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  1. #26
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    Too much content is gated behind The Anvil, which isn't fun to do. We need to move away from gating game content behind raids.
    .

    I bring word from Lord Elrond of Rivendell. An Alliance once existed between Elves and Men. Long ago we fought and died together. We come to honor that allegiance.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post
    That's the rational and reasonable thing to do. But when the game looses all the rational and reasonable people, who's left?.
    You may have just been venting, but I left an MMO after 5 years that progressively focused on wasting time vs new content, making it increasingly harder for working people to find time to play at endgame level....gradually filtering them out, leaving a more trashy element in the wake.

    The end result, gen chat, profane, full of trolls, reflected the demographic that was left, players intentionally joined raids to undermine/troll other groups, my friend list grew smaller & smaller, as did the game. I finally left with them.

    Driving in rush hour traffic was more fun.

  3. #28
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post
    This whole thing harks back to an interview Sev did a while ago with their ideas of how to make crafting relevant. What escaped him then was the fact we had a relevant engaging crafting system in the old game that gave the crafter their gear, raiders had their gear and others were happy with their quest gear. It was trashed through a lack of any dev care or understanding of it. We just needed the issues to be fixed.

    Making quest gear largely useless and mixing up crafting and raids only ends up bringing people into conflict. It's par for the course to just not appreciate the strengths of the game that just need some tweaks but instead they wade in lacking incite and game experience with revamps to satisfy marketing. Virtues just needed some tweaks not a micro management nightmare. Stop breaking stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    Too much content is gated behind The Anvil, which isn't fun to do. We need to move away from gating game content behind raids.
    Agreed to both posts. The lack of options and simply having to repeat the same content week after week to get any rewards worth it is burning me out. All other content has been made useless as far as rewards goes.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandolf_TheOld View Post
    New, non-rime versions of these recipes should be put in game.
    I don't really care if new recipes won't require rimes, but remember that people already crafted some of these using rime-exchanged Artifacts, so if this component will be not required more - it will be unfair to some players.

    Adding 'Artifact of the Vales' as a reward for upcoming high-end dailies (which are already announced) is the best solution and i bet this will happen soon.
    Xolla;Tishina

  5. #30
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    At least that we can barter with embers will be a choice.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    An Artifact of the Vale should be the reward for each of the weeklies. Two a week hardly seems like over-supply.
    /signed -- fantastic idea

    We had another tread about this but the powers that be locked it, although the discussion was productive and reasonably friendly.
    .

    I bring word from Lord Elrond of Rivendell. An Alliance once existed between Elves and Men. Long ago we fought and died together. We come to honor that allegiance.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    Too much content is gated behind The Anvil, which isn't fun to do. We need to move away from gating game content behind raids.
    Please. Just stop posting - you are either delusional or simply just trying to cause agitation on the forum.

    Here is the basic Lotro Structure.

    Festival Content - Available to all - Low rewards, mostly comsetic fluff. Why? Because the quests require no skill level and little / no effort.
    In the past year however we've seen the birth of Seasonal Instances - Also Available to all, but not necessarily able to be completed by all - Pretty decent rewards given there is some element of challenge involved.

    Landscape Content - Available to all - Low rewards. Questing and Landscape should not ever be inaccessible to anyone, and it isn't, everyone is more than capable of completing the quests, even with minimal gear. Quest rewards are appropriate for the amount of effort and time put in.

    Instance Content - Available to all, but as above, not necessarily able to be completed by all - due to the challenge, and difficulty involved in completing these instances, which is WELL above Landscape difficulty, players are rewarded with much better gear and items than they would get from the Landscape. You are rewarded for the difficulty involved and your ability to complete that. Higher Difficulty = Better Loot.

