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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post
    You are missing the "bribe" you got to get acceptance of the new system. Already completed ranks got a big boost in the transfer. The boost had diminishing returns the higher rank you were, hence why true completionist were pissed off in beta. They get to maybe rank 5 up to max now. Just happen to be in the sweet spot and you can get the majority to max by knocking out the deeds the completionist doesn't have available any more. It's all on the beta forums...

    Not surprisingly there are no new players to fight a cause they have no knowledge of. They don't know they are going to start playing yet. They have no clue what the end-game grind will do to their sanity either. And certainly not a flipping idea that they will never gain the virtue ranks of the corrupt veterans who let this in without a fuss.

    You should know that you are being Flung a ####.
    Well, I didn't beta test any of it. I gave up on Beta after Mordor proved that beta testing and feedback, equates to absolutely nothing. I just went with the flow when it hit live, so I wasn't around to make a fuss. Making a fuss gets us nowhere, as has been proven so many times in the past, present and no doubt, in the future.

    My main is what you call a "true" completionist. She has a completely empty deed log apart from a handful of deeds in the Grey mountains to thrash out. They were not done because I abandoned the main servers and went over to the LS. Yes, I am now in a position where I'm not capped on all virtues, but . . . we just had new content, and a virtue cap raise (no different to virtue cap rises we've had before, over the years). As long as I can max all my virtues by the time the next level cap/virtue cap arrives, then it's working ok in my book. Nobody should expect to see a new virtue cap arrive and then instantly be at it. It's meant to last the duration of the content/level cap. The same can be said for LI's, they raise the cap, and then players have some work to do to get to the new cap on those.

    As for the end game grind and new players, that's been a dead duck for a long while now, and it didn't come about purely as a result of this new virtue system. It's why the LS is so popular, and why many players are busy in other games (many that I know personally and from in the game, that no longer play LOTRO).

    I haven't checked on a lower alt yet, and I can't check on my main on EN as she has completed everything, but do the deeds in the instance tabs still award VXP? Anyone know?
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  2. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by JimhadaUK View Post
    Where is this 1000 VXP you are on about?

    You get 2000 VXP for completing each Quests of the... Explorer of the.. and Slayer of the... and a further 2000 VXP for completing the wrapper Deeds of the...
    So unless you are killing a mob for the last kill of last slayer for the last quest of an area just as you jump onto the last explorer spot... I dont see this as being a problem.
    I'd just like to point out that the implied VXP awards for Wildermore Slayer meta, and the overall meta are absent. I didn't check the other metas there. There may be other missing rewards. So what happens if we get an update where that inconsistency gets fixed? If we're lucky enough to get the rewards from deeds completed when such a fix hits, we're going to get a huge pile of VXP going *wherever* unless we play daily with sufficiently frequent logins to catch the patch notes and get virtues slotted to receive the points.

    Which is more of an answer to someone else's question. To yours, you can easily be doing slayer deeds last in an area and get 2000VXP for the last advanced slayer deed, the meta for slayer deeds, and the overall area meta, for 6000 VXP all at once.

  3. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post

    My main is what you call a "true" completionist. She has a completely empty deed log apart from a handful of deeds in the Grey mountains to thrash out. They were not done because I abandoned the main servers and went over to the LS. Yes, I am now in a position where I'm not capped on all virtues, but . . . we just had new content, and a virtue cap raise (no different to virtue cap rises we've had before, over the years). As long as I can max all my virtues by the time the next level cap/virtue cap arrives, then it's working ok in my book. Nobody should expect to see a new virtue cap arrive and then instantly be at it. It's meant to last the duration of the content/level cap.
    You've just illustrated the problem the thread is about. Existing high (and particularly cap level) players aren't going to see a problem because they got the New System Conversion Bonus, which gave them far more credit for previously completed deeds than a new player will get. As a result, maxing out *your* (you specifically, along with similarly well established characters) virtues is completely doable.

