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  1. #1

    @Devs How is this not nerfed yet ?

    @Vastin, literally burgs atm have everything, strongest single target DPS in the game, with the strongest defensives in the game, good CC... why do you have to break every class you planning to "rework", beornings were so weak but when you decided to buff them, they became the most broken healers in game, now same for burgs, burg was a useless class but now literally broken. but i don't see any sign of nerfs coming soon, can you please consider checking burgs again ? but this time not just for landscape tier but for raiding t3 tier, and check how broken they are ?
    Please Listen to the feedback

  2. #2
    You say, 'Vethúg Wintermind (6m 23.3s);xxxx- Dmg: 70.17M; DPS: 183.0K;' this is while being not properly geared, strongest ST dps and having the strongest CC defensive skills + a skill that makes me able to reset almost every skill i have , #balanced btw

  3. #3
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    Making burglars (a mostly support class) the most damaging class its just stupid.Champions and hunters should make that dps at single not burglars unless you think that Bilbo was stronger than Gimli and Legolas.Burglars update was completely fail they should get some dps so they can be able to do 3 man instances and offer some more dps to an entire group raid but not make them so overpowered.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    Making burglars (a mostly support class) the most damaging class its just stupid.Champions and hunters should make that dps at single not burglars unless you think that Bilbo was stronger than Gimli and Legolas.Burglars update was completely fail they should get some dps so they can be able to do 3 man instances and offer some more dps to an entire group raid but not make them so overpowered.
    It would be ok that red burg deals the most damage, because he is mele and needs posi damage.
    The Problem is, that he still offers very good support and is extreeeeeeeemly tanky.

    My suggestion, remove most utility in redline (so its a pure damage spec) or nerf its damage to compensate for the utility/survivability.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    It would be ok that red burg deals the most damage, because he is mele and needs posi damage.
    The Problem is, that he still offers very good support and is extreeeeeeeemly tanky.

    My suggestion, remove most utility in redline (so its a pure damage spec) or nerf its damage to compensate for the utility/survivability.
    Taking the essence of a support class for dps spec is not really the way to go in my opinion. Burg should have decent support even in red line, and Fully red investment should reward with decent dps that will help a lot the group but never match a true dps role class' potential. At the moment burgs are just way better than any other dps class if played well. Only wardens seem to be close if they are using non LI for some bleeds and throne 4 piece set. And I'm not talking about most OP deffensive skill for a dps class which is provoke, literally in most fights of this game you can go full glass cannon because you will always have 1 provoke ready to receive half the damage. It's terrible design. Trait trees should make classes be able to fulfill a secondary role effectively for easier content but never outperform a class that got it as main role.

  6. #6
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    Thank you people that are plain envious of whatever. Just go ahead roll up a Burglar instead and if you think the class is really that strong. Enjoy.

    Hunter and RK has better DPS, still after rework. And it is ranged.

    Burglar CC is very conditioned. And comes in a different fron DPS speck. So LM is still better BTW.

    What was added is small aoe. NOT single target DPS. All of DPS a Burglar has is also as is already mentioned on the spot and positional (bonus from attacking from the back)

    None of these things that people so patiently imagine really overlap. (different trait tree lines)

    IN order to be somewhat better melee character if one does not slot vit and mitigations then they are an instant kill by a flying ####.

    Please stop hating and get back to plating. Burglar class is somewhat ok to play now in a small group. Is it not a good thing?
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  7. #7
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    The idea that Burg class is "tanky" is simply absurd. It just does not exist in the game.

    Our self heals are minimal and our abilities + morale potion allow for nothing.

    Anyone that has played something like a champion and has things like horn of gondor (In champion's AOE trait tree line) just has no clue what it takes to do something similar for a burg.

    Just really leave us alone, be happy we can actually play the game. And yes we still are not #1 in DPS, aoe, cc, tank (give me a break). There is still a class that does each of these things better.

    Just because we like to play a Burglar it should not mean that we must be useless one buff class to stand on the edge of the fight.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    Thank you people that are plain envious of whatever. Just go ahead roll up a Burglar instead and if you think the class is really that strong. Enjoy.

    Hunter and RK has better DPS, still after rework. And it is ranged.

    Burglar CC is very conditioned. And comes in a different fron DPS speck. So LM is still better BTW.

