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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Ul'dah
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    8,333

    To help or not to help, that is the question

    When I first started playing long ago people would sometimes get really upset about a stranger helping them with a fight because it cut into their XP (if I recall correctly). This was a looooong time ago, and I can't remember what I did yesterday, so maybe I'm not 100% correct on that. Anyway some people got upset for one reason or another and didn't want anyone touching *their* mob. This left people wondering whether to help or not help even when it looked like the person was on the path to defeat.

    Is there a currently accepted standard about what to do if you're in an area with several mobs and 1 or more other players are nearby and you're not grouped? Are you supposed to run by and ignore them? Or help out? Or ask before attacking (seems kinda silly imo)? Or stand still and watch?

    I took a multi-year break from the game and don't know if the culture of the community has changed since the early days. If someone wants to help me kill something I'm all for it, but everyone might not feel the same way.
    Ijustpassedgas Excuseme
    Yeasty Infection

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    eu
    Posts
    138
    This is an mmo not a single player game. No one owns nodes or mobs. This is not one person's world but all our world. It's still nice to be polite. If I see someone fighting a mob near s node I wait until they kill the mob and see if they take the node. If not I take it. I look at others health if they ate in problem before I jump in and help kill the mob. But they don't have monopoly on an area. If I need a slayer deed I will kill the other mobs of same type even if others there before me. That's just how I do.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,652
    Nobody ownes the mob, nor will they lose anything nowadays if you tap into it. If I see someone fighting a mob, I'll stand still a little way off. Usually, if they want help, they will run the mob toward you. That's usually a good indicator. I also use see target's target, so if I target the mob, I can see the morale of the person fighting it. If they look like they're gonna drop, I'll pull aggro.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Maybury Hill
    Posts
    824
    If I’m passing, I tend to just dive in and help. Mobs are “open-tapping”, so it doesn’t hurt anyone’s loot or XP to help. I think it only reduces the XP if you are actually in a fellowship, so weirdly it’s actually more beneficial XP-wise to just run around together killing stuff rather than actually joining a fellowship (although you would have to make sure you both get at least one hit in on every mob, which can be tricky).

    Equally, I don’t mind if someone chips in when I’m fighting mobs. If it looks like they are farming the same deed, I’ll invite them so we are helping each other rather than competing for mobs.

    Edit: I said “mob” a lot in that post
    “...and he lived happily ever after, to the end of his days”

  5. #5
    IIRC, on launch the last player to hit a mob before it dropped got all of the XP for it and no one else did.
    Hence the people getting upset.

    That was changed pretty early on.

    [edit] As noted below, I was wrong. The FIRST person to tap a mob got all of the XP originally.

    Memory can be a fragile thing after 50
    Last edited by Occum; Apr 11 2019 at 08:39 PM. Reason: correction

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Occum View Post
    IIRC, on launch the last player to hit a mob before it dropped got all of the XP for it and no one else did.
    Hence the people getting upset.

    That was changed pretty early on.
    Actually it wasn't that early on... IIRC it was update 9 at the tail end of 2012...

    This was the producers letter from the end of 2012...


    Letter from the Producer: Looking Back on 2012
    By: Aaron "Rowan" Campbell

    Hello all! As we close out 2012, I wanted to give you a current “state of the game” report and highlights from the past year. Kate Paiz (LOTRO’s Executive Producer) will be back in early 2013 with more detail on our upcoming plans for LOTRO development.

    The biggest event of the year was the launch of LOTRO’s fourth expansion, Riders of Rohan. I’m especially proud of RoR – it was both LOTRO’s largest (landmass and quests) and highest rated expansion. We introduced Mounted Combat, let you walk in the footsteps of Frodo and Boromir, resolved almost 8000 bugs, and added another 500,000 words to the game.

    2012 also brought us:

    LOTRO’s 5th Anniversary Celebration
    The Great River region
    Open Tapping and Remote Looting
    Revised Moria quest lines and story
    Scaled Fornost and Dol Guldur instances
    Audacity and Ettenmoors keep capture updates
    Where are we currently? The game is always evolving (and the team never sits still), so here are a few things we’re working on now for the first half of 2013.

    Rohan Instance Cluster (Part 2) – [Spoiler!] The highlight of this cluster is the raid spaces, which together tell the story of the Battle of Dale from the sacking of Dale through to the heroic last stand at the Siege of Erebor. “The Bells of Dale” is a 6-person space set in Dale during its final hours. “Flight to the Lonely Mountain,” “The Fires of Smaug” and “The Battle for Erebor” are 12-person raids that set you against armies of Easterlings and their massive war machines.

