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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Funk View Post
    Hephburz-2's math clearly shows where this is heading even if they add in some VXP rewards in FI challenges, some dailies and some festival wrappers.
    I would just like to point out, the purpose of my math was to actually direct this conversation in a different direction although that appears to have been overlooked.

    I pointed out that, in the most recent BR#2 build we had, I was receiving around 600-700k VXP from an unknown source otherwise there is no explanation as to why my virtue ranks were as high as they were. I should have had no more than around 600k VXP accounting for all deeds and including storepurchases. But for some reason I had close to 1.35milllion VXP.

    This means a number of things;

    - First and foremost we do not understand the inner workings of this new virtue system and how their ranks are calculated from our current ranks - suggesting that we are gaining virtue xp from multiple more sources than just the current existing virtue deeds.

    - We have been told from Cordovan's live stream, that not all current sources of VXP have been hooked up. Which to me means, there are other potentially previously completed quests/content/deeds that they are changing to reward VXP and hasn't yet been showing in the new system. Which could either mean this is where the unknown source of VXP is coming from OR it means we can expect our current amounts of VXP on bullroarer to increase when the next build comes around.

    - We have been told that we will be getting multiple sources of ways to acquire VXP and no, before people go into speculation we have no 'official numbers' just things said in passing on the livestream at most. Festival quests to award VXP will appease a lot of casual players and daily quests to award VXP will appease the majority of end-game players, especially because you're going to be doing the dailies anyway for embers or shards, so they're just adding even more incentive to do this.

    --

    I also cannot seriously believe that you will expect people to go to the store in swathes to max out their virtues when this new system goes live, especially given how much you are projecting that it will cost. Something else that I'd like to point out is that it seems you get your current virtue worth in the new system. If you have a virtue at rank 20 that awards X value of stat, under the new system it will continue to award the same, if not higher amount of stats albeit perhaps changed about which stats it offers, but in terms of actual numbers you lose nothing.

    Furthermore, on top of everything else including the new incoming crafted relics, tier 3 essences, and yet another round of new craftable off-hands/shields/crossbows, there is only one constant. End-game players are already overcapped on every stat that matters to their class/role. Everything they are introducing will not change our characters one iota except perhaps giving them overly inflated levels of morale (Something I was under the impression we were supposed to have moved away from). This virtue system will not be 'necessary' in any respect in my opinion, of course it will appeal to the min/maxers but it is not required nor is it necessary.

    --

    It's also a long-term goal to work towards and means it's something they won't have to change for a longtime considering people shouldn't be maxed on everything overnight. Which is good. I'm sorry but if you were expecting a new virtue system where you would already be maxed on everything because you are maxed under the current system, then you have all been extremely naiive, what would be the point of them implementing it in the first place. There is no loss of stat between your virtue ranks being converted from the old to the new system, there is only room to gain. IF YOU WANTED TO.

    --

    I will not argue or get into dicussion about their motives, their business plan or any of the other articles you linked trying to get forum posters to bite. You are unhappy with the direction the game is headed we get it.

    All I can say is this. After Mordor - I expected nothing when they released Ered Mithrin, I expected another bad update, bad instance cluster and sole reliance on lootboxes and keys that could no longer be acquired in game. How wrong I was. I cannot even begin to say how Alt-friendly this update has been in terms of the Embers currency, the more alts, the more free weekly embers, the quicker you can gear your characters. The raid and instance cluster, after their several revamps and in their current state, are some really good instances, despite how quickly they were cleared, I and many others had fun running and completing them, and still do, weekly. Yes, ok, we've had two LI level cap increases since this update began, its an annoyance, sure, but at this point we're just beating a dead horse.

    Overall Ered Mithrin has been so much better than Mordor, and I look forward the new virtue system, the vales of anduin, the 64 bit client and everything else that U24 entails.