    This thread is about new characters and players. The title of the thread is slightly inartful, in that today's new player can get rank 60 virtues across the board, if he does all the deeds and gets to level cap, and then does the weeklies for a year and a half. So, close to two years from today (because he can't start the endgame dailies until he gets to 120, and 'doing all the deeds' is going to take some time). However, we know Minas Morgul is coming, and we generally see level increases every year, so what happens when the level goes up? There will be VXP for new deeds and new endgame dailies, but if the design philosophy stays the same, those will be just enough to give *you* something to do until the next raise. And it will be doable and therefore seem reasonable to *you*. But today's new player won't be caught up with you when the expansion hits (assuming it doesn't take two years to arrive), which means he has no hope of reaching the cap before the next raise, and so on.

    It's not about instant gratification, it's that the new guy literally cannot ever catch up.

  4. #129
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    You may be right about the 2k VXP for the mini-metas, and I will put advancement in a separate tab and log it, though again, from a true new player perspective this is even more byzantine.

    However, I did dutifully note down a short trek with my new cappie yesterday. I think I'm going to roll a baby champ for test 3 and logging, since they're a lot easier to do the slayer deeds on, and I main a champ anyway. I was trying to get to a mini-meta as quickly as possible, trying to figure out the weird overspill on the first toon I was running after the changes.

    Remember, at level 10, you can only slot two virtues, and set one more to earning. And if something has no ranks, you can't slot it.

    The Captain's Log:

    Set Compassion to earning.


    Level 9, first virtue earned from Places of the Dwarfs. This gives:

    2 ranks of Compassion

    Slot Compassion, set Innocence to earning.

    Level 9, second virtue earned from Life of a Bounder, part 1. This gives:

    2 ranks of Innocence

    Both Compassion and Innocence now slotted and Innocence earning.

    Level 10, Sights of the Shire, this gives:

    2 ranks of Innocence, so we're at 4 Innocence and 2 Compassion. I set Compassion to earning.

    Level 10, complete Farms of the Shire. This earns 3000 vxp (meta deed completion, there's 1000 extra for finishing Shire exploration - if I haven't misread the chat text). This brings us up to:

    5 Compassion
    5 Innocence

    Since I'm maxed for level on these two, I set Honour as my earning virtue.

    ----------------------

    Every deed gives two ranks at low level. We know that's all going to change later on, but again, for a new person, or a person using a tortoise stone, you're just hooped in the low levels. How do you keep all of this in your head while you're - playing the game? Especially if you're new? I also dislike that if you screw up in Bree and the Shire, you can hurt your progress in later levels when it all slows down and you had overspill to other virtues when you were level 13 or so.
    Last edited by Frace; Jun 19 2019 at 12:16 PM.

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicka View Post
    New beorning, locked at 11, slotted virtues Wit (r5), Honour (r5) and Innocence (r4). I had Honour or Innocence selected to earn VXP.

    Completed the 6 Shire slayer deeds for VXP. The 6 individual slayer deeds granted 2000 VXP each plus the completed Slayer Deed for another 2000 VXP, total 14000 VXP.

    Received the following alert -- Your earning virtue has reached its current cap and can no longer gain virtue experience. Once all virtues have reached their current cap, you cannot gain more virtue experience until you gain more character levels.

    Did I lose any VPX?


    (I normally complete most deeds per area and my virtues tend to be 2 to 4 ranks above what my level allows.)

    Thanks Vicka

    Your post managed to escape to page 3 in the confusion but provides some telling evidence. I think you are ok, you should not loose VXP until all your virtues are at cap.

    Highlighting " Your earning virtue has reached its current cap and can no longer gain virtue experience. Once all virtues have reached their current cap, you cannot gain more virtue experience until you gain more character levels."

    Taking this literally it's like loosing currency excesses that has a cap imposed on it.


    So for all intents you can loose VXP and the 30(31) over caps are just on the transfer process so you don't loose on that as well.

    It explains Mirkwood releasing early because many were sitting at the cap or above after the transfer and any further deeds they did after capping Wit would be throwing away VXP. Also explains the rather speedy answer on the stream to those players with the promise that their issues would soon go away with a cap rise.

    There are 22 virtue earning deeds in Mirkwood and Enedwaith with virtue cap only going up by 2 ranks.

    At rank 30 and 31 it's 1400 to rank up each so 2800 X 21 = 58800 VXP more space to absorb vxp into the system. The VXP that completing the 22 deed gives is 2000 X 22 = 44000
    Difference of 14000 to absorb the overcaps from the transfer. It's cutting it close so pays to start avoiding deeds if you had been a completionist through to Lothlorien.

