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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    It's not insane.

    It's only insane if you want to "max" something. If you want to be a "completest".
    In that regard there will be a good number of people that play one main characters and done all the deeds in many regions for LP or something. -They will receive credit of a huge number of virtue points to spend.
    Those completionist are in a great position, they will indeed get a huge contribution in the new system, quite obviously skewed in their favour actually. They currently don't have any say in how the virtue points are spent though. Going forward they can select one virtue to "earn" and all virtue points earned will rank up that one virtue until it reaches the cap of 60. Then further earned points will go to the first slotted virtue of your current trait build, then likely the other slotted virtues. But you can change your selected earning virtue at any time. Some flexibility might come into it down the road, but no hints that it's on the table right now.


    But I peronally am against jumping on the band wagon of complaining about the "grind". It's same as the famous scrolls of empowerment grind, it only becomes a problem if one has many alt characters that one wants to use at end game and be good at it. And for them there is Mithril, sorry to say. Because as wel know scrolls of empowerment come from a very many different places. And all you need to do to get them is to play the game, really.

    Same as above in regards to completing deeds. If you do not want to do it, well no one will really demand that you did.
    Although we have virtues capped at 20 we could have them at 20/34 and this would give you a very high rank possibly the 60 maximum when the system reaches Live. That's 34 deeds done to get the maximum benefit. However to rank up this new Wit deed in this system it currently requires 75 1000VP deeds to be completed to achieve the same result this completionist achieved. Is that fair to those who level up a new toon in the revamped virtue system? However many more virtue earning points are added it's still considerably more needed to be done and whatever extra ways this new toon has to earn points, these will be available to the completionist as well. But you are correct, if you want to max a new toon you have the store.



    As is often joked about: It's not your day job. (it's you night job :P) But seriously, it's going to be fine, just more options in a bigger virtue system, that's all.

    We have e-commerce wanting to sell more virtues in the store. The carrot will be the stats that the new virtue system provides. They have to be seen by enough players to be worth grinding or paying for. So you can bet end-game T whatever number raids will be balanced for that and "require" maxed out virtues.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  2. #52
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    If people who have 20-25 on virtues now are getting that converted to roughly double that on launch on U24, then the acquisition rate for newer players and alts needs to be roughly double what it is now too. Otherwise there's a very big discrepancy and it just punishes alts and new players.

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 120 - Brandywine

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belnavar View Post
    If people who have 20-25 on virtues now are getting that converted to roughly double that on launch on U24, then the acquisition rate for newer players and alts needs to be roughly double what it is now too. Otherwise there's a very big discrepancy and it just punishes alts and new players.

    -Bel
    I think the assumption being made is that the newer crop of players, if there are such things, are more used to the micro transitions app age.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belnavar View Post
    If people who have 20-25 on virtues now are getting that converted to roughly double that on launch on U24, then the acquisition rate for newer players and alts needs to be roughly double what it is now too. Otherwise there's a very big discrepancy and it just punishes alts and new players.

    -Bel
    Imagine if someone work 6 hours per day, and you work 12 hours per day. And first worker get x2 payment as reward to compensate amount of money. How you fell about that? It's same complain as "people have many alts, they can get more top essences from events, because I have only 1!". Some player work harder and rewarded for that.

  5. #55
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    CaerArianrhod is offline Rohirrim Scout
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    what do you need so much power for?
    I did not say that i need it.
    But if you take a look at all other virtues, the value of 775 is not in line with other virtue's stats and since we are talking about useful virtues, the more power would make "Patience" more attractive.

  6. #56
    I've been testing through the content and for the most part everything is flowing correctly, though sometimes our summonable NPC helpers show ring icons on the map from different phasings. The issue I am seeing at the moment is just after we gain the trust of the people of Arhaim in the southern part of the map and then move west with the NPC Baradal to visit Shathur-munzu. I cannot seem to find the location to make her phase (the ring icon is on the map and the quest guide says I am in the correct area but the quest is not advancing. Any help on this? It is kind of like how the warg boss in the north was no near the guidance and how the Walfast instance it was slightly unclear where exactly to stand to trigger the next phase/step of the instance.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    We talk about 6k maxmorale and 7k masteries. These are a huge boost and will help alot in endcontent. Especially if they ad t4 to tx we will need this stats.
    So they will be a must have not a choice of maxi g your char.
    It's quite normal to have all virtues today on your main character at 21 or so.

