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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    15

    x64 bit client doesn't recognize W10 default ram and allocates too little unless manually set.

    Under W10:

    RUN:
    MSCONFIG:
    BOOT tab
    ADVANCED OPTIONS:

    The W10 default is for the "maximum memory" box to be left unchecked.

    This NEEDS to be checked and the ram entered manually into the box (# of gigs of ram x 1024) for the 64 bit client to not run out of memory and crash to desktop. For some reasons it doesn't respect the default W10 values if that box is unchecked.

    No idea why, that's for you engineer folks to discover, I had substantial crash to desktop issues with the 64 bit client until I "fixed" this in the W10 settings. Haven't crashed since, W10 also appears to be allocating more ram to the lotroclient64.exe process but I'm only viewing it through the resource monitor which may or may not be accurate.

    Before, when I was using hte unchecked (W10 default) setting for maximum memory it would only allocate about 3.8 gigs of memory, now that I have manually entered a value it's keeping the minimum default at like 4.2 gigs, and scaling up as high as needed, the highest usage I saw was almost 5 gigs with an allocated 5.8 so it's definitely working.

    Hope this helps someone.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,848
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleric670zz View Post
    Under W10:

    RUN:
    MSCONFIG:
    BOOT tab
    ADVANCED OPTIONS:

    The W10 default is for the "maximum memory" box to be left unchecked.

    This NEEDS to be checked and the ram entered manually into the box (# of gigs of ram x 1024) for the 64 bit client to not run out of memory and crash to desktop. For some reasons it doesn't respect the default W10 values if that box is unchecked.

    No idea why, that's for you engineer folks to discover, I had substantial crash to desktop issues with the 64 bit client until I "fixed" this in the W10 settings. Haven't crashed since, W10 also appears to be allocating more ram to the lotroclient64.exe process but I'm only viewing it through the resource monitor which may or may not be accurate.

    Before, when I was using hte unchecked (W10 default) setting for maximum memory it would only allocate about 3.8 gigs of memory, now that I have manually entered a value it's keeping the minimum default at like 4.2 gigs, and scaling up as high as needed, the highest usage I saw was almost 5 gigs with an allocated 5.8 so it's definitely working.

    Hope this helps someone.
    Good spot; hopefully this will help a lot of Win10 users, and perhaps if Cordovan sees it, he will forward it to the devs.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    13
    Now I just hope the devs see this and fix the crashes because it's turning people off the 64bit launcher and it looks like a problem that should be easly fixed! Devs get on it before people give up on 64bit client!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    6,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleric670zz View Post
    Under W10:

    RUN:
    MSCONFIG:
    BOOT tab
    ADVANCED OPTIONS:

    The W10 default is for the "maximum memory" box to be left unchecked.

    This NEEDS to be checked and the ram entered manually into the box (# of gigs of ram x 1024) for the 64 bit client to not run out of memory and crash to desktop. For some reasons it doesn't respect the default W10 values if that box is unchecked.

    No idea why, that's for you engineer folks to discover, I had substantial crash to desktop issues with the 64 bit client until I "fixed" this in the W10 settings. Haven't crashed since, W10 also appears to be allocating more ram to the lotroclient64.exe process but I'm only viewing it through the resource monitor which may or may not be accurate.

    Before, when I was using hte unchecked (W10 default) setting for maximum memory it would only allocate about 3.8 gigs of memory, now that I have manually entered a value it's keeping the minimum default at like 4.2 gigs, and scaling up as high as needed, the highest usage I saw was almost 5 gigs with an allocated 5.8 so it's definitely working.

    Hope this helps someone.
    Resource Monitor is pretty good, though not as good as some other tools. I've never seen lotroclient64.exe, itself, go above 4GB of working set. I have seen to go to 6GB commit charge, which includes pages sent to the video card and pages sent to the backing store. The two, yes two crashes that I have seen were memory access faults (bad pointer?), not memory allocation faults.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,848
    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    Resource Monitor is pretty good, though not as good as some other tools. I've never seen lotroclient64.exe, itself, go above 4GB of working set. I have seen to go to 6GB commit charge, which includes pages sent to the video card and pages sent to the backing store. The two, yes two crashes that I have seen were memory access faults (bad pointer?), not memory allocation faults.
    Backing store??

