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  1. #1
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    Bullroarer Update 23.5 Preview #1 - Release Notes

    Bullroarer has been updated to build 2305.0061.1867.4359.

    Bullroarer will be available until Thursday 6:00pm EST (04/11). Time is subject to change!

    This update contains Burglar class changes, bug fixes and more! Please keep in mind that this update is still in development and this does not reflect the final state of the game. This list of changes is not meant to cover every change or issue in the game, but if you find something notable we omitted from the lists, please let me know and I will add it

    General:
    • Making store purchases on an account with no characters will no longer incorrectly tell you that it failed to deliver character items when the purchase did not include a character item. This is the case for the vast majority of purchases that can be made at character selection or during character generation.

    Beorning:
    • Relentless maul now does ~double damage when it is traited for brutal energy, which halves its duration.
    • Beorning blue line version of Relentless Maul is now called Menacing Maul, and it's duration is no longer halved.
    • Vigilant Roar Reflect Damage legacy now correctly modifies incoming healing and is named properly. It is not providing the correct increase yet, but is no longer removing the incoming healing benefit.
    • Some Beorning animation changes were not properly applied to male Beornings, these have been updated.

    Minstrel:
    • Fixed Major Ballad description.
    • Improved Hero's Strike now properly increases Hero's Strike heal component.
    • Instruments should no longer get stuck in hands after certain skill plays.

    Burglar:
    • The basic goal is to increase the Burglar's general DPS, fix some general structural issues with their skills, improve their group survivability, and streamline their play a bit.
    • Damage on MOST skills has been increased and shuffled about in an attempt to put more skills in the usable range of DPS.
    • Heals have likewise been re-balanced.
    • All melee skills have had their range increased to a minimum of 3.5
    • Most of the burglar's skills had the 'Fast' trait removed - but this only really had an effect when the prior skill had an execution time longer than it's animation time, and I fixed most of those to be the same, so in practice it shouldn't actually make much difference.
    • Subtle Stab is still 'Fast' so you can pretty easily test to see which skills are/aren't shortened by throwing a fast skill in there and can provide feedback on the change.
    • Double Edged Strike is now an immediate skill, so you can instantly roll into your crit chain the moment you land one.
    • Find Footing is now Instant.
    • Provoke now has a 15m range and an 6s cooldown.
    • Provoke provides a 20% crit chance bonus on your next attack - a lesser 'aim' effect.
    • Provoke provides a stacking (x3) self buff that halves the damage of the next attack against you. This is intended as a group play defense to help burglars build up a buffer against those large boss attacks. It's useful in solo, but nearly as much so as it is impossible to build a stack when you are the main target of attacks.
    • Provoke no longer penalizes your party's crit chance against the target by 2% (which is what it's actually been doing for a very long time...)
    • Mischevious Glee now heals for 10%, +2% per pulse
    • Self Adulation trait now adds 20% to Clever Retort healing, and +5 pulses to Mischevious Glee.
    • Both Double Edged Strike and Flashing Blades are now AoE skills (3 targets), to give burglars better DPS in group pulls, esp red line.
    • Coup De Gras no longer has a critical magnitude bonus, but does better base damage. Its cooldown has been reduced [60->30s]
    • Feint now allows you to trigger more stealth effects and bonuses of other skills, though it still does not provide true stealth's melee damage bonus.
    • Knives Out was changed substantially. In addition to its usual effects, it now has a small radius Force Taunt that lasts for the duration of the effect, followed by an agro dump that substantially reduces the burglar's agro in a similar radius.
    • Cunning strike bleeds were cleaned up. They are now short duration non-stacking bleeds that apply at 4 different magnitudes, depending on how hard you crit, +1 from stealth.
    • You can now have one gamble of each type on a target simultaneously (Red = DoT, Green = reactive heal, Blue = offensive debuff).
    • The skills Gambler's Strike, Hedge Your Bet, and Blind Bet now apply each of these gambles respectively.
    • A blue line burglar stealth surprise attack can apply a completely random gamble.
    • Gambles can no longer be tiered up or down - they simply roll a new 1-6 value when re-applied.
    • Gambles now last a base 30 seconds (blue is currently 20 seconds).
    • Cash Out eats all gambles on the target, granting a high magnitude damage effect, a self-HoT, and a Stun respectively.
    • In the future the goal is for the Magnitude of each these Cash Out effects to be based on the total value of the Gamble Dice on the target when it cashes out - this is currently waiting on a bit of tech, so the current cash-out effects can be considered placeholders.
    • Cash Out's cooldown is now base 40 seconds.
    • Note that gambles are NOT per burlgar, they are per target, so competing burglars will overrite or consume each other's gambles.
    • Gamble Icons revamped.
    • Knives Out now mitigates all forms of incoming damage.
    • Subtle Stab cooldown reduced to [3->2.5s]
    • Gamble Chance mods changed to Gamble Damage mods.

