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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimhadaUK View Post
    Where is this 1000 VXP you are on about?

    You get 2000 VXP for completing each Quests of the... Explorer of the.. and Slayer of the... and a further 2000 VXP for completing the wrapper Deeds of the...
    So unless you are killing a mob for the last kill of last slayer for the last quest of an area just as you jump onto the last explorer spot... I dont see this as being a problem.
    The ones in the Shire give 1000. I checked the chat window text, and that's what they all said.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frace View Post
    The ones in the Shire give 1000. I checked the chat window text, and that's what they all said.
    This isn't reflected in my deed log for previously completed Shire deeds. They are all saying 2,000 VXP was earned.

    I have not run a new character through them though. You'd have to total up all the VXP you have earned according to the deed log and then compare with the combined rank advances to check they match up.

    With so much confusion you kind of have to take a chat log.

    As a guess I'd say you were seeing one virtue receiving 1000 VXP and capping and the other 1000 VXP going to another virtue. You are seeing the assigning of VXP rather than the earning. Perhaps the Earning part scrolls out of view so you don't see it.

    Take a log for the next few deed completions then come back with findings.

    Don't /bug 'til you are sure you are being swindled.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    I'm sorry. I still don't get what you're talking about. Either you are making something huge out of something small here, or I'm completely missing something that's happening in the virtue panel. I'm really not sure which. Is it that you don't want to manage your virtues and prefer the old system where X deed progressed X virtue, rather than the new system were any deed can progress any virtue?

    How would I cope with a 20K vxp arriving on a dot update when I logged out with my 5 slotted at cap and earning at a few vxp to cap? Please explain this question to me, and I may have a chance as answering it for you. If my five are capped they can't be earning. If dot updates bring anything virtue related, logic will tell me, open the virtue panel before doing anything else, to see what's what. I'm already in the swing of adding deeds that have activated while questing to tracker so that I can see them progress, so as one is close to completion, I just open the panel and ensure overflow will go where I want it to go.
    We are at different points along the discovery journey. I was on the case in BR#1 and #2 showing that having virtue deeds earning 1000 VXP would have halved the game's virtue earning potential at a stroke. I was testing a full zero to 60 ranking up process in BR#2 and again in BR#3 for comparison, discovering that transfer ranks could not possibly be generated under the new system given the costs rising. With others we were detailing the goldilocks region of virtue advancements to gain most from the skewed transfer ranks and the diminishing returns for completionists. Having near completionists in game and going through the entire deed log along side of the wiki I could make an assessment of the total VXP available in the pre-Vales game. My 0 to 60 ranking test shows me the total requirement for ranking all virtues to 60 without additional sources. Comparing these figures gives me the gap that SSG contend will be filled with festivals as you level up and by end-game weeklies.

    Tomorrow we get to see the VXP rewards for a festival meta and can continue our calculations on just how many festival and endgame vxp grinds it will take to catch up with a veteran player's virtues. We can then qualify the OP's contention with how superhuman you'd need to be to rank all virtues to 60.

    It's more to do with scientific methodology and simple, for me, maths. If you don't apply them you just throw yourself open to any shenanigans going on.

    I'm not here to enlighten you specifically, it's more to do with perhaps SSG might have the same struggles that you are having and so they can follow the process and discover what they did.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  4. #104
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    I have been going back through the lower levels completing everything.

    I completed Lothlorien last night, levelled up to L76, and got 2000VXP; I didnt look to see how it was split amongst my virtues.

    I would like to know what happens to the VXP awarded when you hit the character level virtue cap; most of my virtues went to near cap on my L75 alt, and I have had several VXP disabled warnings.
    The cap seems to have meant the 2000VXP for completing Moria was almost completely lost.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    I would like to know what happens to the VXP awarded when you hit the character level virtue cap; most of my virtues went to near cap on my L75 alt, and I have had several VXP disabled warnings.
    The cap seems to have meant the 2000VXP for completing Moria was almost completely lost.
    So not only is there no longer enough VXP in-game to actually max out virtues like before, but potentially there's also a way for people to lose some VXP earnings if they do too many deeds for that level's stat cap?

