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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narthalion View Post
    Well said. So frustrating for so many.
    Yes, anyone knowing anything on how decisions of future investements is made or what affects them, knows that constanly changing rules is never good. Stability is good, uncertainty is not good, if wanting to invest in something long term. Too much turmoil is never good. It's our time and money that we are investing long-term. Then we do not want constantly changing rules and systems.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Funk View Post
    So yet another system that will not work as it was told it would and more changes, which usually means new ways to limit players from earning things. Sure I'll try to stay positive and hope it will be a change for the better. However not sticking to things said and announced is getting a tad bit annoying.

    It's as if a company are to invest in any market and the rules and laws constantly keep changing they might decide not too invest as too much is uncertain. In this case we are the "company" investing money and time and our game rules contstantly keep changing. Even expected to pit our faith in the game and pre-order without really knowing anything. I was fine with how we could earn embers in Ered Mithrin and The Vales and now we will yet again get a new system or a tweak of the system and everything will be overturned again.

    Makes me wonder as to the motive of this ??? If the sales of lootbox keys was not profitable enough as we could earn Embers in-game so now we will earn less moving forward in hopes we buy more lootbox keys ???

    I personally had done my outmost to try and understand it and how iot would advance with each new levl cap raise and had it pretty much figured out. Now it will not be like that. Some of us just want to play and not have to take a degree in LoTRO and read page after page of posts each time to try and figure out how the game works, or how we can earn stuff in-game simply due to everything constantly changing. I thought You had a system that You would stick with for once. I guess not. *sigh*

    As usual all we as customers can do is wait and see what will happen now. What system we will get now, or how it will work, or how much we can earn moving forward and in what way. No choice really but to sit politely with our hats in our hands and wait to see what You guys decide for us if we still want to play this game.
    I think you're misunderstanding what Cord is saying...

    Current ways of acquiring Embers will be changed to reward motes instead (possibly? perhaps they will just not reward anything), and we will get new ways in Minas Morgul to earn embers.

    My question is though, will EXISTING earned embers be turned into motes, or will they stay as embers?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Funk View Post
    Well it was not said that Embers and Motes will be removed, but "the sources of future Embers and Motes will absolutely be changing".



    I read that as there will still be Embers and Motes, just that we will earn them differently, not only how we will earn them but also the amount. Not that they will be removed and go back to old system of only instance currencies. But again, we can only wait and see.
    He also said "The existing Embers and Motes in your Wallet will not be changing when the Minas Morgul expansion is released."

    Do you really expect to be able to trade instance gear for 10k upon release? We know that there will be 3 new instances at release, in that case, I would be surprised if they let us trade 130 gear with embers earned at 120cap...

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    He also said "The existing Embers and Motes in your Wallet will not be changing when the Minas Morgul expansion is released."

    Do you really expect to be able to trade instance gear for 10k upon release? We know that there will be 3 new instances at release, in that case, I would be surprised if they let us trade 130 gear with embers earned at 120cap...
    No I do not expect that. I expected the system to work as was said it would. Embers would turn into Motes, then we would have similar system as in Ered Mithrin and Vales to earn more Embers in new region, starting with 0 Embers of course. Not something new yet again. It would be nice if they stick with something as they said they would and not keep changing systems with every update. It just creates uncertainty and turmoil.

  5. #55
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    It is my belief that what I stated earlier is consistent with our long-term statements about Embers and Motes, so a suggestion that anything is changing along that line is news to me. The content used to earn Embers and Motes will shift so that Embers are typically earned by playing the most relevant end-game content. Any currency already earned will remain intact and unchanged.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    It is my belief that what I stated earlier is consistent with our long-term statements about Embers and Motes, so a suggestion that anything is changing along that line is news to me. The content used to earn Embers and Motes will shift so that Embers are typically earned by playing the most relevant end-game content. Any currency already earned will remain intact and unchanged.
    Great to hear the p2w system is here to stay*sarcasm*. Anyway, so we can expect to spend our stacked embers on the new 130 gear then?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    It is my belief that what I stated earlier is consistent with our long-term statements about Embers and Motes, so a suggestion that anything is changing along that line is news to me. The content used to earn Embers and Motes will shift so that Embers are typically earned by playing the most relevant end-game content. Any currency already earned will remain intact and unchanged.
    I'm sorry Cord, count myself amongst those who are confused by your initial statement. To clarify: are current Embers going to convert into Motes so we can start earning Embers from 0 with the new endgame?
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    It is my belief that what I stated earlier is consistent with our long-term statements about Embers and Motes, so a suggestion that anything is changing along that line is news to me. The content used to earn Embers and Motes will shift so that Embers are typically earned by playing the most relevant end-game content. Any currency already earned will remain intact and unchanged.
    If that is what You meant earlier then You are correct that it is as was announced in the past. If the content that now earn Ember will earn Motes moving forward and Embers is earned in the new area in a similar way as it was in previous end-game areas, then yes as was explained long-term has not changed.

