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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Where is our LI changes? What is happening with this horrible system?

    So the other LI thread fell off the main page and instead of simply bumping it I figured Id start a fresh new thread to simply ask, what the hell is going on here?

    What do we know?
    -LI Revamp next year tentatively speaking
    -LI Revamp is not the main concern of the community, we simply want minor changes to grind issues now
    -Sev said in the anniversary stream that they had some ideas such as making them available for Embers but not even that has happened
    -Cord wont answer LI questions anymore on +Cordoftherings afaik, simply shrugs it off or points us at the producers letter (which is not a shot at cord, I am fully aware he doesnt make decisions on this matter, someone else is telling our CM to stop addressing the single largest issue in the game)
    -SSG has made scrolls harder to acquire by making the ones that drop from Ironfold instances bind as of u24.1 (account bound if you are online when the timer they now have expires, character bound if you are not) Take that as you will...

    What ideas for fixing this issue have been thrown out?
    -Reducing cost of SOE's at skirm vendors
    -Increasing their drop rate in T3 of Anvil and adding them to T2 and T1 (they currently only drop from T3, and at what seems a <50% drop rate per chest)
    -Increasing their drop rate in Ironfold instances (currently only drop on favoured pulls, do not even drop on unfavoured pulls)
    -Fixing Anvil T3/T2 to drop marks/medallions on all their bosses
    -Fixing final boss of TG to drop a proper amount of marks/medallions (currently bugged and only drops ~200marks and no meds)
    -Adding new vendors to barter for them at end game
    -Coins of Grarik barter is the fan favourite
    -Longbeard Marks
    -Embers
    -Gulmarks/Beorning/Woodmen
    -Potentially making the FI current rotation more farmable outside of school i.e. adding in Library/other fast 3mans.

    And despite all this, the single largest issue with the largest issue in the game hasnt even been covered yet. Amongst the terrible loot table designs, the bugs with marks/med drops that SSG refuses to fix (I personally have filed bug reports and commented on forums about it) and no real means of acquiring them reliably/farmable at end game the most pressing issue is how horrendous brand new LI's are. What are new people/new alts suppose to do? The only reasonable way level a brand new LI these days is to have an older alt feed it supplies. This literally drives people away from the game, I can't even try to convince a friend to join me at end game because of how horrible this is

    Possible fixes
    -Grant more levels for free.
    -Have AoV supply users of the package with REAL LI's, aka, first agers with enough scrolls/starlits to atleast make their way into mordor
    -Make a new craftable lvl 100 LI for all LI's that starts off with significantly higher base levels.
    -A reasonably priced store package with account bound SOE/Starlits to get a new set of LI's to beginning of lvl 120 status (legacy levels of 74)

    So here are my questions, starting with the ones that dumbfound me the most
    -Why arent the bugs that impact players LI grinds being fixed like the marks/medallion drops in end game instance?
    -Why is SSG blowing this off?
    -Are store sales really that good that someone is deciding to risk the integrity/trust of this company/game by ignoring the largest issue it has?
    -If SSG is not seeing many new players make it to end game are they asking themselves "what if its the LI system?"
    -And just how many people are expected to keep playing on the LS server when imbuement hits/when rohan hits/when big battles hit?

    Add any feedback or notes to the categories above and I will do my best to add them

    I just dont know if I want to cry or laugh at this point. As soon as something is done about the LI system I am buying an AOV and leveling a new toon, Ive always wanted to play a cappy at end game. But until then Im holding on to my 60$ and you can rest assured that not a dime of it is going to MC to buy LI levels. Im paying my sub, maybe buy a few LP when they are on sale/extra bonus points, but anything outside of that I would want to go towards a new character to experience something new at end game, but alas, the LI grind is to large of a deterrent
    Last edited by Olebenny; Jun 15 2019 at 11:46 PM.
    Lvl 120 Guard - Olebenny || Lvl 120 Guard - Theoderad || Lvl 120 Guard - Estelrian || Lvl 120 Runekeeper - Leegun || Lvl 120 Mini - Nathorean || Lvl 120 Champion - Cephrial
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    What more does one need in LotRO than a lot of morale and a shield?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    724
    I've never understood the monetization of the scrolls. The crystals are OK with the mithril coins when combined with festivals and drops.

