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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    134

    Merge the remaining Servers to increase Player Population, especially in PvP

    So, I think it's no secret that the game's player base is shrinking more and more than ever, this is especially noticeable in PvP.

    Never have I seen more dead Ettenmoors than now and Osgiliath is only played/used by clubbers (well it's an awful PvP Map anyways).

    There are multiple factors that made players quit/become uninterested in PvP.

    1. Balance. The past updates, the Balance has been at its worst state ever.
    2. Gear Gap difference between well and badly equipped Freeps has never been bigger.
    3. Creeps are incredibly outdated and weak compared to well geared Freeps, just take a look at Reaver and Warleader.
    4. There is still no PvP armor for Level 120. This makes it much harder for badly geared Freeps to become stronger.
    5. The server performance has been getting worse and worse.
    6. SSG doesn't really care about PvP at all, there won't be changes in 2019 at least. At least make it fully Free2Play if there won't be changes.
    7. Some servers are basically dead.

    At least the last of these problems would be solved by merging the remaining Servers to create 1 EU and 1 NA server. Obviously, as a result of this, the performance would need to updated to make the game somehow playable.

    Any thoughts/opinions?

  2. #2
    Laurelin currently sits at around 400-600 players at peak and hasn't really changed at all population wise the past few years, from what I've seen. Laurelin PvMP generally is active in spurts that I recall, with it being active for a week or two, followed by a few weeks of quiet. Personally I feel that 400-600 players is fine for a server population and don't really see a need to change it.


    I would wait to do any server merges until a few months after Minas Morgul releases. Because Minas Morgul has the "Expansion" tag to it, there will surely be a significant number (I'd say several hundred. maybe a thousand or two) of players at least poking their head in to see whats what. Adding a few hundred to each server shouldn't cause many issues, but if they merge pre expansion and then a significant number of players return for the expansion you could have stability issues. And if Minas Morgul is at least semi decent then those players could stay.


    I wouldn't say SSG deosnt care about PvMP, they simply don't have the manpower to maintain both PvE and PvMP at an adequate level without if affecting the other. And with PvE being more important, and in a better state, PvMP gets left in the wayside.

    Maybe they could find time to squeeze some minor changes into the expansion, like a set of PvMP armor and some numbers changes. But SSG has said their plans this year are ambitious so who knows what going to happen.

  3. #3
    yep; no real reason to not have a single global server, except maybe the global chat, language; some ppl like the RP only
    get a cloud server with amazon or microsoft or other
    use layers so ppl aren't bunched together on one screen

    you could have a RP layer for those who want to voluntarily limit exchanges to RP only

    of course that would mean overhauling their engine or something, coding, money

    certainly they could at least merge the servers down by 1/2

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    201
    We already got to point where EU and US players who care about pvp transfered to Evernight and Arkenstone. Merging servers would not change anything. Problem with freep population is VIP requirements to enter moors. Servers are so bad now that we can't have 60 people fighting same time in keep and you would like to have 2 servers? Slideshow 24/7

    Balance before changes to burgs and bears was best ever been, now it's gone back to mordor insanity with freeps gear and classes updates so in small population servers is really no point to waste time on creep. That with small % of freep population being VIPs making dead servers. Evernight action is depending of freeps will to show up. There is plenty of players they just decide to avoid when creeps play and wan't easy farming after 10 pm.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Snobs View Post
    Any thoughts/opinions?
    Permalag? No, thanks... Servers struggles when 20+ freeps stands at same area
    [Creep status: Ultra casual] | [Freep status: Retired since 2011] | LotRO since March 30, 2007 - Proud Game's Founder

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    212
    The population is dead in pvp, so yes, I vote 100% for a world transfer ... even if I have to pay 50 euros! I'm tired of pve and raid. it's always the same story .

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    L.A.
    Posts
    1,085
    Quote Originally Posted by Snobs View Post
    So, I think it's no secret that the game's player base is shrinking more and more than ever, this is especially noticeable in PvP.