    To me it sounded more as there would be totally other type of ways to earn them now (not sticking to the estbalished model/system anymore). As if old ember quests would not be turning into motes quest. Also sounded as if new Ember quest would not be in the same way (as they have been in skarhald and hultvis), but some totally differen way now in MM. It did not sound as if only change would be that they would be in new region, but totally other changes to the system as well.

    Thank You for clarifying that it will stay the same as current system, just updated to be in the new region through similar type of content but at LvL cap 130.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Funk View Post
    If that is what You meant earlier then You are correct that it is as was announced in the past. If the content that now earn Ember will earn Motes moving forward and Embers is earned in the new area in a similar way as it was in previous end-game areas, then yes as was explained long-term has not changed.

    To me it sounded more as there would be totally other type of ways to earn them now (not sticking to the estbalished model/system anymore). As if old ember quests would not be turning into motes quest. Also sounded as if new Ember quest would not be in the same way (as they have been in skarhald and hultvis), but some totally differen way now in MM. It did not sound as if only change would be that they would be in new region, but totally other changes to the system as well.

    Thank You for clarifying that it will stay the same as current system, just updated to be in the new region through similar type of content but at LvL cap 130.
    How can you see this as good news?

    1. Since Anvil was released ember gear and lootbox gear have been so strong that there was/is literally no reason to do T1/T2 or even T3 instance content because it would let you straight into raids.
    2. Embers have been the real source of essences, open tons of lootboxes and trade for all essences..
    3. If what he describes is true, we will be able to barter 130 gear immediately once the expansion release.

    Are people really happy with the item progression since Mordor? I don't get it. I was literally hoping for a change.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    3. If what he describes is true, we will be able to barter 130 gear immediately once the expansion release.
    Nope, if faction barter appears only after we complete all quests in location, like we have with last updates

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    How can you see this as good news?

    1. Since Anvil was released ember gear and lootbox gear have been so strong that there was/is literally no reason to do T1/T2 or even T3 instance content because it would let you straight into raids.
    2. Embers have been the real source of essences, open tons of lootboxes and trade for all essences..
    3. If what he describes is true, we will be able to barter 130 gear immediately once the expansion release.

    Are people really happy with the item progression since Mordor? I don't get it. I was literally hoping for a change.
    All I asked for was clarification. That is what I Thanked Cordovan for. I never even discussed what I think about the system, or any system for that matter in my reply to him. Being "fine" with something does not necessary mean "like" or "love" it, simply that one has accepted that that is the way it is, accepted it and maybe even adapted to it and made the best of it. All I really want is clarification and to know what rules we are to play/operate under and some kind of consistency and stability, not constant changes and/or new systems (at least not at such a quick pace). I'm honestly sick and tired of all the changes at the quick pace they have come the last 2 years. Class changes (making some trait lines that one might have enjoyed not wanted anymore), new type of lootboxes, no more keys in-game (but still lootboxes in-game), gear progression, new expansions/regions and lvl caps, pricing, cosmetic looks that don't feel LoTRO anymore, but more like some masquerade/carnival costumes etc (the list could go on). To constantly have to keep up with various post/threads to know what goes.

    Many of us only wants to play the darn game and have fun. Not feel we need a degree in LoTRO design, systems or mechanics that keep changing at every turn to know what the h*ll we're doing. This is not supposed to be a fulltime job but a fun leisure time hobby/enjoyment.

    I too want lootboxes gone. Do not confuse Ember gear coffers with lootboxes though. Embers itself does not make it Pay2Win (as you call it). Embers is just a slower alternative way to get gear (if earn them in-game). Coffers is not gambling (like lootboxes are) as You chose the reward off a list (no game of chance in that), as well as can do weeklies and various quests to earn embers in-game. You can still get gear drops in instances too. What makes it Pay2Win (as you call it) is that embers are in lootboxes that You can buy keys for for real money in the store. As far as I'm concerned lootboxes and gambling has no place in gaming at all. Remove lootboxes and make embers, gear, cosmetics, whatever, only earnable in-game. Those are goals that inpsire people to acctually play content. I agree on that. Keep the store for things like more vault space, more character slots etc.

