means that those same multipliers will count for even less in the next expansion and even less beyond that. Not fixing things like ratings means that we're going to have this discussion again.

    I would prefer to lose the raid and gain an in-depth rework for champs which will hold up for at least 2 to 3 years than to get a quick hotfix.

  17. #217

    Champion: Revamp needed - MY Suggestions

    My Champion Revamp Video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ3L...NVsNI2&index=1

    *Please note that these are "MY" suggestions.


    Watch also:

    Negative Effects of the Disarmed Effect Debuff:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCzt...NVsNI2&index=2

    Champion Blue Line Joke:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8dE...NVsNI2&index=6

    *Please comment on my suggestions / videos. Thank you.

  18. #218

    Help b4 Raid

    Champs need a major upgrade in redline BEFORE raid drops . I hate quick fixes but at this point I think most champs will take what they can get. Double base damage across the board for red line skills, a mitagation bypass in red and maybe scale up Rend from the dark ages to % based. And how about a Raid set bonus that actually will increase damage.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Tullkas View Post
    Champs need a major upgrade in redline BEFORE raid drops . I hate quick fixes but at this point I think most champs will take what they can get. Double base damage across the board for red line skills, a mitagation bypass in red and maybe scale up Rend from the dark ages to % based. And how about a Raid set bonus that actually will increase damage.
    Look, I'm in total agreement that Champions need some kind of work in order to become viable at single target DPS. But exaggerating doesn't help your case. Doubling the damage is clearly a ridiculous request, Champions aren't currently that bad. Let's at least ask for realistic things.
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  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tullkas View Post
    Champs need a major upgrade in redline BEFORE raid drops . I hate quick fixes but at this point I think most champs will take what they can get.
    Two quick hot fixes have been made for Wardens also and now they are among the top dps classes.My point is that doesn't necessary mean that we will have better results if the attention will be in depth later or just couple of hot fixes now and obviously we have many examples about balance passes in "depth" that didnt went well.
    So In my opinion they are already late,they could have done our hot fix before 6 mans released so we wont be the last option to fill a group but better late than never.The hot fix should definitely been done before the raid tho so we wont miss it.
    Red line is priority of course but Yellow need attention too.Some buffs/skills in Yellow havent upscale properly for years and also couple of skills have very weak damage.

    Another think i want to mention and this goes directly to developers.

    Please,If you are going to do just a fast hot fix before the raid, DO NOT , i repeat DO NOT !!! waste precious time with Blue line,couple of changes to blue wont make any difference at the moment neither for raid or 6 mans at high tiers.
    Give everything you got for the two other primary specs,by priority Red and then Yellow and please fix as many issues as you can.

    If you dont make a hot fix now for our dps and do a balance pass after some months then yes you should give some attention to blue line so we can be viable as tanks for 3 and 6 mans instances but keep in mind that tanking is our secondary role and not primary.
    Our primary role is to make damage ether for single or multiple targets.

    Thank you for your time.
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  21. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    Two quick hot fixes have been made for Wardens also and now they are among the top dps classes.My point is that doesn't necessary mean that we will have better results if the attention will be in depth later or just couple of hot fixes now and obviously we have many examples about balance passes in "depth" that didnt went well.
    So In my opinion they are already late,they could have done our hot fix before 6 mans released so we wont be the last option to fill a group but better late than never.The hot fix should definitely been done before the raid tho so we wont miss it.
    Red line is priority of course but Yellow need attention too.Some buffs/skills in Yellow havent upscale properly for years and also couple of skills have very weak damage.
    The most realistic expectation that you can have at this stage, is that we will have to put up with champions being bottom tier single target DPS for the rest of the expansion. There's a very high chance that nothing will be done. Just thought I'd say that, because you seem to be under the impression that there might be some hotfix coming. There isn't. No blue name has spoken on this topic, because it's not on their radar. That's just the way it is. I wish that wasn't the case, because I also main a champion, but this is just realistic.
    Feailuve, Akabath, Failure - Evernight
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  22. #222
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    623
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeviternus View Post
    The most realistic expectation that you can have at this stage, is that we will have to put up with champions being bottom tier single target DPS for the rest of the expansion. There's a very high chance that nothing will be done. Just thought I'd say that, because you seem to be under the impression that there might be some hotfix coming. There isn't. No blue name has spoken on this topic, because it's not on their radar. That's just the way it is. I wish that wasn't the case, because I also main a champion, but this is just realistic.
    Its not only our single target.The balance gap between dps classes is huge at the moment and because we are not the only ones that say that i dont think that they will let it like this with out doing anything.Also Cordovan said almost a month ago that Vastin is aware of the situation and probably something is going to do for us.If they leave the situation like this then Champions and probably Hunters too are out of the raid for sure at least for the first 3-4 months until the raid will be in farming mode.It will happen the same think like Abyss and i dont want even think about to go trough the same situation again so i keep some hope.I have to or else i will uninstall the game cause i dont like play anything else than champion.I have to sometimes but doesn't mean that i like it also.
    Arandour Champion Rank 12-Nerien Hunter rank 11-Runendir RK Rank 7
    Kinship PRIME-Evernight Since May 2007
    Borzol R12-Mauhnakh R9-Varcolac R9-Sumnor R8-Orcapo R8 (Creep status retired)

