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  1. #1

    Full health on revive? Please?

    Could you please make it so when we revive at a location we would revive with full health? Or cause us to have no aggro for about 15 seconds so we could heal up/get away? It defeats the purpose if we are defeated as soon as we revive back in (and waiting til the mob goes away isn't an option if you die right next to it and it's guarding something like a quest objective) because our health is low.

  2. #2
    /signed

    Currently I have to run to a location where there are no mobs patrolling when I am going to get defeated. Not very heroic. And sometimes you can't.

  3. #3
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    Are you saying that you can get attacked while you're still inside the rez circle? I don't think it *used* to be like that; can anyone with a long memory confirm or deny?

    In the meantime, of course, healing potions ....
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    Are you saying that you can get attacked while you're still inside the rez circle? I don't think it *used* to be like that; can anyone with a long memory confirm or deny?

    In the meantime, of course, healing potions ....
    OP is talking about the revive-in-place option which VIP's get once every 2 hours I think or that you can get by spending MC. The rez cricle is a different thing, when you "release" or the rez timer runs out.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    Are you saying that you can get attacked while you're still inside the rez circle? I don't think it *used* to be like that; can anyone with a long memory confirm or deny?

    In the meantime, of course, healing potions ....
    I can confirm I was attacked and killed repeatedly in a rez circle near MT a few years ago. I was a bit underlevel at the time, and when at a lower level than the mobs, the aggro range is larger, I assume this is what kept pulling him in on me.

  6. #6
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    I think this is an unintentional byproduct of the way the game applies stats derived from gear.
    .

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharlaSedai View Post
    Could you please make it so when we revive at a location we would revive with full health? Or cause us to have no aggro for about 15 seconds so we could heal up/get away? It defeats the purpose if we are defeated as soon as we revive back in (and waiting til the mob goes away isn't an option if you die right next to it and it's guarding something like a quest objective) because our health is low.
    It was done this way to stop some cheating that was going on in the early game; if someone was losing a fight, they would log out - log straight back in again at full morale and power, and carry on.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    It was done this way to stop some cheating that was going on in the early game; if someone was losing a fight, they would log out - log straight back in again at full morale and power, and carry on.
    No, it should only be if you have been defeated and you choose the option (if VIP) to revive there. The other two MMOs I play (SWTOR and ESO) both have a mechanic in place to allow this. Both of those games put you into a non aggro stealth mode for about 15 seconds. You can use those seconds to get away from the boss and find a safe place to heal up. No sense in reviving if you are just going to aggro the boss again and die because you only have about 20% health when you revive.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharlaSedai View Post
    No, it should only be if you have been defeated and you choose the option (if VIP) to revive there. The other two MMOs I play (SWTOR and ESO) both have a mechanic in place to allow this. Both of those games put you into a non aggro stealth mode for about 15 seconds. You can use those seconds to get away from the boss and find a safe place to heal up. No sense in reviving if you are just going to aggro the boss again and die because you only have about 20% health when you revive.
    What I wrote is fact, not a suggestion; making out it is wrong because it is done differently in another game doesnt change that fact; I am getting increasingly irritated by people saying "X is wrong, because WOW/SWTOR/ESO do it differently".

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    What I wrote is fact, not a suggestion; making out it is wrong because it is done differently in another game doesnt change that fact; I am getting increasingly irritated by people saying "X is wrong, because WOW/SWTOR/ESO do it differently".
    That's not what he/she said. Revive means - you die first, so it's not connected to what you wrote about players logging out to avoid death. Can't avoid death once it's already happened. The two aren't connected. Yes, I think you're right about how reviving was changed to less health to penalise people for logging out - before they die (mostly a Moors thing I think). The OP is asking that they look into full health - after death, not after a relog. I guess SSG would have to find a way to distinguish between the two, in order to make that work. Revive at full health if there was a defeat, and revive at percentage health if there was a log out.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    That's not what he/she said. Revive means - you die first, so it's not connected to what you wrote about players logging out to avoid death. Can't avoid death once it's already happened. The two aren't connected. Yes, I think you're right about how reviving was changed to less health to penalise people for logging out - before they die (mostly a Moors thing I think). The OP is asking that they look into full health - after death, not after a relog. I guess SSG would have to find a way to distinguish between the two, in order to make that work. Revive at full health if there was a defeat, and revive at percentage health if there was a log out.
    No way to tell the difference between deliberately crashing out of the game (if running windowed, just click the "X"), and losing connection due to other issues like an ISP/pathway issue. It probably was the Moors behaviour that caused the change, however I doubt they can do much to change the mechanics between landscape, instances, and Moors; otherwise they would have done it differently in the first place.