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    So not only is there no longer enough VXP in-game to actually max out virtues like before, but potentially there's also a way for people to lose some VXP earnings if they do too many deeds for that level's stat cap?
    I am completely uninterested in the complaints about there not being enough; it is obvious that more VXP deeds will be added with each new area opened, only the instant gratification crowd are moaning.

    From what is happening to my alts, either SSG have been overly generous to all existing players with how much VXP they were given, or they werent expecting people to be completing all the Instance deeds as well as landscape/quest deeds, or the scaling is a bit off at some levels.

  7. #107
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    The real question is, when will they be added back to the store due to "player demand"?

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    From what is happening to my alts, either SSG have been overly generous to all existing players with how much VXP they were given, or they werent expecting people to be completing all the Instance deeds as well as landscape/quest deeds, or the scaling is a bit off at some levels.
    I think one of the earlier builds only awarded 1000 VXP per deed, and it was a case you could not reach cap. They have jiggled figures since to 2000 VXP, but probably adjusted costs too. Not sure of the exact figures.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    I am completely uninterested in the complaints about there not being enough; it is obvious that more VXP deeds will be added with each new area opened, only the instant gratification crowd are moaning.
    It's not instant gratification if you can't achieve completion like you used to.

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    It's not instant gratification if you can't achieve completion like you used to.

    What you are asking for is the EXACT definition of instant gratification.

    My old car had a 10 gallon tank that took 5 minutes to fill

    My new car has a 20 gallon tank, why wont it fill in 5 minutes [rant]

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    So not only is there no longer enough VXP in-game to actually max out virtues like before, but potentially there's also a way for people to lose some VXP earnings if they do too many deeds for that level's stat cap?
    Well you have to get to cap on 21 virtues first..

    No one has yet piped up to say what happens when you are capped on all virtues and specifically the 60 rank and then complete a virtue deed. People who bought virtues and then did the game deeds have reported they have rank 60 on all but Wit in the transfer, but do they have deeds available to provide 86,000 VXP to cap Wit so quickly. I'd have to think that people buying virtues in the store would struggle to find page 5 of this thread.

    Items and race traits that increase virtue ranks show higher stats when you have a level limited cap but didn't when it was the game cap of 60. You'd get a 59 (60) but one more ranking up and it'd display just the 60 and the stats would not increase. This could indicate that the system handles earning over cap differently at the game cap than at a level imposed cap.

    At lower levels and on the LSs there should be enough deeds about to cap on 20 and max Wit, but again no one doing this has reported getting to this point yet to make this test.

    On my deed completion challenged alt main I'm leaving my completionist characters in the dust on capping virtues now with a load of post update deeding, the diminishing returns really hitting home. But she is still 102,000 vxp off maxing all and I'm loathed to rank Honesty and Wisdom on a champ when I could be saving for the level cap rise.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    What you are asking for is the EXACT definition of instant gratification.
    I assume English isn't your first language, because that's not anywhere near the definition. People already put the work in and hit the virtue cap before. This update removed the reward that was already granted for the prior effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    My old car had a 10 gallon tank that took 5 minutes to fill

    My new car has a 20 gallon tank, why wont it fill in 5 minutes [rant]
    Completely irrelevant and doesn't work as an analogy.

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  13. #113
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    It takes 5 minutes still because it's rationed you to 10 gallons and every day the price goes up a little.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    So not only is there no longer enough VXP in-game to actually max out virtues like before, but potentially there's also a way for people to lose some VXP earnings if they do too many deeds for that level's stat cap?
    In the game before, we could always max out five slotted virtues, and all other virtues would sit on the sideline doing nothing, unless we swapped them out, an hence, lose the benefit of the one we unslotted at the same time. Rarely, did every single virtue benefit any class. There were always some that a class had no interest in ranking up as the stats didn't apply to that class. We still have that now, where we can easily max out our five chosen virtues, except now, all the other virtues give us some form of benefit as well.

