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  1. #1
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    Is there any point swapping 2nd age for 1st age?

    Hi,

    I have three 2nd age imbued LIs for my level 106 captain (1H sword, 2H sword and emblem) and the greatsword is at the point where I need to start using crystals to improve the DPS legacy. Other legacies haven’t hit the soft cap yet. I followed all the advice on what to do pre-imbue.

    Before I go any further with these, is there a massive difference between 2nd and 1st age, and is it worth starting again with 1st age items? I have heard that a 2nd can be as good as a 1st in the end, but if so, what would be the point in crafting a 1st ager?

    Many thanks in advance for any responses
    “...and he lived happily ever after, to the end of his days”

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by TheArtilleryman View Post
    Hi,

    I have three 2nd age imbued LIs for my level 106 captain (1H sword, 2H sword and emblem) and the greatsword is at the point where I need to start using crystals to improve the DPS legacy. Other legacies haven’t hit the soft cap yet. I followed all the advice on what to do pre-imbue.

    Before I go any further with these, is there a massive difference between 2nd and 1st age, and is it worth starting again with 1st age items? I have heard that a 2nd can be as good as a 1st in the end, but if so, what would be the point in crafting a 1st ager?

    Many thanks in advance for any responses
    I think the maximum DPS for most classes (not all) is around 1100, and it's lower for 2nd age. Whether it makes enough difference to bother you, I don't know.

    Before you start spending Mithril and putting a lot of time into getting Empowerment scrolls, you might want to just give a shout in world chat and ask to see someone's imbued 2nd age maxed out. Either someone will be on who has one, or you'll get a lot of explanations for why people prefer first age.

    I had no trouble getting the items required for a first age, so that's what I have. Considering the amount of effort it takes to complete the LI, I think it's not worth it to work that hard on a 2nd age. The Blemished Elder King drops in Retaking Pelargir (BB) about once a week for me. So I end up selling them now. But right now there haven't been that many Pela groups because people are doing summer fest or working on virtues.

    Don't drive yourself crazy with "I must somehow get lots of starlit crystals to drop!" You'll get a few drops, and a few from quests like the epic questline, and you'll be able to buy a few from bartering... but unless you're grinding the endgame content, in groups, you'll probably be paying mithril to finish the Primary legacy (DPS or Tactical Damage). So calculate the cost and decide how much you want to invest per month until you meet the goal. it took me about four months to complete my first level 100 imbued LI's (two of them) on my main. The later ones are easier because you can run both characters through the dailies.

    I'm not the best at math, but I'm pretty sure the Primary legacy is cheaper if you buy to unlock it in mithril than it is if you buy the sets of 3 crystals. Somebody confirm that?

  3. #3
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    Thanks!

    I isn’t an issue getting the items - I already have a 1st age greatsword and emblem in my pack that I crafted a couple of days ago. I wasn’t sure whether to use them or stick them on the AH. But if ultimately they will end up stronger, I might as well redo those at this stage before I get too far in. I might not bother with the 1H sword as the DPS won’t matter too much for the tanking setup.

    Actually, I don’t think the grind will be too bad. I have been doing the FI and an epic battle or two each day in between other quests and it’s pretty easy to get the crystals using stars of merit. One thing I am determined not to do is buy anything for the LIs as I have better things to spend my LP on, like quest packs and the new expansion (when it gets here).

    Thanks for the advice - time to start constructing my 1st agers
    “...and he lived happily ever after, to the end of his days”

  4. #4
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    Pretty sure there is next to no difference between TA/SA/FA post-imbue...

  5. #5
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    Last I heard, 1st/2nd/3rd agers all end up in the same place when maxed out and imbued, but 2nd agers require fewer crystals/scrolls to max out than 3rd, and 1st agers require fewer than 2nd agers. So a 1st ager will give you a head start on the process, but if you already have a 2nd ager in a good spot, you would just be pointlessly restarting the treadmill.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, as stated above.
    The only real difference is that you will need more scrolls to max out the item, but the increase is not huge.
    ............................ missed a putt.........................At a Dead & Co. show on a Mexican beach............ another Dead & Co. show at the same beach a year later
    ......................................................
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  7. #7
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    Hmmm...

    I would have used 1A items in the first place, but the elder king symbols just weren’t dropping and I didn’t have much gold so I just gave up and use 2As. Then all of a sudden the other day I got three elder king symbols drop almost at once and thought maybe I should change. I haven’t done anything with this yet - still using the blue items, and I’ve got a bunch of collected crystals and scrolls ready to be used. Maybe I’ll just crack on with what I have then. Perhaps the auction house will be the best place for those 1As after all...
    “...and he lived happily ever after, to the end of his days”

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    Pretty sure there is next to no difference between TA/SA/FA post-imbue...
    What about weapon type?
    For example, at one time there was no difference for one-handed swords, but a difference in passives for two-handed swords. Has it changed?

