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  1. #1
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    Reduction in embers/motes to 10,000 to adjust for bug and "exploits"

    Sorry but I am a bit confused here.

    I know that you can have embers or motes or figments up to 10,000 on each server. You can also have skirmish marks on each server and many other currencies on each server and get more far in excess of any weekly limits by getting them on different servers.

    I don't recall *ever* seeing anything from Turbine or SSG saying that any of these currencies were intended to be aggregated on a game-wide basis.

    Very few things are looked at on a game-wide basis - in fact the only thing that comes to mind is LOTRO points.


    This post is *not* intended to quarrel with anything Cordovan said. I believe firmly in enforcing the rules and punishing exploits as harshly as appropriate. But can someone point me towards an official statement as to what currencies a player can legitimately have on each server up to that server's limits and what currencies a player cannot legitimately have more than a specified total of on all servers combined? So that I know what the rules are and can follow them.

    I consider myself highly lawful-good. I follow rules. But when I had 10,000 embers on server X and then a newish character got 100 embers on server Y it never even crossed my mind that this was an exploit since this is simply the way so many currencies seem to work, Each server independent of the others.

  2. #2
    If I understood correctly, this you are saying is not the exploit.

    The exploit is that some people were transfering embers/motes/figments from 1 server to other server, and that exceeded the cap.

    Example, you have 10k embers in server A and 10k embers in server B. If you transfer storage of server B to server A, you also transfer the 10k embers. Then you would have 20k embers in server A. There was a screenshot shared in my thread about embers of a person with more than 100k embers. This is the exploit, having in one single server more embers/motes/figments than the cap.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by istvana View Post
    Sorry but I am a bit confused here.

    I know that you can have embers or motes or figments up to 10,000 on each server. You can also have skirmish marks on each server and many other currencies on each server and get more far in excess of any weekly limits by getting them on different servers.

    I don't recall *ever* seeing anything from Turbine or SSG saying that any of these currencies were intended to be aggregated on a game-wide basis.

    Very few things are looked at on a game-wide basis - in fact the only thing that comes to mind is LOTRO points.


    This post is *not* intended to quarrel with anything Cordovan said. I believe firmly in enforcing the rules and punishing exploits as harshly as appropriate. But can someone point me towards an official statement as to what currencies a player can legitimately have on each server up to that server's limits and what currencies a player cannot legitimately have more than a specified total of on all servers combined? So that I know what the rules are and can follow them.

    I consider myself highly lawful-good. I follow rules. But when I had 10,000 embers on server X and then a newish character got 100 embers on server Y it never even crossed my mind that this was an exploit since this is simply the way so many currencies seem to work, Each server independent of the others.
    The difference between marks/medallions and other currencies is that . . . . they are not capped, and never were. Capped means capped, and it would be pretty obvious to me, that the minute my cap goes over, something is not working as it should.

    Capped currencies are relatively new - since Mordor, apart from Comms in PvMP.

    It has been deemed as unintentional and a fix has been put in place to correct it, with enough grace time for you to be able to expend your over cap. Happy spending.
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  4. #4
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    Thanks. Having over 10,000 on a server after transferring from another server does indeed strike me as an obvious bug.

    Having e.g. 5,000 on each of the 5 U.S. servers never struck me as anything other than "working as intended" but now that SSG has spoken I understand that this is not what was intended. I have no quarrel with this, or with the removal of excess currency as Cordovan stated. If this is the only currency where this is an issue I will continue to not worry about inter-server totals and be concerned only with intra-server totals on all other currencies.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by istvana View Post
    Thanks. Having over 10,000 on a server after transferring from another server does indeed strike me as an obvious bug.

    Having e.g. 5,000 on each of the 5 U.S. servers never struck me as anything other than "working as intended" but now that SSG has spoken I understand that this is not what was intended. I have no quarrel with this, or with the removal of excess currency as Cordovan stated. If this is the only currency where this is an issue I will continue to not worry about inter-server totals and be concerned only with intra-server totals on all other currencies.
    If you have 10K on server 1 and 10K on server 2 it wasn't exploit. If you transfer 10K to other server and get 20K, it's wasn't exploit too. It's just bug (from that what I understand from rules. Needs confirmaton from blue names). But IF you don't make ticket about such bug, never tell developers about it and start using them, that make bug into exploit. Because you use techincal bug to get advantage against other players.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by istvana View Post
    Thanks. Having over 10,000 on a server after transferring from another server does indeed strike me as an obvious bug.