    And absolutely screams that deeding in the early game is a real no no. Your VXP will be spread so thin that you can't focus on the 5 to 8 favourites until later when the virtue deeds dry up. Kind of sucks on the LSs if you are waiting on content, can't knock out deeds now.
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  6. #131
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    Baille also brought up how the virtues we need may change yet again, based on SSG's whim.

    So I'm a new player. The virtue grind, from what I can see, is going to be somewhat unforgiving, even from an early stage.

    How do I know:

    What virtues should I be working on now?

    How can I psychically divine what virtues might be more useful the next time classes/'gear/stats get worked on?

    Why should I have to think about this at level 12, anyway?

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frace View Post
    Baille also brought up how the virtues we need may change yet again, based on SSG's whim.

    So I'm a new player. The virtue grind, from what I can see, is going to be somewhat unforgiving, even from an early stage.

    How do I know:

    What virtues should I be working on now?

    How can I psychically divine what virtues might be more useful the next time classes/'gear/stats get worked on?

    Why should I have to think about this at level 12, anyway?
    You shouldn't be worrying about which Virtues you should work on.
    This is a game and the point used to be to have fun.
    Working?
    Well I play on the LS but I am playing "naked" so I work on Virtues so that I can somewhat mitigate the lack of gear.
    Anyone playing "regular" mode shouldn't worry at all about Virtues. Just slot what looks good to you and you can focus on refining your choices later when you need something to do between updates.
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  8. #133
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    But this is my point, too! I'm in Middle Earth! I'm really in Middle Earth! Okay, I started playing just before Moria released, but I do remember that feeling, and whatever other problems the game has, the world building in those early levels is the best I've ever seen. That the world building is so good is why I so often go back and run a toon up to 50 and just stop there.

    So as a new player - I'm in the Shire! OMG, I can go inside Bag End and poke around! Look, there's a statue of the Bullroarer up on the Greenfields! There's Old Odo's Farm!

    Meanwhile, I remain blissfully unaware of that virtue panel lurking someplace, and for every deed I complete, two ranks of virtue are going....somewhere. It's going to be a while before I become aware of this.

    Or I've already read about it, I'm prepared. But I have to keep opening the damned thing and switching my earning virtues every time I do something if I want to get full benefit, and potentially not hoop my character later on because of all that overflow to Determination, Honesty, and wherever else it went that I wouldn't want it to go.

    So I'm either destroying my new player experience, or potentially wrecking my character's progression.

    Games are supposed to be fun and engaging, and for those first levels, Lotro really shines on both counts.

    Please, please don't ruin the experience for me, SSG!

    Get what I mean here?


    Quote Originally Posted by Boraxxe View Post
    You shouldn't be worrying about which Virtues you should work on.
    This is a game and the point used to be to have fun.
    Working?
    Well I play on the LS but I am playing "naked" so I work on Virtues so that I can somewhat mitigate the lack of gear.
    Anyone playing "regular" mode shouldn't worry at all about Virtues. Just slot what looks good to you and you can focus on refining your choices later when you need something to do between updates.

  9. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Frace View Post
    The Captain's Log:
    Situation: Nominal.


    (Sorry, couldn't resist)

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    but do the deeds in the instance tabs still award VXP? Anyone know?
    I'm going to say Yes. It will still only be for Angmar, Eregion and Early Moria still though. They didn't have time to review and increase the sources in the later game to match the quantity in the lower game. Far Anorien for example doesn't have any virtues on any actual Advanced Slayers not even the slayer meta, just a few on the explorers. As before U24.

    All signs are none of the old sources have been cut or added to.



    One issue we have is that originally the intent was for the deeds to earn just 1000 VXP and the system was designed to handle this level of input.


    You better be sitting down for this next bit. --- We did make some ground in the beta, showing SSG that this figure would wipe out half the earning possibilities in the old game.
    They upped the rewards to 2000 vxp but still had a system designed to handle the 1000, 2000 and at most 3000 metas not double these values.

    In thinking this was all that was needed they then increased the costs a bit more going from 75,000 vxp to max to 86,000 vxp to max each virtue to 60. They also gave an small addition to the boost the veterans were getting on top.