    Never have I seen more dead Ettenmoors than now and Osgiliath is only played/used by clubbers (well it's an awful PvP Map anyways).

    There are multiple factors that made players quit/become uninterested in PvP.

    1. Balance. The past updates, the Balance has been at its worst state ever.
    2. Gear Gap difference between well and badly equipped Freeps has never been bigger.
    3. Creeps are incredibly outdated and weak compared to well geared Freeps, just take a look at Reaver and Warleader.
    4. There is still no PvP armor for Level 120. This makes it much harder for badly geared Freeps to become stronger.
    5. The server performance has been getting worse and worse.
    6. SSG doesn't really care about PvP at all, there won't be changes in 2019 at least. At least make it fully Free2Play if there won't be changes.
    7. Some servers are basically dead.

    At least the last of these problems would be solved by merging the remaining Servers to create 1 EU and 1 NA server. Obviously, as a result of this, the performance would need to updated to make the game somehow playable.

    Any thoughts/opinions?
    i see you r new n you propably dont know the history of LotRo PvP
    about the balance...... the problem is not the balance but that new people interested in PVP dont know how to play, they want everything delivered to them by sitting in a corner putting no effort....... or just pew pew.......
    this is not only LotRo problem, i see the same in other games n i will use an example(sorry lotro for talking about n other game)........ world of warships its a mostly pvp game n people doing the same!
    half team fighting while the rest stay in the back waiting for an easy kill.......... who wins? the team with the most players fighting, most of the times......
    about the gear gap....... yes you r right about it! the gap is huge and we, the freeps, have spoke out about it!
    about no3......no, i believe you r totally wrong on this its just people dont know their skills or/and, how to play in PvP, the bigger problem is the lack of good leaders n the will to follow the few stil in game.......
    about the armor.... do you really believe there is a need of new pvp armor sets???? i really dont think so, well maybe as an outfit coz the last one had really nice looks!!!its so good that people should spend time there just to take the set as an outfit. all 3 sets!!!
    pve sets are more than good for the pvp too! a raid with good and dedicated, geared with anvil sets will be untouchable!
    i dont really having problems with the game performance well i do have some probs but its onlyt coz the hight temperature we have in summer nothing more
    ssg dont care about pvp......... i believe they care LOTS more than any other previous company that had lotro rights!!!! ssg is really after our pockets, they have proven this with the lootboxes/keys, big gaps, grinding, driving directlly to the store, advertising the store all the time, any many more things!!! all the previus are both for creeps n freeps, PvP n PvE!!!! but anyway lotro was never a pvp friendlly game even the good time i am remembering very well.... nor its is designed as a pvp game!
    i believe there is no need to answer the no 7, its getting obvious by what i m writting above......

    dont get me wrong i dont blame you about something, you like PvP its ok to me!
    beliving that the reason so many people r not playing(*), its some of the reasons i m reffering above
    *i dont believe that too many people have really quited lotro, i saw a huge amount of returning players with the last update of the vales......
    they came to play the new story and they will stop again till they see something interesting, but why they dont play??? because of the grinding n grinding n grinding .........

    so what i believe it is wring n need to change asap.........

    1. lvl 120 (why do we really need so many lvls???)
    2. so much work to reach end game, by the word work ofc i mean the LI grinding
    3. endgame is a grinding nightmare, essences etc.....
    4. no alt friendly since lvl 100 or earlier, coz of the 2 reasons above
    5. toooo many expansions gated behind cost
    6. lootbox, keys, strore, digging our pockets
    7. not interesting game mechanism even in raids
    8. toooo much time between updates
    9. bugs
    10.not fixing bugs
    11. PvP (ofc its a problem too)
    12. we dont see that the company care for things the community asking for so long
    when they do something we r asking for, it is gated behind store or even more grinding or paying extra money! examples the lifetime LI, belfalas housing n more
    i m playing the game since the 1st year, never seen before soooo many outfits coming all together in so little time!!! ofc this is nice but.......i m sure anyone knowns that the best of them are in the lootboxes or behind grinding!
    we asked for more outfits ofc ; ) ....... same time they say they r sort of manpower n time......... looks like outfit design its easy n fast..........
    still for some years we r asking for a revamp of the "Tale of the Shipwrecked Mariners" outfits n a parrot pet but nothing............
    well maybe we ll see something this year .......... in the store or in the lootboxes ..........
    13. i m pretty sure that other people will add more n more reasons why players r not spending time in the game...........

