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  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Lovely job of not addressing the intended word I was talking about. But . . . Sorry, my bad, I supposed you are "entitled" to response. Here we go then . . .
    If you honestly think "jerk" was worse than "entitled," I can't help you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Let's drop the second alt from the picture, and just concentrate on one. Same deal!
    Except not? Not even in your example of yourself as a new player?


    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    I haven't seen anyone calling any dev a name. Maybe I missed it, but I'll take a scan through the thread later to see if I can find it. it must be in here right? If it is, then you have my backing - it's not needed in debate. Neither is calling other players names when they have a different opinion than you.
    I said, "Saying horrible things about the devs." Name-calling is a subset of being insulting.

    I just went through and reread the first few pages, and if you don't see the insults, I really don't know what you're reading.

    A good half of them are directed at OTHER PLAYERS who dare to like the game we have. That's actually worse.

    (ETA: I hope you realize I'm not singling out anything you said specifically, and I wasn't in my original post. ETA2: Going back and reading what you've specifically posted in this thread, I wouldn't call any I've seen insulting. You seem to jump in quickly to argue against the idea that insults are happening, and here we deeply disagree.)

    Quote Originally Posted by jokor View Post
    Arnenna is often right and are a valuable contributor. And personally i have more pleasure to read his answers.
    I think Arnenna has great contributions in general. I didn't call them out initially.
    Last edited by Echoweaver; Dec 03 2019 at 01:50 PM.
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  2. #177
    Fun Fact:

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  3. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echoweaver View Post
    If you honestly think "jerk" was worse than "entitled," I can't help you.
    I don't need your help with anything. I think both are unnecessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Echoweaver View Post

    Except not? Not even in your example of yourself as a new player?
    Yes, as a new player when 85 cap arrived, I could take my character into erebor raids within 6 months. Couldn't do that now, because after 6 months levelling, I'd have to hang back for another 6 months to get a weapon to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Echoweaver View Post


    I said, "Saying horrible things about the devs." Name-calling is a subset of being insulting.

    I just went through and reread the first few pages, and if you don't see the insults, I really don't know what you're reading.

    A good half of them are directed at OTHER PLAYERS who dare to like the game we have. That's actually worse.

    Perspective. Respect. Try it.
    Try what? Having a debate without name calling? I'm doing that. Now I'm disrespectful for disagreeing with you? You said this . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Echoweaver View Post
    Respect is not calling the devs names
    Quote Originally Posted by Echoweaver View Post

    I think Arnenna has great contributions in general. I didn't call them out initially.
    But my view is "narrow" is how your post started, so I beg to differ. Look, just stop with the name calling please. You go on about how it's disrespectful, yet, you use that tactic in here. Two wrongs, never ever made a right.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Try what? Having a debate without name calling? I'm doing that. Now I'm disrespectful for disagreeing with you?
    I went back up and edited my previous comment after going back to reread things you specifically said. I honestly didn't think any of them were insulting. Forceful, and I don't agree with all of them, but not insulting.

    But I also see you doing the majority of arguing against complaints about tone in general.

    I wasn't in any of my comments on this thread referring directly to you or even thinking of you. You're just the one who responded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    But my view is "narrow" is how your post started, so I beg to differ. Look, just stop with the name calling please. You go on about how it's disrespectful, yet, you use that tactic in here. Two wrongs, never ever made a right.
    I think the argument, made by you but not only you, that newbies are driven off by a late-game grind problem is narrow. I didn't say that this position was insulting. I don't think that describing the argument as a narrow definition of newbies is insulting either in the context of a broader debate on what new players need to enjoy the game.

    There was never a point where I was calling you out.