    What was added is small aoe. NOT single target DPS. All of DPS a Burglar has is also as is already mentioned on the spot and positional (bonus from attacking from the back)

    None of these things that people so patiently imagine really overlap. (different trait tree lines)

    IN order to be somewhat better melee character if one does not slot vit and mitigations then they are an instant kill by a flying ####.

    Please stop hating and get back to plating. Burglar class is somewhat ok to play now in a small group. Is it not a good thing?
    this is false. burg dps is way better than hunter and RK dps, as a ST, and even for aoe - 3 man at least-, and if you are doing less dps than a hunter in a raid, then surely you are doing something wrong. bring me a hunter who did 180k+ dps ST on boss 3 then i might believe you.
    burg CC is very helpful, i don't see how conditioned it is, maybe in a t3 raid yes since most of mobs are immune to cc, but anywhere else it is very useful as any class with CC skills
    and the idea of burg is being tanky is actually very true, do you even realize how many defensive skills you have ? and how short is their cds, not to mention a skill that reset almost all of your skills.

    noone is hating on burg, they were a useless class and deserved some buffs, but that doesn't mean to overbuff it. the class is literally broken right now, have everything. i don't mind burg being the most ST dps, they should be, but their utility need to be nerfed a lot.
    Please Listen to the feedback

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    Thank you people that are plain envious of whatever. Just go ahead roll up a Burglar instead and if you think the class is really that strong. Enjoy.

    Hunter and RK has better DPS, still after rework. And it is ranged.

    Burglar CC is very conditioned. And comes in a different fron DPS speck. So LM is still better BTW.

    What was added is small aoe. NOT single target DPS. All of DPS a Burglar has is also as is already mentioned on the spot and positional (bonus from attacking from the back)

    None of these things that people so patiently imagine really overlap. (different trait tree lines)

    IN order to be somewhat better melee character if one does not slot vit and mitigations then they are an instant kill by a flying ####.

    Please stop hating and get back to plating. Burglar class is somewhat ok to play now in a small group. Is it not a good thing?
    No Hunters and RKs dont have better dps than burglars and champions are in even worst position than before.Atm burglars dps is way to overpower.Ofc its good that they can play 3 man instances but its not ok to do WAY more dps from dps classes and take dps spots in raids while they already had one spot fixed as support class no matter the raid since the release of the game.Its different thing to give some dps so they can do small instances and different to make them the top dd in game.So after burglars update there are no balance,not even close, if things remain as it is then i am expecting big dps update for all the dps classes as well especially for champions.
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  10. #10
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    I all the time hunt with Hunters, RK, champs and so on.

    Hunters and RK are WAY more powerful as DPS. There is not even a question. Around them everything dies as I just run in direction of targets.

    And champs have very powerful AOE + heavy armor. Can actually go "chunk" or single target. All very poverful. But obviously melee range.

    Burg dps and support comes in different trait lines.
    So can not have both in the same time.
    Our support is not as good as Cap or LM or Minstrel or RK.

    Our DPS numbers are no where as good as RK and Hunters. All you need to do to find this out is do a single 3 man instance with them. But guess what we have some DPS now.
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  11. #11
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    And no we do not have "everything".

    And thank you very much for your absolutely full of nonsense posts.

    Support is yellow line. For some abilities active tricks need to be removed. ( conditioned, i think)

    DPS is in Red line where damage benefits from position as well.

    And i don't want to think about how much hunters can do in damage, I am happy they do better then me.
    So, what is the problem people have? Something is no longer useless (whole class in this instance) and some one who does not play that class is upset?

    Oh, just enjoy your life, please.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    and the idea of burg is being tanky is actually very true, do you even realize how many defensive skills you have ? and how short is their cds, not to mention a skill that reset almost all of your skills.

    Even more amazing, made up ideas.

    Defensive skills now?

    Short cooldowns?

    Tanky?

    Stop dreaming about things that do not exist.
    And if it bothers you do much, roll up a Burglar. Just do not expect to tank anything with it. Well 20 levels under, should not be a problem. You know.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    Even more amazing, made up ideas.

    Defensive skills now?

    Short cooldowns?

    Tanky?