    But the price on the scrolls feels about 100 times too high (at least for what I would pay). I suppose people pay it but from my perspective
    if they lowered it at least by 20x I might be a little tempted.

    Adding them to embers is a terrible idea. What 1 for 500 embers or 1000? No thanks.

    gulmark and other endish game marks is a good idea. Should be like 5 for 1. But I'd go as high as 10 or 15.


    Also take a zero off the price in the skirmish camp and we could pretty much solve the whole thing.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Well, there are a couple of underlying problems with the LI system that stem from the way that the imbued system was tacked on at level 100 (then level cap) rather than replacing the old system. The "tacking on" at level 100 meant that there was never any connection made between char level and the tier levels / legacies on the ILI. Therefore, not only do players completely abandon the old LI system at level 100, they also potentially have available to them a full max level ILI immediately upon reaching level 100. That issue only gets worse as ILI max tier levels and char level cap are increased. Really, what should happen, is that the old LI system should be scrapped completely, and a link should be established directly between char level and max legacy tier level.

    However, the fact is, that's not what most players are / have been concerned with. The issue for most players is the insanely high and increasing number of scrolls, crystals etc. required to max an ILI. The problem there is, introducing a grind in the game and then making a monetized bypass to the grind available is an integral part of the f2p model. So while lobbying might get some tweaks here and there, I doubt the grind required will ever be addressed in a substantive manner. But good luck!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKenny View Post
    Well, there are a couple of underlying problems with the LI system that stem from the way that the imbued system was tacked on at level 100 (then level cap) rather than replacing the old system. The "tacking on" at level 100 meant that there was never any connection made between char level and the tier levels / legacies on the ILI. Therefore, not only do players completely abandon the old LI system at level 100, they also potentially have available to them a full max level ILI immediately upon reaching level 100. That issue only gets worse as ILI max tier levels and char level cap are increased. Really, what should happen, is that the old LI system should be scrapped completely, and a link should be established directly between char level and max legacy tier level.

    However, the fact is, that's not what most players are / have been concerned with. The issue for most players is the insanely high and increasing number of scrolls, crystals etc. required to max an ILI. The problem there is, introducing a grind in the game and then making a monetized bypass to the grind available is an integral part of the f2p model. So while lobbying might get some tweaks here and there, I doubt the grind required will ever be addressed in a substantive manner. But good luck!
    Yes. The current LI system is the main reason I don't continue playing LotRO. It's just a huge chore for me and stymies the fun of experiencing this otherwise really fun game; and I'm sure I'm not alone.
    Lore is the watchword of LotRO

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Olebenny View Post
    What ideas for fixing this issue have been thrown out?
    -Reducing cost of SOE's at skirm vendors
    -Increasing their drop rate in T3 of Anvil and adding them to T2 and T1 (they currently only drop from T3, and at what seems a <50% drop rate per chest)
    -Increasing their drop rate in Ironfold instances (currently only drop on favoured pulls, do not even drop on unfavoured pulls)
    -Fixing Anvil T3/T2 to drop marks/medallions on all their bosses
    -Fixing final boss of TG to drop a proper amount of marks/medallions (currently bugged and only drops ~200marks and no meds)
    -Adding new vendors to barter for them at end game
    -Coins of Grarik barter is the fan favourite
    -Longbeard Marks
    -Embers
    -Gulmarks/Beorning/Woodmen
    -Potentially making the FI current rotation more farmable outside of school i.e. adding in Library/other fast 3mans.
    I also suggested something along the lines of deconning ILIs for crystals and scrolls, maybe via an additional tab on the Relic Master where the trade is made (whether you call it deconstruction or something else), with similar patterns for getting more for putting in more IXP as exists for deconning non-imbued LIs. This would become more effficient as free ILI levels are added, thus becoming easier for new characters to catch up (and it's not a giveaway as you still have to generate the IXP to level a dummy ILI through gameplay of some sort).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    315
    Quote Originally Posted by Neithan View Post
    Yes. The current LI system is the main reason I don't continue playing LotRO. It's just a huge chore for me and stymies the fun of experiencing this otherwise really fun game; and I'm sure I'm not alone.
    At this stage, several years later, nothing short of a completely redesigned system that is not based on endlessly clicking on items would even spark my interest in trying it out for even one character, let alone all the ones I might actually want to play again.
    Start from scratch, remove heritage runes and empowerment scrolls from the game, with slower advancement based only on content done (deeds etc., crafting, kills etc), with a higher XP accrual from PvMP and group content would be my suggestion.
    I am not optimistic about this part of the game or even particularly happy with my own suggestion though.