    The reasoning was discussed by a Bluebage in a similar thread to this one about 18-24 months ago - it might be a bit further back than that, my memory of that period is full of holes due to medication side effects; I just remember that the reason was as I gave before.

    On landscape, there was also the issue of people doing it to preserve their undying badges.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    What I wrote is fact, not a suggestion; making out it is wrong because it is done differently in another game doesnt change that fact; I am getting increasingly irritated by people saying "X is wrong, because WOW/SWTOR/ESO do it differently".
    I was NOT disagreeing with you, just simply saying that they should implement it so the mechanic would ONLY work if you have actually DIED, not logged out. I was also simply illustrating a WAY that the mechanic could be implemented by using the other two MMOs I'm familiar with. Please do not jump to conclusions or bite my head off. Thanks.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharlaSedai View Post
    I was NOT disagreeing with you, just simply saying that they should implement it so the mechanic would ONLY work if you have actually DIED, not logged out. I was also simply illustrating a WAY that the mechanic could be implemented by using the other two MMOs I'm familiar with. Please do not jump to conclusions or bite my head off. Thanks.
    As I remember it, people were claiming they had been disconnected, and that is why they had died, was part of the problem.

    Also, especially on the Moors, coming back at full strength while your opponent would probably still be fighting off your buddies isnt very fair, and would probably completely break PVMP.

    Look, there HAVE to be consequences to dying; otherwise the game has nothing left by way of a challenge, the defeat cost of damaged equipment is so low, that it is inconsequential for most players above L10.
    I died 5-6 times trying to find a way around the Solo lockout in the WaterWorks 3 man instance a couple of days ago; when I gave up and ported back to my nearest milestone, the repair bill on my L75 character was -

    8 Silver.

    Now defeat in landscape is/was higher than that, so I suspect there have been some more alterations behind the scenes, but even going back 4 years, to when my Hunter would die repeatedly at the end stage of various instances - perhaps 10+ times before I managed to beat the final boss - the damage never got so high as 1 gold.

    The time taken to regain full morale/power is only about 20 seconds, even less if you use your morale healing skills.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    As I remember it, people were claiming they had been disconnected, and that is why they had died, was part of the problem.

    Also, especially on the Moors, coming back at full strength while your opponent would probably still be fighting off your buddies isnt very fair, and would probably completely break PVMP.

    Look, there HAVE to be consequences to dying; otherwise the game has nothing left by way of a challenge, the defeat cost of damaged equipment is so low, that it is inconsequential for most players above L10.
    I died 5-6 times trying to find a way around the Solo lockout in the WaterWorks 3 man instance a couple of days ago; when I gave up and ported back to my nearest milestone, the repair bill on my L75 character was -

    8 Silver.

    Now defeat in landscape is/was higher than that, so I suspect there have been some more alterations behind the scenes, but even going back 4 years, to when my Hunter would die repeatedly at the end stage of various instances - perhaps 10+ times before I managed to beat the final boss - the damage never got so high as 1 gold.

    The time taken to regain full morale/power is only about 20 seconds, even less if you use your morale healing skills.

    Not sure why this is such a big issue for you that you have to keep arguing with me over it.


    1. It should only be for people who died IN GAME, not because of a disconnect. Also, it would only affect VIPs because they are the only ones who have the option to revive at their death location, afaik.

    2. It should not be available on the Moors. Problem solved.

    3. Don't care about how much it costs to repair items. I just want to be able to fully utilize a mechanic already in game.

    4. If you revive right next to a mob who is guarding a quest item, you don't HAVE 20 seconds to heal up because they start attacking you right away, thus my point about either allowing us to revive at location with full health OR to allow us 15 seconds of non aggro where we could get to a safe location so we CAN heal.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharlaSedai View Post
    Not sure why this is such a big issue for you that you have to keep arguing with me over it.


    1. It should only be for people who died IN GAME, not because of a disconnect. Also, it would only affect VIPs because they are the only ones who have the option to revive at their death location, afaik.

