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  1. #1
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    [Close] Time to merge some servers for the sake of your players

    Hello,

    Lotro is decreasing in terms of population on some server. Most of them are close to be "empty" server (less than 300 people in evening) and they should cost too much what they made gain to you. Logging data are easily readable on external website (sorry i don't remember its name).

    I can predict a big issue with people leaving their main server or stop the game because they can't afford price for transfert when you 'll reactivate this feature. You should have only 2 european server ( laurelin + evernight) and shut down the other because they aren't relevant anymore. Same result for american and legendary servers.

    In this way you could concentrate your work and your financial resources on less server which will improve the quality of your service you give to us and your profitability. Customer should be happy to play on strong and reliable servers with plenty of people with many activities and with more interaction between them. And they would spend their money more than usual.

    Healthy for both part. Imo.

    Thanks for reading me.
    Last edited by jokor; Dec 31 2019 at 12:28 PM.

  2. #2
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by jokor View Post
    Hello,

    Lotro is decreasing in terms of population on some server. Most of them are close to be "empty" server (less than 300 people in evening) and they should cost too much what they made gain to you. Logging data are easily readable on external website (sorry i don't remember its name).

    I can predict a big issue with people leaving their main server or stop the game because they can't afford price for transfert when you 'll reactivate this feature. You should have only 2 european server ( laurelin + evernight) and shut down the other because they aren't relevant anymore. Same result for american and legendary servers.

    In this way you could concentrate your work and your financial resources on less server which will improve the quality of your service you give to us and your profitability. Customer should be happy to play on strong and reliable servers with plenty of people with many activities and with more interaction between them. And they would spend their money more than usual.

    Healthy for both part. Imo.

    Thanks for reading me.
    So You're saying all German and French speaking European players should be forced to read and speak English on only 2 remaining servers ??? So what if they can not do that ??? If they can not read quests or other menues ???

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Funk View Post
    So You're saying all German and French speaking European players should be forced to read and speak English on only 2 remaining servers ??? So what if they can not do that ??? If they can not read quests or other menues ???
    I never said it. SSG should keep foreigner translate imo. Please read carefully next time.

    Let me say you in another game there is no problem with it. All community coexist and speak their own language. No problem here.

    Just another question, how do the russian swedish and all other ?

  4. #4
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    Some of the United States servers are nicely populated now. A few are a bit too uncrowded, perhaps.

    A merger of the five regular servers into one or even two would jam us in like sardines in a can, making life more unpleasant for many of us and doubtlessly increasing lag which is already horrendous. Many players and kinships would lose cherished names. Many people left after prior mergers - if enough leave a new set of mergers would cripple the game.

    For the European servers, there are the obvious language issues. Why force the people on two German servers and one French server into the two English servers as you propose?

    Merging Anor and Ithil will cause many problems but might make more sense. They never did want two legendary servers but created Ithil because of ...legendary … delays in queueing for Anor.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokor View Post
    I never said it. SSG should keep foreigner translate imo. Please read carefully next time.
    actually, yes you did. if you did not directly say it, you most assuredly implied it.

    there is no need to merge servers again.
    The Lover®: So suave. So cool. So debonair. So smooth.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmark101 View Post
    actually, yes you did. if you did not directly say it, you most assuredly implied it.

    there is no need to merge servers again.
    No i didn't. You did it because that's you thought you understood. And as i said the is no problem with different language until ssg keep the translate.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jokor View Post
    Hello,

    Lotro is decreasing in terms of population on some server. Most of them are close to be "empty" server (less than 300 people in evening) and they should cost too much what they made gain to you. Logging data are easily readable on external website (sorry i don't remember its name).

    I can predict a big issue with people leaving their main server or stop the game because they can't afford price for transfert when you 'll reactivate this feature. You should have only 2 european server ( laurelin + evernight) and shut down the other because they aren't relevant anymore. Same result for american and legendary servers.

    In this way you could concentrate your work and your financial resources on less server which will improve the quality of your service you give to us and your profitability. Customer should be happy to play on strong and reliable servers with plenty of people with many activities and with more interaction between them. And they would spend their money more than usual.