    Stop dreaming about things that do not exist.
    And if it bothers you do much, roll up a Burglar. Just do not expect to tank anything with it. Well 20 levels under, should not be a problem. You know.
    It's like talking against a wall, a good Burg out dps every class currently, just because you can't reach these numbers it does not mean the burg class, in general, can't.
    Besides the longer def cd of the burg, provoke is way to effective in current anvil content, you always have one stack up before the big hits are coming in.
    in 90% of the cases the Burglar is the last man standing when it comes to a wipe, what is not a problem in general but combined with way to much dps and utility is becomes a problem, imo.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    I all the time hunt with Hunters, RK, champs and so on.

    Hunters and RK are WAY more powerful as DPS. There is not even a question. Around them everything dies as I just run in direction of targets.
    ahh, that explains everything ... well here is the surprise, in t2/t3 raid, burg who knows how to dps properly actually outdps hunters/rks by far amount. Noone really cares about landscape quests since any class that is not even level capped can easily do lvl 120 landscape quests with absolutely no problems.
    Please Listen to the feedback

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    I all the time hunt with Hunters, RK, champs and so on.

    Hunters and RK are WAY more powerful as DPS. There is not even a question. Around them everything dies as I just run in direction of targets.

    And champs have very powerful AOE + heavy armor. Can actually go "chunk" or single target. All very poverful. But obviously melee range.

    Burg dps and support comes in different trait lines.
    So can not have both in the same time.
    Our support is not as good as Cap or LM or Minstrel or RK.

    Our DPS numbers are no where as good as RK and Hunters. All you need to do to find this out is do a single 3 man instance with them. But guess what we have some DPS now.
    In a normal raid setup like for example boss 1-2-3 of anvil in t3 (boss 4 got more variations so it cannot really be useful to compare dps).

    Boss 1: Red burg can do best ST dps by far, got an extra FSM for the group (which is pretty awesome for that boss in t3). And got 2 OP emergency skills that can be used twice if needed: Knives out (basically being immune to damage), touch and go (which gives + 15% mit and some evade chance and greatly reduces damage you get during a long time). Apart from that you got literally always a provoke for every belly flop and even you can have provoke for purple eye. In fact burg is the only dps class that can just stand while having purple eye in this boss without dying, since you will have 5 provokes during the duration of the eye and then you will have knives out and touch and go which all of them allow you to survive if you're not in a glass cannon build and have some morale.

    Boss 2: Apart from being able to survive the sunderer and rill-seeker with provoke, you can interrupt efficiently, and deal most dps of all classes in here unless there's a huge AOE favoured dwarf setup. In the worst case scenario for a burg (6 dwarves all in the same spot so all classes can aoe). Wrds and Champs would do like 250-275k dps at the end. Rks would do 220-230k dps, Hunts would do 150k or so, and burgs would easily do between rk and wrd/champ, with the added utility of having an extra reveal weakness for a dwarf.

    Boss 3: In t2 since it's basically dps fight, wards can reach 200k, Hunts can reach 180k, Burgs can reach 220-230k dps. In t3 there's knockbacks and such but still outdps any other class.

    Come on, a burg can outdps EVERY class in the game by a fair amount. But there's the same issue as some other classes, good burgs will outdps every other class in the game with a huge difference, but bad burgs will be behind most dps classes even when they have the most OP class. Even a good yellow burg will finish all t2 boss fights with over 100k dps, which is not so far behind hunt-RK-wrd.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Wargtatics View Post
    You say, 'Vethúg Wintermind (6m 23.3s);xxxx- Dmg: 70.17M; DPS: 183.0K;' this is while being not properly geared, strongest ST dps and having the strongest CC defensive skills + a skill that makes me able to reset almost every skill i have , #balanced btw
    Are you the same "Wargtactics" that got your Warg deleted for exploiting on Arkenstone? If so, you should be trying to get Burgs nerfed in the PvP section, as a newly rerolled red rank warg who doesn't like Burgs, rather than here with an ulterior motive.
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  17. #17
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    The creep tears in this thread are something else. Let's balance wargs first ... oh wait, the mere suggestion of that brought a flood of creep tears -- https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...balance-passes . Well I guess the burg buff is you warg luvers, warg players, and warg-friends just deserts, mm mmmm so delicious
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPowers View Post
    ahh, that explains everything ... well here is the surprise, in t2/t3 raid, burg who knows how to dps properly actually outdps hunters/rks by far amount. Noone really cares about landscape quests since any class that is not even level capped can easily do lvl 120 landscape quests with absolutely no problems.
    Silly. 12 man raid is not the place for the Burglar to DPS. But there is a rule of common sense not to explain things to people that do not understand simple things. See, explanations make it complex and they already missed the point.