    So here's the general statement:

    Video game forums have a massive problem with tone. This forum is no exception. Just because it's the usual thing doesn't make it all right. Devs deserve respect. Criticisms can be made with perspective. Ugly behavior doesn't make an argument stronger or make it more likely that the devs will listen.
    Last edited by Echoweaver; Dec 03 2019 at 02:08 PM.
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  5. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echoweaver View Post

    But I also see you doing the majority of arguing against complaints about tone in general.
    Only with you None before that, and only because you called people names. I, like you, don't see that as constructive or necessary. It derails conversation - as we have just seen by our exchange. I'll engage in debate with anyone, regardless of their opinion, voice, tone, frustration, vigour, pleasantness or anything else, but not when it involves calling people names. That goes for devs and players alike.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Only with you None before that, and only because you called people names. I, like you, don't see that as constructive or necessary. It derails conversation - as we have just seen by our exchange. I'll engage in debate with anyone, regardless of their opinion, voice, tone, frustration, vigour, pleasantness or anything else, but not when it involves calling people names. That goes for devs and players alike.
    Hmmm... That's really not what I see going back.

    Here's a spirited defense of tone from earlier:

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Sometimes, people can confuse blunt and direct with mean. While a few do take things all the way as far as "mean", most of us are just blunt and direct. Just because something is negative, doesn't mean it's mean. Customers (that's what we are) will complain about things that they do not like about a product or service they have paid for. That goes for games, food, cars, utilities and about everything you can think of. Suppliers of said products and services, are there to either listen to the feedback and act on it, listen and respond about how they can't act on it, or ignore it. The latter, is usually their downfall.
    As for me calling people names, OK, we *really* disagree on what an insult is. I didn't even specifically call anyone a jerk. I said some people were acting like entitled jerks.

    OTOH, pro-LOTRO players are being called shills and devs are being described as greedy, but you don't call those things out. I think "jerk" is incredibly mild compared to other things said here, and I was deliberately using a mild, kind of lame word. The only thing that "jerk" has that's different is that it's a noun. That fits a very.... well, narrow... definition of insult.
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  7. #182
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    @echoweaver, Just stop. Take this to PM instead. You just started a pointless debate..

  8. #183
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    For those who wanted a newer players perspective, directly from said player . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Brightswitch View Post
    So I'm one of those (relatively) new players who is now being faced with the LI grind and having to make some decisions about it.

    Dol Amroth was the end game when I first began playing. It was common advice to take time to "stop and smell the roses" and I was happy to go through the game at my own pace. But I've been keen to see the new areas, like Dale and the Vales, so on my main character I've been pushing forward at a faster pace than usual and recently got to after-battle Minas Tirith.

    Until a few days ago my Guardian was getting by with maxed-out 3rd age items and quest gear. She was unintentionally over-leveled (10 levels). Even so, it was becoming more obvious that the patchwork gear and LIs weren't going to cut it much longer. I just got started on a 1st age sword, using the scrolls and crystals that I had been saving in my vault. It helped! But when I think about how many more scrolls and crystals this sword (and belt, when I get one) will need... I feel discouraged. I don't particularly want to spend 2+ months doing dailies for Ingold here. I want to keep following the epic quest line and moving to the new areas before too long.

    I looked at the LI "catch-up" box being sold for LP, but decided not to buy it. It's not about the LP itself (I have plenty socked away, despite buying fluff). It just wasn't a purchase I felt good about making. I would rather improve my LI through gameplay - yep, including dailies for Ingold - but with the sheer number of repetitions needed now, it's starting to feel like a chore. The immediate solution to this is, well, to just not do it. "Good enough" LIs will be fine for me. But going forward, I think it's likely that the game will expect me to have "complete" first-age LIs and all new content will be made with that assumption. In other words, my "good enough" LIs will, at some point, no longer be good enough. I'll have to knuckle down to the Minas Tirith grind eventually.

    I think the grind should be retroactively reduced - like the number of kills required for slayer deeds, and the "rebuilding Hytbold" daily quests were, for example. I understand why dailies/repetitions are put in place for end-of-game content. But as newer content comes out, it only makes sense to reduce earlier grinds. I feel there should only be about one "end-game" level of grind in the game at any given time, so newer players don't have disproportionately-large hurdles to clear in order to reach that end-game content themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Great post, and explains the issues from a new player perspective really well. I hope SSG are reading. Do you mind if I quote your post in another thread on the subject?
    Quote Originally Posted by Brightswitch View Post
    Thanks Arnenna - and yes, please feel free to quote it as you like. A few months ago I remember seeing a post speculate about how awful the LI/ ILI system would be for someone coming to it for the first time. As a new(ish) player - and I'm sure I can't be the only one out there - it's definitely caught me wrong-footed and it really does feel burdensome. It would really be a great help if SSG could ease up on the amount of time and/or items needed to start getting a "final" LI up to scratch.
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  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallandil View Post
    Age is far from the problem*

    One of the most popular games (despite being relatively similar in age to LOTRO) is a pixelated block builder that was originally written in java.