  7. #7
    In my honest opinion, a quick fix to satiate players in the short term would be to give a way to barter for LI components (including crystals, scrolls and *maybe* crystals of remembrance) for endgame areas at least.
    Seeing as the current idea seems to be putting all the main character progression grinds at endgame (including virtues) so that you're encouraged to continually buy the new quest packs. Wouldn't this make sense for the developers point of view?

    Court of Seregost was a very generous instance while it was endgame, it was quick enough to do daily and get consistent LI rewards, nerfing this essentially made the best way to grind for LI stuff obsolete, making it so you had to run even more outdated content to make up for it and thus making the already extensive LI grind even more tedious. I thought the devs wanted to prevent people having to run outdated content.
    Of course a revamp for the LI imbuement system would be preferred, but in the mean time just increasing the drop rates for LI scrolls or making them a barter item for either embers or current endgame tokens (and also potentially lowering the skirm mark cost for the scrolls though it's understandable why this won't happen) would make things a lot better in the meanwhile.
    I have a burglar at 102 right now that I'm struggling to find the will to carry on because of the legendary item grind ahead of me. Something should be done about this.
    -Askelin: 120 Warden who has a bear for a wife.
    (Laurelin)

  8. #8
    No, it's not happening.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ssue-grind-SSG

    Go play ESO or something.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
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    I DO agree that the SCROLLS need to be addressed, however 29 star lits crystals or so isn't much to pay in mithril , if one DID want to skip that part. 10 upgrades to dps stat is only 100 mithril coin. that's like...9$? keeps the game going at least.

    the scrolls of empowerment are a whole other beast and I don't really know what to input about that.

    plus there are some of us who do still enjoy big battles and star lits are easily bartered for there, in dol amroth.

  10. #10
    So many good ideas for SOE and crystal improvements above.
    We can only imagine the money spinner these items must be to merit the lack of change and to completely ignore their customers.

  11. #11
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    Jan 2008
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    443
    They must be making a lot of money from the ILI mess to completely ignore their customers. I doubt seriously that any real change will ever made. I almost wonder if the Artifact of the Vale fiasco is nothing more than a diversionary tactic.

  12. #12
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    15,214
    Quote Originally Posted by Talorwen View Post
    I DO agree that the SCROLLS need to be addressed, however 29 star lits crystals or so isn't much to pay in mithril....
    But mithril coins cost Real World money, barring very rare drops. (I once got 200 MC as a gold Hobbit present. I don't expect ever to see another.) And some of us simply don't have the Real World money to spend on the game. (Best $199 I ever spent was a lifetime membership at SoA launch; if I hadn't done that, I wouldn't be playing now.)

    Time is money, it's said; and having time but no money, I grind for SoEs and Starlits. I do it because the landscape (in Ered Mithrin; I have no idea what the Vales are like, not having tried to go there) has got to the point where one needs a maxed-out ILI to survive there. This is probably not what SSG were intending; but it's what they got.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone
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  13. #13
    I also will never play lvl 105+ areas again till the scroll grind is fixed to reasonable levels (no more than 2 weeks of 1 hour dailies per LI).

