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  1. #1
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    Soloing epic battles

    I see many posts about epic battle difficulty that have been made over the past few years. I don't, however, find any official responses to any of it.

    I'm just up to that part of the story and tried to solo Helm's Dike. First attempt was a complete failure and I learned that even trying to complete any of the secondary objectives that pop up is not only doomed, it greatly reduces the chance to complete the instance.

    I finally squeaked by on a bronze for the main objective by doing nothing but aim and fire the ballistae on either side. It was the most brutally boring and stressful thing I think I have ever encountered in the game.

    Now, I'm told that once I gain a few ranks in one of the trees things get better. Maybe that is the case, but I thought the skills would start off with something workable and the skill trees would improve on that, rather than starting with impossible and grinding your rear off to work up to adequate.

    I am trying to give SSG the benefit of the doubt and say this is because the battles are not tuned correctly given changes in skill balance over the past year as opposed to because promotion points are sold in the Store. Given the aforementioned forum comments about difficulty, however, I do wonder a little.

    If SSG isn't just pusing cash shop sales, maybe epic battles will get a revamp once the legendary servers reach Helm's Deep in however long?

  2. #2
    I've always had a difficult time with the Epic Battles. Just a different learning curve than the rest of the game mechanics I guess. Most of the characters I play with are at or below 55th level, but after a couple of years, or so, three of them are over 200 promotion points, well before the storyline hits us with the necessity to succeed in the battles. It just takes a bit of time, I guess is what I am saying. An Epic Battle, here or there with friends, seems to add up after some years.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by StinkyGreene View Post
    I've always had a difficult time with the Epic Battles. Just a different learning curve than the rest of the game mechanics I guess. Most of the characters I play with are at or below 55th level, but after a couple of years, or so, three of them are over 200 promotion points, well before the storyline hits us with the necessity to succeed in the battles. It just takes a bit of time, I guess is what I am saying. An Epic Battle, here or there with friends, seems to add up after some years.
    I am not saying we need to be able to rack up promotion points extremely quickly, but if the intended progression for the epic battles is to start them long before they appear in the story just so you can be ready (potentially years) later, the system is still broken in my opinion.

    Thank you, though, for some hope that I'll eventually get through it. Especially since I am not buying any points from the Store! :P

  4. #4
    As you found out, it is possible to solo them, but you just need to ignore the side quests and just stay alive if your goal is to move through the epic story line, which requires you to finish each one at least once.

    I've done it on 2 characters so far when they reached that point in the epic line. I did not enjoy them, and didn't rack up any meaningful points. I wish that there had been another way to see those iconic battles but we take what we can get. At least you can get through them minimally so that the story line continues.

    Many people don't like the fact that it introduces a completely new mechanic that has no relationship to the character that's been built up to that point. I guess some have liked them.

  5. #5
    For me the biggest problem is that these battles block the end of volume 3 of the epic story. I got 3 or 4 of my characters through and just can't anymore. just thinking about doing them has me turn away from the game. They also seem to have gotten harder for whatever reason.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occum View Post
    As you found out, it is possible to solo them, but you just need to ignore the side quests and just stay alive if your goal is to move through the epic story line, which requires you to finish each one at least once.

    I've done it on 2 characters so far when they reached that point in the epic line. I did not enjoy them, and didn't rack up any meaningful points. I wish that there had been another way to see those iconic battles but we take what we can get. At least you can get through them minimally so that the story line continues.

    Many people don't like the fact that it introduces a completely new mechanic that has no relationship to the character that's been built up to that point. I guess some have liked them.
    I don't mind the new mechanic, though I can see where those players are coming from. The same issue is usually brought up for session play and mounted battle skills. For me, I just want the new mechanic to work. I like session play as a storytelling tool and I'd probably like the Helm's Dike epic battle for the same reason if it were not so brutal and spread out. I know the whole point is that the scope is bigger than, say, a skirmish, but the scaling on those worked so well and the scaling on these seems way out of whack.

    Quote Originally Posted by wispsong View Post
    For me the biggest problem is that these battles block the end of volume 3 of the epic story. I got 3 or 4 of my characters through and just can't anymore. just thinking about doing them has me turn away from the game. They also seem to have gotten harder for whatever reason.
    Given that they are first available at level 10 (!), I have wondered whether some players tried them at that point and were turned off the game because of it. Hopefully not many, but I suppose I could not blame them for being worried about future gameplay.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    I see many posts about epic battle difficulty ... I'm just up to that part of the story and tried to solo Helm's Dike. First attempt was a complete failure ... I'm told that once I gain a few ranks in one of the trees things get better. ...
    I think the issue is Helm's Dike, not really epic battles in general.