    *technical makeup of the game aside, which is more of a side-effect of changing hands multiple times
    Then we do not need an LI revamp.
    We need a pixelated LOTRO in Java.
    Problem with finding and keeping new players solved.
    .

  10. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Hecki View Post
    Then we do not need an LI revamp.
    We need a pixelated LOTRO in Java.
    Problem with finding and keeping new players solved.

    If the game went "pixelated"...would it get rid of the lag? Asking for a friend.

  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narthalion View Post
    If the game went "pixelated"...would it get rid of the lag? Asking for a friend.
    Yep =)
    .

  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecki View Post
    Then we do not need an LI revamp.
    We need a pixelated LOTRO in Java.
    Problem with finding and keeping new players solved.
    Facetious response aside...

    Honestly, I doubt a full revamp will fix the issue. Imbuement didn't the first time around. Just another system to be added to the pile and then left to rust in the stack.

    I mean, some major tweaks need to be made. (Tier reduction, Greater places to find scrolls, Better Time/Reward).

    Quote Originally Posted by Narthalion View Post
    If the game went "pixelated"...would it get rid of the lag? Asking for a friend.
    No. The game I'm mentioning lags more than LOTRO does.

    And yet somehow the lag and low-fi art style manages to capture an audience... (hint: It plays into its niche).

  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallandil View Post
    Facetious response aside...

    Honestly, I doubt a full revamp will fix the issue. Imbuement didn't the first time around. Just another system to be added to the pile and then left to rust in the stack.
    I have heard about an LI revamp in 2020, so I can wait what SSG will doing.
    I mean: The devs here do not have to keep new players. They have to keep angry players. So I think SSG will find a good balance between keeping angry players and relaxed players.
    .

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecki View Post
    I have heard about an LI revamp in 2020, so I can wait what SSG will doing.
    I mean: The devs here do not have to keep new players. They have to keep angry players. So I think SSG will find a good balance between keeping angry players and relaxed players.


    So I think SSG will find a good balance between keeping angry players and relaxed players

  15. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Hecki View Post
    I have heard about an LI revamp in 2020, so I can wait what SSG will doing.

    I used to have as deep a trust in the Devs as you do, my friend.

    Ah yes...those were the days....

    (wipes a tear from his eye as he remembers the good times)

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    I would, except all the ones I know have already left. Roll an alt fresh - no valar, you'll get the picture soon enough.

    You're still talking about doing all the content that we did - over years. Stretched out, and while it was still relevant content. It's not relevant anymore, because . . . it's old content now, old content that new players shouldn't need to hang back in - for moths.
    Why not? If they want to complete School or farm MT daily quests just to get max rep - why you force them not to do that? If they want to complete Pelargir with kinmates - why you force them not to do it? You force people to play only 3 instances in EM and 4 instances in MM - how it can be good? As example: I start Lotro again in april 2015 after I lose my russian account. I never consider himself as donater or P2W player. I'm new player, right? In 1.5-2 years, I have enough LP to buy all content. Of course, I buy quadrpack in Steam, and buy 2 times VIP when I want to complete all anniversary quests and skrimish event. That's all. Never spend money for lootboxes, buy only standard Mordor & Minas Morgul. During EM time, I already have full LI. And I still don't have maxed reputation in MT. I don't play Pelargir every day. I don't complete MT quests for months. I use only school runs and get scrolls in all ways what I already mention above (new instances, RT, skrimish camp, Pelargir). My 2nd character have old Valar to 105 level, and he have 500+ LI right now. If I can do it with minimal amount of efforts, I don't know how other players who play for 10+ years can't do it. Look, it doesn't matter - old content, recent content, new content. If you have someone else, you can go into instances. If you don't have anyone right now, you still can find something to do in game. And yes, you DON'T need full LI to clear landscape content. You even don't need it to clear T3 content, or T5 content.