    Raid Content - Also, available to all, I don't care what you're reasons are for not doing it, or not being able to do it, it is accessible to EVERYONE, and it is a personal choice if you choose not to, if you want to raid, you will find a way. No one starts out in a raiding kin, or starts out knowing a group of raiders, or starts out with the appropriate skill level / gear required to raid. All of which is acquired and learned over time and effort put into the game, if a person is not willing to put in this effort in order to complete the raid or even attempt to, why should they enjoy the same level of rewards as those who do? Whilst this content is available to all, it is not necessarily able to be completed by all - furthermore, this is why there are varying tiers of difficulty, and not just in raids, but in almost all instances, those who can and are able will do the harder content and be rewarded with better rewards for completing it. AS THEY SHOULD BE.
    Higher Difficulty = Better Loot.

    And if you don't like this fact, I'm sorry but you should stop playing MMO's, because this is the way that it is.

  8. #33
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    All play styles need access to end game rewards. Forcing all played to raid to have access to end game content is just a bad choice, and one with no justification. All accomplishment is a product of time + effort, and equivalent goals can be set for all play styles. Why should players be forced to participate in content they don;t enjoy to advance in the game? This is bad game design, and bad marketing.
    .

    I bring word from Lord Elrond of Rivendell. An Alliance once existed between Elves and Men. Long ago we fought and died together. We come to honor that allegiance.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    All play styles need access to end game rewards. Forcing all played to raid to have access to end game content is just a bad choice, and one with no justification. All accomplishment is a product of time + effort, and equivalent goals can be set for all play styles. Why should players be forced to participate in content they don;t enjoy to advance in the game? This is bad game design, and bad marketing.
    It is the norm though, and it's always been that way. This is a precedence this time though for sure. As soon as they add some recipes that don't involve the raid component for players to use, things will feel normal again. This is a new twist in the game, and it's not gone down favourably for a lot of players is all, but it will change I think. Just ride it out like I do. Go without the crafted items that need the component, and wait til later. Don't feed it, by buying into it, just leave it where it belongs.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  10. #35
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    My experience is the best way to prompt change is to rally like minded players together and be vocal.

    Regarding the way it has always been, it's time for this change. Play styles and expectations have changed, what draws and retains subscribers has changed. Things have always been one way, until they're not. The argument has no validity, change is the only constant. We, the player base need to drive change.
    .

    I bring word from Lord Elrond of Rivendell. An Alliance once existed between Elves and Men. Long ago we fought and died together. We come to honor that allegiance.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    My experience is the best way to prompt change is to rally like minded players together and be vocal.

    Regarding the way it has always been, it's time for this change. Play styles and expectations have changed, what draws and retains subscribers has changed. Things have always been one way, until they're not. The argument has no validity, change is the only constant. We, the player base need to drive change.
    Thing is though, you're not going to find many players that fully agree with you on this. Most of us are fine with raids containing something special. Raids should contain something unique and special, and they always will. The only difference with this latest twist is that because of the rime being needed for almost every recipe, people are in arms over it. Once that changes, the raid will still have it's something special. The most important thing is that you don't buy into that new system and dip into the store to make gold to buy the rimes. Once you do that, it sends a clear message to the game's number crunchers that - doing this, makes them money, and then it will never stop.

    When I read that Mirkwood was launching today, my initial thought was, it's too soon, with a new update on the main servers and a festival incoming. But as soon as the patch had finished, I navigated straight to Anor, where this kind of stuff doesn't exist. It's like night and day difference. I'd rather pay a monthly sub for quality play that doesn't do this sort of thing to players, than all the free servers in china. The vales, and all it's honey and rimes, is in my dust. Dead ducks. It's not an update that I will ever buy, not as it is anyway.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Funk View Post
    Agreed to both posts. The lack of options and simply having to repeat the same content week after week to get any rewards worth it is burning me out. All other content has been made useless as far as rewards goes.
    I've been here since closed Beta, but have taken many breaks due to frustration with game design choices. This game used to have the best craft systems, thoroughly enjoyable ... killed by game design prompted by elitists. This game used to have an amazing roleplay community ... killed by the elitists in the community. The game community is in a spiral, it's being killed by the belief that instanced content makes an MMO, I though The Vales provided some hope there, but the raid gated vale relics and crafting recipes ruined that hope. Game design has constantly catered to the vocal minority of elitist players, which has driven away a huge portion of the player base. If someone doesn't pull their head out of their rear soon this game will be gone. Pleasing 1% of the players means 99% of the players are ignored.
    .

