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  1. #1

    Two-Manning 3-man Instances with hunter

    I'm 120 and run a lot with my buddy who is a 120 hunter... we are both fully embers geared (skarhald gear). I run blue/yellow, and he runs a mobile hunter (blue line) so he can kite when needed. We are trying to see how much of the instance/skirmish content we can 2 man. We don't really care about rewards, because we're just looking for the challenge of doing things two-man. That said, of course gear rewards are a nice bonus. It does seem stupid that a lot of these instances on T1 only give relics as a reward. Seems like relics need an update, but that's another topic. I'm trying to get a discussion going about loremaster synergy with a hunter, using pets to best advantage, and other playstyle tips.

    1.) Pets -

    a. I've been trying to use my bear as a tank for bosses, but we really have to give him a long time to build aggro before the hunter open up dps or he pulls him off. I do have top-tier honey and oats, and run blue / yellow line so I can get his dps/health up as far as I can. I can't figure out anything else that would give him more aggro. I don't really ever use catmint, and maybe I'm missing out. It just doesn't seem like a little buff that only lasts 12 seconds is worth trying to manage. Outside of bosses, I run the lynx most of the time because I really like the induction reduction. I feel like it lets me do more. I suppose I have thought about running eagle for the fear and rez if we happened to pull too much and wipe, but haven't really tried it.

    b. I see people talking about pet-switching to get multiple debuffs on a boss, but I don't think this is worth the lack of a tank. That said, my buddy's hunter build is a mobile hunter (blue line) so he can kite pretty well. Some bosses we end up just letting him kite tank and it works just fine.

    c. Fellowship Friend buff - I can't seem to find a list of what buffs are actually applied to the fellowship upon crits. Anyone know for sure?

    1.) Skills -

    a. Is it worth the time to wind-lore a boss if he has no adds? It's only 1% more damage. I guess it's a quick cast.

    b. Is inner flame worth the points? I tried it at lower level and felt like it was worthless, but haven't tried it since I hit 120. I felt like it just took too long for a small heal and small buff.

    c. Storm-Lore - as you put points into it, it says you get more lightning damage. Is that just on that skill or all lightning-type damage?

    d. Frost-Lore - This is certainly situational, but are there really that many bosses or tough fights that do a lot of tactical damage? I'm not sure how to tell when a boss is tactical vs just ranged physical.

    e. Ancient Master - being able to debuff 6 mobs at once seems nice, but you can just spread it with wind-lore. Am I missing something? I'm not able to get this high in the tree and be blue-line, so it would have to be amazing to get me to switch lines. I can get pretty much everything else I need much lower in the tree, and then I get sick-em from blue line which is an amazing life saver skill.

    f. My skills comments:

    - Sick em - arguably best skill the LM has (so I have to be blue line)
    - Lightning-Storm - by far my favorite dps skill. Sure it has a longer cooldown, but life-saver when you get mobbed. Careful pulling everythiing to yourself though if you don't kill it. Also love lighting the ground on fire, but don't usually have enough points to put into Fierce Lightning to get that.
    - Storm-Lore - more lightning dmg to all skills. one (or two) points to get an extra AOE stun is nice.
    - Fire-Lore - must have - even if just for boss fights, being able to drop the dps of a mob my a bunch is huge. putting points into playing with fire lets you fire-lore, then hit a ranged mob with a lightning strike and forget about him for a bit (if your mez is already in use elsewhere).
    - Wild-Fire and Chill Wind - These are the skills that let wind-lore spread your fire-lore or frost-lore debuffs. I think it's great for the melee debuff, but I don't see putting so many points into a tactical debuff.
    - Ancient Craft - love it. Wish the cooldown was shorter, but still love it. I guess I don't really have a handle on how much I'm helping, but it seems like stuff dies faster. I have it maxxed on my 1st age legacy.
    - ring of fire is so awesome, but I can't get that and hardly anything from the yellow line. So it's choose ring of fire or more debuffs. Situational for sure.
    - slow-burn - gives + to pulses of burning embers. I like this for boss fights because what little dps I'm able to do, at least it's good to have a DOT tick longer.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper33 View Post
    I don't really ever use catmint, and maybe I'm missing out. It just doesn't seem like a little buff that only lasts 12 seconds is worth trying to manage.

    c. Fellowship Friend buff - I can't seem to find a list of what buffs are actually applied to the fellowship upon crits. Anyone know for sure?