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    - First and foremost we do not understand the inner workings of this new virtue system and how their ranks are calculated from our current ranks - suggesting that we are gaining virtue xp from multiple more sources than just the current existing virtue deeds..
    Folks have been saying that maxed virtues are getting, what, 54-56 ranks on BR? When they were maybe 27 or 28 (capped at 20) on live? We're speculating, but it could be that
    BR rank = 2 x Live rank
    with no vxp calculation at all.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moln View Post
    Folks have been saying that maxed virtues are getting, what, 54-56 ranks on BR? When they were maybe 27 or 28 (capped at 20) on live? We're speculating, but it could be that
    BR rank = 2 x Live rank
    with no vxp calculation at all.
    We've highlighted only that copied completionists are getting much higher ranks of their virtues than can be explained by the earning/cost of virtue points in the new system.

    This would suggest 20/34 would get you a 60/60 rank in U24. But earning 34 1000 VXP from these old deeds would give you a rank of 30/60 if only levelled under the new system. But this isn't even half way because from then on the costs are 1300 stepping up to 1400 and 1500.

    So why under half way? Because now each completed virtue deed is 1/60th of a max rank as opposed to 1/34th. But it's actually 1/75th as 75 1000 VXP is the new max rank cost.

    If you consider the amount of virtue deeds in the game right now you'd have to at the least double it to even be in the ball park of matching what completionists are getting on BR#2

    No one wants their name on this so we have Cord do his thing. Nothing to see here...
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  4. #79
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    Beta Client updating
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    I would just like to point out, the purpose of my math was to actually direct this conversation in a different direction although that appears to have been overlooked.

    I pointed out that, in the most recent BR#2 build we had, I was receiving around 600-700k VXP from an unknown source otherwise there is no explanation as to why my virtue ranks were as high as they were. I should have had no more than around 600k VXP accounting for all deeds and including storepurchases. But for some reason I had close to 1.35milllion VXP.

    This means a number of things;

    - First and foremost we do not understand the inner workings of this new virtue system and how their ranks are calculated from our current ranks - suggesting that we are gaining virtue xp from multiple more sources than just the current existing virtue deeds.

    - We have been told from Cordovan's live stream, that not all current sources of VXP have been hooked up. Which to me means, there are other potentially previously completed quests/content/deeds that they are changing to reward VXP and hasn't yet been showing in the new system. Which could either mean this is where the unknown source of VXP is coming from OR it means we can expect our current amounts of VXP on bullroarer to increase when the next build comes around.

    - We have been told that we will be getting multiple sources of ways to acquire VXP and no, before people go into speculation we have no 'official numbers' just things said in passing on the livestream at most. Festival quests to award VXP will appease a lot of casual players and daily quests to award VXP will appease the majority of end-game players, especially because you're going to be doing the dailies anyway for embers or shards, so they're just adding even more incentive to do this.

    --

    I also cannot seriously believe that you will expect people to go to the store in swathes to max out their virtues when this new system goes live, especially given how much you are projecting that it will cost. Something else that I'd like to point out is that it seems you get your current virtue worth in the new system. If you have a virtue at rank 20 that awards X value of stat, under the new system it will continue to award the same, if not higher amount of stats albeit perhaps changed about which stats it offers, but in terms of actual numbers you lose nothing.

    Furthermore, on top of everything else including the new incoming crafted relics, tier 3 essences, and yet another round of new craftable off-hands/shields/crossbows, there is only one constant. End-game players are already overcapped on every stat that matters to their class/role. Everything they are introducing will not change our characters one iota except perhaps giving them overly inflated levels of morale (Something I was under the impression we were supposed to have moved away from). This virtue system will not be 'necessary' in any respect in my opinion, of course it will appeal to the min/maxers but it is not required nor is it necessary.

    --

    It's also a long-term goal to work towards and means it's something they won't have to change for a longtime considering people shouldn't be maxed on everything overnight. Which is good. I'm sorry but if you were expecting a new virtue system where you would already be maxed on everything because you are maxed under the current system, then you have all been extremely naiive, what would be the point of them implementing it in the first place. There is no loss of stat between your virtue ranks being converted from the old to the new system, there is only room to gain. IF YOU WANTED TO.

    --

    I will not argue or get into dicussion about their motives, their business plan or any of the other articles you linked trying to get forum posters to bite. You are unhappy with the direction the game is headed we get it.