    Class Skills – In years gone by the LOTRO team has conducted class “Month Of” events to make changes and improvements to the classes. Heading into 2013, we are looking into player feedback in regards to skills (ones that are great and ones that really aren’t) and overall progression. Advancing through current and future levels should have a real payoff, and the class should feel different as you progress and grow your abilities.

    And what else… More Scaled Instances (“In Your Absence” – welcome back to Ost Dunhoth). More landscape quests and Epic Story. Rebalanced loot drops for skirmishes and scaling instances.

    Thank you for loving this game like we do! I look forward to seeing you in Middle-earth in 2013.

    Aaron “Rowan” Campbell – Senior Producer, LOTRO

    Developer Diaries
    Last edited by TearMaker; Apr 11 2019 at 02:05 PM.
    WHY DO PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE LEAST, KNOW IT THE LOUDEST?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    UK
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    3,864
    If I am on, or over level and I see an on level player in a fight I will give the mob a shot to help them out, even if it looks like they dont really need it.

    If I am on a slayer deed and a high level comes along and ignores me and starts one shot'ing everything, I will do my best to get in front of them and get a shot in.

    Although you get the odd L120 a-hole like last night, who ignored me, started killing everything in sight, (Orc camp in Moria); so I started running and hitting as many mobs possible with anything I had and as fast as I could, before he could get to them (I needed x kills for the quest). Once he realised what I was doing, he kite'ed off, leaving me with 5 very angry mobs and a Boss to deal with. Luckily, all four light based area skills were nearly ready, and the +5 Light damage on my book helped take them down.

    Sadly, this is the typical behaviour of the current "bought my way to L120" and gold farming crowds.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    451
    I concur with all that's been said.

    There are times when some players are attempting to extract an additional challenge out of the game. Back when The Great River was cap I liked to push the hunter by taking out the trolls solo. Hunters had to be mostly static then so fears and traps enabled a certain amount of control to gain some distance. Someone "lending a hand" could break a fear early and be toast for both . If you can't handle what's in the fight alone maybe don't aid them, if you are slow and the guy bleeds out as you get the attention you're on your own. Likewise in the case of a Warden or Guardian with a mass of mobs in toe, they might just be able to handle things but maybe not have threat building in their rotations so an AE might have a flood of mobs coming your way.

    You have to take a look at the character in question and judge if you think they know what they are doing. Part of the challenge might be some acceptable defeats before overcoming the odds.

    Now if you are a hobbit or mini and someone is rushing by to tag a load of mobs for their deed and leaving you to finish them off then you are encouraged to flop and drop all the aggro on them
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them under a spot light

  9. #9
    Like others have said, the advent of open-tapping altered both the game mechanics and accepted etiquette. I have no problem with someone helping me kill my target. We each reap the reward, be it XP, loot, Deed progression, etc. I play Hunters, so pulling a group of mobs off another character isn't really a concern. I have--a few times--"stolen" aggro from the guy who originally tapped the mob, but I only chip in when I know I can take the mob solo. That is a good rule of thumb ... as a previous poster said.

    I recall one time, I stumbled across a fellow Hunter working on an Elite, I added my attack, which drew aggro to me. I shed aggro, so the Elite turned back to the other Hunter. He reciprocated, so the Elite turned to me again. We bounced this Elite back and forth like a tennis ball until it dropped ... never having actually reached either of us once we began. I nodded; the other Hunter bowed; and we went our separate ways.

    I sometimes find myself grinding a slayer deed while over-leveled for the region. If ANYONE on-level is in the vicinity killing the same mobs, I just follow them, let them tap the mob first, then finish it. That way, they cannot complain that I am hogging all the mobs. If I encounter another over-leveled character, I invite them to fellow-up so we can separate and get credit for each other's kills.

    Honestly, sharing an open-tapped mob is about all the "multiplayer" I get out of this MMORPG these days.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    217
    Quote Originally Posted by TearMaker View Post
    Actually it wasn't that early on... IIRC it was update 9 at the tail end of 2012...

    This was the producers letter from the end of 2012...


    Letter from the Producer: Looking Back on 2012
    By: Aaron "Rowan" Campbell

    Hello all! As we close out 2012, I wanted to give you a current “state of the game” report and highlights from the past year. Kate Paiz (LOTRO’s Executive Producer) will be back in early 2013 with more detail on our upcoming plans for LOTRO development.

    The biggest event of the year was the launch of LOTRO’s fourth expansion, Riders of Rohan. I’m especially proud of RoR – it was both LOTRO’s largest (landmass and quests) and highest rated expansion. We introduced Mounted Combat, let you walk in the footsteps of Frodo and Boromir, resolved almost 8000 bugs, and added another 500,000 words to the game.

