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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    367
    Quote Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda View Post
    End game repeatable quests and Festivals will also grant virtue XP.
    Can you correct the slight differences in the maths some of us have been doing, you have the actual data.

    Just How much VXP, have you personally done the maths? Has anyone at SSG done any of the maths on this?

    New toons don't get endgame repeatables. They arrive at endgame as virtual leapers because of the huge ember, essence, ILI, trait point, and now virtue grind they are forced to do.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
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    34
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    I got plenty of benefit from doing the other deeds. It's content, and I played it and completed it. It's called satisfaction, and it is the reward for doing all the grind. .....
    I have to agree.

    Not a week into Vales of Anduin, I'm back to running old content to complete deeds when the weeklies are done in two days.

    The problem with this game is the dramatic decrease of content at endgame for progression.

    Instead, they ought increase content available for endgame progression, create a new tier of deed for Vets, a "mentor" tier for running content with newer players to encourage more activity all around.

    Running the same limited content over and over and over is extremely dull, the new deed system is refreshing, buys Devs time as well.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda View Post
    End game repeatable quests and Festivals will also grant virtue XP.
    Snobs (OP) said:...
    Íf you would get the 6000 VXP EVERY WEEK by doing the endgame dailies, it would still take you 86 WEEKS to get all Virtues to Level 60: 515500 / 6000 = ~86 Weeks !!!

    Additionally, if you would do the Featured Instances Challenge Mode EVERY SINGLE DAY for additional VXP (it rewards 150 VXP per day), you would get 7050 VXP per Week. 515500 / 7050 = ~73 Weeks !!!
    ....

    Someone else mentioned there are more deeds giving VXP, which would reduce those counts a little, but I haven't verified that. I guess we'll find out next week, but I suspect you are not giving out more VXP in the festivals than at endgame (on a per week basis, which is what we have to use to calculate because there are weeklies involved). If it's equal, and festivals are on half the time (as an approximation), then there's 50% more VXP available than in Snobs' calculation, which puts the new player target at 73 x 2/3 ~ 49 weeks. Plus the time to do every VXP deed granting deed in the game, a figure which we are for some reason ignoring.

    *Please not that I, at least, am not asking for more VXP from existing sources (as you gave us in changing deed VXP from 1000 to 2000), but more sources, namely all the other daily, or similarly time limited repeatable things we do in this game. I think if you do the math on those you'll find there's space for them in your system.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    911
    To go by a much less complicated math:
    Most established players who deeded fairly extensively, were at about rank 25 in each virtue. Lets discount deeds that awarded 2 virtue points, or just count those as 'double deeds'.
    20 virtues at 25 = 500 deeds completed.
    At average 2k vxp per deed in new system, thats 1mil vxp.

    A 25 translated to about 55 in new system, which apparently costs 77500 vxp to reach.

    So total value of 20 virtues at 55 is 1.55 mil vxp.
    Indeed, it looks like us old players got about half a mil of free vxp there.

    Otherwise, without that bonus, we would find all our virtues at around 40. (50k per virtue) Lets examine the impact of that. Old players on average would now need about 90 extra deeds to max out just their 5 selected virtues, a tall order for those who completed most of the available deeds already.

    What does new player get from completing the same 500 deeds (1M vxp)?

    1M / 87.5k = about 11.4
    That's 11 maxed virtues and one about halfway. Enough for mainstays and for swapouts. Passives difference from someone with all-around 60s? About 2500 morale and maybe 300 mits/mastery.
    Really, THIS IS IT. Most 120s are 150k morale with over 100k mits/200+k masteries. So those passives are drop in a barrel.

    Sure, the "fairest" option would be to just give us old-timers a vxp pool of # of completed deeds times 2k, and let us distribute. Instead, they gave us this bonus. In terms of raw vxp, it looks massive. In terms of actual player stat impact? It hardly registers.

  5. #30
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    Jul 2011
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    931
    Quote Originally Posted by Snobs View Post
    *without buying an Aria of Valar Boost

    So, I've just calculated a bit to see how much new characters would need to do to get their Virtues to Rank 60. Leveling ALL Virtues to Level 60 will give you an additional passive stat push, so some players do not want to do without those bonusses.

    Leveling a single Virtue from 1-60 requires a total of 87500 Virtue XP.