    I'm not 100% sure yet if a character can achieve all 21 virtues to rank 60 at level 120, but I'm close, and working on it. just a few more deeds runs to go and then I'll know the answer.

    Currently testing the caps on the LS to find out what happens to over-capping VXP on all 21, but that's gonna take a bit more time to conclude.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post
    I did A Level Maths and a year of it at Uni so I should be able to figure it out.. We have gone from an approx. max 30 to a max 60 system. To match, earning and ranking we'd need one completed deed to earn two ranks now.
    Up to new rank 10 this is what we get. But we know you had to do every virtue deed in the game to get old rank 30 across the board. Without increasing cost the game would provide enough old deeds to max out, just. Wiki shows it's 86,000 to max one virtue. It would be 60,000 without cost increases. Where does this 26,000 per virtue extra come from?

    Over the now 21 virtues this equates to a total shortfall of 21 X 26,000 = 546,000. Given that all the old deeds 30 (deeds done) X 20 (virtues) X 2000 earns us 1.2 million vxp it's a little under half as much again.

    We are to infer that festivals and end-game weeklies can make up for the shortfall. 273 deed completions worth?

    In order for festivals to make up the hit you suffer in the later game there would need to be a serious amount available. We can't know what VXP the festivals will provide for a few more days. But the system can not handle the 6,000 VXP hits adequately.

    You might be under the impression that because your 120 toons have high ranks that these ranks have been generated under the new mechanics. This was not so. We see our ranks between 55 and 59 and think the system is good, not far to go to cap. But if really generated under the new system we'd be getting around rank 45/47 on 20 virtues as a completionist with Wit on zero. It would hardly be popular if after all that deeding we were short by so much so we are given boosted ranks in the transfer. Those who stopped at 20 ranks would be looking at ranks in the low 30s. Late comers have festival grinds for years or come to endgame with another thing to grind on top of all the disadvantages they have reaching the cap. ILI, embers, Scrolls, traits and essence.

    They failed to do the maths on this, went to release and put themselves into an irrecoverable position. Queue the utter silence...
    Solid. Seems this is precisely what happened.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post
    No one has yet piped up to say what happens when you are capped on all virtues and specifically the 60 rank and then complete a virtue deed. People who bought virtues and then did the game deeds have reported they have rank 60 on all but Wit in the transfer, but do they have deeds available to provide 86,000 VXP to cap Wit so quickly. I'd have to think that people buying virtues in the store would struggle to find page 5 of this thread.
    From what I remember, the previous method was that when we hit the virtue cap before and earned any virtues beyond that, it would say something like 20 (21) if it was 1 extra virtue, and then when the cap rose beyond 20 it would immediately show as 21.

    Now, SSG have already messed it up so far with auto-fill VXP instead of providing a virtue point meter that you can apply as you wish, like trait points. In a virtue meter system, it would be obvious that if you take all your virtues to the cap, you're going to have left over virtue points waiting in the virtue meter. Any deeds done would simply keep filling up the VXP meter and rewarding you with virtue points that sit unspent until you want them.

    But in the current system, since nobody seems to know what happens if there's no uncapped virtue for earned VXP to spill into, it would be reasonable to assume it just gets lost. It can't be sitting nowhere waiting to be awarded, because of the auto-fill mechanic already in place. It also can't be totalling up on capped virtues waiting for a cap rise, since the mechanic forces the auto-VXP to go to the next uncapped virtue if you've not selected one. I'm definitely interested to see what the actual result is, but you're right about the sort of people that would buy virtues, and I doubt they'd be able to report back (or even notice a problem to start with).