    All I can say is this. After Mordor - I expected nothing when they released Ered Mithrin, I expected another bad update, bad instance cluster and sole reliance on lootboxes and keys that could no longer be acquired in game. How wrong I was. I cannot even begin to say how Alt-friendly this update has been in terms of the Embers currency, the more alts, the more free weekly embers, the quicker you can gear your characters. The raid and instance cluster, after their several revamps and in their current state, are some really good instances, despite how quickly they were cleared, I and many others had fun running and completing them, and still do, weekly. Yes, ok, we've had two LI level cap increases since this update began, its an annoyance, sure, but at this point we're just beating a dead horse.

    Overall Ered Mithrin has been so much better than Mordor, and I look forward the new virtue system, the vales of anduin, the 64 bit client and everything else that U24 entails.
    no matter how many ways we get to earn this exp it´s grind and we´ve to grind it.
    and if there´s no new gear with a huge statraise we will need this passive if t4 finally goes live. 6k morale is huge boost and tanks etc earn a big dmgboost from the 7k masteries too.
    This is only for the passive not to metion that we need 5 new virtues as the old ones we´ve. Which aren´t finished either.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moln View Post
    Folks have been saying that maxed virtues are getting, what, 54-56 ranks on BR? When they were maybe 27 or 28 (capped at 20) on live? We're speculating, but it could be that
    BR rank = 2 x Live rank
    with no vxp calculation at all.
    Well, whilst the 2x is a nice possible solution, also not true. as I've mentioned I have rank 34 zeal on one of my toons and that takes me to rank 58 under the new system only. Which if it was '2x' as suggested, it should be 60/60 and then some. But, yes, for whatever reason as you've mentioned completionists like myself are seeing much higher virtue ranks - which suggests there is a large unknown source of VXP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post
    We've highlighted only that copied completionists are getting much higher ranks of their virtues than can be explained by the earning/cost of virtue points in the new system.

    This would suggest 20/34 would get you a 60/60 rank in U24. But earning 34 1000 VXP from these old deeds would give you a rank of 30/60 if only levelled under the new system. But this isn't even half way because from then on the costs are 1300 stepping up to 1400 and 1500.

    So why under half way? Because now each completed virtue deed is 1/60th of a max rank as opposed to 1/34th. But it's actually 1/75th as 75 1000 VXP is the new max rank cost.

    If you consider the amount of virtue deeds in the game right now you'd have to at the least double it to even be in the ball park of matching what completionists are getting on BR#2

    No one wants their name on this so we have Cord do his thing. Nothing to see here...
    I do agree however that the new system is extremely unfriendly to new alts and new players. Who "appear to" (and notice I said only ''apear to'' given that this system is not yet finished and who knows where else we will gain vxp from) have a much larger work load infront of them to achieve the same result.

    On the face of it, it seems deeds/virtues completed now will be worth more under the new system than deeds completed after the revamp.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    no matter how many ways we get to earn this exp it´s grind and we´ve to grind it.
    and if there´s no new gear with a huge statraise we will need this passive if t4 finally goes live. 6k morale is huge boost and tanks etc earn a big dmgboost from the 7k masteries too.
    This is only for the passive not to metion that we need 5 new virtues as the old ones we´ve. Which aren´t finished either.
    Of course you have to grind it. Find me an MMO that doesn't have grind. And anyone who believes LOTRO is the grindiest MMO out there - please allow me to disabuse you of that delusion, there are far worse games.

    There is no incoming stat raise with U24, and since when have we ever had an expansion + level cap increase that HAS NOT included a new set of armour and jewellery. So. Ok.

    I don't see us getting Tier4-5-6 until the expansion release at the earliest. And no, 7k mastery is not going to help players who are already capped and overcapped on mastery. We have a hunter in our kin who is capable of getting 350k Critical Rating - unbuffed - whilst maintaining maxed mastery, and over 120k+ morale. Let that sink in. He is 125k critical raiting OVER the cap. How much worse do you think that's going to get with new crafted relics, t3 essences and the virtue revamp?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    Well, whilst the 2x is a nice possible solution, also not true. as I've mentioned I have rank 34 zeal on one of my toons and that takes me to rank 58 under the new system only. Which if it was '2x' as suggested, it should be 60/60 and then some. But, yes, for whatever reason as you've mentioned completionists like myself are seeing much higher virtue ranks - which suggests there is a large unknown source of VXP.