  9. #9
    When you imbue an LI, the legacies after imbuing will be a little higher on a 1st Age, then 2nd Age, then 3rd Age, so you'll need more scrolls of empowerment to max out a 3rd Age LI's legacies compared to a 2nd or 1st Age LI.

    For the DPS legacy (or it's equivalent on a non-weapon LI), all LI's (of the same type) can reach the same DPS, so a maxed 3rd Age LI can have the same DPS as a maxed 1st Age LI, but you'll need more crystals for the 3rd Age LI compared to the 1st Age LI.

    For a 1-hand LI (or any non-weapon LI) the only difference between 1st Age, 2nd Age and 3rd Age is how many crystals and scrolls you need to max the LI. For 2-hand LI's, 1st Age LI's have the highest passive stats, then 2nd Age, then 3rd Age, and there's no way to change that. The difference in passive stats is not huge, but it is there is that sort of detail is important to you.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarethB View Post
    When you imbue an LI, the legacies after imbuing will be a little higher on a 1st Age, then 2nd Age, then 3rd Age, so you'll need more scrolls of empowerment to max out a 3rd Age LI's legacies compared to a 2nd or 1st Age LI.

    For the DPS legacy (or it's equivalent on a non-weapon LI), all LI's (of the same type) can reach the same DPS, so a maxed 3rd Age LI can have the same DPS as a maxed 1st Age LI, but you'll need more crystals for the 3rd Age LI compared to the 1st Age LI.

    For a 1-hand LI (or any non-weapon LI) the only difference between 1st Age, 2nd Age and 3rd Age is how many crystals and scrolls you need to max the LI. For 2-hand LI's, 1st Age LI's have the highest passive stats, then 2nd Age, then 3rd Age, and there's no way to change that. The difference in passive stats is not huge, but it is there is that sort of detail is important to you.
    This is really clear, thank you. For me, I would be happy then sticking to 2A as I have already put a fair bit of work in.

    Just one more question - as a captain, am I likely to get turned down for groups at cap if I have 2A items? Are people picky enough to do that?
    “...and he lived happily ever after, to the end of his days”

  11. #11
    I have five toons using imbued LI's. Most of their LI's are 2nd Age, with one 1st Age LI per toon. It's going to take a very major change to how LI's work before I'll seriously consider starting a new set of imbued LI's on those toons.

    Let's see, my mini has a dps weapon and dps book, plus a healing weapon and healing book.
    My guard has a 2-hander for soloing, a 1-hander for tanking or to go sword & board when a solo situation gets hard, plus a belt.
    My champ, hunter and captain all have 2 LI's each. That's 13 imbued LI's, and none of them are maxed out although I'm getting close on a couple of my toons.

    With how much work it would take to get a new set of LI's up to where the current LI's are now, it's going to take a very serious reason to make me want to redo all that LI care and feeding for the same toons.

    My cappy is only up to Minas Tirith, I can't say how much demand there is at endgame for cappies right now, but I'd be very surprised if many people looking for a cappy are going to turn down someone with a 2nd Age instead of a 1st age, unless the LI hasn't been developed much since imbuing.
    Therina - Hobbit Guard Rongo - Hobbit Warden
    Frood - Man Minstrel Garmun - Man Captain
    Zorosi - Dwarf Champ Froodaroon - Elf Hunter
    Southern Defenders - Arkenstone (formerly Elendilmir)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarethB View Post
    ...
    My cappy is only up to Minas Tirith, I can't say how much demand there is at endgame for cappies right now, but I'd be very surprised if many people looking for a cappy are going to turn down someone with a 2nd Age instead of a 1st age, unless the LI hasn't been developed much since imbuing.
    Good to hear, thanks! Of course, the captain is mainly there for the buffs and skills rather than stats so that makes sense. Cheers
    “...and he lived happily ever after, to the end of his days”

  13. #13
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    LI age used to have quite a big impact on passive stats. Below is my post from a bit over 1 year ago where I cite the short tests I did on BR just before Mordor launched -- coincidentally using cappy LIs. I'm quite certain that SSG has somewhat streamlined the LI DPS legacy since that post, but I'm not sure whether they have done anything to passive stat scaling proportions. As you can see, some stats (Mitigations, Morale) got ~100% increase if you imbued 1st ager instead of 2nd or 3rd ager, whereas some (main stats, crit) got basically no benefit.