    I bring word from Lord Elrond of Rivendell. An Alliance once existed between Elves and Men. Long ago we fought and died together. We come to honor that allegiance.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    I've been here since closed Beta, but have taken many breaks due to frustration with game design choices. This game used to have the best craft systems, thoroughly enjoyable ... killed by game design prompted by elitists. This game used to have an amazing roleplay community ... killed by the elitists in the community. The game community is in a spiral, it's being killed by the belief that instanced content makes an MMO, I though The Vales provided some hope there, but the raid gated vale relics and crafting recipes ruined that hope. Game design has constantly catered to the vocal minority of elitist players, which has driven away a huge portion of the player base. If someone doesn't pull their head out of their rear soon this game will be gone. Pleasing 1% of the players means 99% of the players are ignored.
    yeah, crafting has been killed recently .. that is why craftable first age weapons always needed a raid drop .. that is for 10(?) years like this. so stop crying and accept that the best craftable items always needed raid stuff ...

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    All accomplishment is a product of time + effort, and equivalent goals can be set for all play styles.
    I think you underestimate how much time and effort being a raider takes. Lets compare raiding to crafting.

    In crafting you can be maxed in a profession in a few hours. Click a button to process a stack and in the mean time, go grab a cup of coffee and alt-tab to Facebook. Once in the raid, you can spend hours on a boss, wipe after wipe, and have nothing to show for it except a rather high repair bill and some empty stacks of consumables. In the same amount of time the raider spend wiping on boss 1, the crafter got max ironfold rep.

    In crafting you can never fail. Sure you wont crit every time, but you will always get something every time you craft. In raiding you can and will fail, somethimes the only reward being you go the boss down 10% more then you did the other day.

    Crafting does not take the same effort as being a raider

    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    Why should players be forced to participate in content they don;t enjoy to advance in the game?
    They arnt required to do content they dont enjoy, you dont need to step foot in the anvil to advance in the game.

    There are 0 landscape quests gated behind raid completion and no landscape quests even remotely require the gear found in the raid.

    For PvPers, doing the raid is not required to access the moors. You either need to be vip or buy time.

    For crafters, you can max out every crafting proficiency and get max guild standing without setting foot past Bree, let alone doing the anvil. Sure some recipes require a drop found in the anvil, but they are a small minority of what you can craft at cap level. My jeweler has 1 recipe that requires a vales artifact compared to 53 (if i counted correctly) that do not. That means <2% of my 120 recipes require something out of the anvil. Now I realize that some professions, like metal-smith, have more recipes that require rimes/vales artifacts then jeweler does. I am still willing to bet that each profession has more recipes that do not require rimes/vales artifacts, then those that do.

    Doing the anvil is not a requirement to RP.

    Doing the anvil is not a requirement to play music or enjoy a bands performance.

    Doing the anvil is not a requirement to do the yule fest/summer fest/anniversary fest/spring fest/harvest fest/farmers fair/ treasure hunt/chicken hockey/pirate thingy

  15. #40
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    Artifacts of the Vale are currently gated behind grinding T2/T3 of the Anvil raid, because someone, somewhere, decided that the best way to ensure that the playerbase was served was by giving everything to the raiders.

    They not only get the raid-only gear, which is the traditional ring in which the circuses of 2006 love to live, but now they also get all the craftables worth mentioning as well.