    I do agree however that the new system is extremely unfriendly to new alts and new players. Who "appear to" (and notice I said only ''apear to'' given that this system is not yet finished and who knows where else we will gain vxp from) have a much larger work load infront of them to achieve the same result.

    On the face of it, it seems deeds/virtues completed now will be worth more under the new system than deeds completed after the revamp.




    Of course you have to grind it. Find me an MMO that desn't have grind. And anyone who believes LOTRO is the grindiest MMO out there - please allow me to disabuse you of that delusion, there are far worse games.

    There is no incoming stat raise with U24, and since when have we ever had an expansion + level cap increase that HAS NOT included a new set of armour and jewellery. So. Ok.

    I don't see us getting Tier4-5-6 until the expansion release at the earliest. And no, 7k mastery is not going to help players who are already capped and overcapped on mastery. We have a hunter in our kin who is capable of getting 350k Critical Rating - unbuffed - whilst maintaining maxed mastery, and over 120k+ morale. Let that sink in. He is 125k critical raiting OVER the cap. How much worse do you think that's going to get with new crafted relics, t3 essences and the virtue revamp?
    Nö tank has capped masteries. For them alone it will around 10% more dmg which helps a raid a lot.
    I never talkzabout dpser but even they could spare a mastery essence and can overcap crit a bit more or spend something on their surv which helps the raid a lot too

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by The OP
    So, is everyone gonna ignore the fact that the new Virtue System is the Biggest Grind this game has ever seen?
    In a word, yes. (Even though virtues aren't "the biggest grind ever" but nice clickbait title nonetheless)

    At this point, the players who remain are more-or-less willing to cope with the already ridiculous LI grind so they have no qualms about virtues. In fact, they welcome the change because it's so long overdue, that the fact that there's now 60 virtue tiers just goes over their head. Players like that are just happy to grind anything, as long as something keeps them busy. Everyone else who didn't like the excessive grind to begin with and wasn't addicted to this game as if it was crack, has already left the game.

  9. #84
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We have been digging into the state of the Virtue system that was just on Bullroarer to help us parse out some of your feedback on the expected amount of work involved, and there were some sources of Virtue XP that weren't available on Bullroarer this time. Expect to see a better picture of this system, our intentions with it, and your intended use of it in the near future as this gets better polished.
    I love the fact that you guys are doing the necessary testing and incremental improvement on the system AND continuously communicating on the process!
    Landroval - The Council of the Secret Fire Friendly, Casual, Mature, and always seeking more!
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    I cannot even begin to say how Alt-friendly this update has been in terms of the Embers currency, the more alts, the more free weekly embers, the quicker you can gear your characters.
    I'd put it anorher way: Alt-reliant. Meaning if you don't have alts capable of doing Ember quests you're screwed.
    Kelewon, Brandywine

  11. #86
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    I suppose one good way to tell is by making a new character and completing Ered Luin as example. I went to do this but BR#2 was already down. Late as usual.
    'Ú-damdir.'
    Palenen - Elendilmir - The royal gem of Arnor - "May you 'Jingle Jangle' into the West."

  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by ENDrain View Post
    I'd put it anorher way: Alt-reliant. Meaning if you don't have alts capable of doing Ember quests you're screwed.
    I agree completely. Having 9 level 120 chars on brandywine just meant I could grind embers to first equip one main reasonably quickly. I am just now getting the last of the alts equipped after how many months? 9? It’s not much of a grind to get 25 long beards each week to keep working on it but each alt is only good for 30-50% of 1 piece per week.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog548 View Post
    I love the fact that you guys are doing the necessary testing and incremental improvement on the system AND continuously communicating on the process!
    You don't doing end game raid and instance if you say that. I guess.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    You don't doing end game raid and instance if you say that. I guess.
    As hard as it is to believe on the LOTRO Forums these days, I don't believe moon was being sarcastic. Pretty sure a bunch of players will be genuinely happy and thankful to see that the time spent in crunching these numbers due to the lack of substantial dev diaries over the previous few years.