  17. #192
    If I may add my perspective .... Not a new player but all toons under 100.

    To those who defend the "cash grab" business strategy business of the LOTRO owners - the shrinking numbers are the reality.
    Defending what is causing poor results makes little sense if you care about the game.

    To those who blame the decline of LOTRO to its age - consider the top 4 MMO's: WOW, FFXIV, ESO, GW2. None are
    exactly new and LOTRO was modeled after WOW. All 4 are Far more popular than LOTRO. Sadly LOTRO is barely a blip
    on the radar screen.

    LOTRO is not a Free 2 play game in the practical order. It is a Pay to play game with an optional sub (I discount the
    sub only LS here). Same as the much less expensive, and far more favorably reviewed by objective reviewers, ESO.
    Yet LOTRO often plays like a super grindy F2P game.

    The ILI are an obvious problem to the game. This particular grind may not be a big problem to every individual player personally,
    but it a big factor to the games downhill slide.

    But the ILI grind is not the biggest deterrent to the new or leveling player - please note that I did not say it is not a deterrent.

    The single biggest deterrent is the leveling process. It is Waaaaay too long, Even just getting to 100.

    While some are faster than others, all of the aforementioned MMO's take a fraction of the time to level. I tried 3 of the 4
    and learned about the 4th through other players.

    WOW takes the longest of the 4 but only takes a fraction of the time compared to LOTRO. And the next WOW expansion will revamp
    and further shrink, according to its devs, the leveling time.

    Now the SSG White Knights can counter that LOTRO is all about the journey. But the numbers don't lie. New players are not coming
    to LOTRO in any meaningful numbers. And why should they?

    Look at the road blocks in front of a perspective new or even leveling player. First, there are 130 levels. Let that sink in for a moment.
    Do they even bother with that long of a road in front of them? Why do you think WOW is revamping its system?

    If they do bother, they will eventually notice how long it takes per level. If they have played other games, it won't take long for them to
    hit the exits. They will also start to feel some of the easier early game grinds while reading/hearing about what end game has in store
    for them. I have started and stopped leveling numerous times. The process to end game is much too long.

    Also, the cost to play is absurd. Once money is considered just about any other option will be more appealing. Even the cost of entry to the
    two sub games I listed look inexpensive in the early going.

    Lastly, the devs do read these forums. Look at how quickly they answered questions from people asking about the new ILI catch up
    box. They are well aware of the problem. They simply are moving from one cash grab gimmick to another.

    Speaking as an experienced business owner, this is no way to run a healthy business long term. Looking from the outside, it is reasonable
    to ask if long term is part of the plan.

    For these reasons, among others, my money has been going to other games. LOTRO could be great again with some changes. the foundation
    is there. The story (LOTR) is among the all time greats and LOTRO world building is top notch. Whether these devs are capable and/or willing
    to produce a competitive MMO is another matter entirely.

  18. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by afuturestrader View Post
    If I may add my perspective ....

    Very wise and reasoned words.

    Thank you for posting.

  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by afuturestrader View Post
    To those who blame the decline of LOTRO to its age - consider the top 4 MMO's: WOW, FFXIV, ESO, GW2. None are
    exactly new and LOTRO was modeled after WOW. All 4 are Far more popular than LOTRO. Sadly LOTRO is barely a blip
    on the radar screen.
    To be fair: LOTRO was never an "important game". Many game magazines ignore LOTRO most of the time. Famous magazines doesn't know LOTROs new expension "Minas Morgul", like PC Gamer. Nothing was written about the expension or the release. Nothing was written about new regions like Tales of Anduin, Northern Mirkwood etc.
    LOTROs only publicity is when someone is angry about SSGs shop system and send a article to massivlyop.com...
    .

  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecki View Post
    To be fair: LOTRO was never an "important game". Many game magazines ignore LOTRO most of the time. Famous magazines doesn't know LOTROs new expension "Minas Morgul", like PC Gamer. Nothing was written about the expension or the release. Nothing was written about new regions like Tales of Anduin, Northern Mirkwood etc.
    LOTROs only publicity is when someone is angry about SSGs shop system and send a article to massivlyop.com...
    Yes it was. It went quiet after Helms Deep, when several severe and unpopular design choice changes caused a large drop in the playerbase

    LOTRO regularly won MMORPG awards from online websites. Hell, until 2013, LOTRO was regularly mentioned in PC Gamer even winning "MMO of the Year" in 2011.
    Last edited by Hallandil; Dec 03 2019 at 10:25 PM.