    However that was not was this discussion was about, it was not about Pay2Win. You want it to be about that, that much is clear, but again, all I asked for was clarification. That was OP's intention with this thread as well if I read it right. To know if the latest system we spent time to understand (and was told would be the system moving forward) will still be in place or not ??? How that will affect us. We simply want to know what rules applies in the playground we play in. Nothing more, nothing less. Please do not assume what I like or don't like.

    As for what I acctullay do like (if I'm allowed to speak for myself), is that drops in an instance is now at least tradeable to others (within 1 hour) and not directly bound on aquire. As well as gear becoming account bound and not bound to character. That to me are improvements. I generally don't like caps on currencies nor do I like items being bound to character. Festival cosmetics being bound to account though is a step downwards as in the past they were mostly not bound at all.
    Last edited by Lord.Funk; Oct 02 2019 at 06:47 PM.

  12. #62
    Even if the original question has been answered, now I have even more doubts than before, because for what Cordovan said, I'm not sure now of things I thought I was sure.

    Okay, we won't lose the embers/motes when Minas Morgul is released. Now I have more questions.

    @Cordovan said that the way of earning Embers/Motes will "shift". What does this mean? I thought ember quests will be changed to motes quests, giving the exact same reward, so for example, Vales weeklies would give 750 motes each one, instead embers. But with the "shift", I don't know if this will be the case, or they will decrease the earning or even removing it entirely.

    This adds also another problematic. Are you really going to let the prices of 120 gear/essences the same as they are when they (assuming...) turn into Motes gear? A person said me that golden 115 essences cost 2500 motes, are you really letting purple 120 essences to cost 3000 motes (assuming) each? This is nonsense... As 120 will be undercap, you could at least put the same prices as Mordor gear/essences, so at least they will be cheaper for new players/players who want to stablish cap at that level

    Another question: if embers don't dissappear, am I guessing that new embers barterers in Minas Morgul WILL NOT be available at the start? Because if yes... just lol. You could just add the barterers after 1-2 months later than the expansion release, so people won't have 130 gear in day 1.

    And another question, the last one: will there be new cosmetics for figments upon release?
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  13. #63
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    Ok, so this appears consistent with the way it was announced pre-EM.

    Existing Motes/Embers remain as they are.
    Morgul content rewarding embers, EM/Vale content rewarding motes. I suppose Mordor will also still give motes? I imagine amounts will be adjusted though.

    If start of EM is any indication, having people with 10k embers is hardly an issue. At EM launch in Oct'18, the ember/lootbox gear was blue 362-365. I remember getting blue 371 in GD T1 at the time. Ember stuff did not upgrade to 370 until several weeks into EM. Heck, purple crafted was better than box/ember stuff at the time. And by the time ember stuff got to 370, there were T3 instances with better drops. Far as I can tell, best instance/raid drops always topped ember stuff by a fair margin.

    Thanks for clarification.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    Ok, so this appears consistent with the way it was announced pre-EM.

    Existing Motes/Embers remain as they are.
    Morgul content rewarding embers, EM/Vale content rewarding motes. I suppose Mordor will also still give motes? I imagine amounts will be adjusted though.

    If start of EM is any indication, having people with 10k embers is hardly an issue. At EM launch in Oct'18, the ember/lootbox gear was blue 362-365. I remember getting blue 371 in GD T1 at the time. Ember stuff did not upgrade to 370 until several weeks into EM. Heck, purple crafted was better than box/ember stuff at the time. And by the time ember stuff got to 370, there were T3 instances with better drops. Far as I can tell, best instance/raid drops always topped ember stuff by a fair margin.

    Thanks for clarification.
    I already post some info about that in other topic. During EM time, at launch it was 362-365, yes. And when they buff lootbox gear, it raise to 370, when you can get 374 from craft and 376 from faction. While instance gear was 371 in T1, and 375-375 was best gear from instance. For me, that have perfect fit for their announce item progressing Quest Gear > Lootbox Gear > Faction & Craft Gear > Instance Gear T1-T3 > Raid Gear.