    2. It should not be available on the Moors. Problem solved.

    3. Don't care about how much it costs to repair items. I just want to be able to fully utilize a mechanic already in game.

    4. If you revive right next to a mob who is guarding a quest item, you don't HAVE 20 seconds to heal up because they start attacking you right away, thus my point about either allowing us to revive at location with full health OR to allow us 15 seconds of non aggro where we could get to a safe location so we CAN heal.


    All characters can revive at their current location once, with that once reset an hour after the previous death.

    Moors is run on the exact same hardware/software the landscape servers are; what you are asking is for the Moors to be moved onto entirely isolated hardware and run a different software = Expensive to implement and more expense to maintain code and hardware.

    When you revive currently, you have about 5 seconds to move before a mob "notices" you; that is enough time to get out of aggro range in most situations, or enough time to use healing skills to boost morale to 80%.


    The game is the game, if you dont like it, there is always Spider Solitaire.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by SharlaSedai View Post


    1. It should only be for people who died IN GAME, not because of a disconnect. Also, it would only affect VIPs because they are the only ones who have the option to revive at their death location, afaik.

    2. It should not be available on the Moors. Problem solved.

    3. Don't care about how much it costs to repair items. I just want to be able to fully utilize a mechanic already in game.

    4. If you revive right next to a mob who is guarding a quest item, you don't HAVE 20 seconds to heal up because they start attacking you right away, thus my point about either allowing us to revive at location with full health OR to allow us 15 seconds of non aggro where we could get to a safe location so we CAN heal.
    1. Premium players have a free revive upon death as well but it is rewarded on a different time frame. Idk what it is. I would choose to retreat rather than spawn just to die again, if by some chance I put myself in the rare unexpected situation, I were to die in the first place.

    2. It isn't available in the Moors. What was mentioned previously is called Combat Logging. There are criteria set in place to curtail and enable it at the same time. Also a combat logger spawns again at 100% morale just as if they logged on as normal. The same rules apply to PvE as well.

    3. You are already fully utilizing a mechanic in the game, just not with good judgment. If you know you are going to die, then pick a spot where aggro isn't an issue. Many NPCs have predictable traveling paths and timing a respawn is sometimes possible with success.

    4.Don't revive in a spot where you know you are going to die, again. Choose to retreat instead. Come back to the same area and rethink your position in regards to your goal. Reviving at 100% health and or 15 seconds of non aggro would only enable players under level or undergeared to slow crawl through locations they probably shouldn't be at, by unhindered traveling for the 15 seconds. Then die and respawn to keep going in the direction they've already predetermined. Rinse and repeat across the map using free or MC revives. Also whats the chance as you describe, you are going to use the full 15 seconds as a retreatable respite for another attempt at your item objective? None, because you will choose to loot your quest objective first.


    Situational awareness is part of the challenge as part of any game where interactive NPCs in place. Sometimes odd things happen, yet every part of Middle Earth is easily navigated with some forethought and awareness by the solo player. Also since we are playing in a MMO, a player could ask for advice or help.



    Asking for a breather moment or 100% respawn is no big deal, but honestly, as easy as the landscape and its public dungeons are, is it really a necessity?
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    All characters can revive at their current location once, with that once reset an hour after the previous death.

    Moors is run on the exact same hardware/software the landscape servers are; what you are asking is for the Moors to be moved onto entirely isolated hardware and run a different software = Expensive to implement and more expense to maintain code and hardware.

    When you revive currently, you have about 5 seconds to move before a mob "notices" you; that is enough time to get out of aggro range in most situations, or enough time to use healing skills to boost morale to 80%.


    The game is the game, if you dont like it, there is always Spider Solitaire.
    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    1. Premium players have a free revive upon death as well but it is rewarded on a different time frame. Idk what it is. I would choose to retreat rather than spawn just to die again, if by some chance I put myself in the rare unexpected situation, I were to die in the first place.

    2. It isn't available in the Moors. What was mentioned previously is called Combat Logging. There are criteria set in place to curtail and enable it at the same time. Also a combat logger spawns again at 100% morale just as if they logged on as normal. The same rules apply to PvE as well.