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecki View Post
    To be fair: LOTRO was never an "important game". Many game magazines ignore LOTRO most of the time. Famous magazines doesn't know LOTROs new expension "Minas Morgul", like PC Gamer. Nothing was written about the expension or the release. Nothing was written about new regions like Tales of Anduin, Northern Mirkwood etc.LOTROs only publicity is when someone is angry about SSGs shop system and send a article to massivlyop.com...
    As the previous post pointed out, this is certainly true today (where LotRO is a game with under 10,000 active players trying to squeeze as much blood out of those who inexplicably remain blindly loyal to it as is possible), but it was not always true. The initial Shadows of Angmar launch had articles hyping its development years before release, and Mines of Moria and Siege of Mirkwood both got huge amounts of hype. This was of course back when LotRO was still significantly bigger population-wise than Final Fantasy XIV (the second biggest MMO at the moment, by most accounts) is today. Even F2P launch and RoI got decent amounts of external publicity.

    Heck, even Helm's Deep got publicity in the lead up to it (certainly not as much as Moria or Mirkwood did, for obvious reasons, but still). And then, after that, nothing. Then in the following year or so, over 90% of the population quit (due to natural attrition, you see...after all, it was a 7 year old game by then, and everyone knows that at the 7 year mark over 90% of players just get up and walk away for no reason beyond the game's age). Since then, for some inexplicable reason, the only media attention this game gets is regarding how over-monetized and unpleasantly grindy it is at high levels.

    To the point about the leveling experience being the first turn-off to new players, I feel that the price of entry hits you earlier: the first 30 levels at the very least fly by (I will ignore that if I was sufficiently motivated to do so I could probably level from 1-130 in a month, as most new players probably wouldn't manage that even if they could), but past Lone Lands you have to either buy $100-ish worth of zones to level through, alongside $120-ish worth of old expansions (has it been brought up in the past half hour that this is the only western MMO, and in fact the only game I can think of off-hand, that expects new players to not only buy EVERY previous expansion, but also still charges close to if not the same price for them while not on sale as they cost at launch?), or subscribe, in which case you STILL have to buy every expansion eventually and STILL get stuck with months of grey, effortless Minas Tirith dailies for your LIs. And before anyone jumps in to helpfully inform me, I DO in fact realize that you can grind points (at about $.01 a point market rate and 100 points per hour of relatively efficient grinding, you're basically treating the game as a job at third world wages, but if you can manage a few months of it, you can grind your way to the tedious endgame grind! yay!). I'm sure some people even feel that new players should sit in the 1-15 zones for months farming points so they can buy Minas Tirith to sit there for months grinding scrolls.

    If it doesn't get me boo'ed off the forums, I'd also like to point out that some people were adamantly shouting that the game was fine and all the negativity on the forums was the only thing wrong on the Rift forums, even while Trion (the company behind Rift) was selling off assets to stave off bankruptcy before shutting down. So yeah, just keep on posting that everything's great and anyone who thinks otherwise should shut up and go play something else, it'll make everything better.

    Edit: The forum apparently decided to eat a chunk of my post and undo all my formatting...I think I've fixed most of it?
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  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallandil View Post
    Yes it was. It went quiet after Helms Deep, when several severe and unpopular design choice changes caused a large drop in the playerbase

    LOTRO regularly won MMORPG awards from online websites. Hell, until 2013, LOTRO was regularly mentioned in PC Gamer even winning "MMO of the Year" in 2011.
    Ok, it was important in 2011 and a bit earlier.
    But how you can see the large player drop was long before the 2011's award.