    Again, I want to emphasize that if they have done anything to passives since that, I'm not aware of it. This is just for reference, because sometimes the effect of LI age gets mixed up with the effect of using 0-3 star-lits before imbuing, and the latter doesn't make (or at least used not to make) any meaningful difference.

    Later in the thread* I also posted a comment (with pics!) on the issue of "Delving before or after imbuement?". I still see some players give wrong information on it on /world sometimes.


    * https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...58#post7822858

    Quote Originally Posted by TharbadThief View Post
    The max rank of those "Star-lit legacies" is 53. It is the same for all legendary items regardless of its age (1st, 2nd, 3rd age) or Star-lit crystals applied before imbuement. Applying all 3 before imbuing doesn't unlock any extra -- you just need the same amount more of them after imbuement, if you used fewer than 3 before the process.

    The only difference comes into play when your LI has passive stats, as e.g. 2-handed weapons or RK runestones, cappy emblems etc. have. Then there is a miniscule difference between "no star-lits used before imbuement" vs. "3 star-lits used before imbuement". But the difference really is very small, and doesn't even show in percentages at level cap. I don't dare to predict what the significance will be in future updates though...

    Below is a pic of my small test I did on Bullroarer just before Mordor went live. I wanted to see what the effect of star-lits would be in the new max rank of 53, from the previous 43:




    As far as I know, the passives are still the same, and the values are the same across all LI types (runestones, emblems etc.)

    You can also see that the effect of age is much bigger factor in imbued item passives, and that it's worth it to always imbue 1st agers, even if you aren't an obsessed min/maxer.

    My thoughts about the LI system in general: I really hope there will be a total overhaul in the near future. This "passives lottery", legacy changes in imbuement, bloated amount of consumables, and many other things we now have, is ridiculous.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boraxxe View Post
    The only real difference is that you will need more scrolls to max out the item, but the increase is not huge.
    I've been using SA items on my alts. And the stats are comparable and sometimes identical to FA. Could I afford FA for all my toons? Sure. After 10 years I have more gold than I know how to spend. I'm a tightwad in real life and play the game the same way. I use Scrolls before imbue then Mithril Coins after. Just took my Burg alt to 120 and maxed out her sword along the way. Close enough to an FA that I don't think it matters.

    Addendum = Others might disagree and they might be right.
    Last edited by DarthKeryx; Jul 18 2019 at 07:52 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthKeryx View Post
    I've been using SA items on my alts. And the stats are comparable and sometimes identical to FA. Could I afford FA for all my toons? Sure. After 10 years I have more gold than I know how to spend. I'm a tightwad in real life and play the game the same way. I use Scrolls before imbue then Mithril Coins after. Just took my Burg alt to 120 and maxed out her sword along the way. Close enough to an FA that I don't think it matters.
    Good to know, especially as I have now carried on adding scrolls and crystals to my 2A!

    What I think I am going to do though is make another emblem, so I have one for solo/DPS use and one with totally different legacies for tank/healer. For that one I might as well use the raw 1A emblem I have kicking around and put the 1A sword on the AH.
    “...and he lived happily ever after, to the end of his days”

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilan View Post
    Last I heard, 1st/2nd/3rd agers all end up in the same place when maxed out and imbued, but 2nd agers require fewer crystals/scrolls to max out than 3rd, and 1st agers require fewer than 2nd agers. So a 1st ager will give you a head start on the process, but if you already have a 2nd ager in a good spot, you would just be pointlessly restarting the treadmill.
    On that point though, is it even worth working on a 2A/3A legendary if you haven't put any work into them yet? Or is it better to just hoard your mats for a 1A in the long run?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by naarcx View Post
    On that point though, is it even worth working on a 2A/3A legendary if you haven't put any work into them yet? Or is it better to just hoard your mats for a 1A in the long run?
    My personal preference; once I start working on a legendary I just stay on it. It may take a little bit longer than if I had started on a FA, but once you get going there's little or no time savings switching in mid stream.
    If I happen on to a FA and it looks even semi-workable, then I feel lucky and will hang onto it until I can use it. But I have never deconned a lower age to start over.
    I'd imagine there are some folks that want very specific attributes. That's fine. To each his own.
    ............................ missed a putt.........................At a Dead & Co. show on a Mexican beach............ another Dead & Co. show at the same beach a year later
    ......................................................
    The real Boraxxe... wearing his "Get off my lawn!" face and his "I smoked my lawn" face, and yes, that's a banana, no, I'm not happy to see you.
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  18. #18
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    The only lasting advantage of the FA over SA is if it is an LI of the type with non-percentage passives. Those will always be better on the FA. However, otherwise a SA can reach the same max as a FA. It costs two extra crystals and a number of additional scrolls depending on what legacies you start with to get the SA to the same max as the FA.

 

 

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