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    I do it because the landscape (in Ered Mithrin; I have no idea what the Vales are like, not having tried to go there) has got to the point where one needs a maxed-out ILI to survive there. This is probably not what SSG were intending; but it's what they got.
    That's just not true, sorry. I did the Ered Mithrin stuff with green quest gear and an LI that wasn't even close to maxed-out.
    Server: [DE]Gwaihir, Kinship: Hecki Hecki Pateng

  15. #15
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    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olebenny View Post
    So the other LI thread fell off the main page and instead of simply bumping it I figured Id start a fresh new thread to simply ask, what the hell is going on here?

    What do we know?
    -LI Revamp next year tentatively speaking
    -LI Revamp is not the main concern of the community, we simply want minor changes to grind issues now
    -Sev said in the anniversary stream that they had some ideas such as making them available for Embers but not even that has happened
    -Cord wont answer LI questions anymore on +Cordoftherings afaik, simply shrugs it off or points us at the producers letter (which is not a shot at cord, I am fully aware he doesnt make decisions on this matter, someone else is telling our CM to stop addressing the single largest issue in the game)

    What ideas for fixing this issue have been thrown out?
    -Reducing cost of SOE's at skirm vendors
    -Increasing their drop rate in T3 of Anvil and adding them to T2 and T1 (they currently only drop from T3, and at what seems a <50% drop rate per chest)
    -Increasing their drop rate in Ironfold instances (currently only drop on favoured pulls, do not even drop on unfavoured pulls)
    -Fixing Anvil T3/T2 to drop marks/medallions on all their bosses
    -Fixing final boss of TG to drop a proper amount of marks/medallions (currently bugged and only drops ~200marks and no meds)
    -Adding new vendors to barter for them at end game
    -Coins of Grarik barter is the fan favourite
    -Longbeard Marks
    -Embers
    -Gulmarks/Beorning/Woodmen
    -Potentially making the FI current rotation more farmable outside of school i.e. adding in Library/other fast 3mans.

    And despite all this, the single largest issue with the largest issue in the game hasnt even been covered yet. Amongst the terrible loot table designs, the bugs with marks/med drops that SSG refuses to fix (I personally have filed bug reports and commented on forums about it) and no real means of acquiring them reliably/farmable at end game the most pressing issue is how horrendous brand new LI's are. What are new people/new alts suppose to do? The only reasonable way level a brand new LI these days is to have an older alt feed it supplies. This literally drives people away from the game, I can't even try to convince a friend to join me at end game because of how horrible this is

    Possible fixes
    -Grant more levels for free.
    -Have AoV supply users of the package with REAL LI's, aka, first agers with enough scrolls/starlits to atleast make their way into mordor
    -Make a new craftable lvl 100 LI for all LI's that starts off with significantly higher base levels.
    -A reasonably priced store package with account bound SOE/Starlits to get a new set of LI's to beginning of lvl 120 status (legacy levels of 74)

    So here are my questions, starting with the ones that dumbfound me the most
    -Why arent the bugs that impact players LI grinds being fixed like the marks/medallion drops in end game instance?
    -Why is SSG blowing this off?
    -Are store sales really that good that someone is deciding to risk the integrity/trust of this company/game by ignoring the largest issue it has?
    -If SSG is not seeing many new players make it to end game are they asking themselves "what if its the LI system?"
    -And just how many people are expected to keep playing on the LS server when imbuement hits/when rohan hits/when big battles hit?

    Add any feedback or notes to the categories above and I will do my best to add them

    I just dont know if I want to cry or laugh at this point. As soon as something is done about the LI system I am buying an AOV and leveling a new toon, Ive always wanted to play a cappy at end game. But until then Im holding on to my 60$ and you can rest assured that not a dime of it is going to MC to buy LI levels. Im paying my sub, maybe buy a few LP when they are on sale/extra bonus points, but anything outside of that I would want to go towards a new character to experience something new at end game, but alas, the LI grind is to large of a deterrent

    Can you just like chill?

    The only people who need a maxed out LI are hardcore raiders and raiders are APPARENTLY a very small fraction of a very small part of the population. Therefore, why would they invest any amount of time in fixing it? And why would they even put any effort into fixing T3 content? The vast majority of players apparently don't play T3 content. They should really focus their efforts on the store and on festivals. Most people interact with this content and therefore their time is better spent polishing it to its maximal potential.
    .