    When reset goes in you will be able to configure several of them at the max.

    As it is.

    As I say, my personal opinion is that it opens the virtue system up and it's going to be ok. (especially on your main that already has virtues that are overmax and others that are just sitting there)
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    Every class has certain stuff that don't scale and needs tweaks.
    But i my opinion the Burg update went a bit over the top, he is now the strongest dd, has the best survivability of all DDs and arguably offers the best support (besides rk's) of all dds.
    The only downside he has is that he is not ranged.

    If a class deals the most damage, it should not have any good support or survivability.
    On the other hand, if you want survivability and support you should not have the best damage, but burg has all of these things currently and I just want that devs take a look at that.
    And now you are just making stuff up and not even reading what you are, yourself writing.

    Range = 100% survivability.

    Burglar=no range

    Ever saw range classes kite?

    Our DPS is not strongest as well. Oh did I say we have to be arm's length for it as well? Ever hunted with a glass cannon burg? (they get oneshot) So, we "self nerf" by slotting mits and vit if we want to stand at that arm's length. And no we do not receive heavy armor bonuses. Ever heard some one say that they will take burg for tanking?

    Just stop making nonsense comments, please.

    We are not offering best support either. But that would depend on what you deside to call support this time around. Oh and support trait tree line does not have DPS all that much.
    But do go on demand that the class be nerfed into a delete state.

    Why people dislike the class so much. Is it some kind of mystery that frightens them.

    Ok then, please don't be afraid homie. We are none of the things you describe.
    dadislotroguides.com -Burg Guide
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    It doesn't change anything that this New system is grind per definition. And we've already to much grund in the game.
    And the worst it's all boring absolutely not challenging content.
    What's worse a lot of folks are like, really that close to being done, already.

    And honestly, current Virtue system is so outdated that it almost does not matter. It does need a big rework like this.

    It will only impact people that will want to max alts. Not really their main characters.
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod View Post
    I did not say that i need it.
    But if you take a look at all other virtues, the value of 775 is not in line with other virtue's stats and since we are talking about useful virtues, the more power would make "Patience" more attractive.
    Power is in line with the "main scheme of stats". The new virtue stats are now tied in. It's that Power didn't get a high magnitude in the grand stat reshuffle.



    I didn't bother checking the passives yet.

    Edit: Decrepit means 50% armour quality (gold is usually 100%)
    Edit2: ilvl ranks 55 and 57 confirmed
    Last edited by Giseldah; May 19 2019 at 05:58 AM.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    It's quite normal to have all virtues today on your main character at 21 or so.

    When reset goes in you will be able to configure several of them at the max.

    As it is.

    As I say, my personal opinion is that it opens the virtue system up and it's going to be ok. (especially on your main that already has virtues that are overmax and others that are just sitting there)
    As of BR#2
    20/21 is rather low. Your rank 20/21 virtues will give you a rank of around 49/60 in U24
    To gain rank 49 in the new system will require 59 1000VXP deed completions.

    There is no means to "configure" your virtue ranks.

    There's nothing in place to reset them or the spending of VXP. You just select one virtue to be "earning".

    Mains are not the issue, it's levelling up alts and newbies that face the issues and the poor souls on the LSs who thought they'd escape the grind.

    Please test for yourself.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Belnavar View Post
    If people who have 20-25 on virtues now are getting that converted to roughly double that on launch on U24, then the acquisition rate for newer players and alts needs to be roughly double what it is now too. Otherwise there's a very big discrepancy and it just punishes alts and new players.

    -Bel
    QFT.