    2012 also brought us:

    LOTRO’s 5th Anniversary Celebration
    The Great River region
    Open Tapping and Remote Looting
    Revised Moria quest lines and story
    Scaled Fornost and Dol Guldur instances
    Audacity and Ettenmoors keep capture updates
    Where are we currently? The game is always evolving (and the team never sits still), so here are a few things we’re working on now for the first half of 2013.

    Rohan Instance Cluster (Part 2) – [Spoiler!] The highlight of this cluster is the raid spaces, which together tell the story of the Battle of Dale from the sacking of Dale through to the heroic last stand at the Siege of Erebor. “The Bells of Dale” is a 6-person space set in Dale during its final hours. “Flight to the Lonely Mountain,” “The Fires of Smaug” and “The Battle for Erebor” are 12-person raids that set you against armies of Easterlings and their massive war machines.

    Class Skills – In years gone by the LOTRO team has conducted class “Month Of” events to make changes and improvements to the classes. Heading into 2013, we are looking into player feedback in regards to skills (ones that are great and ones that really aren’t) and overall progression. Advancing through current and future levels should have a real payoff, and the class should feel different as you progress and grow your abilities.

    And what else… More Scaled Instances (“In Your Absence” – welcome back to Ost Dunhoth). More landscape quests and Epic Story. Rebalanced loot drops for skirmishes and scaling instances.

    Thank you for loving this game like we do! I look forward to seeing you in Middle-earth in 2013.

    Aaron “Rowan” Campbell – Senior Producer, LOTRO

    Developer Diaries
    You are confusing some events here. Immediately prior to the introduction to open tapping, the first person/fellowship to hit a mob got the xp, not the last one to hit them.
    120Grd 120Min 120Hunt 119Burg 120Ch 114RK 108Wdn 100Cpt 91LM 46Brn ::Leader of Phoenix Rising, Arkenstone::
    40Grd 35Min 35Ch 40RK 40Hunt 40Wdn ::Founder of The People Person's Paper People, Evernight::

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbornal View Post
    You are confusing some events here. Immediately prior to the introduction to open tapping, the first person/fellowship to hit a mob got the xp, not the last one to hit them.
    No confusion here... I was there.. read my post.. I actually gave no comment about anything... just quoted when open tapping came into force.

    And if you want to be infinitely correct there was a brief spell when tagging another players mob gave them a reduced xp but thats splitting hairs
    WHY DO PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE LEAST, KNOW IT THE LOUDEST?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Cornwall, UK
    Posts
    1,418
    From my point of view I find it as frustrating as hell when someone piles in on the mob that I am fighting. Ok so I don't lose loot or xp, but it does prevent me using skills! It's bloody annoying when you are trying to complete skill deeds and somebody "helpfully" kills the mob before you can fire off the skill you are trying to complete the deed for. For example, when I am trying to get a crit from a skill that can only be opened by a crit, then having a helpful person kill the mob before I can use that skill is not very helpful. Or especially on my low level warden, I need to fire off a gambit, use the 2 skills that opens the gambit and someone else kills the mob before I can use the bloody gambit on it! Frustration doesn't even come close. And it's not as if I can go use a target dummy, since when is there another target dummy I can use once the Archet ones are no longer useful at about level 14?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Somerville, MA, USA
    Posts
    610
    I generally just charge in. If they want to fight another mob together, they'll usually be interested in going the same way I am. If they run off and do their own thing, I don't follow. A single mob is just a single mob.
    On Crickhollow: Wenslydale (Hobbit Burglar), Leolwyn (Woman Hunter)
    On Anor, Victory's Secret: Ardith Exhibitionaire (Woman Captain)
    Feel the Breeze! Naked Aventuring: http://www.lotro.com/forums/showthre...endary-servers

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    217
    Quote Originally Posted by TearMaker View Post
    No confusion here... I was there.. read my post.. I actually gave no comment about anything... just quoted when open tapping came into force.
    There most certainly is confusion on your part. I did read your post and even quoted it, so you can shelf the attitude. You must have forgotten what you were commenting on. So, I will refresh your memory. You commented about Occum's post referring to the last person tagging a mob getting the xp, and you commented about when that got changed- hence the correction I gave.

    Also, I was here when that change took place as well.