    Having e.g. 5,000 on each of the 5 U.S. servers never struck me as anything other than "working as intended" but now that SSG has spoken I understand that this is not what was intended. I have no quarrel with this, or with the removal of excess currency as Cordovan stated. If this is the only currency where this is an issue I will continue to not worry about inter-server totals and be concerned only with intra-server totals on all other currencies.
    Having 5k on each server is working as intended and you won’t lose any of your embers that way. It is when the total is exceeded on a single server that you would lose some e.g. if you had 15k on Laurelin and 5k on each of the others, your Laurelin total would go down to 15k and you would keep all the rest. It stops people being able to a) earn more than the weekly limits and b) be able to gear up to the 130 max on Minas Morgul launch day. Both reasons are basically to stop cheating.

    I assume the same is true of motes and figments if they are over the cap, but this would be less of an issue as you can’t buy endgame gear with them.
    Last edited by TheArtilleryman; Oct 11 2019 at 02:18 AM.

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  7. #7
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    Using transfers to accumulate way over 10k on single server is exploiting a bug. Having 10k per server is OK. There is a problem, however.
    If I play on a single server, I can stash 10k via transfers on each server, and then, when new content comes out, I can spend embers on my server, and then move more in from other servers as needed. Which effectively makes my wallet cap 10k x number of available servers.

    And by Cordovan's post in other thread, I suppose this is the reason why transfers are now closed.

    I suspect we may have seen the last of server transfers on capped currency.

  8. #8
    Personally, I'd like to see the currency transfer separated form the storage transfer. Even better if there was a way to set what currency to transfer and in what amount, but I will be content with a simple separation. Make currency transfer paid if you want. Or free only if transferred along with caracter transfer.

  9. #9
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    If it wasn't for transfers then each of the five region servers that you can access would have a 10k cap in place. If you earned that 10k on each server that would be fine. But if you are regularly sending resources around these five servers you'll have likely pooled the 50k together on one server, maybe not your main either. We are told you can spend your over capped embers etc. but it could be that these resources are stuck on a server you may not have the rep or level to spend them. Some will have sent all excess embers frequently to another server and racked up a load. They will loose all but 10k on that server, it will likely be available at some point to send back to where it's needed later. So potentially there'll be 20k available to spend in Minas Morgul. Some might have sent 10k or more batches to all the other 4 servers and they will end up with a 10k total, still racking up 50 k over the 5 servers, ready to transfer back as and when required/able but they will have all the other resource out of commission 'til transfers are back on..

    But even 50k doesn't get you fully suited and booted, just ahead of the game. Having 200k+ would be in the realms of a key buying addiction.

    On the bright side if your excess of embers is on an alt server you will eventually get to transfer 10k back once you start spending at 130. If you have earned 10k on different servers and inadvertently have them pooled together it looks like you will loose out, but there is time to earn another 10k on each before the release.

    So people who never transfer will be able to take 10k into MM, others with resources back on their main server also 10k, some will take 20k with a single transfer back and "lucky" ones 50k with four transfers back. Assuming that just one main server is actually played.

    It maybe that SSG could investigate further into the presence of embers on a server where there is no ability to earn them and wipe the totals completely. But you wouldn't want them to wipe legitimate totals. And it's more difficult with the motes and figments as they can be earned in a variety of ways and levels.

    But there is plenty of time to earn 10k embers before patch day and clear some space for quest gear to breakdown at 130. And there will be a key sale around the thankstaking holiday.

    This is how I am reading it anyway.
    If your intellect can't fathom my reasoning it's me who's unreasonable?

  10. #10
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    Here's a thought: presumably all gear that currently disenchants into embers will convert to gear that disenchants into motes... So is there any point in hoarding embers gear? Won't it just turn into motes gear after launch day?