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Hallandil View Post
    I don't believe moon was being sarcastic.
    Yes I fully understood. That's why i answered with ironic because this is fabulous to see such a blindness. But maybe i am wrong and SSG is going in the right direction about their beta testing program. Any here to trully believe in that ?

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    Yes I fully understood. That's why i answered with ironic because this is fabulous to see such a blindness. But maybe i am wrong and SSG is going in the right direction about their beta testing program. Any here to trully believe in that ?

    It seems some people's eyes glaze over when a bit of math(s) is involved. If you are doing any useful testing you have to be thorough and to show that you are, you have to show your processes, your workings out if you were. Cordovan has been given the job of communicating SSG's reply. Their suggestion is that it's not ready for testing with such vigour yet and that some additional means to gain virtue ranks is coming up. That will satisfy all the usual people who take what they are told at face value.

    Some? They mention festival and endgame dailies as the solution. But all our virtue earning deeds that we have now would not even get us to half way in the new system. Each deed we will do will get us less than half the progress of before. "Some" extra means won't be enough. "Many" might address it. But Only "Double, them some" will have the necessary amount available in game without a huge investment via the store.

    Cynics will perceive the inflated ranks given to the virtues we've already done as a device to hide this. Others will just assume that these levels are obtainable in game under the new system. If these inflated ranks were a mistake we'd have the dev/engineer hold their hands up and say so but it's from another pay grade entirely so it's Cordovan Job to step-in, ala Presidential Press Secretary.

    The "Biggest Grind" of the thread name is not wrong but it doesn't mention the huge LP cost that would be a requirement to get beyond the 30 rank in every virtue at the current cap of 120.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    You don't doing end game raid and instance if you say that. I guess.
    You are correct!

    But more relevant is the fact that I was talking about the subject of this thread, not the completely unrelated topic that you raise!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallandil View Post
    As hard as it is to believe on the LOTRO Forums these days, I don't believe moon was being sarcastic. Pretty sure a bunch of players will be genuinely happy and thankful to see that the time spent in crunching these numbers due to the lack of substantial dev diaries over the previous few years.
    This is also correct!

    I'm praising them for doing the thing that you (@Papou_sous_la_montagne) correctly point out doesn't seem to get done often enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    Yes I fully understood. That's why i answered with ironic because this is fabulous to see such a blindness. But maybe i am wrong and SSG is going in the right direction about their beta testing program. Any here to trully believe in that ?
    Not blindness, just focus, and a pragmatic optimism that knows positive feedback is all too rare.
    Landroval - The Council of the Secret Fire Friendly, Casual, Mature, and always seeking more!
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  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog548 View Post
    You are correct!

    But more relevant is the fact that I was talking about the subject of this thread, not the completely unrelated topic that you raise!
    This is relevant because you claim SSG did a good job about listen community about beta content but this is wrong. Last raid (and generally all new content on live server) has plenty of bug and player always gave their feedback during beta about this problems. But there is no change and we need massive patch number all the time.

    But like you said you don't doing raid. I am not surprised.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog548 View Post
    Not blindness, just focus, and a pragmatic optimism that knows positive feedback is all too rare.
    Yes you are blindness because you focus only on one thing and you forget (or don't know) about all others facts. I don't have a problem about positive feedback when it is justified but SSG has proved since long time there were not professional and did wrong things for their player many time. We have to demand the best for this game and we need always have a critical approach about everything.

    I hope you understood me. I am very disappointing to read comments like yours. This is not personal or harassment or hate speech.

  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post
    It seems some people's eyes glaze over when a bit of math(s) is involved. If you are doing any useful testing you have to be thorough and to show that you are, you have to show your processes, your workings out if you were. Cordovan has been given the job of communicating SSG's reply. Their suggestion is that it's not ready for testing with such vigour yet and that some additional means to gain virtue ranks is coming up. That will satisfy all the usual people who take what they are told at face value.

    Some? They mention festival and endgame dailies as the solution. But all our virtue earning deeds that we have now would not even get us to half way in the new system. Each deed we will do will get us less than half the progress of before. "Some" extra means won't be enough. "Many" might address it. But Only "Double, them some" will have the necessary amount available in game without a huge investment via the store.