    Known Issues:
    • Instances are currently displaying some debug information in the chat window
    • Burglar - Some legacies need to be updated due to skill changes (Riddle Range Provoke Critical Chance Debuff, Mischievous Glee, Gamble Chance) .
    • Burglar - Lucky/Gambler's strike needs to be updated based on gamble changes.
    • Burglar - Even the Odds trait is not currently working properly.
    • Burglar - Sharp eye buff icon is appearing after critical hits regardless of spec.
    • Burglar - Damaging gamble Cash Out is healing target
    • Burglar - Cash out is not working properly on blue and green gambles when multiple burglars are in a fellowship.
    • Burglar - Some skill descriptions still need to be updated to reflect the new changes (Mischievous Glee, Coup de Grace).
    Last edited by LordOfTheSquids; Apr 10 2019 at 02:35 PM.

  2. #2
    quite an interesting list... so making blue line viable again, while fixing its most obvious exploits... why not.
    and the changes to survivability in groups sound nice, too.
    However, as long as there are instances/fights like thrumfall, where range is clearly preferred over melee, all that wont help much.

    I welcome that blue-line rework, although it doesnt change anything in burglars roles and a third role (ranged DPS or tank) would have helped more with getting into groups, especially for smaller instances.

    On Cunning Attack: I dont really like what I read there, will have to check it... if the dot duration now is shorter/as long as the cooldown, the new version makes sense... but then CA is either extremely potent burst now, if it applies all its previous damage in 5s instead of 30/20s or got a serious nerf.
    If the duration is longer than CD and the dots dont stack anymore at all, thats again a serious nerf.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Gründer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
    Deutsche Guides für nahezu alles, was Casuals interessieren könnte, gibts hier: http://gdfv.forumo.de/guides-f24/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordOfTheSquids View Post
    Bullroarer has been updated to build 2305.0061.1867.4359.

    Bullroarer will be available until Thursday 6:00pm EST (04/11). Time is subject to change!
    1 day? what kind of meaningful testing do you expect players to do in just 1 day? Keep it open until weekend at least
    My Lotro blog :)

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post

    On Cunning Attack: I dont really like what I read there, will have to check it... if the dot duration now is shorter/as long as the cooldown, the new version makes sense... but then CA is either extremely potent burst now, if it applies all its previous damage in 5s instead of 30/20s or got a serious nerf.
    If the duration is longer than CD and the dots dont stack anymore at all, thats again a serious nerf.
    The Dot lasts as long as the cool down now unless u trait the +2 bleed pulses in which case they stack to a certain degree.
    lil 'obbit of Evernight...

    Chaos Unbound, Paradox, Silent Paths, Ascension, Bonehunters, Legion of the Valar

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by LordOfTheSquids View Post
    [*]Knives Out was changed substantially. In addition to its usual effects, it now has a small radius Force Taunt that lasts for the duration of the effect, followed by an agro dump that substantially reduces the burglar's agro in a similar radius.
    I guess i'm just having a hard time understanding this. But please explain the point of this change?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    4,392
    How about..... the 64-bit client?
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckygirl1 View Post
    I guess i'm just having a hard time understanding this. But please explain the point of this change?
    clearly a meta change, they want to give you the ability to tank the energizer for your group
    Estarossa, Rank 15 rune-keeper, Ark

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by luckygirl1 View Post
    I guess i'm just having a hard time understanding this. But please explain the point of this change?
    The latest fad in endgame burglaring, force taunt and aggro wipe, just for the lulz!

    Quote Originally Posted by LordOfTheSquids
    Damage on MOST skills has been increased and shuffled about in an attempt to put more skills in the usable range of DPS.
    Heals have likewise been re-balanced.
    Heal on Touch and Go remains the same, resettable 50% heal is way too much for a class that just got a big DPS boost.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordOfTheSquids
    Provoke now has a 15m range and an 6s cooldown.
    Provoke provides a 20% crit chance bonus on your next attack - a lesser 'aim' effect.
    Provoke still provides a chance to provide a daze, on top of the new buffs added. Pls fix since it is no longer supposed to daze.
    Last edited by xxSniperxx; Apr 10 2019 at 02:55 PM.

  9. #9
    It makes me want to level my little burg to cap !

    Oh wait....I CAN'T. Because there is no way I can gather +1000000 scrolls to make my LIs relevant.

    A shame lol.

    #thereisalwayshope

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sahanto View Post
    clearly a meta change, they want to give you the ability to tank the energizer for your group
    I am just not sure what their vision is for this class now, Vastin mentioned he wanted their ST to be on par with hunters.

