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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jljohnson4 View Post
    From what I've seen, the burgs that are dropping 200k dps are using glass cannon builds with 380k+ Crit rating and no moral or mit essences to be seen. As it stands T2 Anvil is Unique in that a burg can take almost no damage in most boss fights unless it gets selected directly through an eye mechanic. To think adding or subtracting dps is the only way to achieve balance is pretty narrow minded. Think outside the box. For example they could make bosses throw out some multi hit melee aoe attacks. Perhaps attacks that only hit characters behind the target (tail swipes and such). Watch those glass cannon burgs go bye bye. Like I said before, the current raid was not designed with the current burg status in mind.
    This is a very good valid point to make.

    People make unreasonable choices, let them.

    From what I have seen, usually, they 99% of the time pay for it. And they should. Glass cannon phenomena is good and is limiting for all classes. When some one does it in a melee range class they should be able to do that because it is such a precarious thing to do.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    in this case, burgs dps is too high. If everyone that plays the game for hardmodes tells you that... just maybe they might be right?
    Just for your information. I do not believe they are really *telling* me. For I have inserted myself into this discussion. It is more like we are all having a discussion and hope that devs will take a look and take sides. The title is starting @devs. But sure we are on opposite sides.

    I started this discussion on Burglars in these forums a while back and got criticized and told that Burglars do not need buff but need nerf. Then slowly, slowly people came around and forums were FILLED with feedback asking for help / rework and boost of Burglar's DPS. Then and there were obviously detractors.

    Now changes have taken place, rework has taken place. Guess what, we again, as always have detractors. Am I surprised? -No.

    I had a person come up to me on my server in IM and ask me to look at my gear, without Hello. Then when i got them onto the side of civility and "Hello" and they saw my gear they said: "I read your forum posts and i disagree". There was no any other feedback from them at all. I never found out anything else. If one has opinions, forums are here, state them. What devs will do, is a whole other story. Or one can also pretend to be a "know it all" and just try to put others down without articulating their ideas a whole lot.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jljohnson4 View Post
    ...............380k+ Crit rating and no moral or mit essences to be seen............
    This is the idea. Game has a ton of options for gear and things like relics and essences. Higher up you go more options open up. One can slot any type of essence they want. And why not. And yes there were some people talking about how essence gear broke the game. Well this is the situation we are in, get used to it or not up to you.

    PS.

    I wish there were even more choices for even more gear. What happened for example with the featured instance gear, why we have to go to level cap instance of 120 but can no longer trade for that gear?
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  4. #54
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    Creeps and moors should just be either COMPLETELY reworked or deleted, as it is, it is 100% unhealthy emotional drama filled place for very select few people. It just does not work / fit into current state of the game, at all.

    Two paths:

    #1. Delete the whole monster play.

    #2. Update monster play to be available to non VIP accounts.
    -Make area and monster play classes available through LP just like Warden, RK, Beorning.

    -Open all landscape for all monster play classes. Keeping City landscapes and other "safe areas" (where there are quest or guard NPC of any Freep type present) Monster play characters free. Something like all the guards could have an insta kill on all creeps they see, anywhere.

    -Make PvP on all Freeps and Creeps a toggle option. If it is not on: you can not fight them.

    Option Number two would give a HUGE (it is 6!!) number of classes to the game. Would open up landscape to the existing players that play on that side and make them happy? (if it is possible).

    As a result the game could suddenly have 16 classes in place of 10 plus unknown to most PvMp.
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  5. #55
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    What? a nerve on the burglar ??

    So I'm dreaming ... I only play pvp, Blackarrow does better than the hunter and deals melee damage with 1 skill and 3 traps. After U24, the traps are always broken. Where is the nerve? Yes the burglar has a good dps with a medium armor, but they fight in melee ... by dint of shouting, you'll have a nerf ...

    How many wargs in pvp? how much to reaver in pvp? all players play zerg on blackarrow and defiler .

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzuriha_EN View Post
    I feel just one joke here, you.
    I understand your frustration, the warg is broken... I play with my warg and I can not get anything ... ask ssg to put a foot in the moors and we cross our fingers .

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnumum View Post
    I understand your frustration, the warg is broken... I play with my warg and I can not get anything ... ask ssg to put a foot in the moors and we cross our fingers .
    That is THE point. Thank you.

    I wish all players and classes on Monster Play Character side to be happy.