    But the unfairness to new players is all in the cost increases. Cord did says any dev diary would only come after the release but he used the stream to read out a yet to be publish document detailing some of the new costs in the later ranks. Nothing in black and white and nothing we could easily scrutinize. And with no more betas nothing we could test.
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  11. #136
    I really wonder, why they made the virtue update like they did. Why didn't they just convert ep from deeds exactly as if done by the new system. Cant be that hard, can it? I mean... in which world does it make sense to create a new system and convert old effort by a randomly thought out formula instead of by the new system?

    Just seeing things like: "if one was at 20,21,22,23,24 before, one now is at 50; 50,x; 51; 51,x etc." doesnt make sense. The new system clearly sais: any deed you finish gives out at least one virtue rank (as they are all 2000EP+). So how can a +1 higher rank before the system not convert into at least +1 afterwards? And how is it realistic to end with ~50 if it was 20 before? I dont have all the numbers, but the change certainly doesnt make sense.

    I totally like the new system and clearly prefer it. It would be awesome, if the new system had always been there from the beginning.

    Yet, the conversion of old -> new doesnt make sense.
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  12. #137
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    Frace

    People will be able to totally ignore the virtue panel. It will default to gradually ranking up all virtues in turn. Have a peek occasionally and see if there are any to slot. The catch up for new players is so piled up against them why not something else to spoilt their time in ME?

    They won't know that they can just avoid it for a few levels until they get to grips with the rest of the game. However the people who can completely ignore virtues are those who will ignore any amount of game mechanics anyway.

    None of us will have understood why certain virtues completely lost their appeal for certain classes and other virtues suddenly became far more useful. That it has happened and we are to infer that the devs must know best we can't use a Palantir to see a future mistake getting the same coverup because someone else get to say release it and it's too late after that.


    We have sayings like cover all bases and not all eggs in one basket for a reason. We can maybe assume that Honesty and Valour will never appear together on anyone's slotted choices. But do we really know, can we ever be sure?

    So figure out how much you are prepared to do to advance virtues and target as many virtues as you can reasonably cap. Just know your limits and don't rank up virtue not in the plan because you have deeds to complete in the early game, save them for later for the lean times or when someone thinks to over tweak a virtue's stats. And save enough LP to buy valar items at the upper level requirement to fix things.

    To an extent Lord.Funk's idea that the new virtue system was a plan to limit LP earning has actually proven true. You'll eventually get that LP but to manage how your virtues will turn out by the cap you have to delay the gratification or be ranking up non ideal virtues, well ones we can hope won't become must haves.


    Gone will be calls for Grans Stairs Deeds run on level, you can leave that last Dwarf corpse in place behind the Watcher. You'll fear Moria worms, hell 4k vxp, I can't be dealing with that. Maybe that's a bit too bleak a view. I'm not going to be levelling a new toon though.
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  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post
    I'm going to say Yes. It will still only be for Angmar, Eregion and Early Moria still though. They didn't have time to review and increase the sources in the later game to match the quantity in the lower game. Far Anorien for example doesn't have any virtues on any actual Advanced Slayers not even the slayer meta, just a few on the explorers. As before U24.

    All signs are none of the old sources have been cut or added to.



    One issue we have is that originally the intent was for the deeds to earn just 1000 VXP and the system was designed to handle this level of input.


    You better be sitting down for this next bit. --- We did make some ground in the beta, showing SSG that this figure would wipe out half the earning possibilities in the old game.
    They upped the rewards to 2000 vxp but still had a system designed to handle the 1000, 2000 and at most 3000 metas not double these values.

    In thinking this was all that was needed they then increased the costs a bit more going from 75,000 vxp to max to 86,000 vxp to max each virtue to 60. They also gave an small addition to the boost the veterans were getting on top.

    But the unfairness to new players is all in the cost increases. Cord did says any dev diary would only come after the release but he used the stream to read out a yet to be publish document detailing some of the new costs in the later ranks. Nothing in black and white and nothing we could easily scrutinize. And with no more betas nothing we could test.
    Well, they really need to look into how a new player can max up their virtues by the time they reach a level cap content. Meaning, they should be as close to cap as is feasible when they reach the cap, and then, the cap content should carry them to the end, or very close to it, like is in my case on my main capped alt (I'm close, but it won't go all the way without the weekly end game content - which is fine as it's there for me to grind). All virtues should be earn-able within game play. Sure, add lootbox gambles for those that wish to play a game of chance to speed things up if they really, really must monetise, but the basics should be in game.
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  14. #139
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    I think it's going to be like this, Arnenna: Play the game. Early levels you will be spilling VXP to virtues you don't want. Probably post-Moria it'll start to change a bit, or maybe when you get to Dunland. Then there will be a long dry spell that the Valar is waiting to fix when you're 94 or 104.