    Also: "burg who knows how to dps properly actually outdps hunters/rks by far amount" there is no such thing."

    Just stop the lecturing and hating.

    What is the point of it all?

    I have seen comparison Hunters and RK are range and better sustained and because they are range in a lot of situations nothing gets to them and so they can be more of glass cannons. I am just convinced of that. And I am fine with it too as it stands now.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    In a normal raid setup like for example boss 1-2-3 of anvil in t3 (boss 4 got more variations so it cannot really be useful to compare dps).

    Boss 1: Red burg can do best ST dps by far, got an extra FSM for the group (which is pretty awesome for that boss in t3). And got 2 OP emergency skills that can be used twice if needed: Knives out (basically being immune to damage), touch and go (which gives + 15% mit and some evade chance and greatly reduces damage you get during a long time). Apart from that you got literally always a provoke for every belly flop and even you can have provoke for purple eye. In fact burg is the only dps class that can just stand while having purple eye in this boss without dying, since you will have 5 provokes during the duration of the eye and then you will have knives out and touch and go which all of them allow you to survive if you're not in a glass cannon build and have some morale.

    Boss 2: Apart from being able to survive the sunderer and rill-seeker with provoke, you can interrupt efficiently, and deal most dps of all classes in here unless there's a huge AOE favoured dwarf setup. In the worst case scenario for a burg (6 dwarves all in the same spot so all classes can aoe). Wrds and Champs would do like 250-275k dps at the end. Rks would do 220-230k dps, Hunts would do 150k or so, and burgs would easily do between rk and wrd/champ, with the added utility of having an extra reveal weakness for a dwarf.

    Boss 3: In t2 since it's basically dps fight, wards can reach 200k, Hunts can reach 180k, Burgs can reach 220-230k dps. In t3 there's knockbacks and such but still outdps any other class.

    Come on, a burg can outdps EVERY class in the game by a fair amount. But there's the same issue as some other classes, good burgs will outdps every other class in the game with a huge difference, but bad burgs will be behind most dps classes even when they have the most OP class. Even a good yellow burg will finish all t2 boss fights with over 100k dps, which is not so far behind hunt-RK-wrd.
    Your point?

    Burglars in different trait trees have many things. Good. So?

    "Even a good yellow burg will finish all t2 boss fights with over 100k dps, which is not so far behind hunt-RK-wrd."

    -First you explain to others that they are less then smart in a way they play the game. (sorry i play games to enjoy them not to prove anything)

    -Then you propose nonexistent ideal scenario that demonstrates your superiority of thinking. (Please just get on with it already, enjoy)

    -Then the overall outrage and need to nerf the class. because: "Come on, a burg can outdps EVERY class in the game by a fair amount." (That is not my belief, well maybe in a tank-with aggro keeping ability / healer / burglar standing behind the target. All in great gear, all very stationary. Never happens, really.)



    PS.

    In regards to life saving skills. They do not have cool down short enough to make Burglar into a tank, by no close stretch at all.
    Touch and Go can be used 1 time in 5 min.
    Ready and able is also 5 min. (The skill that resets the above)
    So touch and go can be used 1 time in 2.5 min total.

    And I use it all the time as a way to heal morale in an emergency. That with a morale potion makes for 3 healing skills in a space of 3 min. That is NOT how one becomes a tank. It is possible to survive in a situation when you are not oneshot though.

    Oh and here is everyone's favorite, the "immunity" one:
    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Knives_Out
    Cool down 2 min, duration 10 sec.

    Call me a tank, just don't ask me to tank anything. Because we will all just die. Let them RK tank everything :P

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  20. #20
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    The whole moors and all the creeps should be deleted and forgotten. It's a source of game disrupting immature drama
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    Silly. 12 man raid is not the place for the Burglar to DPS. But there is a rule of common sense not to explain things to people that do not understand simple things. See, explanations make it complex and they already missed the point.

    Also: "burg who knows how to dps properly actually outdps hunters/rks by far amount" there is no such thing."

