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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kynlee View Post
    And what is that "(an)other" option?

    And for raiding ... "if someone doesn't raid the only reason who hinders him is himself" ... what does that even mean? I appreciate that you took the time to explain raiding and pug groups to me. It was not necessary ... I am a raider. My point was some people CHOOSE to not raid or run with pugs. There is nothing wrong with either choice. MY ENTIRE point is that this is not a game JUST for raiders, others should have options for upgrading gear. This game will not survive without all categories of players .. raiders/casuals/crafters/pet collectors/questers, etc.

    I also have seen a lot of use of "them" and "us" in this thread. There should be no them/us/we/you/me when suggesting that SSG consider their entire player base when introducing new content and rewards. WE (the entire player base which is compised of ALL play styles) should expect to be able to grow our character, even if it is not with BiS items.

    I understand that the items we are discussing (Rimes and Artifacts of the Vale) and the items made with those resources can be bought on AH. People should be able to get level appropriate gear from crafting, questing and playing the game. No one should have to rely on the AH simply beacuse there was only ONE way introduced to obtain an upgraded crafted relic. Yes, I know that there is a purple relic available. That huge +971 pts of will/might/agility is going to make everyone OP with the 1942 Mastery it provides.

    Mukor, you need to look at the big picture. We are all aware that harder content provides GREATER rewards. I hope you are not suggesting that by not doing the harder content that people are entitled to NO reward.

    The mentioned options were a new sixmen and an New dayly.

    And the the only one who Binder you... I sad cause they complain that there is no access except raiding atm to the fragments or buying in the ah. But if I choose not to craft I've nö access to the craft items either.

    Well big picture. The big picture is that we've different parts in the game and each Part gives us access to some items. If I want to have all, I must do All parts or buy the parts in the ah.
    I could also ask were is another option for food but this would be redicolous or?

    Well the game life from all players but I'm disgusted from players which want items for (nearly) free for which other invest a lot of time if not even money.
    Anvil t2 isn't this difficult that somebody can't succeed of he wants.

    Not to forget the topic of this thread to take this option from the raiders. The discussion hladly went in another direction and I'm not totally against other options but they should coat at least some time 250 Token of woodmen/ beor Ing per fragment would be fair.

  2. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    I could also ask were is another option for food but this would be redicolous or?

    Not to forget the topic of this thread to take this option from the raiders. The discussion hladly went in another direction and I'm not totally against other options but they should coat at least some time 250 Token of woodmen/ beor Ing per fragment would be fair.

    Comparing food to crafted items with raid components is not even a fair argument, Mukor.
    Everything can be purchased from the vendor then you need to grow the stuff you need.
    The Ironfold crops then can be broken down into 3 produce.
    You may also need to farm earlier tier crops as well.

    So onto your argument, the alternative is to grow your own stuff. It's not like you are being exploited for buying food like you are with raid components.
    30g per stack (100) of food for regen, resistance and stats does not come nearly as close as 600-1000g for ONE Rime of the Anvil.
    Stop trying to make unfair arguments such as comparing food with raid-component crafts. Get over yourself.
    Farm and cook the food yourself or buy with money you'd get from vendor trash in less than 30 minutes.

    Onto your other argument... yes, the thread was first to remove the option but we went an entirely different direction because I knew I was being unfair to raiders.
    Therefore I started suggesting alternative methods to acquire Fragments of the Anduin, NOT Rime of the Anvil.
    You raiders are exploiting us with overpricing your stupid rimes because we are not raiding for them ourselves.

    Just give it up man. As time marches on, more and more people side against you.
    Just agree with us about the alternative methods and not over inflate the alternatives like you have suggested in many of your replies.
    This game wont survive without every other aspect of the game. LOTRO is not just for raiders.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Comparing food to crafted items with raid components is not even a fair argument, Mukor.
    Everything can be purchased from the vendor then you need to grow the stuff you need.
    The Ironfold crops then can be broken down into 3 produce.
    You may also need to farm earlier tier crops as well.

    So onto your argument, the alternative is to grow your own stuff. It's not like you are being exploited for buying food like you are with raid components.
    30g per stack (100) of food for regen, resistance and stats does not come nearly as close as 600-1000g for ONE Rime of the Anvil.
    Stop trying to make unfair arguments such as comparing food with raid-component crafts. Get over yourself.
    Farm and cook the food yourself or buy with money you'd get from vendor trash in less than 30 minutes.

    Onto your other argument... yes, the thread was first to remove the option but we went an entirely different direction because I knew I was being unfair to raiders.
    Therefore I started suggesting alternative methods to acquire Fragments of the Anduin, NOT Rime of the Anvil.
    You raiders are exploiting us with overpricing your stupid rimes because we are not raiding for them ourselves.