    You currently have 1337 reputation point(s).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwswim03 View Post
    Can you just like chill?

    The only people who need a maxed out LI are hardcore raiders and raiders are APPARENTLY a very small fraction of a very small part of the population. Therefore, why would they invest any amount of time in fixing it? And why would they even put any effort into fixing T3 content? The vast majority of players apparently don't play T3 content. They should really focus their efforts on the store and on festivals. Most people interact with this content and therefore their time is better spent polishing it to its maximal potential.
    Can you just like not be so naive?

    Fixing a bug that prevents us raiders from acquiring currency that we need to max our LI's sounds like something SSG should absolutely do. And even if we are such the minority as you say, does not sound like that huge of a bug fix to me and it is also present in I believe 2 of the bosses on T2 so... (and final boss TG). The granting of marks/meds just isnt tied to x quest completion/boss kill but is to y quest completion/boss kill. Anyone that knows more feel free to chime in, I know coding is never that simple.

    Mordor introduced a significant jump in stats including practically doubling the damage on LI's when you go over a certain level, I dont remember which one, so using a LI that is not atleast up to mordor standards in Starlits at the very minimum significantly hinders players.

    Just go and read the other 17page long thread, this is not a raider only issue. Sure you dont need maxed LI's to do landscape, but the difference you will notice between one, and one that gets a SOE thrown its way every once in awhile is huge.

    And lowering currently barter prices/adding new barters absolutely is not a huge work load when we've seen in the past this done many times even with out it being requested such as separating the Figments barterer into their own NPC, something I didnt see asked of anywhere on the forums (link me if so) but just appeared one update. So your festivals and store content will still get all the focus they need, the fixes needed for this horrendous system are easy to implement.

    Ironfold instance dropped SOE's now have a fellowship tradable timer and bind to account when it runs out (binds to character if you arent online when the timer finishes) so yeah thats a load of doodoo. SSG seems to be consciously making decisions to simply annoy us on the matter. Guess its better than blatantly ignoring it :thinking:

    And go check out all those Anvil increased damage threads, sure seems like a lot of people atleast do T2 of the raid and dont like seeing it becoming slightly out of commission. And even if they arent doing T3, T2 could still go to have maxed LI's
    Lvl 120 Guard - Olebenny || Lvl 120 Guard - Theoderad || Lvl 120 Guard - Estelrian || Lvl 120 Runekeeper - Leegun || Lvl 120 Mini - Nathorean || Lvl 120 Champion - Cephrial
    Leader of Raiders Beneath the Shadow - Arkenstone
    What more does one need in LotRO than a lot of morale and a shield?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olebenny View Post
    Can you just like not be so naive?

    Fixing a bug that prevents us raiders from acquiring currency that we need to max our LI's sounds like something SSG should absolutely do. And even if we are such the minority as you say, does not sound like that huge of a bug fix to me and it is also present in I believe 2 of the bosses on T2 so... (and final boss TG). The granting of marks/meds just isnt tied to x quest completion/boss kill but is to y quest completion/boss kill. Anyone that knows more feel free to chime in, I know coding is never that simple.

    Mordor introduced a significant jump in stats including practically doubling the damage on LI's when you go over a certain level, I dont remember which one, so using a LI that is not atleast up to mordor standards in Starlits at the very minimum significantly hinders players.

    Just go and read the other 17page long thread, this is not a raider only issue. Sure you dont need maxed LI's to do landscape, but the difference you will notice between one, and one that gets a SOE thrown its way every once in awhile is huge.

    And lowering currently barter prices/adding new barters absolutely is not a huge work load when we've seen in the past this done many times even with out it being requested such as separating the Figments barterer into their own NPC, something I didnt see asked of anywhere on the forums (link me if so) but just appeared one update. So your festivals and store content will still get all the focus they need, the fixes needed for this horrendous system are easy to implement.