    Epic Battles get unlocked early on, and they level-adjust your character, so I guess some people have been earning ranks in EBs since their hobbits were delivering spoiled pies to Hobbiton. But for me (and it sounds like for you too) we don't want to jump the storyline up to Helm's Deep or Pelennor Fields when our characters are just getting started.

    So what happens to people like us? We don't encounter EBs until we actually reach Helm's Deep in the main game. As a result our first Epic is Helm's Dike, which happens to be one of the hardest to solo. It's stupid that it works out this way, and it gives people a horrible impression of Epic Battles which can in fact be quite fun.

    Basically what you did is right. Just survive Helm's Dike as best you can. Then when you move on, the following battles are much easier and more fun. I enjoyed The Deeping Wall, since I was adding ranks to Engineer and got to play with traps and siege weapons.

    Epics can be really fun, but yes they are pretty much separate from everything you've been building up your character to do. View them like a recurring mini-game, and that gives a better perspective. The loot's pretty great too.

  8. #8
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    Epics are catch-22. Need promo points to do well, need to do well to get promo points.
    Providing a way out via store is well... detestable.
    Not only that, but players first run across HD battles, where those promo points are especially important. The later battles (Pelargir/MT) are far less dependent on them.
    Helms Dike in particular. If you can dismantle all those useless barricades and place them in actual mob paths and upgrade them, then set all commanders to 2H, attackers all get shredded with zero player input. But if you lack ability to move barricades, you will most likely get overrun.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halphast View Post
    I think the issue is Helm's Dike, not really epic battles in general.

    Epic Battles get unlocked early on, and they level-adjust your character, so I guess some people have been earning ranks in EBs since their hobbits were delivering spoiled pies to Hobbiton. But for me (and it sounds like for you too) we don't want to jump the storyline up to Helm's Deep or Pelennor Fields when our characters are just getting started.

    So what happens to people like us? We don't encounter EBs until we actually reach Helm's Deep in the main game. As a result our first Epic is Helm's Dike, which happens to be one of the hardest to solo. It's stupid that it works out this way, and it gives people a horrible impression of Epic Battles which can in fact be quite fun.

    Basically what you did is right. Just survive Helm's Dike as best you can. Then when you move on, the following battles are much easier and more fun. I enjoyed The Deeping Wall, since I was adding ranks to Engineer and got to play with traps and siege weapons.

    Epics can be really fun, but yes they are pretty much separate from everything you've been building up your character to do. View them like a recurring mini-game, and that gives a better perspective. The loot's pretty great too.
    Encouraged a little by this, I went back and tried the 2nd epic battle, Deeping Wall. It was a bit better in that the area seemed to be more compact, but there were still multiple frustrating issues with it and the same thing happened. I tried doing even one of the secondary objectives and as soon as I did that I failed the whole thing.

    Kicking ladders and cutting grappling hooks need to progress MUCH more quickly. I see where some things take time like winching back a catapult, but other tasks need to be faster or they are just frustrating. And I don't care whether I'll be able to do it faster at rank 3, 5, 7, whatever. If it is this bad at the start it is just bad period.

    And, speaking of the catapult, I got exactly ONE shot off before it was destroyed. And that was working as quickly as the progress circles allowed. Pretty much just a waste of time there. And repairing it? That would have taken 30 minutes of waiting and watching the progress go 'round at the rate it was going. Again, I don't care if it gets to the tolerable range later on. No reason for it to be this bad right out of the gate.

    One of the secondary objectives did not seem to have any marker for where to go and there was not a good description in the alert, so I never even found it. the other was goblins coming into the tower and blowing thinsg up. Not only could I not stop the goblins, even if I clicked on the explosive, it blew up long before the progress bar finished.

    The whole thing, while maybe a little better than the first battle, was an exercise in frustration. I am sure I'll be able to get past it with the absolute minimum success possible on only the main objective like I did the first, but really? This is good gameplay?

    I don't expect to get silver/gold/platinum without time spent on gaining points and leveling things up. I get that. But tune the darn thing so that bronze across the board is at least possible. THAT is the absolute minimum I expect from a good design.