    Just give it up man. As time marches on, more and more people side against you.
    Just agree with us about the alternative methods and not over inflate the alternatives like you have suggested in many of your replies.
    This game wont survive without every other aspect of the game. LOTRO is not just for raiders.
    Raiders are not the cause of this issue. We should not be frustrated with other PLAYERS, we should be frustrated that this situation exists and that SSG did not provide options for all players. We get that at least one poster in this thread does not care about people who do not share his/her playstyle, but that is not the issue. Mukur, we fully understand your position. Please realize that if a viable option to the current gold relic was availalbe, it would not change anything at all for you and your gaming enjoyment. If you are content with the options you have, maybe this is not the post for you, If you are intersted in a "discussion" about what raiders deserve, perhaps you should start another post.

    While I do feel there is no way anyone will always please an entire group, I do feel that the crafted relic is something that has been needed for so long that someone should have anticipated that many would be frustrated with the options introduced. Rather than bickering we should direct our comments SSG and let them know we would like to see a DECENT crafted relic offered that does not require raid aquired components. Please, SSG ... take a look at the crafted relic issue and offer players a viable alternative.

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kynlee View Post
    Raiders are not the cause of this issue. We should not be frustrated with other PLAYERS, we should be frustrated that this situation exists and that SSG did not provide options for all players. We get that at least one poster in this thread does not care about people who do not share his/her playstyle, but that is not the issue. Mukur, we fully understand your position. Please realize that if a viable option to the current gold relic was availalbe, it would not change anything at all for you and your gaming enjoyment. If you are content with the options you have, maybe this is not the post for you, If you are intersted in a "discussion" about what raiders deserve, perhaps you should start another post.

    While I do feel there is no way anyone will always please an entire group, I do feel that the crafted relic is something that has been needed for so long that someone should have anticipated that many would be frustrated with the options introduced. Rather than bickering we should direct our comments SSG and let them know we would like to see a DECENT crafted relic offered that does not require raid aquired components. Please, SSG ... take a look at the crafted relic issue and offer players a viable alternative.
    I understand that all want the golden crafted.
    But I don’t see a different between food and the fragments.
    For food I've to craft or buy it same for the fragments/rime i've to raid or buy it.
    Crafting and raiding are to aspects of the game and either I do it or I've to live with the consequences.

    And to the prices 30 g for a Stack which Ibuy twice or even often per month is around 100 g per month for one Stack, I've to buy two more Stacks food, Token and two scrolls and this would only be the basic consumeables. So I would end with around 450 g per month. Amd this over six month so we're at 2.4k g. Which is the total price of the rimes you need for the relics for one character.
    The only difference is rimes are a big one time investment while buying consumeables is splitted.

    And as said often enough I've nothing against an alternative but it shouldn't be nearree 250 woodmen token would be fair. Max 10 minutes for 9 tokens.

  5. #130
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    Mukor, the argument that a consumable food is on par with a t2 raiding drop is moot, and trying to force the point is just making you look ever so slightly elitist and supporting SSG's push to store model. Find a fairer comparison and you'll have a valid, but more to the point, respected argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    600-1000g for ONE Rime of the Anvil.
    Rimes on EN - lowest AH price yesterday was 2000G, highest was 3200G.

    And this is exactly how it's designed and it's exactly what SSG forecast the prices to be. They knew raiders would power boost the price, and they allowed them to stockpile beforehand to ensure there would be enough of them for sale, after the raiders used what they need for their own relics and whatnot. This is how they get players to dip into the store to purchase stuff to sell, to make enough gold to buy the item in game.

    And this is the bit that pulls Mukor's argument flat to the floor. Nobody, bar none, ever needs to reach to the store to buy items to sell, in order to be able to afford some food. Mukor (and SSG) both know this, but he's hoping you'll fall for the argument.

    When you settle down and understand - this is the design, and its deliberate, you'll move on and forget about the rimes and the items that they make. Don't feed it, manage without the items. In the meantime, jump into the t2 shard dropper runs when you have chance. They are not a big time commitment so don't pose any problems for folks like me that get called away a lot, and once you work out the tactic for the grim, they are easy. The chance at a rime is very slim, but if you're like me, I'd rather work for a year for one of them, than buy them for zero effort and feed this monster.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Jun 20 2019 at 02:31 AM.
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  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    I understand that all want the golden crafted.
    But I don’t see a different between food and the fragments.
    For food I've to craft or buy it same for the fragments/rime i've to raid or buy it.
    Crafting and raiding are to aspects of the game and either I do it or I've to live with the consequences.

    And to the prices 30 g for a Stack which Ibuy twice or even often per month is around 100 g per month for one Stack, I've to buy two more Stacks food, Token and two scrolls and this would only be the basic consumeables. So I would end with around 450 g per month. Amd this over six month so we're at 2.4k g. Which is the total price of the rimes you need for the relics for one character.
    The only difference is rimes are a big one time investment while buying consumeables is splitted.

    And as said often enough I've nothing against an alternative but it shouldn't be nearree 250 woodmen token would be fair. Max 10 minutes for 9 tokens.
    Mukor, I am sure you are a nice person but trying to read through the typos in your posts has given me a headache. I say that with love in my heart I hope that SSG is paying close attention. Mukor has set the price! I am sure each individual in the game will agree with you. We love to do the same quests over and over and over in order to get something that traditionally has not been a grind to obtain. Let's add more grind to the game since we don't have enough with embers, essences and LI's.