    Just ruminating... I don't think it is a point anybody has made yet...

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  11. #11
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArtilleryman View Post
    Here's a thought: presumably all gear that currently disenchants into embers will convert to gear that disenchants into motes... So is there any point in hoarding embers gear? Won't it just turn into motes gear after launch day?

    Just ruminating... I don't think it is a point anybody has made yet...
    Yes, that has been my guess all along too. As I'm more or less capped on Embers each week (just have to waste some every week to make space for more from quests), but not capped on Motes and thought Embers would convert to motes with Minas Morgul I have kept LvL 120 Embers gear pieces, as I thought my capped Embers would become capped Motes, so I didn't want to risk losing out because my Motes would become capped after Minas Morgul (or so I thought). Now that will not be the case, but still hanging on to that 120 gear and wait to turn it into Motes after MM, as that is the only currency that is not capped for me. Like I said like playing some Tetris game within the game. These caps are very annoying and an inconvenience for sure. Not exactly enhancing the player experience. As I've said in other threads, at least Motes and Figments caps should be removed or made alot higher, as they are not even "end-game" currencies.

  12. #12
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    But if they are going to automatically convert Embers into Motes at the release of Minas Morgul, they had better let the total of Motes to go above 10k with no more accumulation until brought below 10k. If something is done, not by me, I should not lose anything because of their actions.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymore View Post
    But if they are going to automatically convert Embers into Motes at the release of Minas Morgul, they had better let the total of Motes to go above 10k with no more accumulation until brought below 10k. If something is done, not by me, I should not lose anything because of their actions.
    I think that that's part of the point of Cordovan's post. Your Motes & Figment's will NOT accumulate to over 10k, so spend either your Motes or your Embers.

  14. #14
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    Have they even said that they would convert to begin with?
    It is logical, in view of the times in which we live. But to be logical is not to be right, and nothing on God's earth could ever make it right!
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymore View Post
    Have they even said that they would convert to begin with?
    No. In fact I'm fairly sure Cordovan answered this question in his last stream (though he was getting embers and motes mixed up/reversed). Motes and Embers amounts will stay as they are on release of expansion (with the exception of the hard cap thing).

    What I understand will happen is your embers and motes stay the same (hard cap excepted). Gear, etc. in the new expansion will be bartered for embers and disenchant into embers. Gear which is bartered for embers currently will be bartered for motes and anything which currently disenchants into embers will disenchant into motes. Current ember rewards for quests, etc. will also convert to motes, I guess. (Not sure this actually came up.)

    Hence the introduction of the hard cap to avoid players being able to barter for loads of new gear on release of the expansion. This is also why they were capped in the first place (pretty sure this was explained when they were introduced).
    Last edited by Altair6; Oct 12 2019 at 07:27 AM.

  16. #16
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    Are they making Character only figs/motes/embers? Wouldn't that work? How would one grind for Anvil gear let's say being embers and they make this change? Motes for Anvil gear?
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  17. #17
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    Nothing about making those currencies character-bound so I am pretty sure they remain shared.
    And yes, Anvil gear will be going for motes after expac release.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palenen View Post
    Are they making Character only figs/motes/embers? Wouldn't that work? How would one grind for Anvil gear let's say being embers and they make this change? Motes for Anvil gear?
    If they turn them from account wide to character bound, they can create even more enrage and kill all resource instances from both EM and Vales of Anduin.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Haltbeorn View Post
    I think that that's part of the point of Cordovan's post. Your Motes & Figment's will NOT accumulate to over 10k, so spend either your Motes or your Embers.
    This would be much easier if there were things available for embers that were worth bartering for. I suspect the root of this issue likely parallels the issue with the reputation items available in the skirmish camps a few years back. People were looking at millions of Marks and hundreds of thousands of Medallions in their wallet with nothing really worth bartering for.

    Someone realized they could earn Turbine Points (at the time) by bartering for reputation items and using them with other characters. Doing this repeatedly rewarded more Turbine Points. Creating alts just for this purpose and then deleting them to create another earned even more.

    Necessity is the mother of invention, they say. If there were worthwhile things to barter for, maybe there would be less of an incentive to finagle worth from a largely worthless currency (in its present state).