    Ironfold instance dropped SOE's now have a fellowship tradable timer and bind to account when it runs out (binds to character if you arent online when the timer finishes) so yeah thats a load of doodoo. SSG seems to be consciously making decisions to simply annoy us on the matter. Guess its better than blatantly ignoring it :thinking:

    And go check out all those Anvil increased damage threads, sure seems like a lot of people atleast do T2 of the raid and dont like seeing it becoming slightly out of commission. And even if they arent doing T3, T2 could still go to have maxed LI's
    Do you have split personality disorder? This is what you said to me yesterday:

    Can people like, chill?

    This update wont be months like some of you are exaggerating about, Id say confidently we would see it next week.

    Its an old old game with a "spaghetti" code and a not that big developer team. This isnt Dota 2, dont expect hotfixed out within an hour of a somewhat large update, thats just unreasonable for SSG and Lotro imo

    And also chill with the critique towards devs and coord. AFAIK they dont make decisions around here, the LI system could be fixed in a day most likely by any number of devs but its not their choice to do that, or exactly when they can shutdown for an update

    And if all the rumours are true and us raiders are a super small fraction of the playerbase, then I, in SSG's footsteps, would definitely not stop everything and just get this one issue fixed.
    .

    You currently have 1337 reputation point(s).

  18. #18
    This is crazy, we DO NOT need any scrolls, crystals, coins, etc.

    The game is all about fishing! This is the new game and everyone here must stop this crazy talk about LIs. No one needs Max LIs for this true end game!



    I still need the old boot, old glove and the rusty dagger! Someone save me!


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwswim03 View Post
    Do you have split personality disorder? This is what you said to me yesterday:

    Can people like, chill?

    This update wont be months like some of you are exaggerating about, Id say confidently we would see it next week.

    Its an old old game with a "spaghetti" code and a not that big developer team. This isnt Dota 2, dont expect hotfixed out within an hour of a somewhat large update, thats just unreasonable for SSG and Lotro imo

    And also chill with the critique towards devs and coord. AFAIK they dont make decisions around here, the LI system could be fixed in a day most likely by any number of devs but its not their choice to do that, or exactly when they can shutdown for an update

    And if all the rumours are true and us raiders are a super small fraction of the playerbase, then I, in SSG's footsteps, would definitely not stop everything and just get this one issue fixed.
    No i dont but thanks for resorting to personal attacks because your argument is failing, atleast add a bit more than just a quote

    Definitely not our raid designer or cord who are making decisions about LIs so no lets not put the blame on them

    The mark/med bug has been around/reported for months and yet a bug fix has not been greenlit and i can only guess that it hasnt been greenlit because it would help with the soe grind. Im not demanding it be fixed 2 days after the bug was discovered, but when something like this has been around for months it gets frustrating that it wont get fixed.

    That quote from me was focused at people who are all up in a riot over a bug not getting fixed in a day or 2, this thread is about an issue that has been prevalent for months, almost years, at the level it is right now, something that impacts more than just the raiding community.

    Maybe the contradicting part you are referencing is my chat about how many raiders there are, to which i will say the amount of them is not enough to warrant stopping everything to try and get a hotfix out in just a day or 2 but rather having us wait simply a few more days. Though small, yes, i think the playerbase that atleast does t2 anvil is larger than people give credit for.
    Last edited by Olebenny; Jun 16 2019 at 09:49 AM.
    Lvl 120 Guard - Olebenny || Lvl 120 Guard - Theoderad || Lvl 120 Guard - Estelrian || Lvl 120 Runekeeper - Leegun || Lvl 120 Mini - Nathorean || Lvl 120 Champion - Cephrial
    Leader of Raiders Beneath the Shadow - Arkenstone
    What more does one need in LotRO than a lot of morale and a shield?

  20. #20
    Join Date
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    I don't think this is yet another raiders v. non-raiders issue. The players really affected by the massive (indeed, near-impossible) grind necessary to max out LIs are, firstly, people with alts, and secondly, new players. I happen to be in the happy situation of being an old raider with but a single character to look after (my alts are merely for messing around, and I have no desire to take any of them raiding), and as a result, my LIs, including variants, are all long-since maxed out and I'm sitting on a modest stack of scrolls to see me through future improvements.