    SSG are going to make a huge mistake if they put new players and alts at such a huge disadvantage compared to those who have already completed a lot of deeds. Why punish new players and alts? To drive them away from the game? To make people abandon their alts and play less? "Brilliant" plan, SSG! You want to make LOTRO a ghost town? Players are already leaving once they realize how much grind awaits them if they want to become competitive at endgame. Now you are making it even worse, so much worse.

    Every big change to any game system SSG have made, has made the game worse.

    I miss WB, I really do... ;(

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post
    As of BR#2
    20/21 is rather low. Your rank 20/21 virtues will give you a rank of around 49/60 in U24
    To gain rank 49 in the new system will require 59 1000VXP deed completions.

    There is no means to "configure" your virtue ranks.

    There's nothing in place to reset them or the spending of VXP. You just select one virtue to be "earning".

    Mains are not the issue, it's levelling up alts and newbies that face the issues and the poor souls on the LSs who thought they'd escape the grind.

    Please test for yourself.
    Thanks for the above.

    I thought that I saw on youtube preview that there will be several tabs that would allow more then one build saved and ready to go.

    But, I say. Still it does not feel all that bad. And oh yes all of you slackers will have to go to the shire and help with the wolf problem.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    Thanks for the above.

    I thought that I saw on youtube preview that there will be several tabs that would allow more then one build saved and ready to go.

    But, I say. Still it does not feel all that bad. And oh yes all of you slackers will have to go to the shire and help with the wolf problem.
    For each trait build you have you get to have a corresponding virtue set, the 5 slotted virtues, so you change build - red to yellow and the slotted virtues change at the same time. If you enter U24 for the first time with a less used build and switch to the usual build first thing but ignore the virtue panel you won't have any virtues slotted and VXP will be assigned to virtues alphabetically. The "polish" in upcoming build might change that, but there's a concern that in resetting or creating an new build people might miss configuring the virtue panel.

    Oddly the Race Traits haven't also been connected up to the traits and virtues. In the passed my raiding choices would be very different from my travelling about choices, FM against a class travel skill for example.

    Don't forget delivery of spoilt pies, you know the one where you did it once on a main and couldn't be bothered to do it on another toon. There'll be queues at the trestle tables waiting for the pie to respawn. Queuing is hobby in the UK and somewhat normalised in countries further east when resources are merger. More capitalist countries will splash the cash as conspicuous consumption is perceived very differently.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  15. #65
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    Random thought: exactly how, under the new system, do you identify deeds that will provide you with additional Virtue XP? At least under the old system the game would tell you... after you waited 30 seconds for the LOTRO store window to pop up so you could close it, of course.
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seschat View Post
    Random thought: exactly how, under the new system, do you identify deeds that will provide you with additional Virtue XP? At least under the old system the game would tell you... after you waited 30 seconds for the LOTRO store window to pop up so you could close it, of course.
    Under the old system you opened your Deed Log, and looked at the rewards for completing the Deeds. You could also check the Set Rewards box to see what Deeds further up the chain rewarded. Why would you need to go to the Store?
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  17. #67
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    Under old system virtue points were vertue specific. Under upcoming system there is a single pool of the points to spend on what you need.

    There is a way to get info on what is the next available deed to get next rank in a particular virtue, you click in the large "ring" and before deed info pops up store auto-pop's up.
    So, I do not believe the player above said anything about intentionally going to the store. It just auto pops up offering you to buy virtues from the store. Anyone that has checked it this way would know.

    But now it looks like they should just offer single button for mithril to increase virtues overall number and streamline it all for the folks wishing to spend some $$.
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballie View Post
    For each trait build you have you get to have a corresponding virtue set, the 5 slotted virtues, so you change build - red to yellow and the slotted virtues change at the same time. If you enter U24 for the first time with a less used build and switch to the usual build first thing but ignore the virtue panel you won't have any virtues slotted and VXP will be assigned to virtues alphabetically. The "polish" in upcoming build might change that, but there's a concern that in resetting or creating an new build people might miss configuring the virtue panel.