  15. #65
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    My understanding is that the Motes and Embers in our wallets will remain untouched. All our stuff that would have rendered motes will continue to render motes. However all our gear that prior to launch rendered embers will also produce motes. The gear we have now at 120 that required embers will be available for purchase with motes. Well... that's if Ts are crossed and Is dotted.

    I'd think that earning and spending Embers will take a while as there's rep and content to get through first. Even key buyers should wait on reaching the new cap for the best return. If there's a return of LoE and Shadow on landscape then it's back to quest rewards gearing, might need some storage to save old quest gear if at Embers cap. I'd plan on getting motes down by turning into figments and buy some alts a mount or two. There'll be a lot of mote gear to render down.

    Likely there will be a new malleable and essence recipes some time after launch and more even later, but a new shard on patch day


    My hunch:

    Will Bow recipes return and Crossbows be forgotten, will crafted clubs still not be throwable despite the "ranged" category. Only question about guilded crafting is will it completely side line the lowbie alt guild crafters many rely on?

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  16. #66
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    Thanks for the announcement Cordovan. How things will be earned and what's in wallet seems pretty clear to me now.

    Some further questions though . . .

    All embers will be earned in Minas Morgul, so presumably there will be a new ember NPC somewhere holding the new 130 gears/essences.

    How will players hitting Ered Mithrin/Vales then earn gear/essences? A player can run Ered Mithrin content but all the decent gear for that region was on the ember barter. A player can earn Vales gear through content and Vales currencies, but not essences. Keep in mind that this content will be "old" content, and players will not be grinding it for months for end game items - they will just be passing through it on their way to Minas Morgul. If the current ember prices on the current ember NPC's in both these regions simply convert to Motes, it's not going to work. If Dwarrowgleam shard acquisition remains the same as it is now for an old region - it's not going to work. Anvil will be an old raid which nobody bothers with and nobody is going to want to run 20 old level 120 quests for one shard a week and 500 motes towards a piece of gear that costs 4000 motes and a secondary essence that costs 3500 motes - for level 120 gear when the level cap is 130.

    Gears for Ered mithrin at the "motes" NPC need to be cheaply acquired. Level 120 t2/3 essences need to move to the skirmish camp. Shards to make level 120 t4 essences need to move to the skirmish camp, so those that are ok with wasting solvents for old level gear (don't think they will be great in number) can do so without the 20 quest grind per week for one shard as Anvil shard runs will be a thing of the past.

    Rimes of the Anvil need to move also, so players have a way to craft their relic. Add them to the Vales barter for Vales currency. Or better yet just bypass the Rimes completely and allow barter of Artefacts of the Vale at the Vales NPC's.

    Players were grinding Ered Mithrin/Vales for a very long time to acquire these things through many different systems. Players passing through the two regions over a very short time, will not be able to complete systems that are old and left behind, in order to gear for Minas Morgul. If they are forced to stay behind in these two old regions, for months, grinding old systems because they need gear to take on Minas Morgul. They will hit level 130 long before they are even ready to look at Minas Morgul.

    I can't emphasise this enough . . . .

    There needs to be a way that they can run the region and be geared for the next region, without having to hang back for months, doing daily quests for weekly rewards before they can become geared for the next region.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Oct 03 2019 at 02:02 AM.
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post

    My hunch:

    Only question about guilded crafting is will it completely side line the lowbie alt guild crafters many rely on?
    That's my hunch too. That they will make new guild crafting rely on end game quests, hence, only level 130 crafters will be able to take part. I'm ok with that. What won't be ok with me, is if a currently non guilded crafter can just jump in at the new cap and ramp on with it, but I have a hunch, that's how it will play. They already stole the jewel of guild crafting and passed it around the party with the Vales, so I doubt they will stop there.