    I hate to be negative and want to say that I love LOTRO and continue to play in spite of the grind but I think people have a limit and attention should be paid when the player base speaks out about something they see as a detriment to the game.

    BTW, if you will let me know what server you are on and the name of one of your characters, I will send you several stacks of food.

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Mukor, the argument that a consumable food is on par with a t2 raiding drop is moot, and trying to force the point is just making you look ever so slightly elitist and supporting SSG's push to store model. Find a fairer comparison and you'll have a valid, but more to the point, respected argument.



    Rimes on EN - lowest AH price yesterday was 2000G, highest was 3200G.

    And this is exactly how it's designed and it's exactly what SSG forecast the prices to be. They knew raiders would power boost the price, and they allowed them to stockpile beforehand to ensure there would be enough of them for sale, after the raiders used what they need for their own relics and whatnot. This is how they get players to dip into the store to purchase stuff to sell, to make enough gold to buy the item in game.

    And this is the bit that pulls Mukor's argument flat to the floor. Nobody, bar none, ever needs to reach to the store to buy items to sell, in order to be able to afford some food. Mukor (and SSG) both know this, but he's hoping you'll fall for the argument.

    When you settle down and understand - this is the design, and its deliberate, you'll move on and forget about the rimes and the items that they make. Don't feed it, manage without the items. In the meantime, jump into the t2 shard dropper runs when you have chance. They are not a big time commitment so don't pose any problems for folks like me that get called away a lot, and once you work out the tactic for the grim, they are easy. The chance at a rime is very slim, but if you're like me, I'd rather work for a year for one of them, than buy them for zero effort and feed this monster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kynlee View Post
    Mukor, I am sure you are a nice person but trying to read through the typos in your posts has given me a headache. I say that with love in my heart I hope that SSG is paying close attention. Mukor has set the price! I am sure each individual in the game will agree with you. We love to do the same quests over and over and over in order to get something that traditionally has not been a grind to obtain. Let's add more grind to the game since we don't have enough with embers, essences and LI's.

    I hate to be negative and want to say that I love LOTRO and continue to play in spite of the grind but I think people have a limit and attention should be paid when the player base speaks out about something they see as a detriment to the game.

    BTW, if you will let me know what server you are on and the name of one of your characters, I will send you several stacks of food.
    Well I exaggerate a bit but the main point stays of the ingame economy should work we need a Cashflow in both directions.
    And the prices are to high 300 g would be fair mx 700 g.
    And it stays if I don’t craft, I've no access to the items. The, would be the same way locked for as the rimes atm are for you.
    And Yeah I know Starting crafting is easier but it doesn't need less time. Collecting materials and level the Collecting and crafting job to Ironfold need a lot of time too. Around the same time you need to gear and improve the knowledge of your 120s class. The only small advantage is that I can do it allways and don’t need 2-11 others to play the group content to train the theory.

    @Kynlee Well the Name of one you can read but there is no need to send something mean while if got a few crafters to reduce the money I need to spend.

    And I can ensure when I found the last rimes I need I will start droping the prices if there wouldn't be another option until than.
    As explained this high isn't the droprate.
    I must only think what's more important too me best offhand etc for each 120 for the next few month or Gold as start money for the next level up.

    And if I may ask what excactly hinders you to raid/group. Champs beside (which are much harder to play to be competetive but could be really good too sadly the most aren't ) it's really easy to find a pug. Personally I work shift and I find the time to raid. If you're not strongly disabled which I don't hope or are epileptic. There is no reason don't give it a try maybe you will like it.

  8. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    This thread was not about the crafted relics.
    I had two reasons to comment on relics. First reason was that relics were repeatedly mentioned in this thread. And I was trying to bright up the subject by saying that out of 4 relics, 3 are easily obtainable by everyone.

    Second reason was that your comment was lost on me, hence I commented on what I can. To explain, you said (quoting): "It is going to make crafting my weapons for my friend's guardian near impossible because neither of us can raid." And I could only but wonder what weapons for your guardian friend, because your friend should have either one hand legendary weapon or two hand legendary weapon (or both), which has nothing to do with Rimes or Artifacts. So I failed to understand your concerns and commented on what I can relate to. If you were referring to shield, there are quite a few versions of a shield...

    Somewhere down on this thread you were also mentioning Dwarrowgleam Shard, Dwarf-iron Fragment and Dwarrowmark as a raid items. They are not raid items. Shards can drop in raid but can be obtain in other ways, I got most of my shards by farming crafting mats actually. Other two items I never saw dropping in a raid. Not saying it is impossible, just that I never saw them drop there, and they are also obtainable in other ways.

