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  1. #1

    Hunter Questions Beneath Notice -detailed- i really have a problem with aggro

    Hello,

    i do my Hunter Project - this time it works better as the ones before.
    I am at Level 65, that is Endgame on Anor.


    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Beneath_Notice
    And
    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Imp...Beneath_Notice

    This skill replaces the skill Beneath Notice. This improved version also restores Power over time.


    Introduction, to make sure, that i read the skill :-)
    The "Powerrestore" is scaled only a little better as the unscaled tooltip said around 50 - i become the feeling to get "muck".
    5x 50 power are still 250 power - enough for 2-3 skills in 20sec. I know that is still enough for the the base of the Hunterplayer :-) [i stop that better atm]

    I have seldom power Issues and then i drink a pot.
    I use now only one Turtlebrace
    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Ite...shell_Bracelet
    And the Moral and Aggro reducing Book (Aggro reducing does not work - i think)


    Atm i feel a bit, as a shieldless Tank. With a good Healer i get a bit bad feeling, but i works. As long the heal goes on and there are few very, very strong hits.

    I can not look back on 10 years of build knowledge as other Hunter player do.
    I think i have a very good view on the Captain and i fine with Warden & Champion @75 (Orthanc) and RK (@115 Thron).
    I miss the knowlege about the Hunter, that is why i ask you here and also ingame - thanks for both wells of answers.

    I know what a Captain can do and use the Options if i can get them.
    In core as a Hunter i see my job in bringing things down. I get for that a list of options. Most depends on sharp points things that is move inside the enemies. Here i am still noobie, but i try to improve that too.

    As i get Aggro, unfortunately not seldom i think it is my error - and i want to fix that.

    I see only to options slot the book (its ever slotted) and press Beneath Notice - but when?

    or going for autoattacks and cook some tea. (not really an option beside Gortheron T2cm)

    We tried with tanking time of 10sec before i start. does not work.
    Did not surprise me, as Captain tank i take over the aggro the damagedealer has build up + bonus.
    If i wait the Damage done is maybe 1000+Aggrobonus what ever is less as 20k Heartseeker from the Shadows.
    Then the Troll runs to my little girl and hits her as long she is flat at the floor.

    With RK i had the problem far less. i need residence time (so i call it). a bit fire here, and a bit more and more and burn MF.
    As Hunter i can use direct at start very high spike output damageskills.

    Then i have as Hunter some options to increase the Crit rate and if i know where the Captains banner will drop, i can go in shadows and use it also.
    Understand it as my job to do as much damage as i can. That i do, but i have really a strong problem to avoid the echo of the enemy (awhile).

    What i can do better to do not get aggro? Or at lease to release it for a while (10sec are a joke if the beast has 4million Moral).
    Do i have other options as the book and the Beneath Notice skill to reduce my aggro (except not to do damage; no legacies left on my LI)?
    When i should press Beneath Notice?



    Beneath Notice
    I use it in common, as the big one runs to me. As my Mainchars are (or better were) all Melee classes, i am not very far away from the big guys. I do not see also the Hunter as a pure Range class - i see it as an Option, but for many skills i have to be in melee range.
    Other Problem.
    From tanking class i like it as Captain if the enemies are do not use formation cloud. Best would be if they only turn around and back - that is a point why i like Captain-Champion Shredder.


    That was very detailed, but i will become a good hunter with that people like to play.
    At the moment my captain would slap her.
    The only good is that i do not kite my tanks through the instance and stay near to them.



    Sidenote:
    I had the problem even as i was below 65. Now i have a Bow with the actual level and the problem increased even more.
    Before i assumed that i get more aggro because i am some levels below the instance.
    I use mainly the same Easy Rota, that depends on Quickshotbuff - free Improved Swift Bow - Upshot and now and then- Merciful/Blood Arrow/Barbed Arrow and Pen Shot (less i should - no visualplugin to show when the buff runs off; and get not the feeling)
    And i do not found a good Rota, and i asked many times.... [i would be very deeply grateful for a even better Rota]

    I used Dúrchest (Moral 4.156.500) as Trainingsdummy as we run some farmruns.
    I do around my 18% of Damage

    Old Bow (1st Age 60):
    Dúrchest (2m 58.3s); Dmg: 711.6K; DPS: 3,991.8; [17,1%]

    New Bow (1st Age 65) with some relicts (and maxed DSP but not finished Legacies maxed):
    Dúrchest (2m 45.3s); Dmg: 936.7K; DPS: 5,667.4; [22,5% better one with Captain Buffs]
    Dúrchest (2m 9.4s); Dmg: 758.1K; DPS: 5,857.1; [18,2% without Captain]

    [BTW is there an Option that Combat Analysis can do the % Math for me?]