    Another reason why I'm waiting for beta . . . or launch, before parting with my money. I'll decide how much the expac is worth to me, based on how well, or badly they consider my previous time and money spent.
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post

    Another question: if embers don't dissappear, am I guessing that new embers barterers in Minas Morgul WILL NOT be available at the start? Because if yes... just lol. You could just add the barterers after 1-2 months later than the expansion release, so people won't have 130 gear in day 1.
    Players will need level 130 gear as soon as they are level 130. Doesn't matter if that takes a day, or a couple of months. Levelling via quests in a new area is a very fast activity. I always go head down and fast through new content on my first alt through, and usually hit a new cap within a day or two. Having to wait a month or two to gear up after that would just make me log out and not come back til the barter is open. I very much doubt 10K embers will buy much, it's certainly not going to buy a whole set of BiS gear that's for sure. It's more likely it will buy one or two pieces of first gen ember items, which will swiftly be made obsolete a couple of months later by the next gen that comes along.
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmagor View Post
    Nope, if faction barter appears only after we complete all quests in location, like we have with last updates
    That's not what I ment.. what I mean is that it's weird being able to barter new 130 gear with a currency earned from a previous expansion.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Players will need level 130 gear as soon as they are level 130. Doesn't matter if that takes a day, or a couple of months. Levelling via quests in a new area is a very fast activity. I always go head down and fast through new content on my first alt through, and usually hit a new cap within a day or two. Having to wait a month or two to gear up after that would just make me log out and not come back til the barter is open. I very much doubt 10K embers will buy much, it's certainly not going to buy a whole set of BiS gear that's for sure. It's more likely it will buy one or two pieces of first gen ember items, which will swiftly be made obsolete a couple of months later by the next gen that comes along.
    I sure some gear will be available from start, but gear levels raise in few weeks again.

  21. #71
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    are we 100% sure? look at the photo i posted (not mine)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Any currency already earned will remain intact and unchanged.


    are you confirming that we can spend the embers we have saved up in the 130 expansion, and that they will not be auto-converted to motes like they were when the cap was raised from 115 to 120 a year or so ago?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Players will need level 130 gear as soon as they are level 130. Doesn't matter if that takes a day, or a couple of months. Levelling via quests in a new area is a very fast activity. I always go head down and fast through new content on my first alt through, and usually hit a new cap within a day or two. Having to wait a month or two to gear up after that would just make me log out and not come back til the barter is open. I very much doubt 10K embers will buy much, it's certainly not going to buy a whole set of BiS gear that's for sure. It's more likely it will buy one or two pieces of first gen ember items, which will swiftly be made obsolete a couple of months later by the next gen that comes along.
    Do you know it's possible to overcap embers??? And also this should be a fresh start, everyone should start equally imo.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    Do you know it's possible to overcap embers??? And also this should be a fresh start, everyone should start equally imo.
    It doesn't work that way on my wallet. I accidentally earned 500 over cap just a couple of weeks ago, and I 100% lost them. I had a notification in chat to tell me I had lost them, and my wallet showed 10,000/10,000. If it were possible to overcap, it would have shown 10,500/10,000.

    I'd like to know how some players are capable of over-capping, and some aren't. If a player can have 174K embers at their disposal at the start of Minas Morgul then something is seriously broken. Could it be early Mordor ash farms for massive amounts of uncapped motes - were then converted to embers when Ered Mithrin launched? If so . . . . that needs addressing - as in everything over 10K, needs to convert down to motes/figments - whether that is unpopular . . . or not.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Oct 03 2019 at 08:17 AM.
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    It doesn't work that way on my wallet. I accidentally earned 500 over cap just a couple of weeks ago, and I 100% lost them. I had a notification in chat to tell me I had lost them, and my wallet showed 10,000/10,000. If it were possible to overcap, it would have shown 10,500/10,000.

    I'd like to know how some players are capable of over-capping, and some aren't. If a player can have 174K embers at their disposal at the start of Minas Morgul then something is seriously broken. Could it be early Mordor ash farms for massive amounts of uncapped motes - were then converted to embers when Ered Mithrin launched? If so . . . . that needs addressing - as in everything over 10K, needs to convert down to motes/figments - whether that is unpopular . . . or not.
    Don't want to give them ideas, but... what if 130 level gear will need 2 diferent currency to buy? As example, Dol Amrot faction needs Silver Dol Amrot tokens and Gold Dol Amrot tokens. What if 130 level gear needs both embers and faction currency, let's name them morgulins?

  25. #75
    @Daniyel - well, this is clearly the reason why embers should convert to motes. This is proof of 2 things: overcap can happen, and people starting with overcapped embers in a new expansion is not good. I'd pretty much prefer that they transform embers into motes and overcap the motes rather than the embers. Or just remove the stupid cap for motes and figments.

    @Elmagor - shhh don't give them bad ideas!

    Morgulins lmao, I hope this becomes the official token name for Minas Morgul
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