    Healthy for both part. Imo.

    Thanks for reading me.
    No thanks, for many reasons but even if it was a good idea (it isn't) just after releasing MM and the increase in players is a really bad time.
    Wal's Army on Evernight - Walred (Champ), Walmur (RK), Walbert-2 (Cappy), Walori (Guard), Walrandir (LM), Walora (Warden), Walmo (Burg)

  8. #8
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    Even if what the game says can be translated into French and German 100% of the time on a mixed language server - which I am not sure is the case - you still have the situation that players will have to deal with other players without being able to speak their language a *lot* more than is the case now. Not just seeing a huge increase in incomprehensible chat (which rightly or wrongly does tend to bother many people) but being in groups with people you cannot communicate with.

    And if the English speakers and French speakers and German speakers aren't tossed in to groups together what is the *point* of a merger?

  9. #9
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by jokor View Post
    I never said it. SSG should keep foreigner translate imo. Please read carefully next time.

    Let me say you in another game there is no problem with it. All community coexist and speak their own language. No problem here.
    I did read and just re-read.

    You did say:

    Quote Originally Posted by jokor View Post
    You should have only 2 european server ( laurelin + evernight) and shut down the other because they aren't relevant anymore.
    You do realize that German and French Servers are considered European servers right ??? As far as I know the country of France and Germany are not located in US. Maybe I'm wrong ???

    They are even labeled as EU Servers.

    Belegaer [EU-DE-RP]
    Sirannon [FR]
    Gwaihir [EU-DE]

    Acctually French server have no EU tag, as I guess it's also now for people from Canada that have French as main language. HOWEVER even the French server is still considered European by the system, as we can transfer to it only from other European servers, not from US servers.

    They were all even located on European physical servers back in the days with Codemaster before WB/Turbine cancelled the deal with Codemasters and changed all servers to be physically only located in US. Allowing us to move our European Codemaster LoTRO accounts over.

    So basically we already only have:

    1 European English speaking RP server.
    1 European English speaking NON RP server.
    1 European German speaking RP server.
    1 European German speaking NON RP server.
    1 French speaking non RP server. Basically being European (as I explained above) even if no [EU] label on it.

    By Your reply I now understand that You did not mean to include the French and German servers to be merged, but Your original post had no such distinction. In that it sounded as You would merge all Euorpean servers into only 2 remaining. Still which one would You remove or merge with which other server ??? They are all different due to language and/or RP label. You want to merge the German non RP server with the German RP Server ???

    There is no European server merge possible. Not if want them to stay language different and RP vs non RP.

    On the US side I have no idea, as I rarely play on any of them anymore.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jokor View Post
    Hello,

    Lotro is decreasing in terms of population on some server. Most of them are close to be "empty" server (less than 300 people in evening) and they should cost too much what they made gain to you. Logging data are easily readable on external website (sorry i don't remember its name).

    I can predict a big issue with people leaving their main server or stop the game because they can't afford price for transfert when you 'll reactivate this feature. You should have only 2 european server ( laurelin + evernight) and shut down the other because they aren't relevant anymore. Same result for american and legendary servers.

    In this way you could concentrate your work and your financial resources on less server which will improve the quality of your service you give to us and your profitability. Customer should be happy to play on strong and reliable servers with plenty of people with many activities and with more interaction between them. And they would spend their money more than usual.

    Healthy for both part. Imo.

    Thanks for reading me.
    No no no.

  11. #11
    If the Steam charts are to be believed, we've reached record low player population.




    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  12. #12
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    Lord.Funk - in fairness he was saying that French and German players on Evernight and Laurelin would still be able to get French and German language quests, item descriptions and the like. He knew quite well that he was proposing to merge servers with three languages together. Good sarcasm though.


    The Steam statistics are essentially irrelevant in the absence of information as to (1) what percentage of LOTRO players actually played on Steam over the periods in question and (2) what percentage tend to play flagged as anonymous.

