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  1. #1

    Heals are really low

    So even in the landscape, mobs are hitting for around 3k. My heals, fully stacked to tier 3 can't deliver more than 4k at 70% tactical outgoing healing. I have applied 90 Trait points so far and still need to work more on my virtues, around 40 right now. Yeah I can gear better, but that takes time. And in the meantime should I not join the Featured Instance as a healer RK? I thought the FI was meant so I could gear up a bit better. If I can't do that, then I'm down to entirely Embers grind. So I'll see you with my RK in a few months? Seems wasteful of player talent.

    How do I gear up faster?

    How do I buff my heals enough to be relevant as a healer?

    Looking at other threads here, I'm seeing that the fates stone was nerfed. OK, fine. It's still the most useful emergency skill, however, I can't plan for an emergency need every 1.5 minutes. The problem seems to be improper scaling of ordinary heals, and the tiers make almost no difference.

    Prelude is laughable at 400ish heals.

    The healing runestone, with my runestone legacy fully maxed, is doing about 850 per tick. Is that relevant to current play? I'd say, no.

    Rune sign of winter, doing about 1k... ok at least that's a group heal but irrelevant.

    As many have pointed out our channel skill does nothing relevant other than it's a group heal. The ticks are around 2k.

    Again, yes, I could gear better, I didn't think I needed to be fully geared for some of the lower level stuff like side bosses in Anvil, the FI, and Pela. I returned recently so I may be out of touch. Have we moved to a system where people who are trying to get geared should not join groups until they are?

    The bubbles seem to be the only truly effective heal because they combine damage absorption with heals. But if that's the only thing, and the fate stone, then we're secondary healers at best, with no buffing or debuffing (utility) skills to make up for the loss.

    I mean the utility skill (Flurry) is like 3% stuff, and requires a 2 second induction, which, honestly I'm spending that time on a Mending Verse.

    I also feel like "Do Not Die This Day" is a forgotten skill. Who would really focus on it, with a 5 min cooldown? And 30s duration? Yeah I get it, once per named mob battle. But in 5 minutes we've completed half of an FI and (School is the current one) and the tank will need it for kiting possibly. Should we all stand around waiting for the 5 min timer? It's just not that reliable. If it were a 90 second duration, then it might be worth using and possibly waiting for. In general I don't like such skills. They're never balanced right so either they're not useful or they're OP.

    Why not change do not die this day (or provide an alternative new skill) so it's instead a damage reduction. And if someone has multiple damage reductions, only the highest % is applied? No player is psychic we don't know what others are doing. If I use it on a cappy then he may already have shield of dunedain, for example. It wouldn't be a "waste" because my duration may be longer. It can step down to the next highest that's still active, when one times out.

    Idk, maybe this isn't done because it would lead to even more detriment / benefit lag.

    In general I believe the RK is in a bad state because maybe we lost a developer who understood the class very well? I don't know, but it seems like HoTs are not understood or tested well. I played the FIs when they first started out, and my RK heals were relevant then. As long as I was healing, nobody got really hurt and only one or two resurrects had to be done. Now it seems impossible to keep up even if I'm frantically casting heals.

    Not good enough group heal.

    Extremely slow direct heal (Epic).

    Currently only the bubbles actually keep people alive, and are still in need of further heals to undo the damage, even in a simple instance.

    Edit2: I forgot to mention, we have no relevant threat reduction skill. Using an attack to reduce threat is not helpful when it attunes 3 toward damage and has induction and cooldown issues. A real threat reduction is needed. If for no other reason, I'm getting interrupted. I'd be happy to channel a meditation that would drop my mobs off me, even if it did nothing else. It would be worth it in some situations. But what I really need is full time threat reduction that comes from a heal. I'm guessing rune sign of winter would be a good candidate for that since it doesn't relevantly heal at the moment anyway.

    Unclear path to gearing, though that may be because I'm not yet in the groove after returning.

    If someone knows of a good current guide to the RK, I'd love to see it.
    Last edited by gripply; Aug 01 2019 at 02:05 AM. Reason: added trait points and virtues info so you see where I stand with development

  2. #2
    There's something funny about the LI legacies. I played around and changed a legacy. I added healing over time instead of something else. My Prelude went from around 500 to 1500, face value, even though the legacy is not leveled up yet (haven't applied any xp yet). Or the skill could be affected by the addition of writ of health legacy, which I added to my pouch. In general taking off my pouch affects the face value of Prelude more than taking off my weapon. No legacy explicitly says it affects Prelude healing, and the heal over time legacy is at a mere 8% right now. So this looks like a bug.