    Just stop the lecturing and hating.

    What is the point of it all?

    I have seen comparison Hunters and RK are range and better sustained and because they are range in a lot of situations nothing gets to them and so they can be more of glass cannons. I am just convinced of that. And I am fine with it too as it stands now.
    But are you serious? 12 man raid is the place for burg to dps if he's able to outperform every other class, I don't know why it shouldn't if it's the end game. But in a 6 man burgs outdps any other class too.

    Yes, burg who know how to dps properly is fairly ahead of rk and hunt, only scenario in which burgs cannot really outdps hunts/rks is probably in a fight where you can't go melee or if you're always out of captain banner on burg.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    But are you serious? 12 man raid is the place for burg to dps if he's able to outperform every other class, I don't know why it shouldn't if it's the end game. But in a 6 man burgs outdps any other class too.

    Yes, burg who know how to dps properly is fairly ahead of rk and hunt, only scenario in which burgs cannot really outdps hunts/rks is probably in a fight where you can't go melee or if you're always out of captain banner on burg.
    Thank you for your contribution that accomplishes NOTHING good.

    But I am done with this. Explaining simple things to others makes these simple things complex. As I said. What are the chances! (:
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  23. #23
    first of all, please leave your pvp drama out of this thread. i don't pvp and i don't care about pvp, i am only talking from a t2/t3 raiding perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    Silly. 12 man raid is not the place for the Burglar to DPS. But there is a rule of common sense not to explain things to people that do not understand simple things. See, explanations make it complex and they already missed the point.

    Also: "burg who knows how to dps properly actually outdps hunters/rks by far amount" there is no such thing."

    Just stop the lecturing and hating.

    What is the point of it all?

    I have seen comparison Hunters and RK are range and better sustained and because they are range in a lot of situations nothing gets to them and so they can be more of glass cannons. I am just convinced of that. And I am fine with it too as it stands now.
    12 man raid is not the place for the burglar to dps. yet they do the most ST dps in the 12 man raid, idk if you don't measure "class balance" on the end game t2/t3 raiding content, where you would measure it. apparently from your speaking to landscape quests where a lvl 115 freep can easily finish end game landscape quests since it is extremely easy . but anyways, I'm done arguing as well, no point really.. all i want is a reply from vastin about the future of redline burg, will it be left as broken as it is right now or there will be some nerfs/adjusts happen, hope i get a response from him.
    Please Listen to the feedback

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPowers View Post
    first of all, please leave your pvp drama out of this thread. i don't pvp and i don't care about pvp, i am only talking from a t2/t3 raiding perspective.



    12 man raid is not the place for the burglar to dps. yet they do the most ST dps in the 12 man raid, idk if you don't measure "class balance" on the end game t2/t3 raiding content, where you would measure it. apparently from your speaking to landscape quests where a lvl 115 freep can easily finish end game landscape quests since it is extremely easy . but anyways, I'm done arguing as well, no point really.. all i want is a reply from vastin about the future of redline burg, will it be left as broken as it is right now or there will be some nerfs/adjusts happen, hope i get a response from him.
    Envy will never make anyone's life happy. Your problems will just get projected on to a new imaginary issue

    Burglars do not make most dps and will never make most dps. Because of the movement issue. You lose dps rounds when you move. Also this is not anyones definition of broken but yours. If Burglar class can dps, why is it broken?

    If our DPS in red line is top, why is it wrong? (It isn't, hunters and RK are still higher and also sustained)

    If a burglar runs other then yellow in a 12 man raid with a moving target then they are wasting raid spot. Simple as that. Yellow line is not DPS focused btw.
    But why is it that people get upset is any class gets a buff. This one was expected since 2011 and is well deserved.
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPowers View Post
    12 man raid is not the place for the burglar to dps.
    I absolutely think burglars need to be nerfed, but this statement is nonsensical. Red burglars should be able to DPS in a raid as much as any DPS spec. Just because your personal preference says that they shouldn't, doesn't make it right. You cannot give a single justification for why a red burglar should objectively be any less viable of a DPS than a red hunter. You can try, and fail, if you wish, but this statement is purely an opinion, and yet you try to pass it off as a fact.
    Feailuve, Akabath, Failure - Evernight
    Also known as Giliodor

 

 
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