    Do you mean page file??

    if you have plenty of RAM (over 8GB), try switching it off.

    I havent run a Page File since reaching 2GB on Win98se.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Oregon City, OR
    Posts
    172
    Yeah, I tried this, and now I'm typing on my laptop, because my desktop computer thinks it needs to perform a repair and it can't find what it needs to repair and I can even get windows to load.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,848
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannariel View Post
    Yeah, I tried this, and now I'm typing on my laptop, because my desktop computer thinks it needs to perform a repair and it can't find what it needs to repair and I can even get windows to load.
    Force it to boot into Safe Mode and have a poke around; I have never even heard of this happening from switching off the page file.

    I would double check your RAM is being detected correctly, and that nothing requiring HUGE amounts of RAM is trying to load at start up. I ONCE had a memory low warning due to a database configuration going wrong (it tried to run two different copies of the same database at the same time).

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    St. Petersburg
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleric670zz View Post
    Under W10:
    RUN:
    MSCONFIG:
    BOOT tab
    ADVANCED OPTIONS:

    The W10 default is for the "maximum memory" box to be left unchecked.

    This NEEDS to be checked and the ram entered manually into the box (# of gigs of ram x 1024).
    When i enter 16384 (16gb) into that box, click ok and then return to ADVANCED OPTION, there is a "0" in that box.

    When i use other ram amounts, it converted into other amounts. Like 15360 (15gb) converted into 3072 (3gb).

    Windows 10 x64 1903 on bootcamped MacBook pro (16gb ram, late 2013 model) in case if it matters.
    Some ms guy (girl actually ) states that "0" means "all avalable memory", dont know if its true.
    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...a-5eabad04abce

    update: if you enter "0" into this box, then press ok, it converted into "256" lol
    Last edited by Fortinson; Jun 18 2019 at 06:08 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,848
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortinson View Post
    When i enter 16384 (16gb) into that box, click ok and then return to ADVANCED OPTION, there is a "0" in that box.

    When i use other ram amounts, it converted into other amounts. Like 15360 (15gb) converted into 3072 (3gb).

    Windows 10 x64 1903 on bootcamped MacBook pro (16gb ram, late 2013 model) in case if it matters.
    Some ms guy (girl actually ) states that "0" means "all avalable memory", dont know if its true.
    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...a-5eabad04abce
    0= unlimited, or maximum in many software settings, however the suggestion is that LOTRO isnt reading this correctly, and artificially limiting the amount of RAM to what it THINKS is the maximum.

    By entering an explicit value, LOTRO then has a real number to follow.

    This might be a bug in the 64 bit coding, or a legacy setting buried in older coding, or related to how Windows traditionally allots unused RAM to cache duties.

    Another setting that might help - if it is present in Win10, is setting priority to programs and not background tasks, or visa versa. I know this setting exists in all versions up to and including Win7.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Oregon City, OR
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    Force it to boot into Safe Mode and have a poke around; I have never even heard of this happening from switching off the page file.

    I would double check your RAM is being detected correctly, and that nothing requiring HUGE amounts of RAM is trying to load at start up. I ONCE had a memory low warning due to a database configuration going wrong (it tried to run two different copies of the same database at the same time).
    Even the safe mode ended up going on this endless repair loop that couldn't figure anything out. A microsoft guy helped me out, and fortunately I had most of my files saved off my computer in dropbox or an external hard drive. I ended up have to reset windows and do a clean install (the instructions to save my windows/old files failed ). I think the only really important thing I lost was last year's tax returns and it's easily redo-able. That and lots of lotro spreadsheets I'd created to follow progress in certain areas. But I'll live.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,848
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannariel View Post
    Even the safe mode ended up going on this endless repair loop that couldn't figure anything out. A microsoft guy helped me out, and fortunately I had most of my files saved off my computer in dropbox or an external hard drive. I ended up have to reset windows and do a clean install (the instructions to save my windows/old files failed ). I think the only really important thing I lost was last year's tax returns and it's easily redo-able. That and lots of lotro spreadsheets I'd created to follow progress in certain areas. But I'll live.
    Before you do too much, stop, download and use Piriform Recuva, it will recover most, if not all of the lost files.