    A drop in numbers could result from fewer of us playing on steam. I know more than a few people have dropped steam because programs running in the background can make lag worse.

    A drop in numbers could result from more people being anonymous for some reason.

    Are those numbers for how many people logged in to any of the game's servers at any time during a day or week or month? Or how many were on at a particular time of day? Or maybe just for one server not the whole game. Those numbers are insanely low for the entire game unless very few players use steam - which is rather part of my point as to their meaningfulness.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post
    If the Steam charts are to be believed, we've reached record low player population.




    Peak players it up a bit though and it was just last weekend with the 1300 players. It'll go up a bit after it averages out in 30 days because of the expansion. Not like it matters, as long as the LOTRO store keeps pulling in whales it'll never go under. There are several MMOs on steam that have less than 200 players, lol.

    I've been tracking US data for a bit on how many people are on the 5 US servers for a few days at different times during the day, generally, I track at 6-7p central time because that's generally my "prime time". I can give everyone the data if people are actually interested in the population. The average is ~3000 players on all 5 US servers (obviously not counting alts and boxers, since I'm just using the community tab numbers). During the weekend it can go up to 4000 concurrent players. Honestly, the expansion didn't seem to draw many people in, the numbers haven't really changed pre and post MM.

    Quote Originally Posted by istvana View Post
    (2) what percentage tend to play flagged as anonymous..
    For my above data, I used a sample size of about 400 players I took over the course of a few days on two servers to estimate that about 20% of a given world population is marked anonymous. I did this by taking different names of people in chat and right-clicking them to see if they were anonymous. Out of 400 players almost 80 of them in both samples were anonymous, so I went with 20%. It has about a 5% margin of error if my assume population sizes are close to correct.
    Last edited by Evodius; Nov 27 2019 at 03:55 PM.

  14. #14
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post
    If the Steam charts are to be believed, we've reached record low player population.




    Yes, as others have said, steam is only steam. I'm a bit surprised that anyone bothers to go the steam route to even play LoTRO. It's a hassle to even get the launcher to load without having to load all the start up images etc each time. You need to change the deskstop shortcut link to thye newer client log-in exe which is easy on regular, but more hassle via steam.

    Still no surprise to me if we are at an all time low. It kind of figures with many of the decisions made and the state the game is in at the moment.

    I wish it was not so, that they game would flourish and be in a good technical state with no bugs, no skill delays and lag, an expansion that felt complete, less focus on lootboxes for embers, motes and figments (by for example having a weekly end-game quest to barter sigils for 1.000 embers, like we had in Skarhald) or better no lootboxes at all (instead we now have a sale on lootbox key bundle), less focus on store items to progess LI's or VXP (instead we now have a sale on li progression stuff), an awesome crafting update, rep and barter currency for the new regions with things worth bartering for (alliance rep has absolutely nothing, zero, nada and white company more or less re-skinned cloaks and banners, apart from a map, one pet, one feet wrap, one hand wrap, and one pair of leggings), that we had no currency caps etc, but it is not so.

    The only interesting thing with steam charts is that I don't think it matters who toggles anonymous in-game or not, as steam can simply collect data on who is playing the game at the moment anyway. Still I assume alot less play LoTRO via Steam than via the regular download. I could be wrong of course.

  15. #15
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    What am I reading??? What are these replies???

    1. Playing on English Servers does not mean that the Quests/Items/Game is in English, too.

    2. There is a way to create German-only or French-only chats for people to use if they can't speak English.

    SSG should merge the remaining Servers (as I've requested a couple of times). The game is beyond dying at this point.

    The Server Laggs are ridicolous, they really need to fix it some way. It has become worse and worse and SSG is ignoring it as usual. But when I think about it ... Character/Shared Storage Transfers have been disabled for 2 months now and SSG hasn't been able to repair it.

  16. #16
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Snobs View Post
    ...SSG should merge the remaining Servers (as I've requested a couple of times). The game is beyond dying at this point.