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  17. #117
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    Ok, so I've gone as far as I can go this afternoon on my main on EN. Level 120 completionist alt. Now needs about 30 ranks of Virtue across the board, excluding Wit, which is currently on 18. I've made adjustments for ranks part earned in my calculations.

    So about 60K needed, without ranking Wit, and I have about 17K of VXP left in my log.

    So, it will be short and by quite a lot, but nowhere near 500K short.

    I've never bought a virtue, and I do not have the racial virtue bonus trait slotted. It's all been done via deeds throughout the game.

    It would have been nice to be able to complete fully, through the deeds I had not quite finished, but overall, considering the benefit I now get with all the passives, I really don't mind having to slow grind a 43K shortfall through weeklies and festivals. As long as those things stay available, then I'm ok with it. I won't ever gamble lootbox chances to get virtue ranks though.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  18. #118
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    VXP getting lost. Until someone gets in the position to test it will just be speculation. I have seen screenshots of LS players with over imposed cap virtues after the transfer, the 30(31) being displayed.

    I'd assume that many people will look at the virtues and slot those that on the face of it increase the stats your class wants. When we get to the sharp end when there are changing stat caps and diminishing returns as well as itemisation that has stats gaps we use virtues to fill gaps. At the moment we can stack critical for best gains but we don't know how long this will remain so. Once we had 400% mastery, it's now 200% giving huge diminishing returns for being well over the 200%. There are too many variables in play to just think your choice of five will be enough, at the sharp end. Never mind a virtue being taken out of you class needs by an inexplicable change. No you don't need to max them all, you don't need to get all 92 trait points, don't need maxed ILIs, don't need to grind Embers or Essence, don't need to not suck don't apparently need to read what your skills do.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  19. #119
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    1st of all i have to admit that i havent red all the thread!
    my response goes to the OP
    mate you have calculated a lot n i cant say that you r wrong or wright cos i havent
    i ll talk about my main toon
    ofc is an old character, the 1st i ve created when i started the game......
    he had everything lot above 20 still when the new system came live none of his virtues was capped!
    BUT! i ve lefted tooooo many things behind me selecting what i need
    the rest was lvled as i played!
    i really believe that a new toon if it play the content will reach a good lvl of virtue!
    dont expect to cap! this is really a LOT of work n none has the patience(a good virtue), to complete it!
    ofc this new system does not look good at all!!! i was not expecting anything that has not lot of grinding,
    it is driving directly to the shop!
    just think a bit.......... do you really need to cap virtues to play end game???
    i say just lvl up the 5 you need most!
    at least on this matter they have made a good work by letting us selecting what we want to lvl up!
    as i said ofc a new player has to work a lot, just reminding, there r places that people dont go any more
    a few examples for all, Urugath, Carn Dum, there r lots of deeds i believe they giving VXp, hidden in instances n more, just play the game!
    lvl what you need forget the rest, dont pay in the shop!!!
    just imagine a system that auto selecting what virtue gives the deed n you need some thousands of points to cap it!
    Last edited by Valakircka; Jun 19 2019 at 10:28 AM.
    lotr enthousiast since 1996, 12 years lotro player, lifetimer, Loyal member of the Spartans Kinship, now in Evernight imigrants from Eldar

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Ok, so I've gone as far as I can go this afternoon on my main on EN. Level 120 completionist alt. Now needs about 30 ranks of Virtue across the board, excluding Wit, which is currently on 18. I've made adjustments for ranks part earned in my calculations.

    So about 60K needed, without ranking Wit, and I have about 17K of VXP left in my log.

    So, it will be short and by quite a lot, but nowhere near 500K short.

    I've never bought a virtue, and I do not have the racial virtue bonus trait slotted. It's all been done via deeds throughout the game.