    now, more people playing = more in pvp = more interesting pvp = no empty servers = more people in pve= better game economy = no more high prises in AH = more income for the company, but to happen all this need interesting content since they already having a great main story n they have proven of being capable to create really interesting side stories! that means they have to invest more in the game if they want profit! we r not milking cows, at least the most of us!
    Last edited by Valakircka; Jun 29 2019 at 03:51 PM.
    lotr enthousiast since 1996, 12 years lotro player, lifetimer, Loyal member of the Spartans Kinship, now in Evernight imigrants from Eldar

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Snobs View Post
    Merge the remaining Servers to increase Player Population, especially in PvP
    I think it would be easier to just designate 1 or 2 servers as the PvMP servers and allow free transfer's.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    L.A.
    Posts
    1,085
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebless View Post
    I think it would be easier to just designate 1 or 2 servers as the PvMP servers and allow free transfer's.
    sorry trying to understand what you r suggesting
    are you saying that 1 or 2 servers should be full pvp?

    if that is the case .......... you really believe redesigning the game its easier??????
    where have you been all these years..................
    havent you ever check forums?
    i dont want to be offensive n i m sorry if what i m writting look so.........
    what i want say is that this subject has come n go in the forums for many times!
    the answer is only one ! it cant be done (caps on)
    basic reason game licences
    2nd but not lesser the design of the game is pve not pvp (again caps on)
    redesigning the game means endless hours n cost!

    ok lets say the company redesign a quaple of servers to be full pvp..........
    that means stop everyrthing else for an year or so, add some months for testing too.........
    after 1.5 year this "thing", lets say will be ready n you suggesting the transfers will be free???? a big lol (caps on again n again font size 1000)
    meanwhile by not updating the current game, players will get bored of the same content, store will stop selling, players will stop playing

    so maybe do you want to suggest something that can be done??????
    Last edited by Valakircka; Jun 29 2019 at 03:27 PM.
    lotr enthousiast since 1996, 12 years lotro player, lifetimer, Loyal member of the Spartans Kinship, now in Evernight imigrants from Eldar

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Valakircka View Post
    sorry trying to understand what you r suggesting
    are you saying that 1 or 2 servers should be full pvp?
    NO, which is why I said PVMP not Pvp. You shouldn't try to read more into something than is intended. Snobs suggested merging all the servers into 1, I gave an alternate that is within SSG's capabilities; Free Transfer's.

    My suggestion pretty much echo'd TronGilrain's comment "We already got to point where EU and US players who care about pvp transfered to Evernight and Arkenstone." My suggestion is to designate 2 (those 2?) as the one's for people to transfer to if they want to do PVMP when not PvEing.
    Last edited by Nebless; Jun 29 2019 at 11:21 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    201
    There is plenty of players in lotro to have healthy pvp. It's not about lack of players on the servers.
    Main reason for low freep population is that you have to be VIP to enter moors. Make moors free for freeps for 2 weeks and you will see servers dying and problem to even enter pvp area (as it have limit of players).
    Main reason for creep low population is terrible balance (including best freep dps class being stealth class with almost unlimited escape capabilities), and simple boredom as there is nothing interesting to do exept watching freeps polishing gv stairs when we got enough numbers to have interesting fights.
    But in the end SSG can't control player behaviour wnich causing bad pvp. Sideswitching in middle of fights, waiting for creep raid to disband to zerg soloers. Making 24 man open raids to kill 5-6 freeps. Botch sides do bad things causing less and less ppl willing to participate in pvp. Looking from my tribe perspective we lost about 70% of our players since Mordor release and most of them not comming back since. There is just too much work in current system to maintain pvp. Only solution in my opinion would be : Lock etten in certain lvl. Not advance it with freepside. Give freeps pvp armour they HAVE TO USE instead of their pve gear. Make it free as compensation for taking money in all this years for the terrible service not worth VIP subscription. Remove ossilgath or make it solo only area (make buff like monsterplayer buff to prevent grouping, healing and tagging with damage - something like in spars). We not need freeps who want to pvp to spend weeks gearing before they can come to pvp.Every lvl cap/gear upgrade is terrible time for creep-only players and dead pvp.