    We get AoE skills to be effect in clearing adds and being useful dps in thirteen kings.

    But then we get this, are we suppose to build tankier now with knives out in mind? Just seems like such a wast of time and energy to work into all these changes

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aymerik View Post
    It makes me want to level my little burg to cap !

    Oh wait....I CAN'T. Because there is no way I can gather +1000000 scrolls to make my LIs relevant.

    A shame lol.

    #thereisalwayshope
    I can't even cap scrolls on BR with lotro points, i need to make 2 toons to get enough lp for 1
    Estarossa, Rank 15 rune-keeper, Ark

  12. #12
    Knives Out now mitigates all forms of incoming damage.
    does this mean 100% or just 80% of any damage type and not just melee? 80% still hurts quite hard with usual burglars morale pools, if the attacking enemy is a dangerous one.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Gründer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
    Deutsche Guides für nahezu alles, was Casuals interessieren könnte, gibts hier: http://gdfv.forumo.de/guides-f24/

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxSniperxx View Post

    Provoke still provides a chance to provide a daze, on top of the new buffs added. Pls fix since it is no longer supposed to daze.

    You can keep the buffs. I'll take the range/daze plz.
    - Pakeeza (120 Landroval)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    How about..... the 64-bit client?
    That's what I was thinking as well.
    There's some good in this world, and it is worth fighting for.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by xxSniperxx View Post

    Provoke still provides a chance to provide a daze, on top of the new buffs added. Pls fix since it is no longer supposed to daze.
    It is supposed to apply a gamble, always has when traited for it. (Daze gamble effect)
    lil 'obbit of Evernight...

    Chaos Unbound, Paradox, Silent Paths, Ascension, Bonehunters, Legion of the Valar

  16. #16
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxSniperxx View Post
    The latest fad in endgame burglaring, force taunt and aggro wipe, just for the lulz!
    You joke, but it sounds fun to me! In a fight like Filikul when the tank goes down, it would be helpful to have another class who can quickly grab aggro without dying while someone gets the tank back up.

    Gambler changes sound great!
    Arda Shrugged - Elendilstone & Landroval

  17. #17
    these are not the changes that burg needed.


    Burg now (assuming the provoke gamble mez is WAI, though it probably isn't because it isn't mentioned in the patch notes as a valid gamble), has more CC than all other classes combined, more DPS than champion, and more utility than loremaster, all at the same time.



    What the old burglar needed most was a number boosts:

    -boost the base damage,
    -boost the durations and values of outdated debuffs/buffs (glee, blue line buffs/debuffs, gambles, trick removal skills, quite-a-snag, etc)
    -fix bugs with non-fuctioning debuffs (such as old provoke debuff).


    what we got now is some of that, but so much random stuff that burglar didn't need at all (AOE taunt? AOE DPS?) and which now makes burglar the unquestioned king of not only burst melee dps, but of CC, sustained dps, and debuffing as well... all while surviving better than any other non-tank class.

    At this point, we have to ask... what CANT a burglar do? Burgs will now be running into the old "OP wardens" territory of what happens when you give one class the ability to be good at a lot of things simultaneously.

    New META for raids probably will be having 2-3 burgs (one red, one yellow, one blue) now, never looking back at champ.

    This arms race needs to stop. You can't keep giving everyone everything they ask for and then some extra.




    enhance the characteristics that are UNIQUE to the class, instead of giving them the same things other classes have...





    ...right now every class seems to be on track to become one and the same.
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    Knives Out now mitigates all forms of incoming damage.
    does this mean 100% or just 80% of any damage type and not just melee? 80% still hurts quite hard with usual burglars morale pools, if the attacking enemy is a dangerous one.
    I would imagine its 80% for all damage types. Giving any class temporary immunity to even 1 form of damage would be really OP. 80% though is still pretty strong, it turns those 300k hits into 60k hits. True that's a large chunk of moral for a burg, but the healers only need to keep him alive until the tank can be rezzed and can regain control. I would much rather have the mobs going after a burg with a strong defensive cool down then the squishy healers.

  19. #19
    I'm not following this confusion around the provoke gamble; since the trait tree's were introduced Provoke has always provided a Gamble which causes a Daze effect if you trait Double down.

    The fact a mob has no immunity to a follow up of the provoke gamble has been discussed on and off over the years as being fairly OP in some situations.

    But don't get your wires crossed, Provoke is WAI to Gamble Daze a target just as Diversion applies a Gamble debuff with double down traited.
    lil 'obbit of Evernight...

