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  1. #1

    Remapping Command > Option key?

    I don't know if anyone else is frustrated by the change from the Option key to the Command key for the equivalent Windows Alt key, but I am really struggling with this. I nearly got a party wiped by hitting Option a few times (muscle memory *sigh*) instead of Command, causing skills to fire that I didn't at all intend. Why Wine chose to use Command instead of the pretty standard Option key as the Alt equivalent is beyond my grasp.

    I discovered that there's a setting on the Mac (System Preferences > Keyboard > Modifier Keys) that allows you to globally remap Option as Command (and vice versa). I'm wondering if there's a way to implement this change ONLY when LOTRO is running? Like maybe an Apple Script for something similar that would apply / run only when LOTRO is the active window? I'm not a programmer of any sort, I wouldn't have a clue where to begin to create such a thing. I just wonder if any of you Mac users would know how, or could point me in a direction.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenara View Post
    I don't know if anyone else is frustrated by the change from the Option key to the Command key for the equivalent Windows Alt key, but I am really struggling with this. I nearly got a party wiped by hitting Option a few times (muscle memory *sigh*) instead of Command, causing skills to fire that I didn't at all intend. Why Wine chose to use Command instead of the pretty standard Option key as the Alt equivalent is beyond my grasp.

    I discovered that there's a setting on the Mac (System Preferences > Keyboard > Modifier Keys) that allows you to globally remap Option as Command (and vice versa). I'm wondering if there's a way to implement this change ONLY when LOTRO is running? Like maybe an Apple Script for something similar that would apply / run only when LOTRO is the active window? I'm not a programmer of any sort, I wouldn't have a clue where to begin to create such a thing. I just wonder if any of you Mac users would know how, or could point me in a direction.
    I recall an application call karabiner (https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/) that might do what you are looking for. Is a key remapper, but I'm not sure it can do that on an app by app basis…

    good luck!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by amosconi View Post
    I recall an application call karabiner (https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/) that might do what you are looking for. Is a key remapper, but I'm not sure it can do that on an app by app basis…

    good luck!
    Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out once I know my install is stable.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenara View Post
    Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out once I know my install is stable.
    Let me know if does what I remember, so I can add it to my installation post for whomever has the same issues…

  5. #5
    Absolutely. I had all my gambit masteries mapped up the 1-2-3 quickslots and I trained myself to quickly build gambits with my left hand on the numbers and my right hand down by command-alt-shift. Now the alt key is totally dead and the control key is buried under my left hand, it's pretty impractical to use during a fight. I'm still using my in-the-box bluetooth keyboard, I have an old usb board stashed away somewhere in the closet- I suppose it's time to go digging.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdkuab View Post
    Absolutely. I had all my gambit masteries mapped up the 1-2-3 quickslots and I trained myself to quickly build gambits with my left hand on the numbers and my right hand down by command-alt-shift. Now the alt key is totally dead and the control key is buried under my left hand, it's pretty impractical to use during a fight. I'm still using my in-the-box bluetooth keyboard, I have an old usb board stashed away somewhere in the closet- I suppose it's time to go digging.
    I'm working on a solution that should word (it actually does work for Wine, but not Lotro currently) to remap the option Key to the Alt key. I will make a new post as soon as I manage to find more.

  7. #7
    The real problem is the lack of implementation of the 'Option' key at all in the new client.

    Perhaps I'm mistaken but as I recall, the portings of modifier keys in the 'old' Mac client were these:

    Alt --> Command
    Windows --> Option
    Shift --> Shift
    Control --> Control

    Where the old Mac client ported the PC's 'Windows' key to the Mac's 'Option' key, the new client does not. (I have checked screenshots of my toolbars, which I keep for maintaining keymapping consistency between characters of the same class, and I believe the above to be the case. If the 'Option' key was properly ported, however, it wouldn't matter which key was ported to which; you could just change the appropriate keys in 'Options > Keymappings'.)

    This lack of 'Windows' key porting leaves Mac users (many of whom, like myself, have been relying on this key for many years) without one of the four modifier keys, reducing the player's keyboard-command functionality significantly (in terms of 'keyboard-to-toolbar' functionality, it is reduced by 25%).

    Since the key-porting for 'Option' is absent, any toolbar (and related commands) that the player has already mapped to that key do not respond and cannot be displayed or used except by using 'always show toolbar' and mouse-clicking. For many players, mousing interrupts smooth gameplay. Keymapping was, of course, implemented to address this problem. This omission leaves Mac players at a significant disadvantage, unable to activate these commands by keystroke.

    Programmatically, this would seem like an easy fix.

    I reported this as a bug (which, in my view, it is; it is a "bug by omission") , asking the devs to PLEASE fix this as soon as possible, as my gameplay, like that of many others, is hampered by its lack.

    I urge you to do the same.
    Last edited by TengwarWriter; Jun 11 2019 at 11:26 AM.
    Valdaquende, lvl 76 Loremaster (Laurelin)
    Pharazir, lvl 55 Burglar (Laurelin)
    http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf/ <-(Middle Earth languages)
    www.elvish.org <-(Elvish writing & languages)

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by TengwarWriter View Post
    The real problem is the lack of implementation of the 'Option' key at all in the new client.