  12. #12
    I would just merge this game with a better game, tbh.
    Ukrush | Meneldor | Dark Impulse

    The immersion is too real.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodesh View Post
    I would just merge this game with a better game, tbh.
    Ukrush chiming in with the 200 IQ ideas. SoA players are so smart. Personally, I think the playerbase would match PERFECTLY with Runescape. If SSG could work out some merger with them maybe they'll survive another year.
    Arkenstone| Officer of Faded | Altria
    Arkenstone | Leader of Dark Impulse | Telcely
    Original Challenger of Gothmog


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Starkorm View Post
    Ukrush chiming in with the 200 IQ ideas. SoA players are so smart. Personally, I think the playerbase would match PERFECTLY with Runescape. If SSG could work out some merger with them maybe they'll survive another year.
    Exactly! Officers of Faded are always quick with the good ideas.

    Get on this, SSG! The clock is ticking.
    Ukrush | Meneldor | Dark Impulse

    The immersion is too real.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodesh View Post
    Exactly! Officers of Faded are always quick with the good ideas.

    Get on this, SSG! The clock is ticking.
    Hey man, we got server first for a reason.
    Arkenstone| Officer of Faded | Altria
    Arkenstone | Leader of Dark Impulse | Telcely
    Original Challenger of Gothmog


  16. #16
    Why? So the server lags even more than it does now, especially during festivals and after down time?

    Maybe the reason why no one is playing in the Ettenmoors is because PVP is such a bad idea for a game that revolves around stories and quests, instead of being a fighting game like Tekken. I've played in Monster Play a few times but it didn't appeal to me, and if it's social interaction you want, maybe a table top game like dnd is more appealing to you. I would much rather be able to get into the game than having everyone try to log in to the same server at the same time. There seems to be plenty of players around during festivals.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    369
    I don't think server merges are a good thing, however i would like to see 1-2 servers for PvP'ers just like there's a RP server.
    Make Moors Great Again - Crickhollow
    Ishlan R13 WL, Nalshi R11 Rvr, Ishnal R9 Weaver, Lashin R6 Warg
    Blato (Mini), Shilan (Ward), Sahlin (Beorn), Grobnir (Guard), Hergis (RK), Ishlun (Capt)

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Blato View Post
    I don't think server merges are a good thing, however i would like to see 1-2 servers for PvP'ers just like there's a RP server.
    the 'rp' server is essentially self regulated, though. the overwhelming majority of players there do NOT rp, and even the naming rules are no longer enforced - to the dismay of those who do wish to rp, in an environment catered for them.

    pvp servers - that would be whole-server pvp, yes? would you accept that at least some people would want to NOT pvp? if this style isn't what you're asking for - then what you are asking for is already in game. move your chars to a pvp-heavy server and join that community. people who go to ettens usually want to pvp, and those who don't are, quite handily, ring-fenced outside it.

    it's also been said before that the license doesn't allow pvp. whether that be tolkien enterprises, or saul zenitz, or whoever put that clause in - i can't see them removing it at this point. even if they did, the game would probably have to be redeveloped with pvp as a primary consideration, which would cost more than it would ever be worth.

  19. #19
    I'd rather see them fix the real issues that led to player loss, than do another merge that will drive away even more players.