    Cynics will perceive the inflated ranks given to the virtues we've already done as a device to hide this. Others will just assume that these levels are obtainable in game under the new system. If these inflated ranks were a mistake we'd have the dev/engineer hold their hands up and say so but it's from another pay grade entirely so it's Cordovan Job to step-in, ala Presidential Press Secretary.

    The "Biggest Grind" of the thread name is not wrong but it doesn't mention the huge LP cost that would be a requirement to get beyond the 30 rank in every virtue at the current cap of 120.
    I don't condemn virtue revamp atm. But I have some doubts about nature of this another new fresh update only developed and designed under ingame store’s perspective and farming. Remember loot box and what they did with older key/chest/unbound store item.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    This is relevant because you claim SSG did a good job about listen community about beta content but this is wrong.
    This comment is incorrect.

    I said they are doing a good job on the content currently under discussion, not ALL beta content EVER.

    I understand that we seem to be working from two different native languages here, but I said what I meant and you're deliberately misrepresenting it.

    I DO NOT AND HAVE NOT DISAGREED WITH YOUR COMPLAINTS ABOUT OTHER PROBLEMS IN DEVELOPMENT/TESTING.

    Yes you are blindness because you focus only on one thing and you forget (or don't know) about all others facts. I don't have a problem about positive feedback when it is justified but SSG has proved since long time there were not professional and did wrong things for their player many time. We have to demand the best for this game and we need always have a critical approach about everything.

    I hope you understood me. I am very disappointing to read comments like yours. This is not personal or harassment or hate speech.
    I do not take offense at your position. I take offense at your willful misrepresentation of my position. If you want to be of practical service to your agenda, you must pursue it honestly.
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  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    I don't condemn virtue revamp atm. But I have some doubts about nature of this another new fresh update only developed and designed under ingame store’s perspective and farming. Remember loot box and what they did with older key/chest/unbound store item.
    Yeah it's great they are becoming more relevant again.

    What's the cost? Did we catch SSG with their trousers down or is it just a maths error?


    Maybe our intrepid reporter can find out for us, she exposed who is actually in charge of things. Maybe dig deeper.

    To be honest I won't mind if the virtue ranks for already completed virtues on BR#3 actually reflects the new system earning mechanics. Then we'd all be in the same boat. Almost, new characters can max out 5 virtues with what's in game, completionist will have to see if the passives can offset being half way to max in 20 virtues with no mechanism to "re-virtue".


    As of BR#2 SSG have halved the game's virtue earning. It's like making the old system rank half a virtue for each completed virtue deed and not double the quantity of deeds in game to make up the difference.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    <...> Expect to see a better picture of this system, our intentions with it, and your intended use of it in the near future as this gets better polished.
    "We are adamant about adding yet another layer of grind. Expect no clear communication and little to no consideration of players' best interest, because we A. Have no idea what we are doing and B. Don't care too much as long as you buy keys."
    Kelewon, Brandywine

  23. #98
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    Sometimes (often) I wonder if SSG actually learn from previous mistakes. This virtue system is leading us down a similar path that LIs have got to. The LI system is now a hindrance to people wanting to develop new characters because of the awful grind it entails to get LIs up to a viable end-game level.
    The virtue system is at severe risk of attaining the same state.
    My cynical mind says that this is an attempt to leverage pay to win before it becomes illegal.

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    450
    You have noticed that, aside fromthe Universal Solvents, this week's sale is ENTIRELY Pay To Win?
    Immigrant from the City of Paragon. We are heroes. This is what we do.

    Founding member of Mornost Gwend of Gladden. "We shout a lot!"

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    239
    Quote Originally Posted by ENDrain View Post
    "We are adamant about adding yet another layer of grind. Expect no clear communication and little to no consideration of players' best interest, because we A. Have no idea what we are doing and B. Don't care too much as long as you buy keys."
    And what happens if players don't buy keys? Nothing changes. Keys have nothing related with virtue system. When most of players have virtues on 20+ rank, but game still have 20 cap, in players best interest SSG must change it. And they change it. For years virtues don't bring much to table, and people don't care about it. SSG try to change that too, and people quickly start complaining. We have thousands of players on live server, and how many players test content on Bullroar? 30-40

 

 
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