    Level 1-10: 1000 VXP per level
    after that it increases every 5 levels
    Level 10-15: 1100 VXP per level
    Level 15-20: 1200 VXP per level
    ....
    Level 55-60: 2000 VXP per level

    There is a total of 21 Virtues in the game:
    21 * 87500 = 1837500 VXP is the total requirement to level all Virtues to level 60.
    All your assumptions about VXP for ranks are incorrect. See https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Virtues for the correct values.

  6. #31
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    Mar 2016
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    911
    Quote Originally Posted by Giseldah View Post
    All your assumptions about VXP for ranks are incorrect. See https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Virtues for the correct values.
    Yeah, right. 87500 is SO incredibly different from 86000, heaven and earth. And to cap them all out one, needs the meager 903 2kvxp, deeds, and not the whopping 918.
    Like TOTALLY wrong.

  7. #32
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    Oct 2011
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    367
    Quote Originally Posted by Giseldah View Post
    All your assumptions about VXP for ranks are incorrect. See https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Virtues for the correct values.
    Overflow that had nowhere else to go in BR#3 went to the virtue with the lowest rank then alphabetically. So Wit not Charity as an example. I gather this has not changed in live.


    Would like to see details of the inflated ranks in the transfer of existing virtue ranks, the diminishing returns the closer you were to being complete along with the total VXP currently available in the game for new players.


    I like that the wiki is non judgemental though.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  8. #33
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    Oct 2011
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    367
    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    Yeah, right. 87500 is SO incredibly different from 86000, heaven and earth. And to cap them all out one, needs the meager 903 2kvxp, deeds, and not the whopping 918.
    Like TOTALLY wrong.
    Never mind there were less than 600 virtue sources in the game before the patch.

    If it's all based on BR data then it assumes nothing was changed in the costs to rank. Between the CM reading some document (unpublished) out on the live stream and going live, were changes made. Transfer rankings were changed upwards, what else?

    The indicator to me is that in game we are getting fractions of hundreds to rank up rather than the hundreds the wiki is showing, which was the case on beta. It could be being only thrown out but the last minute change to the rank transfers or something more. I'd say the former but without screwing up a live character's virtues we can't be sure. But that's what the preview server was to be for.

    SSG please enlighten us.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  9. #34
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    Jul 2011
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    931
    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    Yeah, right. 87500 is SO incredibly different from 86000, heaven and earth. And to cap them all out one, needs the meager 903 2kvxp, deeds, and not the whopping 918.
    Like TOTALLY wrong.
    I stated that the presented values are incorrect. You shouldn't read more into this. I'm not interested in the topic of this thread.

    What irritates me is that someone presents facts without checking. Because they don't correspond with last beta, I decided to do an examination, only to find them incorrect. I wasted my time.

  10. #35
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    Jul 2011
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    931
    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post
    Overflow that had nowhere else to go in BR#3 went to the virtue with the lowest rank then alphabetically. So Wit not Charity as an example. I gather this has not changed in live.Would like to see details of the inflated ranks in the transfer of existing virtue ranks, the diminishing returns the closer you were to being complete along with the total VXP currently available in the game for new players.I like that the wiki is non judgemental though.
    Feel free to change the text. It's a Wiki. It escaped my attention on BR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post
    Never mind there were less than 600 virtue sources in the game before the patch.If it's all based on BR data then it assumes nothing was changed in the costs to rank. Between the CM reading some document (unpublished) out on the live stream and going live, were changes made. Transfer rankings were changed upwards, what else? The indicator to me is that in game we are getting fractions of hundreds to rank up rather than the hundreds the wiki is showing, which was the case on beta. It could be being only thrown out but the last minute change to the rank transfers or something more. I'd say the former but without screwing up a live character's virtues we can't be sure. But that's what the preview server was to be for.SSG please enlighten us.
    With a new character on BR it was all in 100s. I've no indications that this has been changed. Conversion can give fracted results.

  11. #36
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    Oct 2011
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    367
    Quote Originally Posted by Giseldah View Post
    Feel free to change the text. It's a Wiki. It escaped my attention on BR.With a new character on BR it was all in 100s. I've no indications that this has been changed. Conversion can give fracted results.
    I applaud what you do for the community. I just feel the system is in enough of a state right now that there has to be some changes made. With Blue Names offering an opinion that festival and endgame will address the issues means they are still away off fully understanding it or by making comment are hoping their authority will be enough for other players to dismiss our investigations.

