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  1. #1

    SSG should make an effort for more representation.

    This is gonna be a fun thread innit.

    This game, running for 12 years and counting now, has portrayed exactly 0 queer relationships.

    We're running errands to marry a couple in Forochel, we're helping a young couple of lovebirds run away in Rohan, and there are countless other quest that involve relationships to lesser and greater extents in the game, be it helping out a dwarf by giving him a bouquet of flowers for his female sweetheart or slaying a mighty wolf so a husband can impress his wife.
    And all of these relationships are entirely straight.

    And that bothers me, honestly. Yes, LotR didn't feature any gay/lesbian/bi characters, but it was also written between the 30s and 50s, when anything not strictly hetronormative was branded as a disease. In 2019 we can do better than that. And SSG has showed that willingness to adapt to mordern times before. Purely by including more than three female characters with a larger speaking role SSG has already adressed some of the rather irky sexist exclusion that is present in LotR, and their recent work to expand the depth and morality of the easterlings has already done a ton for the rather racist undertones present in the original tale (All the minions of evil looking foreign and all the heroes being caucasion is a bit... Eh?)

    Tolkien was a great author, but also a man of his time, he can't be blamed that some aspects of his work have aged less gracefully as his prose. SSG however, adapting a tale in 2019, should be held to greater standards.

    I'm not calling for turning any of the established characters from the books gay or something, but having a quest in the next update that includes picking flowers so a man could court the weaponsmiths son instead of daughter would be a nice change of pace. That's the lowest I can set the bar, of course it'd better if SSG had returning LGBT character(s) or something but I digress.

    And oh, if anyone says this would go against the wishes of catholic Tolkien, I've got bad news. I quite vididly remember him saying in one of his collected letters he enjoyed Mary Renault's "Last of the Wine" a very gay novel set in Athens. If Tolkien's catholic morality didn't prevent him from enjoying a story featuring gay relationships, I doubt he would have much minded for a gay relationship to be added to his legendarium.
    The road goes ever on.

  2. #2
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    What is the sound of a thread getting closed?

  3. #3
    Why ?

    The game isn't about romance or sex, it's about farming scrolls, farming embers and farming virtues : P

    What would an explicit mention of some npcs being queer make such a difference to you ?

    Like I understand why it would bother you in some AAA games when you are really involved with the characters (dialogue choices and ####) and when they're not just some extra on the scene. BUT with such an old mmo, where the interactions with the npcs are all scripted, and you mostly end up forgetting about them. I don't see why mentionning whether they're straight or else would be relevant.

    Why not just use your mind, like you could RP or just assume that most dwarves are gay ? Use your imagination : )

  4. #4
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    Nobody in real life deserves to have their beliefs or appearances represented in a video game. I have severe arthritis and walk with a limp, and you don't see me whining because people in LOTRO don't walk with arthritis and a limp.


    Not only that, I play games to get away from real life, I don't want real life issues brought into my game play.


    This entitled "me too" mentality is annoying.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  5. #5
    IBTL.......

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    Nobody in real life deserves to have their beliefs or appearances represented in a video game. I have severe arthritis and walk with a limp, and you don't see me whining because people in LOTRO don't walk with arthritis and a limp.


    Not only that, I play games to get away from real life, I don't want real life issues brought into my game play.


    This entitled "me too" mentality is annoying.
    I did wonder at the Mini yellow trait that was added in the last round. It would provide you means to RP your RL situation. Can toggle off if there's some remission or on a better day.

    Agreed, we are here for the escapism. Is why we have religion and politics off the table. Can RP Dis as being trans if needed.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  7. #7
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    I don't really care about the idea strongly either way, but my 2 cents is that when political discussion comes up on world chat it is already bad enough and details any actual game conversations, and this change would like cause a lottt more toxicity from certain players. Not worth the inevitable arguments it will cause.

    Also you are forgetting that two of the most prominent characters, Frodo and Sam were defiently on that side of the bed,if ya know what I mean.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by afferas View Post

    Also you are forgetting that two of the most prominent characters, Frodo and Sam were defiently on that side of the bed,if ya know what I mean.
    I'm confused, do you mean defiantly or definitely?

  9. #9
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    I agree. We should have stories featuring more different kinds of lives. More variety is a plus when a game has this much content.