    In the past, Prelude was useful for people who took some aoe damage but I wasn't worried about them dying, so a HoT was all that was needed. Now it's too weak, even with this current buff. Even a solo geared tank has nearly 200k health. This doesn't even heal a mosquito bite at face value.

    It says "heals target for 2% per healing attunement" which would be 20% (assuming, 20% of their health). Here's the issue: My current health is around 89k, using mending verse, and following with Prelude (to get 2%) shows about 1800 for the "bonus" heal. And 20% of my health is around 18k. Setting aside for a minute that 1500 as an average heal per second from Prelude is irrelevant for preventing damage in battle, 12X 1500 = 18000. So the total healing of this spell right now is 40% of my health, if I wait 12 seconds.

    That's like having an induction on a 40% heal that's 12 seconds long.

    Can you see what's broken now? No matter the gear, waiting 12 seconds should result in better than 40% of the health of the target.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Taking off your pouch affects healing the most because the tactical healing rating on it is the most important thing to increase your healing.

    Also Preludes description references the skills healing - it heals 20% more at full attunement. And that 20% is Outgoing Healing based so its not a plain 20% increase of what is on your tooltip but a lot lower.
    Last edited by Blato; Jul 28 2019 at 08:16 AM.
    Make Moors Great Again - Crickhollow
    Ishlan R13 WL, Nalshi R11 Rvr, Ishnal R9 Weaver, Lashin R6 Warg
    Blato (Mini), Shilan (Ward), Sahlin (Beorn), Grobnir (Guard), Hergis (RK), Ishlun (Capt)

  4. #4
    Healing: Yup, you need to take a look at your Rune-satchel. To get your healing skills effective, you need to throw as many Anfalas Star-lit Crystals at it as possible (since that will increase your base HPS). Aquiring crystals is the hard part though. The most common is running Pelargir until your eyes bleed, then trading your Stars of Merrits for crystals.

    Do Not Fall This Day has an uptime of 5 minutes. This was changed from 30 seconds a long time ago. With cooldown legacy, you can keep it on two targets simultaneously. This is actually quite powerful, you don't even have to be in blue line for this.

    I agree RK healing still has issues - no AoE healing skills to speak of, our Epic that takes Ages (which isn't very epic), and animation delays.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorikon View Post
    Healing: Yup, you need to take a look at your Rune-satchel. To get your healing skills effective, you need to throw as many Anfalas Star-lit Crystals at it as possible (since that will increase your base HPS). Aquiring crystals is the hard part though. The most common is running Pelargir until your eyes bleed, then trading your Stars of Merrits for crystals.

    Do Not Fall This Day has an uptime of 5 minutes. This was changed from 30 seconds a long time ago. With cooldown legacy, you can keep it on two targets simultaneously. This is actually quite powerful, you don't even have to be in blue line for this.

    I agree RK healing still has issues - no AoE healing skills to speak of, our Epic that takes Ages (which isn't very epic), and animation delays.
    My LI's are both completely maxed, but yeah if they weren't that would be a problem. Everything I said is with an LI that has the full 616 levels, actually both are. The crystals I pretty much buy up first, and any I can't buy I just get with Mithril. Then I work on the legacies after. Being squishy, I can't afford to hit things 12 times before they stop hitting me.

    I didn't realize some of the tooltips were wrong. Is there a buglist somewhere? I'd like to contribute that if it's not there already.

    Also:

    Outgoing healing isn't something I can look at. Tactical healing is a %-age that shows, but not the effect of outgoing healing. Or is it? At the least, it's confusing. At worst, it's invisible.

    No cosmetic weapons will show on RK. Not even a "Love Note" from the event quests. Seems odd since love notes would be particularly appropriate for an Rk. Or maybe a "Declaration of War" if love note is too lovey for some people. I'd love to have a really cool looking weapon, but the best I can do is a spherical rock or an elongated rock? Could we at least equip daggers cosmetically? I might be able to find an interesting looking dagger.

    Sorry I know that's OT for this thread, but I'd love to help with a buglist for this class.

  6. #6

    Prelude to Hope 2% per attunement broken?