    It's not good design when a new player (and we do get them, we have a lot of new player posts on reddit) has to map out the path to 120 by the time they're level 6 or so, skip a bunch of quests and deeds, level with as few deeds as possible, and come back and do things later. Especially bad because the early zones are so charming, and once you're in Moria, every time you stumble, you've hit another deed.

    Let us know how it goes with Mirkwood and Enedwaith.

  15. #140
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    By and large, virtue system is no big deal. Look at the virtue stats, consider what makes sense for your class. Mainstats except vitality are generally trash, more tac mit always good for might/agi classes, damage classes can always use more mastery. Phys mit tends to cap for tanks even without essences. Select virtues that seem like a good match, 5 mains plus 2-3 backups.
    Consider following: slotting 5 virtues for max tac mit bonus(fidelity, tolerance, compassion, honor, innocence) adds about 26k tac mit at max, roughly 3 mithrin essences worth. Slotting for max mastery: less than 2 essences worth. Meaning depending on your/game needs you might choose slightly different essences for your endgame gear, i.e. a mastery or finesse essence intstead of a mitigation one.

    Looking at deeds in general, I don't think most players will have too many problems keeping 7-8 virtues maxed as ling as they complete area questlines. Say you arrive to endgame with 8 max virtues, 7 defensive, 1 offensive. And the rest at 0.

    Your difference from someone with all 21 virtues at max:
    465*7=3255 morale (most 120s have 150k+ morale, tanks over 300k)
    1067*6=6402 mastery (most 120s have well over 200k mastery, classes like hunter well over 300k)

    Don't you see just how irrelevant it is to max them all?

  16. #141
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    This is only true if you know beforehand, and don't do anymore deeds than absolutely necessary at low levels.

    New people will not know this.

    Many NOT new people will not know this.

    People with a tortoise stone, or just generally people who enjoy doing all the content on level are not going to be happy.

    I don't care about maxing all the virtues on new characters. But I'd like to be able to max the 6 or 8 I'll need, plus some room for if/when things change. And I'd also like to play the content at level.

    So I have to choose: Do I have fun in the lower levels playing the way I want to, or do I align my playing to making sure I don't cut off my ability to max out the right virtues, with a bit left for a rainy day when things change?

  17. #142
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    IMHO, you should play how you want, do the deeds you want. Slot virtues that most benefit the stats making sense for your class. (Any new guy who cares about their stats would ask on forums etc) yeah you might lose some vxp. Not end of the world.
    At lower levels you may spread out across many virtues. Which will actually benefit you at the time. Case in point: for level 60, 30 rank is max, takes 35k vxp, gives 72 morale passive bonus.
    You spread that vxp out, same 35k will take 4 virtues to rank 9 each, total 88 morale passive bonus. At lower levels, it is beneficial to go wide, at least once your slotted are max.
    Chances are as you go through 80s content, even with tortoise you might find on-level deeds drying up before maxing everything. But then again, there are festivals. Completionists typically go for those, and they will give vxp.
    Past 100, you likely WILL start giving serious thought to which virtues you want to stress. And I would say there should be more than enough deeds to get your selects from whatever rank they are to max.

    Really, not something to obsess about.

  18. #143
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    Which 8 are you going to aim to max out by endgame? If you care. If you don't want to be back on the forums down the line with a rank zero virtue that you'd wished you had worked on.

    Whether you want to or not why should those veterans get so many free ranks in the transfer?
    Why would you pile even more grind onto a new player that wants to stand up to endgame content without feeling cheated?


    There might be some lengthy research and mathematics to determine where the sweet spot is for switching over to a targeted 8 or 10 max rank virtue setup from a broad rank all virtues approach.

    I'm thinking a headache would be preferable atm. Sadly the Virtues by Region on the wiki stops at Rohan. That might be a good point to start.