    Maybe you guys need to scream demanding buffs and changes to Monster Play and SSG will suddenly notice that there is a player base and / or interest there?
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  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnumum View Post
    I play with my warg and I can not get anything ...
    But you are just too bad
    Last edited by Yuzuriha_EN; Jun 13 2019 at 11:30 PM.
    Farruquita (R13 Blackarrow) - Isabelpantoja (R12 Warg) - Laprimaderiesgo (R10 Reaver) - Exxuverancia (R10 Defiler) - Shakirah (R10 Warleader) - Sthlysia (R8 Spider) [Creep status: Ultra casual] | Yuzuriha (R10 Guardian) - Fresita (R7 Burglar) [Freep status: Retired since 2011] | LotRO since March 30, 2007 - Game's Founders Club

  9. #59

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    One signature for your consideration:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQoyI24UCK0
    Farruquita (R13 Blackarrow) - Isabelpantoja (R12 Warg) - Laprimaderiesgo (R10 Reaver) - Exxuverancia (R10 Defiler) - Shakirah (R10 Warleader) - Sthlysia (R8 Spider) [Creep status: Ultra casual] | Yuzuriha (R10 Guardian) - Fresita (R7 Burglar) [Freep status: Retired since 2011] | LotRO since March 30, 2007 - Game's Founders Club

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by jljohnson4 View Post
    From what I've seen, the burgs that are dropping 200k dps are using glass cannon builds with 380k+ Crit rating and no moral or mit essences to be seen. As it stands T2 Anvil is Unique in that a burg can take almost no damage in most boss fights unless it gets selected directly through an eye mechanic. To think adding or subtracting dps is the only way to achieve balance is pretty narrow minded. Think outside the box. For example they could make bosses throw out some multi hit melee aoe attacks. Perhaps attacks that only hit characters behind the target (tail swipes and such). Watch those glass cannon burgs go bye bye. Like I said before, the current raid was not designed with the current burg status in mind.
    They dont have to position themselves behind the mob to make those numbers,they stay beside me in front line and they do 20-30k more dps from everyone.Their dps output is way to high and i dont want any kind of melee penalty to stop them thank you very much cause melee unfriendly mechanics will effect other melee classes too.We already had one Mordor we dont need another one.
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  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by jljohnson4 View Post
    *Sniff Sniff* It smell like creep in here. Although currently end game, the Anvil raid is old content by comparison to the recent burg changes. The instance wasn't made with them in mind as the changes didn't exist for months after the raid came into being. The burglar was just among the first to get an overhaul with future game content in mind. More than likely a makeover of other classes will follow in the coming months... but by all means lets complain and cry like babies about the state of things now without giving any consideration to the state of things to come. smh
    that's a very poor arguement, not to mention that anvil is still a fairly new content considering that the next raid won't be released or even be on BR until at least 8 months from now, but also we compare the classes between eachother, most of the classes got their "big" rework already, beorning,LM,hunter,champ,guard ,warden, and burg.... what only remain right now is the RK/captain...and burg right now compared to hunter/rk/champ and basically any other dps class, is far more broken, way higher dps, a lot more utility and defensive skills. like legit you only need your skills to be ranged to be the most broken class that ever existed in lotro.

    apparently you and the other burg are the ones cry like babies and blindly defend burg just to enjoy playing a broken class.

    PS: and as i said, i don't pvp and i don't care about pvp ^_^
    Please Listen to the feedback

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    Thank you. I love it when people tell me that I got MARBLES.

    Now get off your marshmallows and go ahead list all abilities you can think of, in all trait trees of entire class. (it will look like you got marbles too)
    You said you had no support at all in red line. I showed you 6 pure support skills available in red line. You somehow only did read the last word or anything cause marbles are not the reason I said burglars got support in red line but the sum of those 6 skills is definitely a support from which marbles is probably the weakest one. Oh, and I forgot addle which reduces tactical damage.