    Oddly the Race Traits haven't also been connected up to the traits and virtues. In the passed my raiding choices would be very different from my travelling about choices, FM against a class travel skill for example.

    Don't forget delivery of spoilt pies, you know the one where you did it once on a main and couldn't be bothered to do it on another toon. There'll be queues at the trestle tables waiting for the pie to respawn. Queuing is hobby in the UK and somewhat normalised in countries further east when resources are merger. More capitalist countries will splash the cash as conspicuous consumption is perceived very differently.
    Last paragraph is hilariously funny, you are seriously cool. The bad pies, people lining up to get them! Very funny.

    Overall I read that people would get credit for all deeds completed as of change over even if they never got reflected in the 20/21 number. Which is in a way my clue as to why SSG is doing it in a first place. They just rightfully so need bigger system to work with, current system is just completely outgrown as of now.
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areyekuwe View Post
    There is a way to get info on what is the next available deed to get next rank in a particular virtue, you click in the large "ring" and before deed info pops up store auto-pop's up.
    So, I do not believe the player above said anything about intentionally going to the store. It just auto pops up offering you to buy virtues from the store. Anyone that has checked it this way would know.
    I guess I've never searched for Virtue/Deed information that way so I've never seen the Store pop up.
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
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  20. #70
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    build 3?

    can we expect a new bullroarer beta build for this week?

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bighanson1 View Post
    can we expect a new bullroarer beta build for this week?
    No, unfortunately some technical issues are preventing us from offering a Bullroarer preview this week. We are targeting a preview for next week, however, and we'll work to get some further updated Virtue system information on the Bullroarer forums here this week.
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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    No, unfortunately some technical issues are preventing us from offering a Bullroarer preview this week. We are targeting a preview for next week, however, and we'll work to get some further updated Virtue system information on the Bullroarer forums here this week.
    alright, thanks for your response.
    Last edited by Bighanson1; May 22 2019 at 04:33 PM.

  23. #73
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    That's a relief, I might not have been able to get on BR the next couple of days.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  24. #74
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    No, unfortunately some technical issues are preventing us from offering a Bullroarer preview this week. We are targeting a preview for next week, however, and we'll work to get some further updated Virtue system information on the Bullroarer forums here this week.
    That's a good thing. Not that You have technical issues, but admitting it and not stressing the update out, but take Your time and truly fix the issues before it goes live. I have personally never been in favour of stressing out releases and fix the issues aftewards, as that simply creates alot of aggrivation and frustration for the customers.

    Clearly the new virtue systems needs alot of adjustements. As it is now, even if one deed rewards 1 virtue rank (like before), it will still not be the same and now only reward 1/60th of a virtues cap, compared to doing 1 deed gave 1/20th of a virtues cap under the old system. In some cases it seemed like deeds don't even rewards 1 rank worth of virtue XP. Meaning it's not only a huge devalue on doing deeds (half or even 1/3 compared to before), but even adding that on top and it will be insanely grindy, so it definetly needs fixing and adjusting, or it will become an insane grind than new players or alt characters will feel is a such a huge wall to climb that they might give up all together. Equaling the LI grind. Adding some daily grindable quests in new areas and some Festival wrappers rewarding a bit of VXP during Festivals simply will not compensate for this huge devalue in what deeds will reward towards virtues under the new system.

    As for technical issues, I'm just about to make a list of the issues I encounered in the 64-bit client thread. I had to gather my notes and make some image examples from screenshots to show what excactly I did and what I encountered, so not had time to do that until now.

  25. #75
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    Lightbulb

    As I was compiling the post in the 64-bit client thread, I remembered this small thing from BR testing that is more sutited for the thread. The loot tables in new area might be a bit off. defeating LvL 120 Goblins would drop old type LvL 115 Doomfold potions, not LvL 120 Ered Mithrin potions like mobs of the same level range drop in both Iron Hills and Ered Mithrin. Potentially this means other loot items are from the wrong loot table too, not sure.

 

 
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