    It would have been nice to be able to complete fully, through the deeds I had not quite finished, but overall, considering the benefit I now get with all the passives, I really don't mind having to slow grind a 43K shortfall through weeklies and festivals. As long as those things stay available, then I'm ok with it. I won't ever gamble lootbox chances to get virtue ranks though.
    You are missing the "bribe" you got to get acceptance of the new system. Already completed ranks got a big boost in the transfer. The boost had diminishing returns the higher rank you were, hence why true completionist were pissed off in beta. They get to maybe rank 5 up to max now. Just happen to be in the sweet spot and you can get the majority to max by knocking out the deeds the completionist doesn't have available any more. It's all on the beta forums...

    Not surprisingly there are no new players to fight a cause they have no knowledge of. They don't know they are going to start playing yet. They have no clue what the end-game grind will do to their sanity either. And certainly not a flipping idea that they will never gain the virtue ranks of the corrupt veterans who let this in without a fuss.

    You should know that you are being Flung a ####.
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  21. #121
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    People who did the prior work got rewarded for it more than adequately. Any virtue that I had ranked above 20 was over 50 after the change. My slotted virtues also gave me higher bonuses than before, and the more above 20 it was, the closer to 60 it became.

    What happens to vxp once you got all virtues to 60? Likely same thing that happens to regular xp once you hit 120. Same thing that happens to craft xp once you hit mastery of that tier.

    Very simple math: old system, getting 20 virtues to 25 more or less meant 500 virtue awarding deeds completed. Assuming average 2k vxp per deed now, that's 1 mil vxp.

    From my experience, a virtue at 25 converted to rank 55. New vxp cost to rank 55 is 76400, so a bit over 1.5 mil vxp for all 20. Old timer lvl 120 completionists got quite a bonus for their effort in terms of vxp.

    In terms of stats? Not so much compared to new folks. 1mil vxp means 11 maxed virtues, and one to 40ish. For passives it is only 2.7k morale less than someone with 55 in 20 virtues, and only 4.5k morale behind somene with all around 60s.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    What happens to vxp once you got all virtues to 60? Likely same thing that happens to regular xp once you hit 120. Same thing that happens to craft xp once you hit mastery of that tier.
    Aside from those being two different things in a practical sense (regular, legendary, crafting xp are basically unlimited by source or time, where virtue xp is both), the bigger question for me is what happens to VXP when all your virtues are rank capped below 60 by your character level. Does it rank something up past the level-imposed cap like before, or is that VXP lost like we are guessing happens with all ranks at 60?

  23. #123
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    I am not much of a completionist, and still most of my virtues were around 54. My understanding is real completionists (all deeded out) got theirs in 59-60 range. For them, new Vale deeds ought to be enough to max the 5 slotted virtues, and a few others besides.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    Aside from those being two different things in a practical sense (regular, legendary, crafting xp are basically unlimited by source or time, where virtue xp is both), the bigger question for me is what happens to VXP when all your virtues are rank capped below 60 by your character level. Does it rank something up past the level-imposed cap like before, or is that VXP lost like we are guessing happens with all ranks at 60?
    It remains to be seen if amount of deeds available from content up to certain level is enough to max out all virtues up to that level cap. I.e. If all of Eregion is enough to get them all to 25, or Eregion/Moria/Lorien/Mirkwood is enough to get all to 30. It seems to be already established that current available amount from ALL deeds is not enough to get a 120 to all 60s.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    Aside from those being two different things in a practical sense (regular, legendary, crafting xp are basically unlimited by source or time, where virtue xp is both), the bigger question for me is what happens to VXP when all your virtues are rank capped below 60 by your character level. Does it rank something up past the level-imposed cap like before, or is that VXP lost like we are guessing happens with all ranks at 60?
    As I said, I have had VXP earning disabled warnings at least twice on my completionist L75 (now L76) mini. I am guessing that means I am losing VXP, including the 2K from finishing Moria, but that I got the 2000 from Lothlorien, because completing the deed levelled me up to L76.

 

 
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