    1.) Skills -

    a. Is it worth the time to wind-lore a boss if he has no adds? It's only 1% more damage. I guess it's a quick cast.

    b. Is inner flame worth the points? I tried it at lower level and felt like it was worthless, but haven't tried it since I hit 120. I felt like it just took too long for a small heal and small buff.

    c. Storm-Lore - as you put points into it, it says you get more lightning damage. Is that just on that skill or all lightning-type damage?

    d. Frost-Lore - This is certainly situational, but are there really that many bosses or tough fights that do a lot of tactical damage? I'm not sure how to tell when a boss is tactical vs just ranged physical.

    e. Ancient Master - being able to debuff 6 mobs at once seems nice, but you can just spread it with wind-lore. Am I missing something? I'm not able to get this high in the tree and be blue-line, so it would have to be amazing to get me to switch lines. I can get pretty much everything else I need much lower in the tree, and then I get sick-em from blue line which is an amazing life saver skill.

    f. My skills comments:

    - Sick em - arguably best skill the LM has (so I have to be blue line)
    - Lightning-Storm - by far my favorite dps skill. Sure it has a longer cooldown, but life-saver when you get mobbed. Careful pulling everythiing to yourself though if you don't kill it. Also love lighting the ground on fire, but don't usually have enough points to put into Fierce Lightning to get that.
    - Storm-Lore - more lightning dmg to all skills. one (or two) points to get an extra AOE stun is nice.
    - Fire-Lore - must have - even if just for boss fights, being able to drop the dps of a mob my a bunch is huge. putting points into playing with fire lets you fire-lore, then hit a ranged mob with a lightning strike and forget about him for a bit (if your mez is already in use elsewhere).
    - Wild-Fire and Chill Wind - These are the skills that let wind-lore spread your fire-lore or frost-lore debuffs. I think it's great for the melee debuff, but I don't see putting so many points into a tactical debuff.
    - Ancient Craft - love it. Wish the cooldown was shorter, but still love it. I guess I don't really have a handle on how much I'm helping, but it seems like stuff dies faster. I have it maxxed on my 1st age legacy.
    - ring of fire is so awesome, but I can't get that and hardly anything from the yellow line. So it's choose ring of fire or more debuffs. Situational for sure.
    - slow-burn - gives + to pulses of burning embers. I like this for boss fights because what little dps I'm able to do, at least it's good to have a DOT tick longer.
    Try catmint with Sic'em mobbing a boss.

    I think the FF buffs are described in buffs that show up when your pets crit. They look like the Catmint icon, IIRC. Lots of blue buffs show up when I use Sic'em. If you press 'h' while your mouse cursor is over a mob, a name box will show up that you can click to easily return to that target. Might work to sticky the buff tooltips, too. Haven't tried.

    I think the Combat Analysis plugin will tell you which types of damage you are doing and taking (as well as healing info), so it might help you determine when Frost-lore is important.

    I think you're pretty much right on about most skills. I only ever trait 1 level in Storm-lore, just to have the aoe stun, but additional points do boost all lightning damage. I haven't used Inner Flame in years. The Wind-lore damage boost is nice, but not a huge priority compared to refreshing/spreading Lore debuffs.

    ---

    In fellowship/raid content, LM generally wants to be yellow/blue to maximize our support role to the group. Using catmint before telling the raven to attack doubles the fire mitigation debuff of Benediction to -20%, which is a huge boost in group dps (fire RKs and hunters using fire oil). With 91 points we can trait deep yellow and get the +2.5% mit boost in blue, catmint, and the induction reductions (both -15% and -9% in blue and -15% in yellow). Bear and Boggie are the other pets to rotate in to boost group dps, but I'm guessing you've read about that already. There is a Youtube content creator named Ghynghyn who has great videos with LM tips (as well as all other classes).

    Ancient Master with the last yellow bonus (on left) makes Fire- and Frost-lore affect up to 10 targets, which is great at the start of big pulls.