    But, I am completely sided with crafters on this one. I too wish that crafters got better recipes that doesn't require raid drop, specifically Rime of Anvil. I hope that our concerns will be heard and we soon see better days. Overwhelmingly much better recipes this time around are barred behind a very specific raid drop, which shouldn't be the case. For me, I do not even think in a realm of needed or not needed for someone who doesn't raid. Historically, so to say, crafting was kept relevant by having always few special items, made from common mats, and desirable by everyone. And it should stay that way.

    As Kynlee mentioned, we heard often us and them, community being divided yet again over something. I couldn't agree more, I also hate it. We are in the same ship and we need to stick together and support each others.

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirhaen View Post
    I had two reasons to comment on relics. First reason was that relics were repeatedly mentioned in this thread. And I was trying to bright up the subject by saying that out of 4 relics, 3 are easily obtainable by everyone.

    Second reason was that your comment was lost on me, hence I commented on what I can. To explain, you said (quoting): "It is going to make crafting my weapons for my friend's guardian near impossible because neither of us can raid." And I could only but wonder what weapons for your guardian friend, because your friend should have either one hand legendary weapon or two hand legendary weapon (or both), which has nothing to do with Rimes or Artifacts. So I failed to understand your concerns and commented on what I can relate to. If you were referring to shield, there are quite a few versions of a shield...

    Somewhere down on this thread you were also mentioning Dwarrowgleam Shard, Dwarf-iron Fragment and Dwarrowmark as a raid items. They are not raid items. Shards can drop in raid but can be obtain in other ways, I got most of my shards by farming crafting mats actually. Other two items I never saw dropping in a raid. Not saying it is impossible, just that I never saw them drop there, and they are also obtainable in other ways.

    But, I am completely sided with crafters on this one. I too wish that crafters got better recipes that doesn't require raid drop, specifically Rime of Anvil. I hope that our concerns will be heard and we soon see better days. Overwhelmingly much better recipes this time around are barred behind a very specific raid drop, which shouldn't be the case. For me, I do not even think in a realm of needed or not needed for someone who doesn't raid. Historically, so to say, crafting was kept relevant by having always few special items, made from common mats, and desirable by everyone. And it should stay that way.

    As Kynlee mentioned, we heard often us and them, community being divided yet again over something. I couldn't agree more, I also hate it. We are in the same ship and we need to stick together and support each others.
    The question is why should be gear avaible without levelup without raiding which is better as raid gear, crafted gear which needs raidcomponents.
    I understand the disapointment that this latest update nearly didn´t add recipes without raidcomponents. But you can still craft all the gear raiders with which started on 120 and do your way up.
    This time there is no shortcut atm and in my eyes it isn´t neccessary (well easy speak as a raider).
    And which pissed my of at the most is the topic, which want to remove the option. like I can´t get it now so nobody should.
    And for shields the 176 itemlevelshields which you can barter in skarhald aren´t this much weaker as the raiditemcrafted ones (both). to the first around 3% to the second 6%

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    The question is why should be gear avaible without levelup without raiding which is better as raid gear, crafted gear which needs raidcomponents.
    I understand the disapointment that this latest update nearly didn´t add recipes without raidcomponents. But you can still craft all the gear raiders with which started on 120 and do your way up.
    This time there is no shortcut atm and in my eyes it isn´t neccessary (well easy speak as a raider).
    And which pissed my of at the most is the topic, which want to remove the option. like I can´t get it now so nobody should.
    And for shields the 176 itemlevelshields which you can barter in skarhald aren´t this much weaker as the raiditemcrafted ones (both). to the first around 3% to the second 6%
    No, the question is "why should raid gear be better then gear obtained in other ways". Nothing makes raids special, it's one play style choice.
    .

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  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    No, the question is "why should raid gear be better then gear obtained in other ways". Nothing makes raids special, it's one play style choice.
    Raiding become able to raid take more time as everything else in the game.
    In addition the items are harder to get you need 12 good players which can work together, everyone need to pay attention of himself the others and the mechanics.
    So everything else except pvp maybe which is dead at is redicolous compared to raiding.
    So the hardest most time consuming part of the game should give the best rewards.
    And again I've got nothing vs alternatives of they would need at least a bit of the time raiders spend or which need a bit of skill.
    250 woodmen Token would be fine.
    Or a solo instance with t1 3 men difficulty too.
    Both is easy and can be achieved by everyone. But I' m totally against alternatives which grant this items for nearly nothing.
    It's a principle if I want something I've to work for it.
    Or another option 2
    350 tp for a fragment. Will cost anybody no time.