    Chaos Unbound, Paradox, Silent Paths, Ascension, Bonehunters, Legion of the Valar

  20. #20
    Join Date
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    Lore-master Pet fix? Aggro?
    It is logical, in view of the times in which we live. But to be logical is not to be right, and nothing on God's earth could ever make it right!
    - Judge Dan Haywood

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by LordOfTheSquids View Post
    Beorning:
    ...
    Cool stuff. Glad to see a few more bug fixes.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordOfTheSquids View Post
    Burglar:
    ...
    So on the whole, I believe these changes aren't bad. There are a few issues that I found though:
    • Mischievous Glee/Delight HoT is not working properly:
      • When Mischievous Glee/Delight is used while traiting Self Adulation at any tier, the HoT given is "DNT - Mischevious (sic) Glee HoT". It lasts 27s baseline for Glee, and 15s baseline for Delight, seemingly regardless of how far you trait Self Adulation. It doesn't state the heal magnitude or frequency, only giving the (misspelled) name and the duration.
    • Clever Retort is still woefully underwhelming when it comes to the magnitudes of its effects:
      • The bleed (Enrage cashout) on my Burg is less than 5k every 5s for 15s. Basically, if you remove a trick, you only deal 15k damage at most.
      • The Power restore (Dust cashout) is fine. It restores ~3k for me.
      • The heal (Disable cashout) heals for just over 5k in a single tick.
    • Cunning Attack crits and devs apply their proper version as well as the non-crit version of the bleed at the same time. Not sure if this is WAI, but I doubt it is. Also, all tiers of the Cunning Attack bleed seem very underwhelming considering the incredibly heavy nerf to their durations.
    • Provoke crit buff doesn't work. It provides an empty buff called "Provocateur" that has no information other than a 10s duration. It does not increase Critical Chance in the character panel while active. The defensive effect, "Roll With It", is working perfectly fine.
    • Double-Edged Strike and Flashing Blades are full AoE, not frontals, and they doesn't require a target to use.
      • I believe this is an issue because it means we won't be able to easily hit a moving target with these skills. Since they no longer require a target, they can be used with nothing in range, thus wasting the skill. This would be especially annoying on Isvitha (Anvil first boss) where the boss gets kited when people have the eye, especially if it has the same issue that Champ AOE has, where it won't hit from the proper range and you have to stand inside of the boss to actually land hits with the skills.
    • Debuffing Gamble is still additive with enemy mastery, not multiplicative, despite having the magnitude nerfed by ~70% at max tier, along with no longer being able to guarantee a sustainable max tier debuff since we can't upgrade gamble tiers anymore.
    • Hedge Your Bet "green" gamble tooltips are all named t1, but all still have proper functionality.
      • I also feel obligated to say that giving the Burg a percentage morale return is a terrible idea. It is part of the issue with Cappies being so broken, and having this crutch adopted by another class feels very short-sighted and like a lazy tack-on. Especially considering this one stacks with Revealing Mark. If it was a (small) flat morale return then it'd be fine, but a percentage-based one is just bad design.
    • Knives Out force taunt is just kind of ridiculous and unnecessary. What is the point of including it, and in the DPS line at that? If any line gets a taunt, it should be blue/yellow since a straight DPS line should not have support-type skills (including off-tank skills).


    TL;DR: get rid of the AoE crit chains, the Force-Taunt on Knives Out, buff Clever Retort effects, increase Cunning Attack duration, change Heal Gamble from percentage to fixed-value heal, make debuffing gamble multiplicative since it received a very unwarranted nerf, and fix Provoke effects.
    Last edited by ColMcStacky; Apr 10 2019 at 06:41 PM.

  22. #22
    Very nice job overall Vastin, I'd like to point some things out (though some might already have some fixes on the way):

    - there are still some skills/effects which I think have not been properly scaled: Reveal Weakness secondary debuffs, the heals from Relish Battle and Bob and Weave, Counter Defence
    - Cash Out Payout heal from Hedge your Bet is pretty negligible
    - I assume the new Debuffing Gamble works multiplicatively and not additively like the old one, otherwise it would still be kind of useless
    - Evades do not properly provide a critical response in gambler

    That is all I could notice. Also I have a couple of comments:

    - provoke's endless mezz has been nerfed, deservedly so. Basically by the fact that we cannot use Gambler's Strike to refresh it, even if the gamble didn't go through in the first place, which I believe makes it much better than live (better meaning worse, but more fair)
    - I like the new flavour given to knives out but I do not see the point in that kind of effect being gated in red line. It kind of feels like it belongs in blue line

    My 2 cents

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
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    12
    Bro, what about that heavy armor mathom-hunter gear from the gift boxes that Beorning's can't even access until really high lvl D:
    I've had this problem and it needs to be fixed soon please. If not here, then in a quick hot fix or whatnot idk.

  24. #24
    Thank you for ignoring cappy and rk.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Naranor View Post
    Thank you for ignoring cappy and rk.

    ./popcorns

    "Let's make all the classes OP!"

    ... so none of them are.

 

 
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