    And stop talking nonsense. In raid environment with acceptable melee support there's no class that have higher dps than burglar in single target at the end of a fight. All with same stats.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    They dont have to position themselves behind the mob to make those numbers,they stay beside me in front line and they do 20-30k more dps from everyone.
    Oh really? I would love to see some supporting proof to your claims. Our big dps skills hit for literally 40%ish less by not utilizing positional. What burg do you know who is purposely not using positional in the raid? They need help. An even better question is why you are standing in front of the boss with the guard?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPowers View Post
    that's a very poor arguement, not to mention that anvil is still a fairly new content considering that the next raid won't be released or even be on BR until at least 8 months from now, but also we compare the classes between eachother, most of the classes got their "big" rework already, beorning,LM,hunter,champ,guard ,warden, and burg.... what only remain right now is the RK/captain...and burg right now compared to hunter/rk/champ and basically any other dps class, is far more broken, way higher dps, a lot more utility and defensive skills. like legit you only need your skills to be ranged to be the most broken class that ever existed in lotro.

    apparently you and the other burg are the ones cry like babies and blindly defend burg just to enjoy playing a broken class.

    PS: and as i said, i don't pvp and i don't care about pvp ^_^
    Your assumption that just because classes were updated before means they wont be updated again, is incorrect. Just because the raid is the most current raid doesn't make it up to date. The Anvil raid itself was changed at least 2 previous times just to accommodate for class skills. i.e. Boss 1 being changed because of the Guardian run speed buff and Boss 4 being changed because of the RK Fates Stone and Captain bubble. It can certainly be updated again to deal with glass cannon burgs.

    Where exactly have I been crying? Your narrow mindedness is your own fault. Blindly? I mean... I've actually played the class under discussion as a main for 10 years and am familiar with what it can (and can't) do. So I think not.

    PS: Maybe you should try pvp... Getting farmed by the creeps might give you some... perspective ^_^

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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jljohnson4 View Post
    Oh really? I would love to see some supporting proof to your claims. Our big dps skills hit for literally 40%ish less by not utilizing positional. What burg do you know who is purposely not using positional in the raid? They need help. An even better question is why you are standing in front of the boss with the guard?
    I am not standing in front of the boss ofc i say that they sand beside me and they do those numbers so if they put some melee penalty mechanics like you said then they well effect me aswel.Also at last boss they dont have to position themselves and still do massive damage.
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    You said you had no support at all in red line. I showed you 6 pure support skills available in red line. You somehow only did read the last word or anything cause marbles are not the reason I said burglars got support in red line but the sum of those 6 skills is definitely a support from which marbles is probably the weakest one. Oh, and I forgot addle which reduces tactical damage.

    And stop talking nonsense. In raid environment with acceptable melee support there's no class that have higher dps than burglar in single target at the end of a fight. All with same stats.
    Good.

    I mean, look why the pissing contest. Is it hard or easy to see the obvious stuff?

    Oh and yes there are a lot of people that seem to have issues understanding game interface. I explain it to myself as them being casual. However if you are somewhat of a regular and post in forums, all this stuff is pretty simple.

    So you say 6?

    Enrage is pretty far down in Yellow line. -Not red.

    Last marbles that are available I think are level 100.

    So really, we are down to 4. With few people traiting Trip (but it is in red, so ok)
    In red you mostly have these: RW, Adelle, Provoke. As well as many passives that you do not seem to mention. They are similar as "Blade Wall debuffs" The thing is, every class has stuff like this.

    Now in Yellow Burgs have some real nice support. No argument on that. But to trait yellow support from red DPS, that would have to be "very personal" type of build. And then just to let you know that I never go past tier 2 of traits in yellow within my build. -And even that is really a waste of that DPS.

    So, why the pissing contest again?

    You with your hunter logo pop up in Buglar forums and demand we be nerfed?

    If i was a regular forums child I would tell you, get out of here learn how to DPS on your hunter.

    But Not Really My Style.

    However, still what's up with all this?
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    I am not standing in front of the boss ofc i say that they sand beside me and they do those numbers so if they put some melee penalty mechanics like you said then they well effect me aswel.Also at last boss they dont have to position themselves and still do massive damage.
    Welcome here Sir.

    Thank you for coming. Long live the creeps, I say. For i seriously believe that you UNVERIFIABLE claims are burried DEEP within your signature (like 3rd line?):

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    As currently CA does not show data for fellowship members. Where does come the certainty from?

    But then again this earlier:

    Originally Posted by Arandour
    They dont have to position themselves behind the mob to make those numbers,they stay beside me in front line and they do 20-30k more dps from everyone.
    Then this late:

    Originally Posted by Arandour
    I am not standing in front of the boss ofc i say that they sand beside me and they do those numbers so if they put some melee penalty mechanics like you said then they well effect me aswel.Also at last boss they dont have to position themselves and still do massive damage.
    Just make up your mind Sir.