  12. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    The question is why should be gear avaible without levelup without raiding which is better as raid gear, crafted gear which needs raidcomponents.
    Sorry I'm not sure that I understood... No one is asking for a crafted gear to be better than a raiding gear, if that's what you saying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    I understand the disapointment that this latest update nearly didn´t add recipes without raidcomponents. But you can still craft all the gear raiders with which started on 120 and do your way up.
    I do not know any raider that started with a crafting gear. We started with the barter gear from boxes, upgrading through 3 and 6 man instances, and then went into raid. I think that already says something about the state of crafting and recipes. Thought barter gear from boxes was and is available to everyone, still literally everything was better than crafted items.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    This time there is no shortcut atm and in my eyes it isn´t neccessary (well easy speak as a raider).
    Yes there was no shortcut in a sense that lootboxes had lesser gear this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    And which pissed my of at the most is the topic, which want to remove the option. like I can´t get it now so nobody should.
    And for shields the 176 itemlevelshields which you can barter in skarhald aren´t this much weaker as the raiditemcrafted ones (both). to the first around 3% to the second 6%
    I think, from what I read, most don't want it to be removed, but just to have another way to obtain Artifacts, or more useful and better recipes for people that may not raid but would like to have some nice items. Why not? We had that before. Look, in raid we get raid gear with set bonuses, there is also jewellery with set bonuses, and off hands and housing items and emotes that can't be obtained in any other way. All of it is bound. I mean, that is plenty. And yes, we work for it. Other people, through different type of work/efforts, in this particular discussion through crafting, also deserve to have something nice and relevant, made with common, landscape obtainable mats. As things stand at the moment, they have nothing for selling, nor for gearing really, as they would be better off with the barter gear. Yet they enjoy crafting, or at least put an effort to level crafting, but got nothing for it.

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirhaen View Post
    Sorry I'm not sure that I understood... No one is asking for a crafted gear to be better than a raiding gear, if that's what you saying.




    I do not know any raider that started with a crafting gear. We started with the barter gear from boxes, upgrading through 3 and 6 man instances, and then went into raid. I think that already says something about the state of crafting and recipes. Thought barter gear from boxes was and is available to everyone, still literally everything was better than crafted items.




    Yes there was no shortcut in a sense that lootboxes had lesser gear this time around.



    I think, from what I read, most don't want it to be removed, but just to have another way to obtain Artifacts, or more useful and better recipes for people that may not raid but would like to have some nice items. Why not? We had that before. Look, in raid we get raid gear with set bonuses, there is also jewellery with set bonuses, and off hands and housing items and emotes that can't be obtained in any other way. All of it is bound. I mean, that is plenty. And yes, we work for it. Other people, through different type of work/efforts, in this particular discussion through crafting, also deserve to have something nice and relevant, made with common, landscape obtainable mats. As things stand at the moment, they have nothing for selling, nor for gearing really, as they would be better off with the barter gear. Yet they enjoy crafting, or at least put an effort to level crafting, but got nothing for it.
    1. If the fragments get avaiable without trading rimes offhands etc would be better as the offhands etc from raid/crafted with rimes.
    2. Depends on what you did before if you're a new ie you Start with crafted, grind embers gear up/group gear up, stat with anvil t1 or t2 until you got your set, do t3. If you raided the last content, Well you skip the crafted gear.
    And as I said often enough I'm not totally against other options but they shouldn't be nearly for free. They should cost some investment either in skill or of time.

    From both I would prefer skill. This would improve the skill level of the community and maybe more starts with raiding who h would avoid such a problem in the next update.
    If you catch the raiding train and stay on it you won't have problems to raid/ group and collect in the future.

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    1. If the fragments get avaiable without trading rimes offhands etc would be better as the offhands etc from raid/crafted with rimes.
    2. Depends on what you did before if you're a new ie you Start with crafted, grind embers gear up/group gear up, stat with anvil t1 or t2 until you got your set, do t3. If you raided the last content, Well you skip the crafted gear.
    And as I said often enough I'm not totally against other options but they shouldn't be nearly for free. They should cost some investment either in skill or of time.

    From both I would prefer skill. This would improve the skill level of the community and maybe more starts with raiding who h would avoid such a problem in the next update.
    If you catch the raiding train and stay on it you won't have problems to raid/ group and collect in the future.
    Mukor. You're going to have to get this ok. SSG are also going to have to get it. Not all players want to raid. It's not always about them not being able to raid, because they may be extremely capable, it's about them not wanting to. The skill level of the community will take care of itself without trying to force people into certain play styles. How would you feel if SSG removed the ability to buy all consumables and other crafted items in the game in order to get you at a crafting bench? Not good is my bet, and we'd see that here in the forum for sure. How would you then feel if all the crafters opposed you, saying, it's good for you to craft, because once you jump on the crafting train, you will never have problems getting foods etc in the future? All the raiding folk that do not craft would be up in arms at the prospect, even though it would dramatically improve the crafting level of the community . . . and rightly so. Some people don't like crafting - and that's ok. It should also be ok, that some people don't like grouping up for a raid. People who want to try raiding, will do so, without all the shoving into a corner and driving them down a bottleneck. In fact, that tactic is more likely to stop them trying as people going for new things, tend to tread slowly and don't appreciate being thrown in. Those that do not want to raid - for whatever reason, will just leave. I've already left, and I'm back on Anor for most part now, especially as I've finally got my name, Arnenna on that server after a long wait for a naming fix. Auburn is no more. The main servers hold little to no interest for me now, because of stuff just like this, and I love to raid when I can commit the time, so I can only imagine how nasty this all feels to people that do not want to raid. I don't want your raid sets or set bonuses, your offhands, shields, housing items, trophies, pets, rimes or whatever else you can get in the raid. If I ever want those, I'll go get them. I just want to be able to put to proper use the crafting - that I take just as much pride in, as you do your raiding skill, - to make a decent relic, that is not below par of a relic that is 4 years old that I crafted at level 95. I don't think that's asking for the earth.