    Next up, you'll have to farm Anvil in order to get tokens to unlock questing? At this point, I wouldn't be surprised.
    Many things get all my nope.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorondir View Post
    yeah, crafting has been killed recently .. that is why craftable first age weapons always needed a raid drop .. that is for 10(?) years like this. so stop crying and accept that the best craftable items always needed raid stuff ...
    I'm not "crying", stop being a rude. Just because bad design decisions have been made, doesn't mean we have to keep going down those bad paths.
    Last edited by eanamdar; Jun 12 2019 at 02:08 PM.
    .

    I bring word from Lord Elrond of Rivendell. An Alliance once existed between Elves and Men. Long ago we fought and died together. We come to honor that allegiance.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    I'm not "crying", stop being a rude troll. Just because bad design decisions have been made, doesn't mean we have to keep going down those bad paths.

    The people that benefit from those bad decisions will fight tooth and nail to defend and protect them though, and if you'd like to win a bet, bet that the people fighting the hardest to protect this cross-eyed broketastic state of affairs are the ones cashing in on it.
    Many things get all my nope.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeatkisson View Post
    The people that benefit from those bad decisions will fight tooth and nail to defend and protect them though, and if you'd like to win a bet, bet that the people fighting the hardest to protect this cross-eyed broketastic state of affairs are the ones cashing in on it.
    We agree on this, you've stated the core of the issue. As a community we have an obligation to work to correct these issues.
    .

    I bring word from Lord Elrond of Rivendell. An Alliance once existed between Elves and Men. Long ago we fought and died together. We come to honor that allegiance.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    We agree on this, you've stated the core of the issue. As a community we have an obligation to work to correct these issues.
    Not sure how we'd do that. The system needs to be modified. It's something the devs will have to address, if they see fit to.
    Many things get all my nope.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeatkisson View Post
    Not sure how we'd do that. The system needs to be modified. It's something the devs will have to address, if they see fit to.
    That's simple, by constantly demanding the issue be addressed until it is
    .

    I bring word from Lord Elrond of Rivendell. An Alliance once existed between Elves and Men. Long ago we fought and died together. We come to honor that allegiance.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    All play styles need access to end game rewards. Forcing all played to raid to have access to end game content is just a bad choice, and one with no justification. All accomplishment is a product of time + effort, and equivalent goals can be set for all play styles. Why should players be forced to participate in content they don;t enjoy to advance in the game? This is bad game design, and bad marketing.
    No one is forcing you to do anything. If you want crafted relics so badly, you will do what is required to obtain them; pay gold, or do the raid on T2/T3. This is entirely up to you. Crafted relics are by no means necessary to play the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    I've been here since closed Beta, but have taken many breaks due to frustration with game design choices. This game used to have the best craft systems, thoroughly enjoyable ... killed by game design prompted by elitists. This game used to have an amazing roleplay community ... killed by the elitists in the community. The game community is in a spiral, it's being killed by the belief that instanced content makes an MMO, I though The Vales provided some hope there, but the raid gated vale relics and crafting recipes ruined that hope. Game design has constantly catered to the vocal minority of elitist players, which has driven away a huge portion of the player base. If someone doesn't pull their head out of their rear soon this game will be gone. Pleasing 1% of the players means 99% of the players are ignored.
    This statement is just in stark contrast with everything displayed by high-end raiders. As a matter of fact, virtually all of the high-end raiders from ages past have left the game. Why? Because the game doesn't cater to them at all. What world do you live in that you believe this to be true? Big battles drove them away. Sporadic content release drove them away. Farming flowers for top end gear drove them away. Poor class balance drove them away. Making these types of statements really does verge on delusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    I'm not "crying", stop being a rude. Just because bad design decisions have been made, doesn't mean we have to keep going down those bad paths.
    He's not being rude, he just debunked your whole argument with one simple example.