    It does sound like your issue was with something related to the OS, rather than the game.

    Never save anything important in a folder Windows creates (My Documents for example), and if at all possible, not in a folder on the same physical storage device (SSD, HDD), as the OS.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    15

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleric670zz View Post
    Under W10:

    RUN:
    MSCONFIG:
    BOOT tab
    ADVANCED OPTIONS:

    The W10 default is for the "maximum memory" box to be left unchecked.

    This NEEDS to be checked and the ram entered manually into the box (# of gigs of ram x 1024) for the 64 bit client to not run out of memory and crash to desktop. For some reasons it doesn't respect the default W10 values if that box is unchecked.

    No idea why, that's for you engineer folks to discover, I had substantial crash to desktop issues with the 64 bit client until I "fixed" this in the W10 settings. Haven't crashed since, W10 also appears to be allocating more ram to the lotroclient64.exe process but I'm only viewing it through the resource monitor which may or may not be accurate.

    Before, when I was using hte unchecked (W10 default) setting for maximum memory it would only allocate about 3.8 gigs of memory, now that I have manually entered a value it's keeping the minimum default at like 4.2 gigs, and scaling up as high as needed, the highest usage I saw was almost 5 gigs with an allocated 5.8 so it's definitely working.

    Hope this helps someone.
    Also locked up my pc in the repair loop. Not recommend someone do it

    Got around it via command prompt in repair options and using bcdedit, found this post : https://forums.techguy.org/threads/s...roblem.929591/

    Saved me an install/reset

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,399
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleric670zz View Post
    Under W10:

    RUN:
    MSCONFIG:
    BOOT tab
    ADVANCED OPTIONS:

    The W10 default is for the "maximum memory" box to be left unchecked.

    This NEEDS to be checked and the ram entered manually into the box (# of gigs of ram x 1024) for the 64 bit client to not run out of memory and crash to desktop. For some reasons it doesn't respect the default W10 values if that box is unchecked.

    No idea why, that's for you engineer folks to discover, I had substantial crash to desktop issues with the 64 bit client until I "fixed" this in the W10 settings. Haven't crashed since, W10 also appears to be allocating more ram to the lotroclient64.exe process but I'm only viewing it through the resource monitor which may or may not be accurate.

    Before, when I was using hte unchecked (W10 default) setting for maximum memory it would only allocate about 3.8 gigs of memory, now that I have manually entered a value it's keeping the minimum default at like 4.2 gigs, and scaling up as high as needed, the highest usage I saw was almost 5 gigs with an allocated 5.8 so it's definitely working.

    Hope this helps someone.
    I'm not sure why this method is helping you, but it really shouldn't. It may just be a coincidence that the problem went away when you changed that option. The option should only be able to reduce the amount of RAM available to the OS (to help with troubleshooting), not increase it. The default value should allow the system to use all resources.
    Thurallor, Warden of Landroval
    Author of plugins: SequenceBars, Reminders, others

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,848
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    I'm not sure why this method is helping you, but it really shouldn't. It may just be a coincidence that the problem went away when you changed that option. The option should only be able to reduce the amount of RAM available to the OS (to help with troubleshooting), not increase it. The default value should allow the system to use all resources.
    As before, it could be that LOTRO isnt seeing this properly; and setting it HIGHER than the available physical RAM shouldnt be possible.

    If setting Max RAM is causing problems, it may be the system is trying to reserve some for itself and this is causing a clash, it might be the RAM has a few bad cells and setting max RAM is triggering them.

    It is a setting you can experiment with though, with 8GB of system RAM, try setting 6GB; with 16GB, try setting 12GB, leave the OS with 2-4GB to play with, and see what happens.

    The more we all play with various settings, the more SSG can learn from what happens; this is how I learnt to use Windows many years ago; my very first Windows PC had Win95 reinstalled about 12 times in the first month, as I played and broke the OS, learning a little more about what worked and what didnt each time.

