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  1. #126
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marxlne View Post
    OK guys, just to put things into perspective i've made a simple difficulty comparison on LOTRO and Final Fantasy XIV, just to showcase where LOTRO stands at the moment on landscape difficulty compared to competing MMO.
    In both games i play the sturdiest tank class (Guardian vs Paladin) and in FFXIV video i am actually even 2 levels higher than the mobs. Also, i'm wearing raid gear in both tests and in FF pull i even burn through all my CD-s to try to stay alive ...

    Thanks of showing this. It shows how rediculous Lotros landscape is. Pulling a whole camp even with a tank should never be possible. Andthis is not just guards every class is able to this.
    ossible

    Quote Originally Posted by cipher_nemo View Post
    Um, no thank you. I don't need to be a masochist to enjoy LOTRO or any MMO. I don't want to play a FPS, I want to relax and enjoy a stroll through Middle Earth. If that is your ideal MMO, why are you here? It has been an easy solo progression for many, many years.
    Just cause soemthing went wrong since years it doesn´t make it right.

  2. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by TesalionLortus View Post
    WOW

    The difference is... LOTRO, in its current form, welcomes all players who want to experience Middle-earth IN FULL *no matter their gaming experience and knowledge of the game stats.* This is why me (and probably... most of the LOTRO players) will never be able to face that many mobs and "live to tell the tale." For me, the idea to engage all those orcs at once is simply insane and scary. I would die. I enjoy to increase my stats from time to time and always choose the best gear when I get a chance. But I would still die. I have no idea how you keep all the insane morale heals coming, they can never finish you off. For me, it's "magic wand" and completely surreal. But I don't spend my time reading about lotro stats and numbers, I never did. I just go with my gut feel and whatever little experience I got along the way - that's how my "roleplaying" approach works.
    In the first test, the build is using significant amounts of block/parry/evade to negate damage, so it's not really a "normal" landscape questing build. The second one is more typical of what you would see. In the first video, you can see from the combat stats that a full 35% of all incoming attacks do exactly zero damage because they were completely parried/blocked/evaded, and a further 32% of attacks were partially B/P/E'd, which drastically reduces their damage. So only 33% of all attacks were even fully landing to do their full amount of damage, and then you combine max mitigations, which will reduce that damage by 60-70%, compared to the 30% you might see on a poorly-equipped character, and that is how you survive so long.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoBasilisk View Post
    In the first test, the build is using significant amounts of block/parry/evade to negate damage, so it's not really a "normal" landscape questing build. The second one is more typical of what you would see. In the first video, you can see from the combat stats that a full 35% of all incoming attacks do exactly zero damage because they were completely parried/blocked/evaded, and a further 32% of attacks were partially B/P/E'd, which drastically reduces their damage. So only 33% of all attacks were even fully landing to do their full amount of damage, and then you combine max mitigations, which will reduce that damage by 60-70%, compared to the 30% you might see on a poorly-equipped character, and that is how you survive so long.
    Yeah, that didn't look at all like what I'd see as a casually-geared Captain. As the game ages the difference between the characters who've got the best gear and those with the basic gear grows more and more apart and leads to the elitist insults that get thrown around a lot.
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir


  4. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by auximenes View Post
    Yeah, that didn't look at all like what I'd see as a casually-geared Captain. As the game ages the difference between the characters who've got the best gear and those with the basic gear grows more and more apart and leads to the elitist insults that get thrown around a lot.
    Please don't start with the "gear thing" topic again. It's not about the gear ... i can do the whole camp pull with "basic" crafted lvl 120 gear if you want - of course then i would actually have to utilize some cooldowns but it wouldn't be a much harder pull really.
    Root of the problem is - landscape mobs output damage is simply too low and players output damage and survival capabilities are too high. And believe me it's not about guardian class specific thing also - other classes have also lots of tricks to make such large pulls. You just have to know your class and traits.

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marxlne View Post
    The problem with this, and other arguments about difficulty, is that it only demonstrates (or states in the majority of cases) what "you" can do. It doesn't demonstrate what a random selection of x people playing Guardians (or any other class) could do. It's statistically irrelevant.

    Also, did you speed up part of this video? Like around the 1 minute mark?

  6. #131
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marxlne View Post
    OK guys, just to put things into perspective i've made a simple difficulty comparison on LOTRO and Final Fantasy XIV, just to showcase where LOTRO stands at the moment on landscape difficulty compared to competing MMO.
    In both games i play the sturdiest tank class (Guardian vs Paladin) and in FFXIV video i am actually even 2 levels higher than the mobs. Also, i'm wearing raid gear in both tests and in FF pull i even burn through all my CD-s to try to stay alive ...
    It is worth noting here that the landscape content in FFXIV is generally considered to be pretty easy by the players. Most of FFXIV is made for casual players, with only the optional Savage and Extreme version of instances being designed to provide a real challenge to players. (Savage/Extreme is more or less FFXIV's equivalent to T2C difficulty in LOTRO - stuff that is not intended to be doable by everyone.)