    3. You are already fully utilizing a mechanic in the game, just not with good judgment. If you know you are going to die, then pick a spot where aggro isn't an issue. Many NPCs have predictable traveling paths and timing a respawn is sometimes possible with success.

    4.Don't revive in a spot where you know you are going to die, again. Choose to retreat instead. Come back to the same area and rethink your position in regards to your goal. Reviving at 100% health and or 15 seconds of non aggro would only enable players under level or undergeared to slow crawl through locations they probably shouldn't be at, by unhindered traveling for the 15 seconds. Then die and respawn to keep going in the direction they've already predetermined. Rinse and repeat across the map using free or MC revives. Also whats the chance as you describe, you are going to use the full 15 seconds as a retreatable respite for another attempt at your item objective? None, because you will choose to loot your quest objective first.


    Situational awareness is part of the challenge as part of any game where interactive NPCs in place. Sometimes odd things happen, yet every part of Middle Earth is easily navigated with some forethought and awareness by the solo player. Also since we are playing in a MMO, a player could ask for advice or help.



    Asking for a breather moment or 100% respawn is no big deal, but honestly, as easy as the landscape and its public dungeons are, is it really a necessity?

    Jeez, you guys are condescending. I'm really glad I don't live around you all.

    Yarbro: 1. There are already different regional mechanics in game. In Evendim, if the Rangers are winning in Annuminus, all players in Evendim get an XP boost. It isn't available for players outside of Evendim. So, making a mechanic NOT work in the Moors wouldn't be that big of a deal.
    2. Don't know what mobs you fight, but the hornets I was fighting the other day near the Beorninghus did NOT wait 5 seconds before attacking me again.
    3. "The game is the game; if you don't like it, play spider solitare." But you all are the first ones to say that just because the game is a certain way doesn't mean it has to stay that way. Just depends on whether or not YOU think the change is important. I'm not asking for a brand new, never heard of before thing.

    Sapience: Wow, you are so...full of your self. You must be a real joy to be around. 1. Sometimes you can't "pick a good place to die." Sometimes the area is quite thick with mobs and running away doesn't always help you. 2. In the other games I mentioned, you CAN'T loot the quest objective while in this non aggro state. You also can't loot the quest objective while being attacked, so yes, you have to defeat the guarding boss BEFORE you can proceed. It's not something I use all the time, but when the revive circle is quite a ways from where you are, you've had to fight your way into the area already, and you only need one more thing before your quest is achieved, it would be nice not to have to run all the way back, and fight all the way back into where you were, just to get ONE last thing.

    Congratulations to both of you that you are such professional players that you don't need this kind of thing. Since you don't, what skin is it off your nose if some of the rest of us do?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by SharlaSedai View Post
    Sapience: Wow, you are so...full of your self. You must be a real joy to be around. 1. Sometimes you can't "pick a good place to die." Sometimes the area is quite thick with mobs and running away doesn't always help you. 2. In the other games I mentioned, you CAN'T loot the quest objective while in this non aggro state. You also can't loot the quest objective while being attacked, so yes, you have to defeat the guarding boss BEFORE you can proceed. It's not something I use all the time, but when the revive circle is quite a ways from where you are, you've had to fight your way into the area already, and you only need one more thing before your quest is achieved, it would be nice not to have to run all the way back, and fight all the way back into where you were, just to get ONE last thing.

    Congratulations to both of you that you are such professional players that you don't need this kind of thing. Since you don't, what skin is it off your nose if some of the rest of us do?
    I cleared up some notions which were not true. Like the combat logging. I explained briefly how a player can work this out. And also reminded you we play a MMO and others can and do help out others all the time.

    I make suggestions several time a year. Some seem good at the time and some don't later upon reflection. I never once responded in return, like you have here, when someone offers me information and advice on how to remedy my problem.

    Have a good day.



    /not signed
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    1. Premium players have a free revive upon death as well but it is rewarded on a different time frame. Idk what it is. I would choose to retreat rather than spawn just to die again, if by some chance I put myself in the rare unexpected situation, I were to die in the first place.

    2. It isn't available in the Moors. What was mentioned previously is called Combat Logging. There are criteria set in place to curtail and enable it at the same time. Also a combat logger spawns again at 100% morale just as if they logged on as normal. The same rules apply to PvE as well.