    I did manage to test, even solo, the Prelude to hope 20% at full attunement theory. This is stated on the face value of the heal. The average heal with out attunement is around 1500, at 9 attunement, it's still 1500. I didn't manage to catch it at 10. So unless there's something that needs to be active for that to apply, it isn't working. At least not like it's stated in the tooltip.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by gripply View Post
    I did manage to test, even solo, the Prelude to hope 20% at full attunement theory. This is stated on the face value of the heal. The average heal with out attunement is around 1500, at 9 attunement, it's still 1500. I didn't manage to catch it at 10. So unless there's something that needs to be active for that to apply, it isn't working. At least not like it's stated in the tooltip.
    I can't log in right now but it certainly goes up when full attunement, something like from 1800 to 1900 or so. And tbh remove delay on it and it would be a really good skill, it heals nearly 2k each second, and can be kept up 100% uptime, with blue rk crit chance (around 50-60%) there's a huge chance it triggers like 6k heals each second.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    I can't log in right now but it certainly goes up when full attunement, something like from 1800 to 1900 or so. And tbh remove delay on it and it would be a really good skill, it heals nearly 2k each second, and can be kept up 100% uptime, with blue rk crit chance (around 50-60%) there's a huge chance it triggers like 6k heals each second.
    So a correction: someone pointed out i had said 90% when I meant 70% healing in my OP. I will go fix it in a sec.

    I'm usually playing in yellow but I set up a blue trait, I'm unfamiliar with that. I mean, I was familiar but then I took a long break and I'm a bit lost now. I don't remember the 50% crit from there, but that may explain why it feels like I'm not properly healing right now. Crit may hopefully resolve this, except I hear a lot of complaining on heals with RK, so it might be that there's some new strategy we haven't figured out - or it really is broken.

    Your comment is what I'm seeing, it bumps up to 1800ish from attunement, but it takes a crit to get anything truly useful from it at these levels. That would be fine if this was a "you always crit if you have good gear" games, but it's not.

    That's not to be taken a request. I really like the idea that we have a chance to not crit. I'm all for not inventing new stats to replace crit. However, I have to feel like, on landscape, even if mobbed, I could keep myself alive if all I do is heal. At the moment, that's a lost cause, and it means I'm not a good healer of others either. Idk if it's a good litmus test, but I've used that test before to good effect.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by gripply View Post
    So a correction: someone pointed out i had said 90% when I meant 70% healing in my OP. I will go fix it in a sec.

    I'm usually playing in yellow but I set up a blue trait, I'm unfamiliar with that. I mean, I was familiar but then I took a long break and I'm a bit lost now. I don't remember the 50% crit from there, but that may explain why it feels like I'm not properly healing right now. Crit may hopefully resolve this, except I hear a lot of complaining on heals with RK, so it might be that there's some new strategy we haven't figured out - or it really is broken.

    Your comment is what I'm seeing, it bumps up to 1800ish from attunement, but it takes a crit to get anything truly useful from it at these levels. That would be fine if this was a "you always crit if you have good gear" games, but it's not.

    That's not to be taken a request. I really like the idea that we have a chance to not crit. I'm all for not inventing new stats to replace crit. However, I have to feel like, on landscape, even if mobbed, I could keep myself alive if all I do is heal. At the moment, that's a lost cause, and it means I'm not a good healer of others either. Idk if it's a good litmus test, but I've used that test before to good effect.
    Heal rk is broken in the way that you have no reactive or emergency skills, no support for the group and not a good rezz for a healing class, apart from really weak aoe heals. So then you would prefer mini, bear to heal and basically ignore rks, so that's why heal rk's complain.

    You get 25% from crit rating, 5% from trait and 2% per attunement, so in total it's something like 50% crit chance, that's pretty much a high %.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    Heal rk is broken in the way that you have no reactive or emergency skills, no support for the group and not a good rezz for a healing class, apart from really weak aoe heals. So then you would prefer mini, bear to heal and basically ignore rks, so that's why heal rk's complain.

    You get 25% from crit rating, 5% from trait and 2% per attunement, so in total it's something like 50% crit chance, that's pretty much a high %.
    Yeah I had a chance to test the crit buff from attunement on that long way out of the anvil area (landscape). Prelude was actually helpful at full attunement because of the crits.

    However, at 120, I'm not starting over with a mini or bear. And I paid for this class, if I paid for nothing, then...? It was advertised as a healer and dps-er. But even if I wanted to return it, I'd be a year behind everyone starting over with another class.