    Things that would get players back:

    1) Rework the ILI system to include catch-up and allow people to start endgaming directly after reaching maxlvl instead of having to grind years-old content for months.
    2) Revert/rework the mainstat change that was done with u23. Stats are completely off balance now, as seen in essences that are worth less than half essences.
    3) Make Essences easily available and worse than the slots they are calculated for (the choice of stats should have a price in potency, 8 of good stats are still better than 10 of useless stats). The worst type of essences for any given levelcap should be less than 20-30% behind the best type and available for nothing but basic crafting materials (or gold or anything else thats cheap). The higher tiers may then drop in instances or be crafted with shards and solvents.
    4) Stop creating Content like the Caverns of Thrumfall, where melee DPSers are simply invalid to beat a three-man-instance, as everyone within 30m around the final boss is unhealable. The amount of CC in Glimmerdeep that leads to people simply kite the boss and exploit/ignore all its mechanics is annoying, too. 3-man instances should be viable with just about any combination of three players, as long as you have heal/tank for higher Tiers. You can do better, I'm sure of it and have seen much better instances over the years that I've played lotro.
    5) performance, lags and rubberbanding (mainly while riding around in mounted combat (or just make normal mounts faster than MC)).
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Gründer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
    Deutsche Guides für nahezu alles, was Casuals interessieren könnte, gibts hier: http://gdfv.forumo.de/guides-f24/

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    369
    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthiere View Post
    pvp servers - that would be whole-server pvp, yes?
    No. Literally just mark some servers PvP and let the remaining pvpers xfer there.
    Make Moors Great Again - Crickhollow
    Ishlan R13 WL, Nalshi R11 Rvr, Ishnal R9 Weaver, Lashin R6 Warg
    Blato (Mini), Shilan (Ward), Sahlin (Beorn), Grobnir (Guard), Hergis (RK), Ishlun (Capt)

  21. #21
    Why not? Designate a server as PvMP-E, charge all the suckers 2400LP to xfer so they can experience the same poorly designed and implemented PvMP only with even more lag.

    PvMP-E + Xfer fees= Profit

    I could see that happening, But I'll pass thx.
    .

    Mortem Tyrannis

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    54
    NO interest in another merger. If playing a freep transfer. If playing a creep roll a new one.
    Just my 2 bits.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Maybury Hill
    Posts
    803
    I’m happy with the server pop on Laurelin as it is. It feels busy, but not too busy. I used to hate it in WoW when you went into Stormwind City and it was packed out and laggy. Kind of breaks the immersion too, as Middle Earth isn’t that packed with mighty heroes. As long as it is still working financially for the company, I’d rather it stays as it is. I also think it would send a message that the game was dying, which I really don’t think is true, despite what some people like to keep saying.

    I can see the benefits in merging the Ettenmoors into one server though, and having all freeps port to that server when they enter, although I can understand there would be technical limitations around this. Perhaps it could be done by having a completely different server for PvP, and entering as a creep directly from the character selection screen, rather than from the landscape. I’m not a developer, so I don’t know how easy or difficult this would be, of course.
    Last edited by TheArtilleryman; Jul 06 2019 at 08:25 AM.
    “...and he lived happily ever after, to the end of his days”

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Blato View Post
    No. Literally just mark some servers PvP and let the remaining pvpers xfer there.
    so... a pvp-marked server with only 2 (3 if counting delving) actual pvp zones.

    that would cause a tremendous amount of confusion - most people, with experience of many games, consider a pvp server to have pvp on the whole server. without that, its just a pve server with a pvp zone.

    and the 'outrage' that would come from being 'mis-sold' a pvp server... even with all the info in advance, there were ppl landing on the legendary servers thinking it was classic, rather than the actual design. there's no good way to market a pvp server that isn't a pvp server.

  25. #25
    A PVP server where the only existing areas are Ettenmoors and Osgiliath and maybe a bigger hub area would do it. You could completely delete everything else and in return you delete the PVP areas on live servers.


 

 
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