    p.s. The OP has withdrawn his request to remove trade of rimes for artefacts, here in the thread. So no need to feel all put out over that anymore.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Jun 20 2019 at 09:37 PM.
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  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Mukor. You're going to have to get this ok. SSG are also going to have to get it. Not all players want to raid. It's not always about them not being able to raid, because they may be extremely capable, it's about them not wanting to. The skill level of the community will take care of itself without trying to force people into certain play styles. How would you feel if SSG removed the ability to buy all consumables and other crafted items in the game in order to get you at a crafting bench? Not good is my bet, and we'd see that here in the forum for sure. How would you then feel if all the crafters opposed you, saying, it's good for you to craft, because once you jump on the crafting train, you will never have problems getting foods etc in the future? All the raiding folk that do not craft would be up in arms at the prospect that the change would improve the crafting level of the community . . . and rightly so. Some people don't like crafting - and that's ok. It should also be ok, that some people don't like grouping up for a raid. People who want to try raiding, will do so, without all the shoving into a corner and driving them down a bottleneck. Those that do not want to raid - for whatever reason, will just leave. I've already left, and I'm back on Anor for most part now, especially as I've finally got my name, Arnenna on that server after a long wait for a naming fix. Auburn is no more. The main servers hold little to no interest for me now, because of stuff just like this, and I love to raid when I can commit the time, so I can only imagine how nasty this all feels to people that do not want to raid. I don't want your raid sets or set bonuses, your offhands, shields, housing items, trophies, pets, rimes or whatever else you can get in the raid. I just want to be able to put to proper use the crafting that I take take just as much pride in, as you do your raiding skill, and make a decent relic with it. I don't think that's asking for the earth.
    I know not all want to raid and this update is a #### for crafters.
    But cause of this you want the raiding items. Or as some of you said too a weaker Version without fragments at least those who just want the crafted relics. But how much weaker would be ok for you 50%,30%.
    And what I don’t understand how it looks like why some of you won't invest something if you get an alternativem
    But I'm still for the skill needing alternative for two reasons.
    1. Some will get access to raids cause they become better amdmaybe they start to enjoy it.
    2. The skill level of the whole community will increase if they start to raid or not. But at least landscape difficulty could get increased.

    And for the focing to craft at least on Bele the community did it indirectly to force my to cook. They didn't sell anorien stat food anymore which is still the best for tanks.
    This would be a good suggestion for crafting vita only food 2k or 1k vita and 1k fate. But this is offtopic.

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    I know not all want to raid and this update is a #### for crafters.
    But cause of this you want the raiding items. Or as some of you said too a weaker Version without fragments at least those who just want the crafted relics. But how much weaker would be ok for you 50%,30%.
    And what I don’t understand how it looks like why some of you won't invest something if you get an alternativem
    But I'm still for the skill needing alternative for two reasons.
    1. Some will get access to raids cause they become better amdmaybe they start to enjoy it.
    2. The skill level of the whole community will increase if they start to raid or not. But at least landscape difficulty could get increased.

    And for the focing to craft at least on Bele the community did it indirectly to force my to cook. They didn't sell anorien stat food anymore which is still the best for tanks.
    This would be a good suggestion for crafting vita only food 2k or 1k vita and 1k fate. But this is offtopic.
    Hmm, ok, you must have misread a post of mine somewhere regarding the relic. Perhaps you read a post where I was backing up crafters by saying some lesser gear recipes that do not involve rimes for them, would be good.

    On the relic though . . . how to put this for you. I do not want it weaker. I want it out of the raid and firmly in the crafting panel, where it always should have been. I can't make that any clearer. I don't care if they decide to put another one in the raid - even if it's twenty times stronger, but the Gold relic should be a "crafters" thing. It always was, and it always should be. Sure, stick a nice shinier one inside the raid for raiders to play with, nobody will care about that. This isn't about "stuff" Mukor, it's about principle.

    One of the games selling points for many was crafting. They start at low level, and work up all the way to the benefits, the main one being, they get to craft a great relic for their LI. If you don''t craft, then you can't get one. Crafters can make you a blue one or a purple one, but the gold, they can only make that for themselves, they can't even make them for other alts on their account. Crafting = Sold. Something worth the work put in.

    Then all of a sudden, that is taken away. Not only do they lose the sole benefit of that crafting, they cant even make a prestigious relic anymore.

    Now, ask yourself this. Raiding is sold as the mother of all end game. You need skill to get to it and the rewards are always something special, just for the people that do the raid. How would you feel, if on the next update, that something special was not available to you, that it had been moved, to somewhere else in the game, to an activity that you do not enjoy?