    The real solution is to fix RK and then everyone's happy.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    I found this on Redit

    _————————— ——

    Mini and bear are fantastic. The standard setup has one of each for raids. In comparison healing RK has lowersingle target healing, worse recovery/panic button, no AOE healing, inability to move or be moved by the fight, and no true rez. On top of this mini and bear have tremendously powerful buffs/debuffs respectively to benefit the group, while RK has nothing. Bears can also overflow into significant AOE damage by pressing 1-2 buttons in their rotation when things aren't super tight as a pure bonus (not required for viability)
    RK can heal a lot fo content because it is easy or the RK can be carried. When content gets hard RK brings less than half the value of a real healer and should not be considered viable.
    Blue captain should be mentioned as the third healer class. It has the highest groupwide AOE healing in a very consistent profile, with a ton of utility. Single target is lower, even lower thanm RK, but the class brings enough to be very strong and easily viable as the 3rd healing class.
    Personally I stopped playing my blue RK earlier this year because the healing gap is just too big. Mid 30k single target with all the downsides just isn't enough. I don't play mini, but both bear and captain are better in every scenario than my much loved healing RK.

    —————————— ———

    Sounds really worrying for RK healing?

    It made me decide to stop leveling my RK till thing clear ..

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Bachus View Post
    Sounds really worrying for RK healing?

    It made me decide to stop leveling my RK till thing clear ..
    It's pretty much the same as with Captain. RK was a good healer until Helm's Deep when developers abandoned the old class concept of one holistic class and switched to three separate lines inside every class, destroying most of the classes in the process. RK lost a lot of additional abilities that made him a good healer (group wards/damage reduction against certain types of damage, group damage reduction and redirect, interrupt immunity, several debuffs and croud control spells). He was left basically with bare minimum of heals which were mostly hots. It was enought when we had low health and damage numbers and additional abilities in the kit, but after HD is was worse and worse until Mordor, obsolite and so on. There was a small buff to healing numbers around a year ago, but RK perfomance declined rapidlay again.

    Rk lacks burst single target healing, has pure aoe healing in general, no good buffs, or debuffs and no real in-combat res. Untill these things are fixed, I don't see Rk as a good alround healer.

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arabani View Post
    It's pretty much the same as with Captain. RK was a good healer until Helm's Deep when developers abandoned the old class concept of one holistic class and switched to three separate lines inside every class, destroying most of the classes in the process. RK lost a lot of additional abilities that made him a good healer (group wards/damage reduction against certain types of damage, group damage reduction and redirect, interrupt immunity, several debuffs and croud control spells). He was left basically with bare minimum of heals which were mostly hots. It was enought when we had low health and damage numbers and additional abilities in the kit, but after HD is was worse and worse until Mordor, obsolite and so on. There was a small buff to healing numbers around a year ago, but RK perfomance declined rapidlay again.

    Rk lacks burst single target healing, has pure aoe healing in general, no good buffs, or debuffs and no real in-combat res. Untill these things are fixed, I don't see Rk as a good alround healer.
    Thats exactly how it feels..

    And there are many more builds that still don’t function in groups since tge helmsdeep upgrade...

    If you go the route if traitlines, you need to ballance classes based on their main tole in groups.. so all 4 healer specs should perform on the same level. Or at least be a viable choice in all situations.

    Most classes these days only have a single good working trait line.. that they are expected to play.. i.e red rk, red warden, blue minstrel, red captain, and so on...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Bachus View Post
    Thats exactly how it feels..

    And there are many more builds that still don’t function in groups since tge helmsdeep upgrade...

    If you go the route if traitlines, you need to ballance classes based on their main tole in groups.. so all 4 healer specs should perform on the same level. Or at least be a viable choice in all situations.

    Most classes these days only have a single good working trait line.. that they are expected to play.. i.e red rk, red warden, blue minstrel, red captain, and so on...
    Trait trees aren't at fault for rk healing nerf, they could have just let all damage prevention skills and cool downs but they removed them completely. It annoys me because rk only need to get all old skills back, tweak values or buffs of current skills and maybe add a new in combat rezz. It's easy to code, test and implement but they're just ignoring it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    Trait trees aren't at fault for rk healing nerf, they could have just let all damage prevention skills and cool downs but they removed them completely. It annoys me because rk only need to get all old skills back, tweak values or buffs of current skills and maybe add a new in combat rezz. It's easy to code, test and implement but they're just ignoring it.
    Seems to me that class ballance is currently an aftertought in the development, as it doesn’t bring any direct money..

    But yes i agree, bring back all thise skills and ballance around them, much more fun

 

 

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