    The Server Laggs are ridicolous, they really need to fix it some way. It has become worse and worse and SSG is ignoring it as usual. But when I think about it ... Character/Shared Storage Transfers have been disabled for 2 months now and SSG hasn't been able to repair it...
    How would cramping more players into the same servers and regions ease up on lag ??? It would even add the loading of all peoples cosmetics skins and LI stats etc as You come into the same area, acctually making the delays and freezes worse. It would make all so called "layers" have more players in them, fill up, create more layers and not help anything at all.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Funk View Post
    How would cramping more players into the same servers and regions ease up on lag ??? It would even add the loading of all peoples cosmetics skins and LI stats etc as You come into the same area, acctually making the delays and freezes worse. It would make all so called "layers" have more players in them, fill up, create more layers and not help anything at all.
    Cosmetic Skins and LI Stats do not have an impact on server lag. Obviously, by merging the remaining servers, they need to put some work into upgrading the remaining 1 - 2 servers. All I'm saying is that it cannot stay this way. The server lags have become worse and worse, more and more players quit and SSG doesn't react to anything.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snobs View Post
    Cosmetic Skins and LI Stats do not have an impact on server lag. Obviously, by merging the remaining servers, they need to put some work into upgrading the remaining 1 - 2 servers. All I'm saying is that it cannot stay this way. The server lags have become worse and worse, more and more players quit and SSG doesn't react to anything.
    "Lag" is a general term. Moving into an area and getting a delay or freeze as all player data, including skins and LI stats etc loads, is also lag. Same as loading a new region as You enter it is a type of "lag". There are different types of "lag", all contributing to affecting gaming performance at the users end. Adding to those things does not decrease "lag" or delays at the users end, in fact it increases it instead.

  19. #19
    I usually alternate between for characters, each in a different zone. I see folks around me quite a bit and will often group up with them when doing an area. I also have never used steam, so have never been included in their numbers. Is it raiding that is underpopulated? If that is the issue (and it isn't just that reputations make players not already known to them desirable), they could make the fellowship instances cross server. But please don't do another server merge.
    Casual R Us - Garatha

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snobs View Post
    SSG should merge the remaining Servers (as I've requested a couple of times). The game is beyond dying at this point.
    MMORPGs, in general, are on the downfall. All MMORPGs are destined to die because attrition is the standard state.

    Would it freak you out if I told you that I play two other MMOs that have a smaller population than LOTRO and one might even be bigger than LOTRO content-wise? Lol

  21. #21
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    No merge, please. Belegear is full as hell in the evenings so you can barely play because it's full of lags.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokor View Post
    Hello,

    Lotro is decreasing in terms of population on some server. Most of them are close to be "empty" server (less than 300 people in evening) and they should cost too much what they made gain to you. Logging data are easily readable on external website (sorry i don't remember its name).

    The reason for declining population is simple. Poor infrastructure (Reduced Awareness/lag) and minimal staffing (questionable Quality Control/Help/bugs).

    Most of the bugs, especially after an update or expansion, are entirely avoidable IF the staff actually take the time to test out the new content BEFORE it is released. How many bugs have you come across that are glaringly obvious to anyone actually playing the game, but the content is still released anyway? Not only is that a bad business practice but it shows a lack of respect for the players. Players who pay a substantial amount of money for an expansion DO NOT want to be presented with a "beta (alpha?) version" upon purchase.

    As for infrastructure, frequently occurring downtime lasting 4+ hrs don't impress a lotta ppl. Reduced Awareness and most lag is due to insufficiently allotted processing power and overworked or out-dated servers, and to date it is still almost an all-day occurrence since the release of Minas Morgul 3 weeks ago, which makes game-play in the new expansion areas difficult or pretty much unplayable for many ppl.