    This thread will just become a flamewar, and obviously you know that OP .
    On Crickhollow: Wenslydale (Hobbit Burglar), Leolwyn (Woman Hunter)
    On Anor, Victory's Secret: Ardith Exhibitionaire (Woman Captain)
    Feel the Breeze! Naked Aventuring: http://www.lotro.com/forums/showthre...endary-servers

  10. #10
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    I dunno about that. Sam had the hots for Rosie Cotton right from the start and married her soon as he came back. And Frodo was too messed up by the Ring to even think in that direction.
    If anything, one might opt to consider Legolas and Gimli a couple.
    People these days apparently just don't get that bonds can be other than sexual. Gotta blame the Hollywood movies where people who go through some intense stuff togeather, somehow always end up between the same sheets.
    But of course, one may not disagree with OP without instantly getting labeled a bigot, chauvinist, misogynist, homophobe and generally an Extremely Bad Person (cue the horde of rabid poo-flinging monkeys).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    Nobody in real life deserves to have their beliefs or appearances represented in a video game. I have severe arthritis and walk with a limp, and you don't see me whining because people in LOTRO don't walk with arthritis and a limp.


    Not only that, I play games to get away from real life, I don't want real life issues brought into my game play.


    This entitled "me too" mentality is annoying.
    Just curious, have people with arthritis been historically opressed, murderd in streets, shamed and kicked out of their houses? Do people with arthritis need representation as badly as the LGBT+ people that are still being actively hunted out and murderd in big parts of the world? If you awnser yes, then I concede, but let's not pretend that the need for arthrisis representation is as great as the need for even the most basic acknowledgment it's players that aren't part of the hetronormative culture exist.

    The fact you see gay representation as a 'real life issue' makes me think I'm probably wasting my breath though. If gays existing is an issue than I have bad new hun, we make up over 6% of the population.

    Why ?

    The game isn't about romance or sex, it's about farming scrolls, farming embers and farming virtues : P

    What would an explicit mention of some npcs being queer make such a difference to you ?

    Why? Why not? There are many romantic relationships portrayed in this game, there shouldn't have to be made a special case that a super small percentage of them aren't between a man and a woman. It's rather easy to say reprensetation doesn't matter when your romantic orientation is presented in literally every piece of media ever.


    ---------
    To all the people labeling this as politics: Gay people existing and wanting representation is political, but the quest arc in Dale where you are compasionate to regfugees and assist them besides the existence of bad apples that hurt the dale population isn't in any way political? Sorry sweeties, politics is culture, and culture is always going to be a part of your videogames.

    To all the people saying in before lock: Don't think it's gonna be long now.
    The road goes ever on.

  12. #12
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    The author of this fantasy world should be honored and relationships left as he portrayed them.

    Modern political activism should be left out of it.

    And every thread associated should be closed.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronimli View Post
    To all the people labeling this as politics: Gay people existing and wanting representation is political, but the quest arc in Dale where you are compasionate to regfugees and assist them besides the existence of bad apples that hurt the dale population isn't in any way political? Sorry sweeties, politics is culture, and culture is always going to be a part of your videogames.

    To all the people saying in before lock: Don't think it's gonna be long now.
    Ain't nuthin that gets some folks panties in a bunch more than the threat of variety.
    On Crickhollow: Wenslydale (Hobbit Burglar), Leolwyn (Woman Hunter)
    On Anor, Victory's Secret: Ardith Exhibitionaire (Woman Captain)
    Feel the Breeze! Naked Aventuring: http://www.lotro.com/forums/showthre...endary-servers

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronimli View Post
    Just curious, have people with arthritis been historically opressed, murderd in streets, shamed and kicked out of their houses? Do people with arthritis need representation as badly as the LGBT+ people that are still being actively hunted out and murderd in big parts of the world?.

    What does that have to do with this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Echoweaver View Post
    Ain't nuthin that gets some folks panties in a bunch more than the threat of variety.
    It's not variety that I am against. I love a lot of things in game that were not in the books, like all the cosmetic outfits, the elk mount, my Halloween mount with the glowing eyes, and I'm actually starting to enjoy playing rune keeper. I like variety. But for example, I would HATE for sexy outfits to be in game because that was not in the books.


    It's just that I play to get away from real life, and I hate it when people want to bring their real life agendas into game, that's all. The OP thinks I'm some sort of rabid homophobe(not sure about spelling), and I'm not.

    I also can't stand it when someone says they want something in game and come out swinging at anyone that dares disagree with them.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  15. #15
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    Thank you for the feedback. Unfortunately this discussion is not able to take place on these forums without it quickly turning into homophobia, insults, politics, and trolling, so it needs to be closed for now.
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