    This is patently not good enough, as players in my situation must be a small percentage of the player base. You could argue that altaholics are a special player subset, who chose to go through the (to me!) sheer masochism of grinding several alts all the way to endgame raiding status. What worries me more about the current situation is the effect on new players, when they hit the brick wall of upgrading their otherwise useless LIs. A solution absolutely must be found, if the game is to remain healthy in the medium to long term.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anaxapart View Post
    I don't think this is yet another raiders v. non-raiders issue. The players really affected by the massive (indeed, near-impossible) grind necessary to max out LIs are, firstly, people with alts, and secondly, new players. I happen to be in the happy situation of being an old raider with but a single character to look after (my alts are merely for messing around, and I have no desire to take any of them raiding), and as a result, my LIs, including variants, are all long-since maxed out and I'm sitting on a modest stack of scrolls to see me through future improvements.

    This is patently not good enough, as players in my situation must be a small percentage of the player base. You could argue that altaholics are a special player subset, who chose to go through the (to me!) sheer masochism of grinding several alts all the way to endgame raiding status. What worries me more about the current situation is the effect on new players, when they hit the brick wall of upgrading their otherwise useless LIs. A solution absolutely must be found, if the game is to remain healthy in the medium to long term.
    i think the issue is the dev team is focused on only the essentials and rightfully so. the priority needs to be on festivals and making the store more essential. these will bring the players back to fill the servers and dare i say maybe cause closed servers to be back online as the player base grows!
    dont worry the dev's are working on a fix that fixes the fix that fixed the fix that was fixing the fix....

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
    Posts
    21,134
    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    But mithril coins cost Real World money, barring very rare drops. (I once got 200 MC as a gold Hobbit present. I don't expect ever to see another.) And some of us simply don't have the Real World money to spend on the game. (Best $199 I ever spent was a lifetime membership at SoA launch; if I hadn't done that, I wouldn't be playing now.)

    Time is money, it's said; and having time but no money, I grind for SoEs and Starlits. I do it because the landscape (in Ered Mithrin; I have no idea what the Vales are like, not having tried to go there) has got to the point where one needs a maxed-out ILI to survive there. This is probably not what SSG were intending; but it's what they got.
    I have an LI that is not maxed out with armor with third rate essences and I’m doing fine. My skills as a gamer are mediocre at best. The Vale is very doable.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    5,885
    Quote Originally Posted by Anaxapart View Post
    I don't think this is yet another raiders v. non-raiders issue. The players really affected by the massive (indeed, near-impossible) grind necessary to max out LIs are, firstly, people with alts, and secondly, new players. I happen to be in the happy situation of being an old raider with but a single character to look after (my alts are merely for messing around, and I have no desire to take any of them raiding), and as a result, my LIs, including variants, are all long-since maxed out and I'm sitting on a modest stack of scrolls to see me through future improvements.

    This is patently not good enough, as players in my situation must be a small percentage of the player base. You could argue that altaholics are a special player subset, who chose to go through the (to me!) sheer masochism of grinding several alts all the way to endgame raiding status. What worries me more about the current situation is the effect on new players, when they hit the brick wall of upgrading their otherwise useless LIs. A solution absolutely must be found, if the game is to remain healthy in the medium to long term.
    This guy. If you have one toon and you only play one toon (and have for more than a few months) your LI is probably maxed or close to it. This is only a problem for people with a plethora of alts. The system was never intended for you to have ten alts all with maxed lis without a lot of effort. That’s kind of the point of a legendary weapon. It grows with you. If you make an alt and power it to 120 to raid with, you don’t get to have a maxed LI magically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    I have an LI that is not maxed out with armor with third rate essences and I’m doing fine. My skills as a gamer are mediocre at best. The Vale is very doable.
    This guy as well. You can do landscape content in crafted gear.