    I'll answer it for you. You'd hate it. I'll go one further - Flower picking. That is your reminder. Do you remember it? I remember it. I remember the forums, I remember the fits of anger, I remember people leaving the game. Now though, all of a sudden, that it's being dished on another playstyle, it's ok?
    Last edited by Arnenna; Jun 20 2019 at 09:58 PM.
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  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Hmm, ok, you must have misread a post of mine somewhere regarding the relic. Perhaps you read a post where I was backing up crafters by saying some lesser gear recipes that do not involve rimes for them, would be good.

    On the relic though . . . how to put this for you. I do not want it weaker. I want it out of the raid and firmly in the crafting panel, where it always should have been. I can't make that any clearer. I don't care if they decide to put another one in the raid - even if it's twenty times stronger, but the Gold relic should be a "crafters" thing. It always was, and it always should be. Sure, stick a nice shinier one inside the raiders to play with, nobody will care about that. This isn't about "stuff" Mukor, it's about principle.
    You've allways had to run instances for one of the materials.
    I've got nothing against su h a soloinstance but it shouldn't be to easy.
    At least in the old times the instnace wasn't faceroll easy.
    A one boss instance in which we can kill dayly an (arch) nemensis would be fine or a elitemaster with elite adds.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    You've allways had to run instances for one of the materials.
    I've got nothing against su h a soloinstance but it shouldn't be to easy.
    At least in the old times the instnace wasn't faceroll easy.
    A one boss instance in which we can kill dayly an (arch) nemensis would be fine or a elitemaster with elite adds.
    Ermmm, no, crafters have never had to run instances to craft a relic. Not sure where you're getting that info from, unless you're talking about resource instances. They are not t2 raids Mukor and you well know it. You're still missing the point, the principle behind the argument. You still think this is about earning a rime. It isn't. The "Crafted" relic shouldn't call for a rime, it should call for guild expertise - as it always has. The benefit that arrives from that expertise, is why crafters craft (or did, I doubt they will anymore after this, I've abandoned it and will never take a crafter beyond westenmnet level again, if even that). Relics in connection with raids, should be BtA drops, inside the raid, or raid barter. Simple.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Jun 20 2019 at 10:20 PM.
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  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Ermmm, no, crafters have never had to run instances to craft a relic. Not sure where you're getting that info from, unless you're talking about resource instances. They are not t2 raids Mukor and you well know it. You're still missing the point, the principle behind the argument. You still think this is about earning a rime. It isn't. The "Crafted" relic shouldn't call for a rime, it should call for guild expertise - as it always has. The benefit that arrives from that expertise, is why crafters craft (or did, I doubt they will anymore after this, I've abandoned it and will never take a crafter beyond westenmnet level again, if even that). Relics in connection with raids, should be BtA drops, inside the raid, or raid barter. Simple.
    In the old days you've to run soloinstances for compendium which you needed for the Golden crafted relics.
    And yeah crafting guilds are dead since westemnet you can see it cause there never was a new reputation level for the next tier.
    And all you needed the guild for were the crafted relics. And the system with the bound relics were never fair between the different jobs.

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    In the old days you've to run soloinstances for compendium which you needed for the Golden crafted relics.
    And yeah crafting guilds are dead since westemnet you can see it cause there never was a new reputation level for the next tier.
    And all you needed the guild for were the crafted relics. And the system with the bound relics were never fair between the different jobs.
    They are resource instances Mukor, and we can still run them. They are, and were not in any shape hard to do. Death from Below was the only one with any sort of challenge connected to it, and that's still a million miles from a t2 raid. You have no valid argument down that vein.

    Yes, all we needed guild for was . . . Crafted Relics.

    That's the whole point. That is why crafters - crafted. Now that has been taken away from them. Why do raiders raid? Would it be good to have that taken away from them?

    So you think that the bound relic wasn't fair between different jobs? So you think that a non guilded crafting player should be able to get them? What happened to "If you don't play all of the game, then you've got to miss out on some of the stuff"? So, by that same token then, it's more fair if non raiders can get everything that raiders get? That's a two way street Mukor, if you're going to insist that raiders get their items because . . . they raid, then you'll have to stick with crafters getting their stuff because . . . they guild. Gosh, you don't want much do you ? Maybe we should rally together for hobninigan tokens in the raid, because you don't want to do that, or festival tokens. You now come across exactly like one of the more casual players that you have a go at, for wanting raid items without raiding. You want guild items without guild crafting. Same deal. Actually . . . worse deal, because you want guild items without guild crafting, while "removing" that process from everyone who did the guild crafting.

    SSG, is this why crafted relics have been pushed over to the realm of t2 raiding? Because some (not all, because I've never seen this before) raiders thought it unfair they couldn't get crafted relics because they decided not to guild craft?
    Last edited by Arnenna; Jun 21 2019 at 02:30 AM.
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  21. #146
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    The gold crafted relic should be at the crafting panel only.
    No raid component should ever be required for it. Only max guilded chars should have the power to craft it.
    And that's the end of the story.