  23. #223
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,058
    In the light of the BR 25.3 preview I've studied the new progressions. From this I can confirm that Armour penetration from hidden tier 2 and 3 effects is progressing like Physical Mitigation and not like armour values. tier 2 conforms to -5/3 points and tier 3 to -10/3 points of trait phys.mit. 10/3 at lvl130 is equal to 10/3 / 0.8 = 4 1/6 ilvl 449 essences of phys.mit.

    I can't tell about the visible Enhancement III values in Anvil(all) or Abyss(T2), because it's a propriety formula.

    Btw, also Captain's Defending effect aligns with physical mitigation (0.8 points trait phys.mit.) and not armour.
    Captain's Cry of Vengeance Armour buff (I don't know if the tooltip stills says armour or phys.mit. now) contains 2.4 points of trait phys.mit.
    Virtue Armour is indeed armour.
    I haven't checked Minstrel's Tale of Tales Armour. Last time I looked at it, it was still an untouched propriety formula.

    I don't know so quickly about other armour traits/effects.

    Overall: if you have an armour value in an effect (player/mob level based) then it's either (modernized/normalized) phys.mit. or (old) propriety.
    Item related armour values are indeed armour. (virtue ranks are mapped to item levels, which are converted to item values).

    Edit: btw, the newest essences contain only 0.8 points of stats now, while essence slots are still valued at 1 point. In other words, if the ilvl of the essence is close to the item's ilvl then you loose 0.2 points of stats and it's better to have an item without essences. Only slot essences which are considerably higher in ilvl or if you really need the specialization.

    Edit2: Minstrel ToT Armour equals 4/3 points of trait phys.mit. so likely also physical mitigation only.
    Last edited by Giseldah; Feb 19 2020 at 09:37 AM.

  24. #224
    From todays Bullroarer Patchnotes:
    ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ____________w
    Classes:
    ......
    Burglar
    - Burglar Red Line AoE damage is higher than expected.
    - Reduced Flashing Blades and Double Edged Strike dmg by ~10%.
    ....
    Champion
    - Bumped Blade and Strike skill dmg by ~10%.
    Hunter
    - The Hunter's poison curative abilities have been powerful enough to effectively negate any curable poison mechanic in runs for a while. We felt it was necessary to implement a more significant cooldown limit on how often they can be used.
    - AoE poison cure now has a longer CD [10s->45s], single target cure now has a cooldown [0s->5s].
    - Tweaked hunter direct dmg up slightly across the board to help compensate for the reduced utility.
    Rune-Keeper
    - Yellow Runekeeper damage efficiency is a bit too high atm.
    - Reduced Writ of Lightning (-~5%), Ceaseless Argument (-~5%) & Static Surge (-~10%) damage.

    ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ __________


    I really hope that this is not all we will get...
    Server Gwaihir - Kinship Nightfalls

  25. #225
    Well at least some class work is being done,so maybe more will follow in next builds.These flat % increase are cheap fixes that dont address core problems.Red desperatly needs some form of mit pen.
    They can also try to work a bit on skill damage to reduce weapon swaping impact.But I dont think they can remove it completly as other classes would need to be looked at.

 

 
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