    TLTR
    I wrote around 1 and a half hour this Post. I take this time to create a detailed display of my problem.
    If you are not able to read that in few minutes, then let it.
    Else i am very grateful for your help and the few minutes you sacrifice me to become a better Hunter.
    Maybe others read that too and get their problem solved as well.
    And absence of knowledge is the core problem of the Hunter Community.

    I am sure, that i am very pampering of the Captains and Chapions area in this forum and the great Captains Community on the Servers.
    Cheers to all of you and come back in game. Anor is a very nice Place and we could need some good Captains (at least me on my Hunter :-)).

  2. #2
    Else i am very grateful for your help and the few minutes you sacrifice me to become a better Hunter.
    Maybe others read that too and get their problem solved as well.
    Since you know Captain, you know captanks' aggro problems. My suggestion for captain tanking has always been to wait about 5 sec before taunting as you will aggro catchup the DPS. If a tank - any tank - starts a pull with a taunt, they won't get an aggro catchup till the NEXT taunt, which is a problem for all tanks but especially capts. When I captank I try and get HOTS on myself going for passive heal aggro and only lock mobs after about 5-10sec.

    My strategy as a hunter with a captain or warden is to do single-target DPS on the RAT until I hear the first taunt go off, and only then start AOE. Rain of Arrows or Split Shot can kill you. Guardians will have more skills to get aggro back. Don't know about bears.

    Work with your tank to understand how and where to pull.

    Also as a hunter never be more than 20-25m from target, for heals if nothing else.
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  3. #3
    I use only Singletarget Attacks (on Range).
    Play in Red without Rain of Arrow.
    To expensive for me for a 2x AOE - and for What? since years the bossfights are mostly Singletarget in focus.

    I am not far away, as i know the Buffrange of the captain.
    Mostly i am too near as to far.

    Yesterday we did DN and i get only once Aggro from the Blind One (as it resets on the Guardian in the first phase).
    That Guardian is a good player and said there is no problem when i start with full force.

    I have some good guardians around me but i PUG also and then for most instances Voice Communications is not much used.
    But i want to survive, in special in PUGs :-)
    Friendly Hunter told me not to start with HS, i should use Swift Bow instead. i common at least one of tree hits crit.
    Worked, but atm i use SB if i get the buff that reduce the induction of it.

    After yesterday (in DN) i get the feeling i do the right thing, but the tanks in PUGs not - but as i miss much hunter experience, so do not want to be harsh in that way.

    Learnt yesterday that i cannot move while the Heartseekers animation is on :-(
    Read all skills if i have a force taunt - that is did not see before. (no hit)

    I am very open to new tips and tricks.
    Switched today to Pescision and hope that the crit mulitplyer increasement does even more :-)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Nottingham, UK
    Posts
    327
    You should indeed start a fight with HS. Camouflage first - burn hot - double tap focus - HS. Aggro has been way easier to handle since trait trees, back then you had to use skill to generate aggro, now you just use force taunt and you can go afk tbh. If any guardian is struggling with aggro, esp in st situations then it's because the guardian doesn't know how to use force taunts, nothing to do with dps. I bet at 65 or whatever is the cap on lulgendary servers, guardians have all 4 force taunt skills and should never lose aggro unless it resets by a boss mechanics.

    You can only use any induction skills on the move while in blue, in red you have to stay still to cast an induction.