    I will try again, but my opinion on epic battles has not yet been changed.
    I see the potential for them to be fun, but it is like when I try a new MMO that is pretty bad at the start and someone tells me it is better at endgame. Nope. Never going to make it to the "good" stuff if I can't tolerate the path to get there.
    Last edited by Thornglen; Jul 16 2019 at 01:00 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    Epics are catch-22. Need promo points to do well, need to do well to get promo points.
    Providing a way out via store is well... detestable.
    Not only that, but players first run across HD battles, where those promo points are especially important. The later battles (Pelargir/MT) are far less dependent on them.
    Helms Dike in particular. If you can dismantle all those useless barricades and place them in actual mob paths and upgrade them, then set all commanders to 2H, attackers all get shredded with zero player input. But if you lack ability to move barricades, you will most likely get overrun.
    This is what I am talking about. At the start we should at least have the ability to be competent. Not great, not enough to even get to silver, but something. Enough to be able to try for a secondary objective without the whole things crumbling immediately. Then, when we gain points and go back, we can do better. And then better again. Until we can try for that platinum at the top.

    I can't even find one diary or forum response from the devs about this. Something to explain why it is the way it is and whether it is currently as they intend it to be.

    Life has required me to take breaks from the game over the years. sometimes long breaks. But this is the first time since I started playing in 2008 that the thought has crossed my mind to actually quit.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    Encouraged a little by this, I went back and tried the 2nd epic battle, Deeping Wall. It was a bit better in that the area seemed to be more compact, but there were still multiple frustrating issues with it and the same thing happened. I tried doing even one of the secondary objectives and as soon as I did that I failed the whole thing.
    It sounds like you're spreading yourself too thin. If you can accept that Epic Battles are simply not designed to give success across the board on your first try, I'd suggest ignoring secondary objectives and focus on the main objectives.

    For me the Deeping Wall was challenging but still fun- maybe I just got lucky and my strategy happened to be the one that works best? I just constantly kicked ladders and cut grappling hooks- yes it's very slow, but every one you remove cuts off one more entry for enemies, which helps. Yes, it does get faster as you level- I took levels in engineer, and pretty quickly was having much more success with the ladders. They're easier to level up than grappling hooks, so I started just pushing down every ladder and removing a grappling hook or two when I had time. It was much more manageable much more quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    I don't expect to get silver/gold/platinum without time spent on gaining points and leveling things up. I get that. But tune the darn thing so that bronze across the board is at least possible. THAT is the absolute minimum I expect from a good design.
    I agree that EBs shouldn't be so hard from the start- ESPECIALLY Helm's Dike- I think that one's unreasonable. But as for what makes a good design, I think the expectation is just different. EBs seem to be designed to let first-time players scrape by on the main challenge, and build up from there on subsequent play-throughs. You personally would prefer at minimum to get all bronze across the board, but it's not a design flaw that this isn't the case.

    Rather than replaying a level that has frustrated you already, another option that might give you more success: since there are several EBs in Helm's Deep, why not slog through all of them as best you can and gain what ranks you're able to gain just completing the base objectives? That way when you're done you can move on with the game, and can always replay EBs as you please.

    On the idea that buying points in the store is required- no it isn't. Maybe it requires purchase if you want greater success on your first time through, but I've never spent a penny nor a Lotro-Point on epic battles and have enjoyed them. Different player, different preferences I suppose, but EBs are certainly not locked behind a paywall.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    This is what I am talking about. At the start we should at least have the ability to be competent. Not great, not enough to even get to silver, but something. Enough to be able to try for a secondary objective without the whole things crumbling immediately. Then, when we gain points and go back, we can do better. And then better again. Until we can try for that platinum at the top.

    I can't even find one diary or forum response from the devs about this. Something to explain why it is the way it is and whether it is currently as they intend it to be.

    Life has required me to take breaks from the game over the years. sometimes long breaks. But this is the first time since I started playing in 2008 that the thought has crossed my mind to actually quit.

    The problem is secondary objects though. Some are required to get through but even worse, skipping them doesn't guarantee a win either.
    There is also the problem of not knowing what to do and if you know, it is not always possible.

    There is to much emphasis on the traits, you can never out level them, they are to complicated, and they are just plain boring and therefore way to long. It is sad that such great story is locked behind them. I got 4 characters through with help from others who know what they are doing but don't get it solo. I just can't bring myself to do them again.