    You could earn 3 Scrolls of Empowerment spending about 7 minutes doing the Minas Tirith dailies when that content was at level cap. Why can't we spend 10,000 Embers to barter for just one?


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkrist View Post
    You could earn 3 Scrolls of Empowerment spending about 7 minutes doing the Minas Tirith dailies when that content was at level cap. Why can't we spend 10,000 Embers to barter for just one?
    This is such a logical idea I don't understand why it hasn't been done. 10,000 is a bit steep though, I'd rather see them for 1 or 2k each.

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  21. #21
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    The equivalent of a Scroll in game currency terms is 10 Mithril Coins.
    If you can buy previous Festival Mount for 70 MC, then a Scroll is 1/7th the cost.
    Motes or Embers is 1:1 with Figments (one way only).
    The vast majority of (modern) Figment Mounts are 7,500 Figments.
    70 MC =7,500 Figments or about 107 Figments per MC.
    Since 1 Ember (or Mote) = 1 Figment, then a 10 MC Scroll should cost 1,070 Embers (or Motes). Let's round to 1,100.

    There is your cost for a Scroll in terms of Embers or Motes.
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  22. #22
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    I'm not sure why people are trying to work out how many embers a scroll should cost, by comparing other items at the ember/mote/figment barter.

    We only need . . . one horse, if we actually like it
    We only need . . . 16 -20 essences
    We only need . . . cosmetics, if we actually like them

    We need 240 empos per LI

    Perspective!

    They could put scrolls at 100 embers per pop, and it still won't make a decent dent.
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    I'm not sure why people are trying to work out how many embers a scroll should cost, by comparing other items at the ember/mote/figment barter

    We need 240 empos per LI

    Perspective!

    ...They could put scrolls at 100 embers per pop, and it still won't make a decent dent.
    Well... that might be a bit of a reach.

    Each week, I have 3 characters do the following:

    1. Turn in the 25 Longbeard coins for 500 Embers: 500 embers x 3 characters = 1500

    2. Turn in the 75 Gulmark tokens for 500 embers: 500 embers x 3 characters = 1500

    3. Turn in the 3 weekly quests in Hultvis: 750 embers x 3 quests x 3 characters = 750 x 3 x 3 = 6750

    1500 + 1500 + 6750 = 9,750 Embers, so just under 10k

    The amount of time I spend on doing this is:

    1. 5 minutes each (usually less) in Oinsbridge and Glimmerdeep once per week: 10 minutes x 3 characters = 30 minutes
    2. The quests from the dailies just about cover the Gulmark cost, so we'll cover that below...
    3. We'll round each daily to 10 minutes (usually its less for me): 10 minutes x 3 quests x 3 characters x 2 days = 10 x 3 x 3 x 2 = 180 minutes

    30 minutes + 180 minutes = 210 minutes = 3.5 hours per week for 9,750 embers.

    At 100 embers per scroll, you would be earning 97.5 scrolls per 210 minutes, or 1 scroll every 2.15 minutes. At this rate it would take you 516 minutes, or 8.6 hours to fully scroll up an LI.

    The fact that 'endgame items' like Scrolls of Empowerment and Star-lit crystals are not available for barter with the 'endgame currency', that being Embers, is kind of crazy. Certainly far more crazy than people trying to find ways to make their Embers worth something.


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  24. #24
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    In the course of this year, if one was capping on embers, it actually made sense to buy those 3500 ember blue coffers and vault them.
    Reason: if you bought such coffer when it yielded ilvl 370 gear and stashed it, it would give you 376 gear (or 380 gear) after respective updates. So unless you got yourself geared via instances/raids, you could prep yourself for those updates. You could also spend embers on essences and decon them to malleables - until you got all T4 essences.

    You could dump embers to figments and get all those cosmetics if that's your thing.
    If you have lower level alts, you could convert your embers to motes to help them along. I.e. 'of the Abyss' and 'of the Wyrm' at 1750 motes each can get them a decent boost at 115.
    But of course, the insane ILI grind caused a lot of us to shelve out alts permanently.

 

 

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