    Bane Flare into Ancient Craft into Lightning Storm is a favorite "get out of jail free" card when I do stoopid pulls (sometimes on purpose).
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
    -Faramir

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Somewhere in Middle-earth
    Posts
    989
    This will be probably long post, let´s get started:

    1) pets

    a) bear: taunt of bear copies the highest aggro on the mob. If no ones does damage/heals the dd player, there is no aggro build up on the mob and the bear will lose aggro after expiration of force taunt (5s).

    So, if you can use CC on the mob, then: use stun first + slow, let the target run to you/your friend as close as possible and after that use the bear taunt. This way there will be enough dmg on the mob, so the bear can hold the aggro almost up to the end of life on the mob.

    If you are fighting bosses: you need to have a slow start. Again, you can let the hunter to do a burst dmg and taunt the boss when boss is near you, but there won´t be much aggro build up in comparison to the previous situation. Therefore, in the next minute, you (=both of you) need to watch your dps. Don´t do more dmg than it was done before bear taunt. Once to cd is almost away, start dps the boss, but don´t use the taunt immediately. Wait until the boss switches the aggro from bear to the hunter and then use it.


    b) if you need a bear as a tank, then obviously you can´t switch the pets in combat. It is done when there is no danger of wiping the whole group.


    c)
    raven: -7,5% incoming tactical damage
    bear: -5% incoming damage
    cats: +5% outgoing damage
    spirit: nothing (can´t crit)
    bog-guardian: +5% outgoing ranged damage, +5% outgoing ranged critical chance
    Eagle: restores power


    2) skills

    a) wind-lore: the buff stacks up to 3%. 3% more dmg means 3% less time fighting and less space for error. No game changer, but nice to have effect if trying to maxing out the dps of group/raid.

    b) inner flame: heal is still very weak, but the dmg buff is quite strong. Just check it out of combat, you can look at the number before buff and after, and then you can decide for yourself.

    c) storm-lore: If you are not sure, you can test it yourself: check the numbers before equiping this trait and then afterwards.

    d) frost-lore: now, here we are mixing few things, so let´s explain it a little bit more precise:

    Fire-lore and Frost-lore debuff the source of the damage. There are 3 sources in this game: melee, ranged, tactical. And then there is incoming part, which reduces incoming dmg on player, that´s physical and tactical. This is e.g. your armor and the stats physical damage reduction and tactical damage reduction.

    So, if the skill is marked as ranged, it doesn´t matter if it deals physical or tactical damage, you can´t debuff it with frost-lore because frost-lore debuffs only skills marked as tactical.
    Good example here is a hunter. Hunter has ranged skill which by default deal physical damage. But hunter can use fire/light oil and then he is dealing tactical damage, but the skills are still ranged, thus frost-lore can´t help you.

    Now, the question is how can you tell if the enemy is using ranged or tactical skill. The answer is by testing. In combat log you can see if the incoming damage is tactical. If it is, you can apply frost-lore and check the numbers once more and see if they were lowered.

    If you can spread fire- and frost-lore with wind-lore, then you can refresh these debuffs (only) with wind-lore and this way you have both debuffs permanently on the target and you don´t really need to care if you should or shouldn´t use frost-lore.


    e) wind-lore is spreading on 5 targets. If you invest 35 points in yellow, ancient master has 10 targets + quicker animations. So instead Fire-lore-> wind-lore or fire-lore->frost-lore->wind->lore you push ancient master before combat start and debuff the whole group immediately.



    Few tips:

    When I am running 3-man without tank, outside of bosses I am yellow/blue. The mobs die too quickly, so I prefer to focus on CC and debuffs.
    The bear is respawned after each mob death, so the bear taunt is reset and ready to use on the next one.
    I do the bosses blue/yellow, focusing bear-aggro management, debuffs and healing.
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik.
    English isn't my native language, sorry for mistakes.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Somewhere in Middle-earth
    Posts
    989
    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrDylan View Post
    Try catmint with Sic'em mobbing a boss.

    Catmint doesn´t work on Sic´em as far as I know.
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik.
    English isn't my native language, sorry for mistakes.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by Estelrandir View Post
    Catmint doesn´t work on Sic´em as far as I know.
    oops, must be FF buffs I see showing up...
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
    -Faramir

 

 

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