    Best of luck to you.
    120Grd 120Min 120Hunt 119Burg 120Ch 114RK 108Wdn 100Cpt 91LM 46Brn ::Leader of Phoenix Rising, Arkenstone::
    40Grd 35Min 35Ch 40RK 40Hunt 40Wdn ::Founder of The People Person's Paper People, Evernight::

  15. #15
    I feel very strongly about this now that I have my level 107 Captain fighting in Mordor: yes, yes, YES, please help your fellow allies in the world. Especially if you see in the chat they are dying over and over and over.
    Cinders, Cinderl, Cinderm, Cinderc, Cinderb, Cinderk, Cindercha, Cinderw and WildlingVal of Landroval:)
    Proud Officer of "Kings Beyond the Wall" kinship:)

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbornal View Post
    There most certainly is confusion on your part. I did read your post and even quoted it, so you can shelf the attitude. You must have forgotten what you were commenting on. So, I will refresh your memory. You commented about Occum's post referring to the last person tagging a mob getting the xp, and you commented about when that got changed- hence the correction I gave.

    Also, I was here when that change took place as well.

    Best of luck to you.
    Oh I do need a lot of luck... and thank you for the vibes...

    However, everything I stated was correct. Open tapping came into force in 2012 in Book 9. (IIRC)_________
    By the way, my shelves are filled with attitude and I am now trying to balance them with Peace... (|o_/\_o|)

    So, I will leave it there
    WHY DO PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE LEAST, KNOW IT THE LOUDEST?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    15,220
    I generally don't interfere with someone else's fight ... unless I happen to ID him and see that he's seriously low on Morale. Then I'll heal him, but not kill his mob for him unless he's in *way* over his head.

    The only time someone complained that I was killing "his" mobs was I forget how long ago -- it was after the time recorded upthread, when tagging no longer happened. He was laying claim to every mob in the valley -- a small valley, and the quest could be completed only by killing those specific mobs. I forget now what I did ... possibly ignored him.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone
    www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TearMaker View Post
    Oh I do need a lot of luck... and thank you for the vibes...

    However, everything I stated was correct. Open tapping came into force in 2012 in Book 9. (IIRC)_________
    By the way, my shelves are filled with attitude and I am now trying to balance them with Peace... (|o_/\_o|)

    So, I will leave it there
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Rainy WA
    Posts
    192
    Often when I see someone fighting I do a quick check of their health v. their opponent and do assist if they look like they need help. I do not interfere if they look healthy and in charge UNLESS I am in the middle of a deed and they just entered the area. Ages ago there was an XP steal if someone "took" your kill but that is not an issue now. I do agree that when a way over level comes into an area to finish a deed, they should concede the space to on-level folks who are trying to use skills, complete quests and/or get slayer deeds finished but no one "owns" an area or mob so it's just what you think is the right thing to do. I treat the game as a community, not as a solo event so I try to consider what my fellow players out there might be doing or need to do.

    Just my 2¢

    ...when in doubt...twirl...

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Wales, United Kingdom
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaboj View Post
    Often when I see someone fighting I do a quick check of their health v. their opponent and do assist if they look like they need help. I do not interfere if they look healthy and in charge UNLESS I am in the middle of a deed and they just entered the area. Ages ago there was an XP steal if someone "took" your kill but that is not an issue now. I do agree that when a way over level comes into an area to finish a deed, they should concede the space to on-level folks who are trying to use skills, complete quests and/or get slayer deeds finished but no one "owns" an area or mob so it's just what you think is the right thing to do. I treat the game as a community, not as a solo event so I try to consider what my fellow players out there might be doing or need to do.

    Just my 2¢
    Yes, I agree, if doing a deed over level and a low level is in the same space, let them take the first shots or leave and come back later. That said, I was once in the barrow of Taradan killing spiders (5+ years ago now) and a low level entered the barrow. I was way over level, so I immediately stopped. The low level saw me and invited me to fellowship, so I accepted, safe in the knowledge that he was happy for me to proceed to kill everything in sight. I said hello in chat, he reciprocated and told me that he had a quest and a deed to do. I then went on with the business of clearing the barrow. It took a little while for me to notice, but he seemed to have branched off to a different tunnel and had become still. I made my way around to him, half expecting to find him either dead or engaged in a long fight, but he was just standing still, facing a wall. I said Hi in chat, but no answer. Then I thought maybe he had disconnected, so I hung around, waiting to see the link dead, but that didn't come either. At that point, I guessed he must have finished his quest and a lesser deed, so I killed the 20 spiders I still had left on the deed and left the barrow. Half an hour later I got an irate pm saying "thanks for leaving me here, I got killed". When I asked what happened, I was told "I went to watch TV, and when I got back I was dead and only half my spider deed was done".