    Perhaps I'm mistaken but as I recall, the portings of modifier keys in the 'old' Mac client were these:

    Alt --> Command
    Windows --> Option
    Shift --> Shift
    Control --> Control

    Where the old Mac client ported the PC's 'Windows' key to the Mac's 'Option' key, the new client does not. (I have checked screenshots of my toolbars, which I keep for maintaining keymapping consistency between characters of the same class, and I believe the above to be the case. If the 'Option' key was properly ported, however, it wouldn't matter which key was ported to which; you could just change the appropriate keys in 'Options > Keymappings'.)

    This lack of 'Windows' key porting leaves Mac users (many of whom, like myself, have been relying on this key for many years) without one of the four modifier keys, reducing the player's keyboard-command functionality significantly (in terms of 'keyboard-to-toolbar' functionality, it is reduced by 25%).

    Since the key-porting for 'Option' is absent, any toolbar (and related commands) that the player has already mapped to that key do not respond and cannot be displayed or used except by using 'always show toolbar' and mouse-clicking. For many players, mousing interrupts smooth gameplay. Keymapping was, of course, implemented to address this problem. This omission leaves Mac players at a significant disadvantage, unable to activate these commands by keystroke.

    Programmatically, this would seem like an easy fix.

    I reported this as a bug (which, in my view, it is; it is a "bug by omission") , asking the devs to PLEASE fix this as soon as possible, as my gameplay, like that of many others, is hampered by its lack.

    I urge you to do the same.
    Hi TengwarWriter.

    If I recall correctly Alt has always been mapped to Option in recent versions of LotRO (before v24).

    The problem with the current client is based on a limitation in Wine: the alt key is not mapped to option, to preserve the ability to enter character via their code, something quite weird if you ask me…

    However it get deeper than this.

    The version of wine LoTRO uses is 4.5, and this version has an option that allow to modify this behaviour via RegEdit. And it works… outside LoTRO…# [I'm still looking to see if we can use this to solve the problem though…]

    What I think happened here is that the lotro code (or Wine's) has been modified to prevent the use of the Option key altogether outside a field for text entry. If you are outside a text field, the option key simply does not register, is like not pressing it at all. and even in a text field, if you press Option+[number] nothing at all appears (except, for some reasons, with OPT+3), but still the GUI does not accept the symbol.

    All of this long writing to say, that you are right and a bug need to be raised, as is indeed an "unwanted behaviour", or at least "unconsidered behaviour"…

  9. #9
    That's odd; I'm in the game now and when I hit 'Command', the toolbar that appears clearly labels the commands:

    'Alt+1', 'Alt+2', 'Alt+3', etc., through 'Alt+="

    and the commands activate properly upon the correct ('Command+_') keystroke.


    Amosconi, I think it is awesome that you are working on a fix or workaround. But I think (without rancour, SSG, so don't get excited) that this problem should clearly be in Standing Stone's court; if they are going to move from one architecture to another, they have an obligation to ensure that players do not lose functionality due to that transition. Anything else is like saying "Hi, we're your car manufacturer; now that we've changed our delivery chain, your rear windows won't work."

    I found the following articles that may be of help. This MacOS FAQ on the WINE support wiki: https://wiki.winehq.org/MacOS_FAQ
    (which you almost certainly already found) states that:

    "Since Wine 1.7.4 its possible to map Option as Alt by adding the following using regedit:
    [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Win e\Mac Driver]
    "LeftOptionIsAlt"="Y"
    "RightOptionIsAlt"="Y"

    AND

    "Since Wine 3.17 it's possible to map Command as Ctrl meaning CMD+C/CMD+V now functions like Native applications
    [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Win e\Mac Driver]
    "LeftCommandIsCtrl"="Y"
    "RightCommandIsCtrl"="Y"

    However, I could find no clear information on accessing or modding the 'Windows' key to map it to a Mac key.

    I DID, however, find a posting by someone who mod'ed X11 to change PC -> Mac key porting for use by WINE applications and it looks rather promising as the possible basis for a fix. The post'er used it to remap the X11's keyboard layout to mimic the windows keyboard layout on a Mac keyboard.

    Here's a link to that thread: https://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=7545

    It should be noted that, since the technique involves changing X11 itself, it would change the behaviour of EVERY app in the system the used X11. But this is hardly an issue, at this point, since Apple hasn't included X11 in the MacOS for a long time and few people used it. It is, however, still compatible and freely downloadable, as far as I know, so it might form the basis of a workaround.