    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecki View Post
    Ok, it was important in 2011 and a bit earlier.
    But how you can see the large player drop was long before the 2011's award.
    The forums don't seem to like your picture (or perhaps my browser doesn't...though I know what it is, so eh). The first major drop in population is typically attributed to the almost year of no content between Mirkwood launch and F2P launch, while F2P was being implemented (and while the devs at the time swore up and down that BIG THINGS are coming, and the game is definately not going free to play). Mirkwood was also considered to be pretty lack-luster at the time, as this was before it was vindicated by a second, better instance cluster that launched more than a year later and every subsequent expansion being progressively worse.

    The point you're responding to still stands though, the game DID get fairly extensive, non-negative press up until Helm's Deep, even when player numbers dropped.
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  24. #199
    So, just another take. I've been playing the game probably for 5-6 years now, have a character up to 120, and don't bother with alts. I play very casually, but I do purchase stuff from the shop fairly regularly, new expansions, speed boosts, mithril coins, and the key for lootboxes (though I've decided not to bother with those going forward). I might even be considered a "whale" because I do visit the shop fairly often, but usually if there's an in-game way of doing something, I'll do it.

    For the first time since I have been playing, though, I am prepared to quit the game due to the LI grind. When I purchase stuff, it's for small conveniences, and for content, but this $50 purchase to get my weapon to a place where I can just progress normally through the story feels wrong. And I really am not prepared to do dailies or dungeons runs or whatever grind system is set up. I just want to progress through the story with a weapon that feels powered for the content I am going through. I didn't bother to imbue my LI until late in the game, and so I have a significant amount of "catching up" to do with the weapon. I just don't feel like doing it, either with a grind or by paying 50 bucks. What I'd prefer is either a way to simply level the weapon by doing normal content -- that is either getting scrolls/crystals as a normal quest reward, or by offering more ways to get those rewards than are currently available. Basically I just want to casually go through the game. The current LI is so underpowered that it's not fun to do plain old questing. So, going for a nice long break and playing some other stuff for awhile. Here's hoping SSG fixes the issue next year, and I can check things out again.
    Last edited by Ortwig; Dec 04 2019 at 01:14 AM.

  25. #200
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    11,625
    Quote Originally Posted by Elmagor View Post
    Why not? If they want to complete School or farm MT daily quests just to get max rep - why you force them not to do that? If they want to complete Pelargir with kinmates - why you force them not to do it? You force people to play only 3 instances in EM and 4 instances in MM - how it can be good? As example: I start Lotro again in april 2015 after I lose my russian account. I never consider himself as donater or P2W player. I'm new player, right? In 1.5-2 years, I have enough LP to buy all content. Of course, I buy quadrpack in Steam, and buy 2 times VIP when I want to complete all anniversary quests and skrimish event. That's all. Never spend money for lootboxes, buy only standard Mordor & Minas Morgul. During EM time, I already have full LI. And I still don't have maxed reputation in MT. I don't play Pelargir every day. I don't complete MT quests for months. I use only school runs and get scrolls in all ways what I already mention above (new instances, RT, skrimish camp, Pelargir). My 2nd character have old Valar to 105 level, and he have 500+ LI right now. If I can do it with minimal amount of efforts, I don't know how other players who play for 10+ years can't do it. Look, it doesn't matter - old content, recent content, new content. If you have someone else, you can go into instances. If you don't have anyone right now, you still can find something to do in game. And yes, you DON'T need full LI to clear landscape content. You even don't need it to clear T3 content, or T5 content.
    Who said anything about removing scrolls from that content that you run? Not me. They need to stay in those places - because Li's are level 100 items, and new players need those places to get their scrolls - because they can't run MM until later. But your solution is all pointing to level cap group stuff, which is not ideal for new players. Until they are level cap, it's not likely they will have others to run that content with - so yes, they will be stuck in MT dailies. And no, they don't need the Li maxed to run that content, but the objective is to get one maxed - by the time they reach level cap, so they can run instances when they get there. You have your opinion on this, and that is your right. A large proportion of players disagree with you on it though. Even SSG know, the current model isn't working well for players. If it were - a buy around wouldn't even exist. The fact that one has been created, rather than working to release the promised revamp, is getting under a lot of skin. The revamp has been held off so work already put in by players doesn't get undermined, yet, they took time to create a store item that essentially - does exactly that. Yup, players are peeved about it, and rightly so.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Dec 04 2019 at 02:30 AM.
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