    The ironic thing about it is, if the player had stayed, I without doubt, would have stayed until his deed was done, long after my own was finished. I probably would have even if he had said, do you mind If I follow. Seems the player followed, walked away without word, then got stuck on a wall.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  21. #21
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    Jul 2016
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    UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Yes, I agree, if doing a deed over level and a low level is in the same space, let them take the first shots or leave and come back later. That said, I was once in the barrow of Taradan killing spiders (5+ years ago now) and a low level entered the barrow. I was way over level, so I immediately stopped. The low level saw me and invited me to fellowship, so I accepted, safe in the knowledge that he was happy for me to proceed to kill everything in sight. I said hello in chat, he reciprocated and told me that he had a quest and a deed to do. I then went on with the business of clearing the barrow. It took a little while for me to notice, but he seemed to have branched off to a different tunnel and had become still. I made my way around to him, half expecting to find him either dead or engaged in a long fight, but he was just standing still, facing a wall. I said Hi in chat, but no answer. Then I thought maybe he had disconnected, so I hung around, waiting to see the link dead, but that didn't come either. At that point, I guessed he must have finished his quest and a lesser deed, so I killed the 20 spiders I still had left on the deed and left the barrow. Half an hour later I got an irate pm saying "thanks for leaving me here, I got killed". When I asked what happened, I was told "I went to watch TV, and when I got back I was dead and only half my spider deed was done".

    The ironic thing about it is, if the player had stayed, I without doubt, would have stayed until his deed was done, long after my own was finished. I probably would have even if he had said, do you mind If I follow. Seems the player followed, walked away without word, then got stuck on a wall.
    Geez, the player sound like such a huge A Hole, I am surprised they could get their trousers on.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Middle-earth
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    2,474

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Yes, I agree, if doing a deed over level and a low level is in the same space, let them take the first shots or leave and come back later. That said, I was once in the barrow of Taradan killing spiders (5+ years ago now) and a low level entered the barrow. I was way over level, so I immediately stopped. The low level saw me and invited me to fellowship, so I accepted, safe in the knowledge that he was happy for me to proceed to kill everything in sight. I said hello in chat, he reciprocated and told me that he had a quest and a deed to do. I then went on with the business of clearing the barrow. It took a little while for me to notice, but he seemed to have branched off to a different tunnel and had become still. I made my way around to him, half expecting to find him either dead or engaged in a long fight, but he was just standing still, facing a wall. I said Hi in chat, but no answer. Then I thought maybe he had disconnected, so I hung around, waiting to see the link dead, but that didn't come either. At that point, I guessed he must have finished his quest and a lesser deed, so I killed the 20 spiders I still had left on the deed and left the barrow. Half an hour later I got an irate pm saying "thanks for leaving me here, I got killed". When I asked what happened, I was told "I went to watch TV, and when I got back I was dead and only half my spider deed was done".

    The ironic thing about it is, if the player had stayed, I without doubt, would have stayed until his deed was done, long after my own was finished. I probably would have even if he had said, do you mind If I follow. Seems the player followed, walked away without word, then got stuck on a wall.
    Eheh! That story reminds me of so many times I have offered to help people then ending up in drama over something. Just offering to port someone have sometimes end up in drama if i don't stay just stamding around to port them back 20 min later when they were done with whatever they were doing wherever I had ported them too. Thinking I was some Taxi that stand with a meter running, or even meter switched off so no fare to pay, but still waiting for them.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Middle-earth
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    2,474

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by weeddemon View Post
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
    Awesome quote. Now I want to listen to "Voodoo Chile". Acctually I got in the mood to listen to any of the good old rock classics. Maybe even some Led Zeppelin "Whole Lotta Love" or "Black Dog". Maybe later today when I'm all done for the week. Take a latte in the sun, headphones on and a cigar. Sounds like a plan. Thank You for the inspiration !!!

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    UK
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    42
    I love saving people in a pinch and I have no problems with people saving me, thats the part I like when a random stranger comes to your aid! my favorite story was when i was on my alt LM and fighting a handful of mobs drop a gourd and ring of fire and suddenly a champ comes through with whole of an instance behind him and as the mobs hit fire all turn on me! for a split second the champ stopped and thought for a second I think in his mind he heard me cursing to myself as im water loring for my life, he turns back runs to my aid with horn sounding and a shingshing and we managed to take down the horde in AOE goodness!

    these are the moments i remember more than any loot!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    994
    Coming from EQ where out in open world, all xp/loot/flags goes to player/group/raid that did most damage to the mob, killstealing is considered extremely bad manners. You don't touch a mob another party engaged. You might drop a heal on the player or a debuff on the mob, but doing damage without asked is a no.
    I did not even know about open tapping in LotRO until my main were in 30s. Thought a lot of players were jerks...

 

 
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