    But how are peeps to know what will be require when the journey ends? I'll be alright, I can get my 120s to cap on all virtues and I'm covering all eventualities. The only character I have that I'd have slightest interest in levelling right now has her BoA in her vault already and a plan for where I want every virtue rank to be at when she uses it at 104. God forbid anyone who open the BoV and uses the virtue pills without the levels to accommodate the gains.


    No a new player should not have to plan this far ahead to make the best of it.
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  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frace View Post
    This is only true if you know beforehand, and don't do anymore deeds than absolutely necessary at low levels.

    New people will not know this.

    Many NOT new people will not know this.

    People with a tortoise stone, or just generally people who enjoy doing all the content on level are not going to be happy.

    I don't care about maxing all the virtues on new characters. But I'd like to be able to max the 6 or 8 I'll need, plus some room for if/when things change. And I'd also like to play the content at level.

    So I have to choose: Do I have fun in the lower levels playing the way I want to, or do I align my playing to making sure I don't cut off my ability to max out the right virtues, with a bit left for a rainy day when things change?
    SSG know that 90% wouldn't get to the second page of this thread, they'll have no clue. And be happy!

    Before all the maths is done you could safely just stop at finishing advanced slayer deeds for now, you get to do all the content and other explorer deeds.
    Last edited by Ballie; Jun 19 2019 at 05:49 PM.
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  20. #145
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    Since the sandbox design of doing 'this' with the feeling of accomplishment for doing 'that' is gone. The five slots should be the only areas flagged as 'earning' but not the rest. If it's not slotted and selected, it's not earning. Allow new players to slot what they want. Allow them to select one of the five or possibly selecting all of the them (the five) to 'earn'.
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  21. #146
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    It goes without saying that the system is very poorly implemented, and transition is rather badly executed.
    - The benefits of virtues were reshuffled.
    - No option to reset and redistribute, not even a on-time one for veterans.
    - Old system had more than enough deeds available to max all virtues. New one does not.
    - New method of determining which virtue gets updated is confusing and unintuitive.
    - Old system allowed overcapping a desired virtue. New system either shuffles advancement to potentially undesired, or wastes it alltogether.
    - Needlessly large numbers: shaving last two zeros off all vxp numers would be nice.

    The system would be best implemented same way as legacy ranking on pre-imbue LIs. Points go to a pool, then I can choose what to rank up. If needed, there is a reset option.

    To show how convoluted new system is:
    I like benefits provided by virtues A,B,C,D,E so I got them slotted.
    I also want F,G and H virtues available as swaps so they are second priority.
    I find virtues X,Y,Z useless so they are at 0.
    Unless I monitor my vxp intake real careful, the system will doggedly, obstinately try to stuff vxp into X,Y,Z.
    Suppose I got A-D capped and E is near cap. Before completing next deed, I need to:
    - slot F instead of A.
    - set E to earning
    Then vxp will go to F once E caps. Then I con slot A back and set F to earning. Once F gets close, I have to slot G instead of A while keeping F earning. And then OOPS this was the last slayer! F caps, G caps, and most of that meta-deed 4k vxp ends up in X with no way to revert.

    I seriously have no idea who comes up with those designs.

    All above in mind, most players should be able to just slot some universally useful stat virtues and forget it. Come endgame, unless you invested in virtues totally useless for your class (i.e. Zeal for an LM) you just round things out with essences.

  22. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    It goes without saying that the system is very poorly implemented, and transition is rather badly executed.
    - The benefits of virtues were reshuffled.
    - No option to reset and redistribute, not even a on-time one for veterans.
    - Old system had more than enough deeds available to max all virtues. New one does not.
    - New method of determining which virtue gets updated is confusing and unintuitive.
    - Old system allowed overcapping a desired virtue. New system either shuffles advancement to potentially undesired, or wastes it alltogether.
    - Needlessly large numbers: shaving last two zeros off all vxp numers would be nice.

    The system would be best implemented same way as legacy ranking on pre-imbue LIs. Points go to a pool, then I can choose what to rank up. If needed, there is a reset option.