    Quote Originally Posted by jakeatkisson View Post
    Artifacts of the Vale are currently gated behind grinding T2/T3 of the Anvil raid, because someone, somewhere, decided that the best way to ensure that the playerbase was served was by giving everything to the raiders.
    Because the highest tier of crafted relics and off-hands weapons = everything? Don't be ridiculous.

    Next up, you'll have to farm Anvil in order to get tokens to unlock questing? At this point, I wouldn't be surprised.
    For some reason, I truly believe that you wouldn't be surprised. I think you really have convinced yourself of your own personal truth.
    Feailuve, Akabath, Failure - Evernight
    Also known as Giliodor

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeviternus View Post
    No one is forcing you to do anything. If you want crafted relics so badly, you will do what is required to obtain them; pay gold, or do the raid on T2/T3. This is entirely up to you. Crafted relics are by no means necessary to play the game.

    We're being forced to raid to obtain these items, other options need added.


    This statement is just in stark contrast with everything displayed by high-end raiders. As a matter of fact, virtually all of the high-end raiders from ages past have left the game. Why? Because the game doesn't cater to them at all. What world do you live in that you believe this to be true? Big battles drove them away. Sporadic content release drove them away. Farming flowers for top end gear drove them away. Poor class balance drove them away. Making these types of statements really does verge on delusion.

    I disagree with your opinion. Delusional, from the guy that only see's things from the point of view that most benefits him? You only care about maintaining a broke system.


    He's not being rude, he just debunked your whole argument with one simple example.

    Yes, saying that someone is "crying" is rude beyond measure, and absolutely out of line. This type of inflammatory speech is why people can no longer have civil discourse.

    There is a very real issue, this latest game design fiasco is just the straw that broke the camel's back.
    .

    I bring word from Lord Elrond of Rivendell. An Alliance once existed between Elves and Men. Long ago we fought and died together. We come to honor that allegiance.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    We're being forced to raid to obtain these items, other options need added.
    No, you're not being forced. Stop lying. You have no need for these relics, and you're not forced to get them. You want to get them, but can't. That's something entirely different.

    I disagree with your opinion. Delusional, from the guy that only see's things from the point of view that most benefits him? You only care about maintaining a broke system.
    It's straight up false to claim that this game caters to the elitist minority. Most people from that community have left for that very reason; because the game caters to casual players. Deny it as much as you want, disagree with it as much as you want. I know the people who used to do high-end raiding in, for example, Erebor and Throne. All of them quit by now, or still play but think the game is in a terrible state.

    Yes, saying that someone is "crying" is rude beyond measure, and absolutely out of line. This type of inflammatory speech is why people can no longer have civil discourse.
    Rude beyond measure? No it's not. It's pointing out that you're nonsensically complaining about something for no apparent reason; this has happened before with First Age symbols, and it isn't a problem. You're trying to make a problem out of nothing.
    Feailuve, Akabath, Failure - Evernight
    Also known as Giliodor

  24. #49
    Dwarf-iron fragment was gated behind the ered mithrin multi-player instances to begin with and there was an outcry. You can get dwarf-iron fragments for 100 long beards now. So, I’ll just wait and see what happens from SSG and give them a few weeks to sort it out.

    IMHO, I can see and sympathize with some of the arguments from many points of view. Consumables I have a hard time justifying needing artifacts. BiS weapons and shields seem fine to me gated behind artifacts.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by JERH View Post
    Dwarf-iron fragment was gated behind the ered mithrin multi-player instances to begin with and there was an outcry. You can get dwarf-iron fragments for 100 long beards now. So, I’ll just wait and see what happens from SSG and give them a few weeks to sort it out.

    IMHO, I can see and sympathize with some of the arguments from many points of view. Consumables I have a hard time justifying needing artifacts. BiS weapons and shields seem fine to me gated behind artifacts.
    I agree. I just don't sympathise with the sense of entitlement that some of the players in these threads espouse.
    Feailuve, Akabath, Failure - Evernight
    Also known as Giliodor

 

 
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