    So, unless there is nothing, back to your signature posted above.

    Just concentrate into asking for something good for Creeps. Because guess what Freep side is so big, some of us do not even have time or interest to come to the moors.
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    Welcome here Sir.

    Thank you for coming. Long live the creeps, I say. For i seriously believe that you UNVERIFIABLE claims are burried DEEP within your signature (like 3rd line?):



    As currently CA does not show data for fellowship members. Where does come the certainty from?

    But then again this earlier:



    Then this late:



    Just make up your mind Sir.

    So, unless there is nothing, back to your signature posted above.

    Just concentrate into asking for something good for Creeps. Because guess what Freep side is so big, some of us do not even have time or interest to come to the moors.


    I dont give a damn about freeps creeps or ettens at this time.I play this game for 12 years so i have made plenty of chars some of those are creeps yes and i was playing with them for couple of years but havent log my creeps for at least 2-3 years anyway and i am in no tribe or active at ettens you can check that easily.So my intentions are not to nerf burglars cause i play creep.
    My reason is that i bust my ### to learn how to swapping weapons for getting that 10-15% more dps so i can be close with the range,practicing at least 3 hours per day my rotations in the damn dummys ,make my kin to change even its game style so can give some proper support to melees and when i finally succeed it out of nowhere an update come and made burglars do 30k more dps than everyone and send my class in even worst position than it was when the range ruled this game.
    My main is champion and i care only about my main not any other char that you sow in that signature that is there for years.
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    I dont give a damn about freeps creeps or ettens at this time.I play this game for 12 years so i have made plenty of chars some of those are creeps yes and i was playing with them for couple of years but havent log my creeps for at least 2-3 years anyway and i am in no tribe or active at ettens you can check that easily.So my intentions are not to nerf burglars cause i play creep.
    My reason is that i bust my ### to learn how to swapping weapons for getting that 10-15% more dps so i can be close with the range,practicing at least 3 hours per day my rotations in the damn dummys ,make my kin to change even its game style so can give some proper support to melees and when i finally succeed it out of nowhere an update come and made burglars do 30k more dps than everyone and send my class in even worst position than it was when the range ruled this game.
    My main is champion and i care only about my main not any other char that you sow in that signature that is there for years.
    I think I understand everything that you have written.

    If you are a player with 12 years experience, that is a HUGE value to have behind any class. At this point it is for you without doubt all about playing a class that you like. Putting these two together I can not understand your logic for perceived superiority of any given class.

    Meaning you good
    Meaning your class is strong.

    Now I have a 115 champion but i do not play him, really. So I can not comment too much on your class issues.

    Not all Burglar players will be good, not all will build glass cannons. So, not all will have that damage that you *think* you know about. -Still a fact.

    I have seen what a good hunter can do. So many things die without reaching them, this is superiority of the ranged class DPS and if you want to play DPS style class you should really play a ranged DPS. Unless Combat analysssis can be updated to provide data from fellowship there will not be concrete enough proof for me to see that Burglar can out damage hunter.
    Again: Hunter will get SEVERAL hits in way before an enemy could even reach them.
    Could kite.
    Could stand far.
    Could even attack enemies out of melee class range.

    RK if traited and geared for damage is very similar.

    So, in what way would you be put in a bad spot if your whole kinship is there for you and is willing to change their whole play style?

    Solution to your problems:

    You feel that your favorite class DPS is low on ST.

    Make posts on that ask for Buff. because guess what? You maybe 100% right on that.

    How does that have ANYTHING to do with some other class (Burglar)? That I do not know.
    Last edited by Areyekuwe; Jun 12 2019 at 10:42 PM.
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    Just concentrate into asking for something good for Creeps. Because guess what Freep side is so big, some of us do not even have time or interest to come to the moors.
    Then they should give people an incentive to go there. OH WAIT. Then there would be a massive uproar from the casual players who feel like they're being 'forced' into PVP....

    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    I dont give a damn about freeps creeps or ettens at this time.I play this game for 12 years so i have made plenty of chars some of those are creeps yes and i was playing with them for couple of years but havent log my creeps for at least 2-3 years anyway and i am in no tribe or active at ettens you can check that easily.So my intentions are not to nerf burglars cause i play creep.
    My reason is that i bust my ### to learn how to swapping weapons for getting that 10-15% more dps so i can be close with the range,practicing at least 3 hours per day my rotations in the damn dummys ,make my kin to change even its game style so can give some proper support to melees and when i finally succeed it out of nowhere an update come and made burglars do 30k more dps than everyone and send my class in even worst position than it was when the range ruled this game.
    My main is champion and i care only about my main not any other char that you sow in that signature that is there for years.
    And for all that you complain on the forums... Champs are still joint-top on single-target damage and are the top AoE DPSers.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    out of nowhere an update come
    It's not really out of nowhere.