    Conditions are not gonna improve unless LOTRO starts showing some respect for it's members.
    "Life is a pretty boring game, but at least it has good graphics"

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaiandrial View Post
    Most of the bugs, especially after an update or expansion, are entirely avoidable IF the staff actually take the time to test out the new content BEFORE it is released. How many bugs have you come across that are glaringly obvious to anyone actually playing the game, but the content is still released anyway? Not only is that a bad business practice but it shows a lack of respect for the players. Players who pay a substantial amount of money for an expansion DO NOT want to be presented with a "beta (alpha?) version" upon purchase.
    As someone involved in game development, this is a double-edged sword. Yes, we get that people want everything polished and as bug-free as possible, but that's very hard in reality with limited time and resources, something that the higher-ups are always pushing on us to get stuff out the door. On top of that, there's another part of the player base that would scream that development is taking too long so you can never please everyone. At the end of the day, you just have to do your best to try and balance the two and it's a very, very complicated tightrope. Even if you get it perfect, it really bums you out when people scream at you over a product you've worked on for MONTHS to be thrown back in your face because of unforeseen bugs or complications.

    In my field, we've tested a ton of content and it ALWAYS seems to be the case that a bunch of random bugs pop up that never came up during testing. It's just really disheartening is all, being a developer is hard psychologically.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snobs View Post
    What am I reading??? What are these replies???

    1. Playing on English Servers does not mean that the Quests/Items/Game is in English, too.

    2. There is a way to create German-only or French-only chats for people to use if they can't speak English.
    ....
    That's right. But you miss out a few things.

    Player names are not translated automatically. English names do not fit on DE servers. German names do not fit on EN servers. That would probably be less of a problem if players were using real names instead of "Imthebiggest"-names.

    Currently, I can assume that most of the players understand me in instances and raids on the DE servers. On EU servers, many players do not understand me.

    If a lot of the chat is in English, it's like work for me - but I play Lotro for relaxation and therefore I prefer DE servers.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evodius View Post
    As someone involved in game development, this is a double-edged sword. Yes, we get that people want everything polished and as bug-free as possible, but that's very hard in reality with limited time and resources, something that the higher-ups are always pushing on us to get stuff out the door. On top of that, there's another part of the player base that would scream that development is taking too long so you can never please everyone. At the end of the day, you just have to do your best to try and balance the two and it's a very, very complicated tightrope. Even if you get it perfect, it really bums you out when people scream at you over a product you've worked on for MONTHS to be thrown back in your face because of unforeseen bugs or complications.

    In my field, we've tested a ton of content and it ALWAYS seems to be the case that a bunch of random bugs pop up that never came up during testing. It's just really disheartening is all, being a developer is hard psychologically.
    All very good points, except that in this case alot of the lacking features or even faulty issues, as well as acctual bugs were reported during BR Beta #1, #2 and #3 and stil made it to live.

    Yes I totally understand and have empathy for the devs, coders, artists, world-builder etc, due to this reason in particular that You mention (below).

    Quote Originally Posted by Evodius View Post
    ...but that's very hard in reality with limited time and resources, something that the higher-ups are always pushing on us to get stuff out the door...
    It doesn't matter that it is the higher-ups that are responsible, since SSG/Daybreak are companies, the responsibility is still the company's as an entity. I tend to never blame the people on the "floor", the little man/woman/(insert gender identity) working under preassure and limited resources, often overworked, putting in extra hours. I try not to get personal and put any personal blame. The main responsibility always lies with management no matter what (I mean as a group who makes these decisions, whoever they might be as individuals is irrelevant) They have responsibility for everyone under them in the companys hierarchy. In essence it's the companys fault.

    I often point that out, that I have the outmost respect and admiration for the devs, coders, artists, world-builders etc in this game. That does not mean I can not see faults and have things I as a customer dislike. Decisions made and implemented that I think goes against improving the player/customer experince as a whole.

    If for example I get a a fulty product, say a car or refrigerator, or it runs badly, on top of that lacking or even added features that puts hinderance to me as a custome to enjoy it, who am I to blame or be upset towards if not the company ??? Yes of course myself as well to a certain point for making a stupid decision and purchase, but also the company/seller who sold me the product or service. That is just how it is as they got my money for the thing I bought. You know the contract between a customer/buyer and the seller, sealed with a payment.
    Last edited by Lord.Funk; Nov 27 2019 at 07:32 PM.

 

 
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