    And this is from my experience and how I see them. Imo, the story wouldn't have suffered at all if I had come in with the relief forces

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halphast View Post
    I agree that EBs shouldn't be so hard from the start- ESPECIALLY Helm's Dike- I think that one's unreasonable. But as for what makes a good design, I think the expectation is just different. EBs seem to be designed to let first-time players scrape by on the main challenge, and build up from there on subsequent play-throughs. You personally would prefer at minimum to get all bronze across the board, but it's not a design flaw that this isn't the case.
    Thank you for the additional perspective on the epic battles. to be clear, I was not saying that I should get bronze on my first play through the battle. Just that it should be possible. From what I have seen and from what others have said, no amount of perfect play will get you anywhere close to success if you try to solo the side objectives without a few ranks under your belt.

    There are a few reasons, in my opinion, why this is not a great design. Especially when compared to the older sibling of the epic battles, the skirmishes.

    Skirmishes were great for my gameplay when they came out. Scaled with level and group size, had deeds to complete, provided progression through multiple difficulties. I would not have expected to be able to complete a T2 or T3 skirmish with flying colors right at the start, and even on T1 I had a couple failures as I worked out where to be when and how to manage the area. But they always felt possible to complete. I was able to learn and go back and do better on all the objectives and encounters with more practice rather than more power. If there was frustration, it was usually the kind that pushed me to be better rather than held me back.

    That was me, though, and maybe there were people who did want or need more power to handle the early skirmishes. That was technically possible (though I personally would not find it fun gameplay) by gaining marks every time you tried. Marks were not exactly capped or scarce, though it may have taken time to level your buffs and/or your soldier's skills.

    Compare this to epic battles. As you go through the battle, the game prompts you with the side objectives and up to this point in LOTRO there would have been no reason to think that going for those side objectives would mean a near-automatic failure of the main objective. No tutorial or warning tells a player new to the battles that the way to progress at the start (solo) is to laser-focus on the main objective and getting by with a minimal win. Like with the skirmishes, I would have expected it to feel possible to get the main and side objectives with more practice rather than more power. Again, not even silver at that point, but something.

    As for the gaining more power, in epic battles it is tied to a "currency" that feels scarce. It isn't like you can get more points by getting bronze on the main objective (or even the side objectives) more than once. To get more points you need to do better. As someone said above, epic battles have the catch 22 of needing promotion points to do well and needing to do well to get promotion points.

    It is the combination of those things that make the epic battles feel like a frustration that drives me away where I want them to be a challenge that drives me forward.


    One REALLY strange addendum to all this, though. I went back to the epic battles panel and saw that the objective I could not even find during the Deeping Wall battle (Securing The Culvert) was marked as not only completed, but completed at platinum. How the heck did that happen? I never found where to go for it. I mean, I'm not turning down the extra 4 promotion points, but I feel like I cheated somehow.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wispsong View Post
    The problem is secondary objects though. Some are required to get through but even worse, skipping them doesn't guarantee a win either.
    There is also the problem of not knowing what to do and if you know, it is not always possible.

    There is to much emphasis on the traits, you can never out level them, they are to complicated, and they are just plain boring and therefore way to long. It is sad that such great story is locked behind them. I got 4 characters through with help from others who know what they are doing but don't get it solo. I just can't bring myself to do them again.

    And this is from my experience and how I see them. Imo, the story wouldn't have suffered at all if I had come in with the relief forces
    This is what I fear is the experience lots of players have.

    I still think epic battles could be great for the game and great for storytelling for ALL players, but it would take a bit of tweaking on the solo/duo level and I have not the first clue how difficult that would be to balance while still leaving more of a challenge to get higher grade completions of the objectives.

  15. #15
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    About "Securing the Culvert" : occasionally it bugs and mobs get stuck on the outside, unable to go in and attack the workers. Who then proceed to place their stones without harassment.

    Overall, I would say initial intent for BBs was to run them as group. Any battle that has a 6-man version is significantly easier. 6-man Pelargir is cakewalk. I.e. final section every player can bring a barricade from the second section. One frustration factor about things taking too long or cooldowns taking forever to reset: multiple players can contribute to same task, players can alternate cooldowns, etc. Overall this means players can knock out platinum on side missions quite easily, racking up those points.
    These days, you almost never see LFFs for HD battles.

  16. #16
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    I don't like them. But my main reason for not enjoying them is the length of time they take with no actual benefit if you fail. Currently, if you do fail, you've technically wasted so much time for nothing. This happened to me a couple of times at Deeping Wall on a couple of characters which left me walking away from the game even if it was just for a day or so.