    You can do t3 raid with level 450 LI’s as almost any class. In fact, star lit crystals are so much more critical to legendary items than scrolls are. I’m glad they have put these critical items everywhere for people to obtain.
    .

    You currently have 1337 reputation point(s).

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    341
    Quote Originally Posted by cwswim03 View Post
    You can do t3 raid with level 450 LI’s as almost any class. In fact, star lit crystals are so much more critical to legendary items than scrolls are. I’m glad they have put these critical items everywhere for people to obtain.
    Yeah sure if you want to significantly disadvantage yourself over other people, I suppose it is possible to do it. Some classes like a LM and guard dont even need an Imbued sword to still be effective, those arguments exist, I yield on that

    And yeah starlits and SOE are available at vendors like MT dailies, Throne, Big Battles, Morgul Crests but thats not the main point here, I and many others want endgame/current stuff to run to work on increasing our LI's. I pay my VIP to have access to new areas, not old areas, not even the moors (I just dont PVP, I know a good amount of yall do) I also just dont have time to run MT daileis every day along with other dailies, I get in my Rakos each week and thats about it.

    One thing that still gets me is how absolutely corrupt/greedy/blatantly not caring for these types of things SSG is pulling off. Back at lvl 105 we could get SOE/Starlits from so many current ways. For example
    -Dailies gave you 6 scrolls?
    -Full Throne T2C clear netted you 20 scrolls or 10 starlits and then more via marks/medallions
    -DoS/SS Guaranteed you 2 scrolls via Morgul Crests and more via marks/medallions

    And now what?
    -Dailies give you literally 0
    -A full T3 raid clear guarantees you 0, you might at max get 4, but most likely will only get 2 scrolls since they seem to have a <50% drop rate. And if you get lucky you maybe get 1 crystal to drop, MAYBE. (and 0 marks/meds from T3)
    -A full T2 guarantees you 0, and I think you might get enough marks/meds for 1.5-2 scrolls? Since IIRC 2 of the bosses dont drop marks and meds. No way of getting starlits, they and scrolls dont even drop
    -The 3/6mans might give you 2 max, MIGHT, and now they are bound when you get them as of u24.1. Marks/meds dont drop on last boss of TG T3 properly also so...

    There was a time at lvl 105 that Turbine slashed prices on SOE's accross the board. Store/Throne/Morgul Crest/Dailies, everywhere the prices got slashed for a week just as "Hey guys, we know the grind is a bit up there so here you go, have a little breather" thing. And what does SSG do? Remove CoS farm, refuse to fix bugs that prevent the people that need SOE the most from getting them via their preferred choice of content, pull us in on the promise of a LI revamp and hope its enough to sway us over as they milk in store sales. Which btw, let me just remind people...

    In order to max one LI via MC (the cheaper way) it would cost you...
    30 level upgrades possible per legacy * 7 legacies = 210 upgrades
    10 MC per upgrade * 210 = 2100 MC per LI
    250 MC for 2000 LP. 2100/250 = 8 purchases of 250 and 1 purchase of 100.
    8 * 2000 + 850 = 16,850 LP = ~$153

    Thats just 1 LI and not including Star Lit upgrades. Who is spending all this money to the point SSG wants them to keep doing it? I guess there are some crazy rich and simply crazy people out there...
    Lvl 120 Guard - Olebenny || Lvl 120 Guard - Theoderad || Lvl 120 Guard - Estelrian || Lvl 120 Runekeeper - Leegun || Lvl 120 Mini - Nathorean || Lvl 120 Champion - Cephrial
    Leader of Raiders Beneath the Shadow - Arkenstone
    What more does one need in LotRO than a lot of morale and a shield?

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Olebenny View Post
    simply crazy people out there...
    I would include in this, anyone who has three, four, five alts or more at cap and ILIs with the intent to be raid ready.


    I have one raid ready and that's enough. The SoE grind is long and stupid and I'll not do it again. I sure don't want to spend all my spare time constantly pruning my characters, when the game always find a way to set you back, only to do it again. I won't subject myself to that kind of crazy.
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

 

 
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