    On a personal note now, i HATE crafting. Its the worst aspect of the game for me. I prefer to kill 2000 slugs in the shire, than craft even the easiest item.
    I prefer to pay 2000g for an item, than craft it myself and save over half the money.
    It's something i dont enjoy at all, although i have my 2 mains max guilded only for that 'special' relic. Did i enjoy the process? NO, but on the other hand the relic felt like something special because of the effort i putted in.

    Long story short. This has always been a crafting item and should stay where it belongs. To the crafting panel for the dedicated crafters of the game.
    Thorgull lvl 105 Champion - Malendar lvl 115 Warden - Estelldion lvl 101 LoreMaster - Ballduin lvl 36 Runekeeper - Nharduil lvl 17 Minstrel All on Evernight

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  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    They are resource instances Mukor, and we can still run them. They are, and were not in any shape hard to do. Death from Below was the only one with any sort of challenge connected to it, and that's still a million miles from a t2 raid. You have no valid argument down that vein.

    Yes, all we needed guild for was . . . Crafted Relics.

    That's the whole point. That is why crafters - crafted. Now that has been taken away from them. Why do raiders raid? Would it be good to have that taken away from them?

    So you think that the bound relic wasn't fair between different jobs? So you think that a non guilded crafting player should be able to get them? What happened to "If you don't play all of the game, then you've got to miss out on some of the stuff"? So, by that same token then, it's more fair if non raiders can get everything that raiders get? That's a two way street Mukor, if you're going to insist that raiders get their items because . . . they raid, then you'll have to stick with crafters getting their stuff because . . . they guild. Gosh, you don't want much do you ? Maybe we should rally together for hobninigan tokens in the raid, because you don't want to do that, or festival tokens. You now come across exactly like one of the more casual players that you have a go at, for wanting raid items without raiding. You want guild items without guild crafting. Same deal. Actually . . . worse deal, because you want guild items without guild crafting, while "removing" that process from everyone who did the guild crafting.

    SSG, is this why crafted relics have been pushed over to the realm of t2 raiding? Because some (not all, because I've never seen this before) raiders thought it unfair they couldn't get crafted relics because they decided not to guild craft?
    Galtrev the last crafted relics weren't an Ressource instance, you needed to defend Galtrev. And for that you needed at least to know we're the enemies spawn to kill them fast enough before they destroyed a house and you failed.
    And with not fair between the jobs, I wanted to say that a cook has much more work to do as a scholar for example. So this golden items should be at least only bound to account.
    At last why the hack you guys want allways everything for nearly nothing. To do a something for an item fellsuch better as get it gived.

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kostas2112 View Post
    The gold crafted relic should be at the crafting panel only.
    No raid component should ever be required for it. Only max guilded chars should have the power to craft it.
    And that's the end of the story.

    On a personal note now, i HATE crafting. Its the worst aspect of the game for me. I prefer to kill 2000 slugs in the shire, than craft even the easiest item.
    I prefer to pay 2000g for an item, than craft it myself and save over half the money.
    It's something i dont enjoy at all, although i have my 2 mains max guilded only for that 'special' relic. Did i enjoy the process? NO, but on the other hand the relic felt like something special because of the effort i putted in.

    Long story short. This has always been a crafting item and should stay where it belongs. To the crafting panel for the dedicated crafters of the game.
    And guild rank stopped a long time ago so maxed rep isn't worth anything nowadays.

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    Galtrev the last crafted relics weren't an Ressource instance, you needed to defend Galtrev. And for that you needed at least to know we're the enemies spawn to kill them fast enough before they destroyed a house and you failed.
    And with not fair between the jobs, I wanted to say that a cook has much more work to do as a scholar for example. So this golden items should be at least only bound to account.
    At last why the hack you guys want allways everything for nearly nothing. To do a something for an item fellsuch better as get it gived.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    And guild rank stopped a long time ago so maxed rep isn't worth anything nowadays.
    Don't play dumb cause you're not...

    You just don't want to get it. Simple as that.
    Thorgull lvl 105 Champion - Malendar lvl 115 Warden - Estelldion lvl 101 LoreMaster - Ballduin lvl 36 Runekeeper - Nharduil lvl 17 Minstrel All on Evernight

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  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kostas2112 View Post
    Don't play dumb cause you're not...

    You just don't want to get it. Simple as that.
    And you guys should have realized that crafting guilds are dead.

    Even if we get ironfold guild reputation this would be around 500k rep.
    And I doupt that you guys crafted repitems the last years and filled all your inventory, bank etc just for the hope that there will be one day that you can use it.

    But maybe we should add both, you need guldrep and the items off the raid and the crafted relics unbound
    It´s one game either you do all aspects or you miss some or you make a deal, giving 6 fragments to a crafter he build one for him and one for you.

    Then we would be a society with craftemen (townsfolk) and warriors both fractions need the other to survive.

 

 
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