    To show how convoluted new system is:
    I like benefits provided by virtues A,B,C,D,E so I got them slotted.
    I also want F,G and H virtues available as swaps so they are second priority.
    I find virtues X,Y,Z useless so they are at 0.
    Unless I monitor my vxp intake real careful, the system will doggedly, obstinately try to stuff vxp into X,Y,Z.
    Suppose I got A-D capped and E is near cap. Before completing next deed, I need to:
    - slot F instead of A.
    - set E to earning
    Then vxp will go to F once E caps. Then I con slot A back and set F to earning. Once F gets close, I have to slot G instead of A while keeping F earning. And then OOPS this was the last slayer! F caps, G caps, and most of that meta-deed 4k vxp ends up in X with no way to revert.

    I seriously have no idea who comes up with those designs.

    All above in mind, most players should be able to just slot some universally useful stat virtues and forget it. Come endgame, unless you invested in virtues totally useless for your class (i.e. Zeal for an LM) you just round things out with essences.
    Well put, its exactly this that baffles me the most, its like they tried extra hard and put in extra effort to design and build a system that's needlessly complicated to use and manage, when all along they had a working template to use in the character trait trees and the MC trait trees. Just award us a pool of VXP that we have earned and can add when completing deeds and allow us to allocate points from that pool into whatever and however many virtues we want to, if we leave some points in the pool to be used when the level cap rises, so be it, we then take the hit on having lower passive bonuses while we do that.

    If we decide to max out our most used 5 or 7 or 10 or whatever virtues and then spread whats left over the remaining unwanted virtues just for the passive bonuses then again fine, just means we have to level up each time the cap rises, but its flexible to each players desires. Why they decided to build a system that works the way this one does is beyond me, a system you have to micromanage to get your points to go where you want them to, no idea who came up with this whole concept but it seems like they tried to be too clever, tried to re-invent the wheel and overthink it, for something that really didn't need it.

  23. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    - Needlessly large numbers: shaving last two zeros off all vxp numers would be nice.
    The large numbers have a potential use, in that you can subdivide them easily.

    Say you want to give a virtue rank for a weekly wrapper, currently 2000VXP for max rank. You could have a weekly quest that requires 5 daily wrappers which gives 1000VXP and each daily wrapper gives 200 VXP. You could then give 100VXP for the daily wrapper (say it requires 5 daily repeatables) and 20VXP for each daily repeatable. Now you can weight each of these things for the time it takes (on level), so if you intend a standard daily repeatable (in this hypothetical design) to take five minutes it gets 20 VXP, but another that takes ten minutes gets 40 VXP, and one that's simpler (like a single task turn in) gets 10 VXP.

    Now, if your goal is to incentivize people playing the game, you extend VXP rewards to all repeatable content, proportioned (reduced) for the VXP costs of the rank appropriate for the level cap when that repeatable content was endgame (or hypothetically endgame, in the case of tasks). So, if (for argument's sake) rank 50 costs 1500 VXP and Epic Battles are considered level 100 content, then you'd have awards:

    180 VXP for a half hour EB (150 * 30/25 [As I suggest a daily wrapper takes 25 minutes] )
    15 VXP for each of its five minute sidequests

    With these modifications, you add value to all repeatable content in the game, while still causing players to prefer the highest level repeatable content they can run. If you still want players to prefer 'The New Area' give a 25% or 50% boost to VXP awards in that area and you're set.

    Or you can put all the extra VXP players need to (someday) cap their virtues primarily in weekly wrappers and thus only give appealing content to the people who are at endgame and have the time in a given week to do the whole thing. Which for my part isn't me. I run ten characters and try to keep them close together (though the New System Conversion bonus threw a pretty big wrench in that effort), and I'm going to try to complete the weekly wrapper for summerfest (I forget whether that was implied or stated-and can't remember where the list was for festival quests that got VXP rewards) once over the festival for each of my characters, but there's no way I can do it on all of them every week.

  24. #149
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    East coast, USA
    Posts
    2,246
    I found the 1000 VXP for the Summer festival wrapper quest. Anyone know if there is more available elsewhere in the festival, or is that the extent of the extra VXP until you get to max level repeatables?

  25. #150
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    I found the 1000 VXP for the Summer festival wrapper quest. Anyone know if there is more available elsewhere in the festival, or is that the extent of the extra VXP until you get to max level repeatables?
    You Have to Laugh:

    Quest: Too Much Festival awards 50 VXP

    They'll be in stitches around the Needham Office today.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

 

 
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