    I have posted on this for nearly 2 years asking for damage buff.

    Within last half year forums were filled with many people asking for burglar rework with dps boost as one of them.
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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    And for all that you complain on the forums... Champs are still joint-top on single-target damage and are the top AoE DPSers.
    Only very few champs can be the top sometimes and that cause we had "bleed" to achieve it.
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  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    The whole moors and all the creeps should be deleted and forgotten. It's a source of game disrupting immature drama
    nerf burgs to the ground make them beg of 5k dps , i would start again creep only to hunt you
    Last edited by Treliarhs; Jun 13 2019 at 05:11 AM.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post

    Solution to your problems:

    You feel that your favorite class DPS is low on ST.

    Make posts on that ask for Buff. because guess what? You maybe 100% right on that.

    How does that have ANYTHING to do with some other class (Burglar)? That I do not know.
    I don't agree with 95% of your monolog in this thread, but I agree here.
    But again, it's not a problem that the red burg is doing the damage he is doing, its the combination of damage and survivability that worries me.
    You can go full glass cannon (like most dd's can), but you are substantial more tanky then every other no tank class. Im talking mostly about provoke here, i don't get why the burg needs such a strong nearly permanent option to survive everything. He already has strong def cd's (most classes have nothing to compare with).

    The Red Beo damage was intentional kept low because his self heals were too potent. Now I'm asking why is the burg allowed to deal massive damage and is allowed to keep his insane survivability. Most content delivers big hits from time to time, which is ideal for provoke.

    So either nerf the damage in redline or nerf the survivability. I think most red burgs would prefer to keep the damage (what I'm fine with), but having both in such potency is not fair in my opinion.
    No one wants the burg to be nerfed into the ground, just a slightly rebalance, so he does not feel like out of balance class.
    Gertes

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    You feel that your favorite class DPS is low on ST.

    Make posts on that ask for Buff. because guess what? You maybe 100% right on that.

    How does that have ANYTHING to do with some other class (Burglar)? That I do not know.
    If every class that is weak compared to other classes gets buffed, we get overbuffed classes over time (compared to content). SSG has never hit the right spot with buffing any class. They always overbuffed classes, if they "fixed" them or made meaningless changes. Therefore, after overbuffing some class, a nerf to get it into balanced state should follow.
    If it doesn't, class balance work will never be even near finished. A game, where the most potent class changes every half year is the same way unfunny as a game where your chosen class is always the weakest.

    Reliability is quite a decent thing, not just for childrens education, but for gamers, too.


    I never had a problem with the idea of burgs being the best DPSers, if for that positional damage is required and if they are less sturdy than other classes in the same role. But they are not less sturdy than champs, and even wardens only have NS as a viable defense option while DPSing, which is usually considered worse than all the skills burgs have for defense. In the current situation, where burgs, champs, wardens, beornings and guards have melee DPS traitlines (I call cappy support, not DPS), clearly wardens and champs should have higher DPS than burgs, as they have weaker defensive abilities while DPSing.
    Last edited by Oelle; Jun 13 2019 at 06:29 AM.
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  25. #75
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,402
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    If every class that is weak compared to other classes gets buffed, we get overbuffed classes over time (compared to content). SSG has never hit the right spot with buffing any class. They always overbuffed classes, if they "fixed" them or made meaningless changes. Therefore, after overbuffing some class, a nerf to get it into balanced state should follow.
    If it doesn't, class balance work will never be even near finished. A game, where the most potent class changes every half year is the same way unfunny as a game where your chosen class is always the weakest.

    Reliability is quite a decent thing, not just for childrens education, but for gamers, too....
    But that's how the meta game is played. Classes are unequal, particular cliques of players lobby for a nerf or buff. Time goes by and eventually there are changes made. The changes inevitably "miss the mark" for some other group of players, and the lobbying starts again and so the cycle goes. As it happens, each iteration of the cycle requires players to redo their builds, as certain skills are rendered worthless and different ones become the new "must have".

 

 
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