    But I still feel that this is SSG's baby; after all, even if such a workaround proved effective, it would require Mac users to download X11, install it, configure it and modify it ... all to fix a problem that the developer should have in hand. A fix by SSG would take care of every Mac player, not just those with the motivation and expertise to perform the modification.
    Last edited by TengwarWriter; Jun 11 2019 at 04:37 PM.
    Valdaquende, lvl 76 Loremaster (Laurelin)
    Pharazir, lvl 55 Burglar (Laurelin)
    http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf/ <-(Middle Earth languages)
    www.elvish.org <-(Elvish writing & languages)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by TengwarWriter View Post
    That's odd; I'm in the game now and when I hit 'Command', the toolbar that appears clearly labels the commands:

    'Alt+1', 'Alt+2', 'Alt+3', etc., through 'Alt+="

    and the commands activate properly upon the correct ('Command+_') keystroke.
    Yes in the current version of the client, that is correct, but until the last version, when we had an actual Mac client, the option key was used to activate any button from Alt+1 to Alt+=


    Quote Originally Posted by TengwarWriter View Post
    Amosconi, I think it is awesome that you are working on a fix or workaround. But I think (without rancour, SSG, so don't get excited) that this problem should clearly be in Standing Stone's court; if they are going to move from one architecture to another, they have an obligation to ensure that players do not lose functionality due to that transition. Anything else is like saying "Hi, we're your car manufacturer; now that we've changed our delivery chain, your rear windows won't work."
    Unfortunately, the more I look into it and the more I fear you are totally right. I'm no developer, and it starting to look like that this is a change that has implemented either in the LoTRO client or in Wine's.

    Quote Originally Posted by TengwarWriter View Post
    I found the following articles that may be of help. This MacOS FAQ on the WINE support wiki: https://wiki.winehq.org/MacOS_FAQ
    (which you almost certainly already found) states that:

    "Since Wine 1.7.4 its possible to map Option as Alt by adding the following using regedit:
    [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Win e\Mac Driver]
    "LeftOptionIsAlt"="Y"
    "RightOptionIsAlt"="Y"

    AND

    "Since Wine 3.17 it's possible to map Command as Ctrl meaning CMD+C/CMD+V now functions like Native applications
    [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Win e\Mac Driver]
    "LeftCommandIsCtrl"="Y"
    "RightCommandIsCtrl"="Y"

    However, I could find no clear information on accessing or modding the 'Windows' key to map it to a Mac key.
    Yes I did find them, but thanks. The process is not the simplest, as you need to use the Registry Editor. There is a cursory explanation here: https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35351#c6

    You need to create two specific keys in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Win e\Mac Driver\ called LeftOptionIsAlt and RightOptionIsAlt both with a value of "Y"

    The regedit can be found in the /Application Support/com.standingstonegames.lotro/common/usr/bin folder, inside the user library. If you double click on it, an instance of Wine will open, and you can use the application, as if you where using a windows computer. Be careful if you want to play with it, as the regedit app has the capability of wrecking havoc on a windows machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by TengwarWriter View Post
    I DID, however, find a posting by someone who mod'ed X11 to change PC -> Mac key porting for use by WINE applications and it looks rather promising as the possible basis for a fix. The post'er used it to remap the X11's keyboard layout to mimic the windows keyboard layout on a Mac keyboard.

    Here's a link to that thread: https://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=7545

    It should be noted that, since the technique involves changing X11 itself, it would change the behaviour of EVERY app in the system the used X11. But this is hardly an issue, at this point, since Apple hasn't included X11 in the MacOS for a long time and few people used it. It is, however, still compatible and freely downloadable, as far as I know, so it might form the basis of a workaround.

    But I still feel that this is SSG's baby; after all, even if such a workaround proved effective, it would require Mac users to download X11, install it, configure it and modify it ... all to fix a problem that the developer should have in hand. A fix by SSG would take care of every Mac player, not just those with the motivation and expertise to perform the modification.
    I found that as well, but first is already way more complicated than using the registry editor and hen X11 is no longer installed on macOS, so you would need to install another third party app, to try fix a problem with other 2 third party apps…

  11. #11
    One possibility has occurred to me: The LOTRO Mac client has always supported 'Shift', 'Command', 'Control' and (until now) the 'Option' key as modifiers, giving Mac users hotkey access to four quickslot bars.

    It appears that the dropping of support for 'Option' has to do with limitations in the WINE environment. Whether these can be resolved with a customization of WINE or a workaround is not clear; I queried technical support about this a couple of weeks ago but have received no response, to date.

    As an alternative, I'm wondering if it is possible to allow COMBINATIONS of modifier keys (e.g., 'Command-Shift-hotkey' or 'Command-Control-hotkey') as a way of providing hotkey access to more than 3 quickslot bars. Modifier key combinations are supported in the MacOS and in some parts of Windows; I haven't seen anything to indicate that WINE could not pass them through to the app.

    How about it, SSG? What, if anything, can we do to restore this functionality?

    Nai i eleni síluvar tielyannar! (Quenya: "May the Stars Shine Upon Your Paths")
    Last edited by TengwarWriter; Jun 26 2019 at 07:40 PM.
    Valdaquende, lvl 76 Loremaster (Laurelin)
    Pharazir, lvl 55 Burglar (Laurelin)
    http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf/ <-(Middle Earth languages)
    www.elvish.org <-(Elvish writing & languages)

 

 

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