    I now just do them when I have to for the trait points - I never do them for enjoyment

    If we could gain some XP from the mobs then that sense of wasted time wouldn't be there if there's a failure.


  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    About "Securing the Culvert" : occasionally it bugs and mobs get stuck on the outside, unable to go in and attack the workers. Who then proceed to place their stones without harassment.
    Ok, that makes sense. So it just has a bug and I greatly benefitted from said bug. I think I'll just take it as the game apologizing to me for the rest of the epic battle.

    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    Overall, I would say initial intent for BBs was to run them as group. Any battle that has a 6-man version is significantly easier. 6-man Pelargir is cakewalk. I.e. final section every player can bring a barricade from the second section. One frustration factor about things taking too long or cooldowns taking forever to reset: multiple players can contribute to same task, players can alternate cooldowns, etc. Overall this means players can knock out platinum on side missions quite easily, racking up those points.
    These days, you almost never see LFFs for HD battles.
    Agreed. The epic battles are clearly tuned to be run as a group. Which is why the solo/duo mode might need to operate slightly differently or have something akin to the inspiration buff that earlier parts of the epic storyline get when they are intended for a group. Maybe call it "Panicked Greatness" and have it buff movement speed and the rate at which you can do certain things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chouxbun View Post
    I don't like them. But my main reason for not enjoying them is the length of time they take with no actual benefit if you fail. Currently, if you do fail, you've technically wasted so much time for nothing. This happened to me a couple of times at Deeping Wall on a couple of characters which left me walking away from the game even if it was just for a day or so.

    I now just do them when I have to for the trait points - I never do them for enjoyment

    If we could gain some XP from the mobs then that sense of wasted time wouldn't be there if there's a failure.
    This is a good point, too. I don't know if I'd want XP out of it since there are already so many ways to gain XP in the game, but I could certainly go for a "reward" that would maybe give the player a buff if the solo run is tried again. So you get a small boost to encourage another try.

  18. #18
    It’s odd that the order they’re presented is essentially backwards from a mechanic POV. The Rohan ones are heavily, very very heavily dependent on having some EB trait points to do well. The Gondor ones less so. It’s very odd.

    That said, they are really designed to be done with 2 people to do well. It’s worth your time to try to grab someone to run a duo. If you’re running them just to advance the story, don’t bother with the side quests especially if you’re solo. It’s just not worth your time.

    I personally enjoy them, but I also understand why many don’t.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    And, speaking of the catapult, I got exactly ONE shot off before it was destroyed. And that was working as quickly as the progress circles allowed. Pretty much just a waste of time there. And repairing it? That would have taken 30 minutes of waiting and watching the progress go 'round at the rate it was going. Again, I don't care if it gets to the tolerable range later on. No reason for it to be this bad right out of the gate..
    Having the catapult destroyed is entirely preventable. At the beginning of each wave, you need to immediately go up to the catapult and start taking out the enemy trebuchets. Even with 0 promotion points, you should be able to do this before your catapult gets significantly damaged.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoBasilisk View Post
    Having the catapult destroyed is entirely preventable. At the beginning of each wave, you need to immediately go up to the catapult and start taking out the enemy trebuchets. Even with 0 promotion points, you should be able to do this before your catapult gets significantly damaged.
    Ok. I can see where that's a possible thing to do. Part of my issue running it the first time was not knowing where things were (and unlike the first battle, there is no grace period that can be used to explore a little before the start), so I probably got to the catapult later than I should have.

    Also, my frustration meter was already near the red zone because of Helm's Dike, so I did not go right back in to try again.

    When I go back in I'll give it another shot and go straight to the catapult. Thanks.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    I see many posts about epic battle difficulty that have been made over the past few years. I don't, however, find any official responses to any of it.

    I'm just up to that part of the story and tried to solo Helm's Dike....
    Helm's Dike in particular is one that is much easier the more engineering you have. As you've already noted, forget any of the side quests and simply try to eek out a bare survival win. Once you have some engineering, you can spend some time prep'ing before you start the battle. Once you set up multiple barricades in each of the lanes the Orcs come up, the soldiers should be able to hold them without taking too many losses. It also helps if you set up a catapult or ballista on each side and hammer the crowds of Orcs down below while they're waiting to come up the lanes. It also helps a lot if you can find a kind soul with some engineering to set it up for you the first time. Once you've managed to bootstrap yourself up to a certain level, you can farm Dike in particular to increase your ranking further.

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    Ok, so almost a month later I finally worked up the will to go back into LOTRO's epic battles to see if I could manage to continue the story.