    3. You are already fully utilizing a mechanic in the game, just not with good judgment. If you know you are going to die, then pick a spot where aggro isn't an issue. Many NPCs have predictable traveling paths and timing a respawn is sometimes possible with success.

    4.Don't revive in a spot where you know you are going to die, again. Choose to retreat instead. Come back to the same area and rethink your position in regards to your goal. Reviving at 100% health and or 15 seconds of non aggro would only enable players under level or undergeared to slow crawl through locations they probably shouldn't be at, by unhindered traveling for the 15 seconds. Then die and respawn to keep going in the direction they've already predetermined. Rinse and repeat across the map using free or MC revives. Also whats the chance as you describe, you are going to use the full 15 seconds as a retreatable respite for another attempt at your item objective? None, because you will choose to loot your quest objective first.


    Situational awareness is part of the challenge as part of any game where interactive NPCs in place. Sometimes odd things happen, yet every part of Middle Earth is easily navigated with some forethought and awareness by the solo player. Also since we are playing in a MMO, a player could ask for advice or help.



    Asking for a breather moment or 100% respawn is no big deal, but honestly, as easy as the landscape and its public dungeons are, is it really a necessity?
    I have to agree with Sapienze on this one. Landscape is not that hard, even for me. I don't see how this is needed.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    I have to agree with Sapienze on this one. Landscape is not that hard, even for me. I don't see how this is needed.
    It makes no sense for landscape, and it would make Raids so consequence free that most players that dont farm raids would probably stop bothering to do them.

    In the last 6-8 weeks I have seen multiple "suggestions" to dumb down gameplay to make it easier; as if the game hasnt been dumbed down enough.

    @SharlaSedai

    If you are losing a fight, you kite, you back pedal, you open the range; you dont stand in the middle of a (figurative) hornets nest until you die; you wouldnt do it in real life, if you do it in game expect consequences.

    If the Hornets attack at once, then report it as a bug, everything I have ever encountered gives you time to kite or heal.

  21. #21
    Just for the record, I'm quite sure the logging on with low health has nothing to do with the moors logging (logout timers were meant to handle that). A dev explained the low health logon several years ago as a workaround to allow characters to log onto the game faster by applying only their base stats at login, then adding stats from gear and virtues post login - which of course meant morale was low. Of course, the difference between base stats (which stopped changing at all beyond I think 50) and gear/virtues/tomes has grown massively over the years.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharlaSedai View Post
    Could you please make it so when we revive at a location we would revive with full health? Or cause us to have no aggro for about 15 seconds so we could heal up/get away? It defeats the purpose if we are defeated as soon as we revive back in (and waiting til the mob goes away isn't an option if you die right next to it and it's guarding something like a quest objective) because our health is low.
    I agree. I'd also like to see a sort of "revive blast", where when you revive every enemy mob within aggro range is immediately insta-killed. If you've already been killed by those mobs, they're just going to kill you again anyway so it sort of defeats the purpose of the revive. So if you're struggling with a landscape mob that's way too hard for anyone who doesn't know their class, at least you can use the revive blast to beat that impossible to kill mob yourself. Much easier for everyone.

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
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  23. #23
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    Yeah

    If it's on PvE ok.

    If it's in PvM no.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    I agree. I'd also like to see a sort of "revive blast", where when you revive every enemy mob within aggro range is immediately insta-killed. If you've already been killed by those mobs, they're just going to kill you again anyway so it sort of defeats the purpose of the revive. So if you're struggling with a landscape mob that's way too hard for anyone who doesn't know their class, at least you can use the revive blast to beat that impossible to kill mob yourself. Much easier for everyone.
    Can i have a flying pig armed with laser cannons while we are asking??

    Best you could hope for is that SSG tweak how long the mobs ignore you

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    I agree. I'd also like to see a sort of "revive blast", where when you revive every enemy mob within aggro range is immediately insta-killed. If you've already been killed by those mobs, they're just going to kill you again anyway so it sort of defeats the purpose of the revive. So if you're struggling with a landscape mob that's way too hard for anyone who doesn't know their class, at least you can use the revive blast to beat that impossible to kill mob yourself. Much easier for everyone.
    I'm just pondering the possibilities of this "blast". On landscape, with a partner, gather up all the mobs in an area, one of you dies then revives and the mobs are all dead. Whee.

    This would be even more fun in instances and in PVMP heh heh heh...

 

 

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