    Not sure what do you mean by *Read all skills if i have a force taunt - that is did not see before. (no hit)* as hunter has no force taunts.
    Captain-General Narthrivor r15 Hunter - r12 Warden - r12 Champion - r7 Captain - r6 Guardian - Phoenix Legion and Innocent raid alliance - Laurelin EN-RP

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoFTW View Post
    Camouflage first - burn hot - double tap focus - HS.
    I use Burnhot last (before HS) to have the buff as long as possible.

    the double tap focus?
    is Focus? (what i have to do except to press it once?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RicoFTW View Post
    Not sure what do you mean by *Read all skills if i have a force taunt - that is did not see before. (no hit)* as hunter has no force taunts.
    A Kind of Joke.
    As i get Aggro too often i fear that i press an Aggro skill (as Beos do sometimes in bearform, or even Red Guards) - A skill that is didnt see before.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,636
    Quote Originally Posted by Laubgaenger View Post
    I use Burnhot last (before HS) to have the buff as long as possible.
    the double tap focus?
    is Focus? (what i have to do except to press it once?)
    Double-tapping focus breaks its induction. When you start off a fight, you're usually at full focus anyhow.. so all you want is the focus buff. Double-tapping breaks the induction and gives you the buff instantly.
    Chromite/Grumbletocks/Grumbletunes/Schrade on Landroval, Chromite on Arkenstone, Appendage on Brandywine

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ChromiteSwiftpaw View Post
    Double-tapping focus breaks its induction. When you start off a fight, you're usually at full focus anyhow.. so all you want is the focus buff. Double-tapping breaks the induction and gives you the buff instantly.
    I found now what you do, thanks for the information.
    I did not found the buff, as if i Double-tapping focus breaks its induction and also the Focus buff.
    So i did not get what that gives to me.

    Solution: my Hunter is on Anor and Level 65.
    The Focus Bonus you get is from Improved Focus, that give the Hunter for 5sec +25% Crit Chance and +25% Crit Mulitplyer.
    The Improvement i get at Level 66 :-)
    So now i understand why use that at last.

    I tried both Stances.
    I get more damageoutcome in Strenght, as in Pecision.
    The Crit Mulitplyer is at 13% (P)
    And the Strenght Stance (S) Damage is 10%+10% from Red Skilltree.

    As i Pug much and the Raidgroup differ in Setup i use often Durchest T1.
    And did some Trainingdummies Test. You kill them and they respawn :-) - atm i need at least help from a 2nd one

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoFTW View Post
    If any guardian is struggling with aggro, esp in st situations then it's because the guardian doesn't know how to use force taunts, nothing to do with dps. I bet at 65 or whatever is the cap on lulgendary servers, guardians have all 4 force taunt skills and should never lose aggro unless it resets by a boss mechanics.
    I get in the last Days how Guardian Aggro works* - around the same as Captain.
    and How Beo Aggro work - a little bit as in former times, as they need to be in melee range.

    * Easy to read and understand:
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...r-large-groups

    In Core i think they Overwrite the aggro meter of 0 and have then 0+bonus, that is not enough, when the HS hits and the Rota follows.


    That leads to to 2 Points:
    If i get Aggro the Tank has maybe a problem.
    If i get Aggro and the Enemy has Aggroreset - then i am maybe 2nd after the force taunts on the "damagemeter". Then i do my job well - or have i a missunderstanding?

    And the Question is still for what i need Beneath Notice anymore?
    I will give the Aggro the 3rd in line, as long the Tank has the debuff - or?
    Last edited by Laubgaenger; Jul 10 2019 at 07:49 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,882
    Out of tanks perspective, if you can't survive.
    Let the tank get initial aggro, minimum one hit.
    Stay at 40m, fire as much as you can, if the mop is nearly at you and ready to hit, tank spots and copy multiply all your generated threat.
    Some tank classes as cappies and beos need this copy multiply, cause they generate nearly no own threat.
    Champs and wardens I've no idea how much they generated without their taunts but I guess more.
    For guards (at least with 120) they create enough own threat to keep the foes for a few seconds before aggro switches, mostly at 95-90% boss morale which is enough for copy multiplying and be save (without resets/ death) for the whole fight.
    I don't know how it works on lower level this times. With the old mechanics back there was no problem too but this worked completely different.

    And for beneath notice, if it work as it should, you can use it to help the tank.
    Tank hits, you hit, you get the aggro, beneath notice, aggro reduction of 60% for x s, in this times the tank can hit further without taunting, x seconds are gone, you get the aggro back with all you generated with less threat generation, calculated back to full, tank can taunt.

    And for the hunter book at least the hunters I know use the power book cause the threat generation is useless same for the legacies.
    At least if the tank knows what he does.
    Last edited by Mukor; Jul 10 2019 at 10:14 PM.

 

 

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