    I got reinstall time down from ~2 hours to 40 minutes from all the practice!!!
    Last edited by Yarbro; Jun 18 2019 at 12:33 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    I'm not sure why this method is helping you, but it really shouldn't. It may just be a coincidence that the problem went away when you changed that option. The option should only be able to reduce the amount of RAM available to the OS (to help with troubleshooting), not increase it. The default value should allow the system to use all resources.
    I haven't tried it yet so can't talk by experience but if I understood it properly, lotro 64 bit will not really use RAM properly if system is assigning max RAM automatically, so you have to manually set it. That's what OP said. It's very unlikely but I'm not surprised this game is capable of making the impossible in terms of bugs...

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Oregon City, OR
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    Before you do too much, stop, download and use Piriform Recuva, it will recover most, if not all of the lost files.

    It does sound like your issue was with something related to the OS, rather than the game.

    Never save anything important in a folder Windows creates (My Documents for example), and if at all possible, not in a folder on the same physical storage device (SSD, HDD), as the OS.
    Thank you for the information Yarbro. I appreciate your technical support on this.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Oregon City, OR
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by AllstarChampion View Post
    Also locked up my pc in the repair loop. Not recommend someone do it

    Got around it via command prompt in repair options and using bcdedit, found this post : https://forums.techguy.org/threads/s...roblem.929591/

    Saved me an install/reset
    Too bad I didn't have this information before. Thank you for sharing though. I figure this has been a learning experience for me. Fortunately I had a lot of stuff backed up on an external HD from when I got rid of my old computer in December so I didn't really lose a lot of stuff. My life didn't end and neither did the world....Just spent a 1/2 days worth of time getting everything back up and running and reinstalling software programs.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Some tavern, somewhere in the Shire, lost the keys to my horse
    Posts
    676
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleric670zz View Post
    Under W10:

    RUN:
    MSCONFIG:
    BOOT tab
    ADVANCED OPTIONS:

    The W10 default is for the "maximum memory" box to be left unchecked.

    This NEEDS to be checked and the ram entered manually into the box (# of gigs of ram x 1024) for the 64 bit client to not run out of memory and crash to desktop. For some reasons it doesn't respect the default W10 values if that box is unchecked.

    No idea why, that's for you engineer folks to discover, I had substantial crash to desktop issues with the 64 bit client until I "fixed" this in the W10 settings. Haven't crashed since, W10 also appears to be allocating more ram to the lotroclient64.exe process but I'm only viewing it through the resource monitor which may or may not be accurate.

    Before, when I was using hte unchecked (W10 default) setting for maximum memory it would only allocate about 3.8 gigs of memory, now that I have manually entered a value it's keeping the minimum default at like 4.2 gigs, and scaling up as high as needed, the highest usage I saw was almost 5 gigs with an allocated 5.8 so it's definitely working.

    Hope this helps someone.
    Do not, I repeat: PLEASE DO NOT mess with this setting under Windows 10. That's an ancient legacy setting that is no longer expected to do much except bork (bork is a technical word for broken) your system.

    For the math inclined, if one were to hypothetically use that setting without breaking your machine, one would have to calculate the exact USABLE RAM available to Windows. Which is rarely the same number as the RAM installed. It's a bit less, depending on whether you are using an on-board video card, other add-on cards, the BIOS, and several other factors. You'll need to know, and account for, every hardware device that uses a little RAM at the hardware level, deduct that, and not be wrong.

    It's okay to put a number that's less than your actual RAM by a safe margin, it's not okay to put in the exact number you think it is and be wrong, because Windows will attempt to allocate memory it's not supposed to have (Like the aforementioned video RAM for integrated systems - which is just ONE example.)

    Historically, some software testers have used that setting to emulate low RAM systems without having the remove physical RAM.
    Last edited by Ogmios; Jun 20 2019 at 09:53 PM.
    Ogmios ~ Davidge ~ Eriuwen ~ Kainoa ~ Braidfoot

 

 

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