    I hope it just the former, the implication that it's a deliberate measure to hamper a new player so much is beyond believe.

    Until SSG are open about their intent and what changes were made after BR#3 it's only on live characters that we can gather data. I'd prefer not to have to do that.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  12. #37
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    Mar 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post
    With Blue Names offering an opinion that festival and endgame will address the issues means they are still away off fully understanding it or by making comment are hoping their authority will be enough for other players to dismiss our investigations.
    I never said that.

  13. #38
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    Dec 2012
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    Do we need to have them all maxed? The passive bonuses are not gamebreaking, not having that extra mastery on your mini cause youve leveled tanking virtues wont make you undesirable for end game content. Isnt the point of this to cut down on grind and make virtues relevant? Like you dont need to max more than 7 virtues essentially to get the best possible ones ready for whatever line you are specced.

    Its your choice to want them all maxed, but for the majority of the player base that never intends on doing that it is nice to be able to level the ones i want all the time and still get a little something via passive bonuses for the work i put into deeds in the past.

    Seriously someone tell me why you want then all at r60 other than to say you do and satisfy any OCD? New players are not significantly hindered behind old players purely on passive bonuses, level the ones you want.

    Also lets refrain from complaining about the dailies when we got super easy and super quick dailies to do for this, its rare dailies take less than 20minutes and you only have to do em twice a week to get full rewards
    Lvl 120 Guard - Olebenny || Lvl 120 Guard - Theoderad || Lvl 120 Guard - Estelrian || Lvl 120 Runekeeper - Leegun || Lvl 120 Mini - Nathorean || Lvl 120 Champion - Cephrial
    Leader of Raiders Beneath the Shadow - Arkenstone
    What more does one need in LotRO than a lot of morale and a shield?

  14. #39
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    Oct 2011
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    367
    Quote Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda View Post
    I never said that.
    Having a Blue Name in a thread will have many associate a certain weight behind what they are reading.

    By mentioning festivals and endgame dailies people could infer that was the official counter to the OP's contention.

    Cordovan did not sufficiently persuade me to take a different avenue.

    I have provided my feedback from my beta investigations and calculations. It reveals a great concern for future players and those on the Legendary Servers.

    This should enlist a willingness to address the issue not a shoot the messenger approach that has removed hugely knowledgeable players over the years because Blue Names along with others can troll their threads and drive them to indiscretions. Like I am doing now!
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  15. #40
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    Oct 2011
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    367
    Quote Originally Posted by Olebenny View Post
    Do we need to have them all maxed? The passive bonuses are not gamebreaking, not having that extra mastery on your mini cause youve leveled tanking virtues wont make you undesirable for end game content. Isnt the point of this to cut down on grind and make virtues relevant? Like you dont need to max more than 7 virtues essentially to get the best possible ones ready for whatever line you are specced.

    Its your choice to want them all maxed, but for the majority of the player base that never intends on doing that it is nice to be able to level the ones i want all the time and still get a little something via passive bonuses for the work i put into deeds in the past.

    Seriously someone tell me why you want then all at r60 other than to say you do and satisfy any OCD? New players are not significantly hindered behind old players purely on passive bonuses, level the ones you want.

    Also lets refrain from complaining about the dailies when we got super easy and super quick dailies to do for this, its rare dailies take less than 20minutes and you only have to do em twice a week to get full rewards
    This is only an issue for new players/toons yet to progress far with virtues. You have been paid handsomely with additional ranks. I could add that several virtues lost or gained appeal for specific classes in this revamp. The only way to proof against changes in the future would be to max all virtues. How about a new players diligently does every virtue deed up to Ironfold and has 8 virtues maxed ,7 at rank 41 and then finds one or two of the 6 they have at zero suddenly much more suitable to slot for their class and facing a rage quitting grind?
    Last edited by Ballie; Jun 14 2019 at 10:06 AM.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  16. #41
    It looks insufficient right now but that would be a valid assumption if no other content was introduced into the game. There will be new QPs and Expansions and these will have deeds in them.

    At the end of the day, you don't really need to max out all the virtues, the passive bonuses are really quite minor.

 

 
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