    Starting with the Deeping Wall again, I followed NeoBasilisk's advice on the catapult and managed to make things a bit easier. It did bring up another area where the battles could stand to improve, though. When trying to get a good look at the ground and where the orcs are coming from, you often need to fight the camera and the results can be awkward at best. Can be done, though, and with the enemy catapults taken out, I was able to squeak by with a minimal victory.
    (With, I think, a bronze or silver for the side objective for "Vandals in the Tower" though I did not even attempt to go in there and defend this time. Whatever. You do you, epic battle. )

    I got through Deeping-coomb in one shot. It was a tiny bit confusing on where it wanted me to be at various times, but compared to the others, this one was a breeze.

    Then came the Glittering Caves. Oh my goodness. Even if Helm's Dike had not made it clear already, the Glittering Caves would show the necessity of having a map. I am directionally challenged, I get that. But still. I spent much of my time in there just trying to get from point a to point b (and that was only once I determined roughly where those points were, given that I had only the marks on the minimap as a guide). Again, I managed a bronze on the first time through, but I have ZERO idea how that happened. Maybe the game just took pity on me?

    In addition to location confusion (seriously, I was even struggling to get out of the caves after the battle instance was over), the Caves battle introduced me to yet another frustration. As I was running around like a mad bear, I apparently went places the game really did not want me to be. At which point I hit an invisible wall, turned around, and happily went on my merry way...NOPE, just kidding. I died. Repeatedly. I get that some areas are going to be out of bounds, but holy heck there was not much warning of that (can anyone tell me if there are indications in the game itself? I am colorblind and maybe missed something that would be obvious to others? has happened before).

    And finally the Hornburg. By this time I had a few points to spend in the Engineering tree, so maybe that helped. I never did find out whether the giant ballista or catapult could be of use, since neither seemed to be aimable anywhere the enemies were marching, but I ws able to keep enough soldiers alive that I tried to find the side objectives again. No clue at all where the "Bring Down The Siege Ladders" one was found, but I did go to "Protecting the Gatehouse" and was able to get a bronze or silver there. The rest of the battle was just a slog of orcs and ladders and grappling hooks that seemed to go on forever. Again, there may have been other tools that could be used to speed things up, but I did not know what they were.

    It feels good to be on the other side of all that mess. I won't say I'm giving up on epic battles entirely. I'll probably go back in to duo them with a friend at some point on this character or another as we work through the story again. But it is not something I am necessarily looking forward to and I really do hope SSG can give improving these battles some actual attention down the line.

    Thank you all in this thread who provided help and advice, or even just let me know I was not the only one to feel this way about the battles.

  23. #23
    Grats! Glad you got through the BB's. I did 2 of them then stopped like you I just couldn't bring up enough interest to continue. That character now sits in limbo until I get the urge to tackle them again. I made the mistake of looking ahead at the other BB further down the epic list. It just took out any interest I had to continue to play the book. Maybe another day but not real soon.
    I dance for cookies!

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,448
    I know what you mean about not being sure where to go at times and getting turned around in the caves! Again, it helps if you can do it duo and have someone guide you. That way you can just follow them and assist wherever you need to be when you get there.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    East coast, USA
    Posts
    2,270
    Quote Originally Posted by DKenny View Post
    I know what you mean about not being sure where to go at times and getting turned around in the caves! Again, it helps if you can do it duo and have someone guide you. That way you can just follow them and assist wherever you need to be when you get there.
    Running the epic battles as a duo would, I am sure, be a better experience. Especially if one of the players already knows what to do and is familiar with the map.

    That can be said for anything, though. What if a dungeon was not only difficult for first-time players (which is to be expected), but confusing and frustrating? Like, what-the-heck-does-the-game-want-from-me confusing and keyboard-smashing frustrating. Plus, no hope of just coming back later when you are stronger because only by winning can you gain skills.

    That dungeon would certainly be a better experience if you first went in with a group that had already navigated the challenges and knew what to do, but if it generated the number of "I never want to have to play that again" types of responses as epic battles seem to have done over the years, I'd expect at least a few questions about how that dungeon was designed to come up somewhere in the dev team discussions.

    So, like I said, I hope the battles get another look, at least when Helm's Deep is planned for the legendary servers. I really want to like these as much as I like skirmishes and the rest of the game. They will never be to the liking of all players, I'm sure, but maybe they can move away from the kind of reaction that causes a player's real life morale to be chipped away by dread.

 

 

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