    There is easy and easy. Landscape content in FFXIV is easy in that you only need to have basic knowledge of your class and pay a modicum of attention to your pulls to get through it.
    Low-level landscape content in LOTRO is beyond easy - you do not need to know your class or pay much attention at all to get through it. Small pulls can be handled by auto-attacks alone, and so can larger pulls if you have good gear. If you have good gear and know how to play your class you can basically pull as much as you want and still survive.


    Nobody is saying that the average landscape content (or the typical fellowship T1 dungeons) in LOTRO should be made truely difficult as such, but making it a tad more difficult such that you actually need a working brain and reflexes better than those of a geriatric snail to handle it - that would make it more fun, while still keeping it accessible to just about everyone.

  7. #132
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    Jun 2010
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    You can see in the Final Fantasy XIV video that the speed of attacks seems to be a bit slower than those in LOTRO. LOTRO used to be that way once.. and the landscape wasn't so much faceroll

    Also... god how ugly their effects are. I don't understand why so many of those types of MMOs like that eye bleeding junk.
    Chromite/Grumbletocks/Grumbletunes/Schrade on Landroval, Chromite on Arkenstone, Appendage on Brandywine

  8. #133
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altair6 View Post
    The problem with this, and other arguments about difficulty, is that it only demonstrates (or states in the majority of cases) what "you" can do. It doesn't demonstrate what a random selection of x people playing Guardians (or any other class) could do. It's statistically irrelevant.

    Also, did you speed up part of this video? Like around the 1 minute mark?
    Obviously, to show the mobs could do him little harm for an extended period. A couple or more years back these numbers would be net healing the guardian. Not so far off that here.

    If a solo player just gets what SSG provide for then to get in the solo game they can spec and gear to make this content easy. Problem is they are programmed to underachieve if they fall in with the wrong folk.
    If your intellect can't fathom my reasoning it's me who's unreasonable?

  9. #134
    As per the video, yes landscape tends to be on the easier side of things. I know this, I agree. To be fair though, the average player is not going to have 356k + morale in tank spec or 218k + morale in dps spec. If you want to convince more players, dress the part. Gear as a casual would, prove it's all about skill and little to do with gear. LI's, essences, armour, jewelry, all at an average players settings. Show your gear with what essences and LI's so that the "casual" player CAN achieve that same set up, to be able to make that type of pull on landscape.
    This is Cyan.
    This is Teal.
    Learn your colors people.

  10. #135
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    Dec 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by KielArronax View Post
    As per the video, yes landscape tends to be on the easier side of things. I know this, I agree. To be fair though, the average player is not going to have 356k + morale in tank spec or 218k + morale in dps spec. If you want to convince more players, dress the part. Gear as a casual would, prove it's all about skill and little to do with gear. LI's, essences, armour, jewelry, all at an average players settings. Show your gear with what essences and LI's so that the "casual" player CAN achieve that same set up, to be able to make that type of pull on landscape.
    I got you fam.
    Say no more.



    Items worn are at the end of the video.

    Spoiler: It's a spear, a shield, a javelin and a Universal Toolkit. No Stat-tomes.

  11. #136
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marxlne View Post
    Please don't start with the "gear thing" topic again. It's not about the gear ... i can do the whole camp pull with "basic" crafted lvl 120 gear if you want - of course then i would actually have to utilize some cooldowns but it wouldn't be a much harder pull really.
    I'm sorry but gear is a big factor, so is the class. Even 'basic' crafted 120 gear is better than most casual players will have due to the ingredients necessary to craft 120 gear. My perspective is rooted in playing a red-line Captain with probably a thrird of the morale, defense, and offense as your example and I don't have the heals or attack skills to match yours either.

    Quote Originally Posted by KielArronax View Post
    As per the video, yes landscape tends to be on the easier side of things. I know this, I agree. To be fair though, the average player is not going to have 356k + morale in tank spec or 218k + morale in dps spec. If you want to convince more players, dress the part. Gear as a casual would, prove it's all about skill and little to do with gear. LI's, essences, armour, jewelry, all at an average players settings. Show your gear with what essences and LI's so that the "casual" player CAN achieve that same set up, to be able to make that type of pull on landscape.
    Thanks.

    To be clear, I'm not saying that landscape content is too hard, I enjoyed the original Mordor landscape balance for example, but the constant mockery of anybody who says that the landscape should be left as it is and not made more difficulty is getting really old.
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir


 

 
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