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  1. #1

    Why is there still no improvement about the scrolls issue/grind SSG ?

    Dear SSG,

    I read the LIs revamp woudn't come before 2020.

    In the meantime, the issue about the scrolls for the current LIs system remains really problematic, especially for NEW players reaching lvl120 for the first time or people interested in rolling ALTS or even players that enjoy playing multiple toons.

    It affects both casual and raiders, some people are not playing their alts (which is really a shame), or can't afford to try different builds....

    BECAUSE OF THE INSANE AMOUNT OF SCROLLS (and crystals) required to make the LIS relevant.

    So please don't make us wait until the revamp and do something.

    Make them available at the barterer at skarhald ! (what should have been done in the first place)

    Lower the prices at the skirmish camp !

    Or increase the droprate from the "new" instances" !

    Anything really.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
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    130
    Quote Originally Posted by Aymerik View Post
    Dear SSG,

    I read the LIs revamp woudn't come before 2020.

    In the meantime, the issue about the scrolls for the current LIs system remains really problematic, especially for NEW players reaching lvl120 for the first time or people interested in rolling ALTS or even players that enjoy playing multiple toons.

    It affects both casual and raiders, some people are not playing their alts (which is really a shame), or can't afford to try different builds....

    BECAUSE OF THE INSANE AMOUNT OF SCROLLS (and crystals) required to make the LIS relevant.

    So please don't make us wait until the revamp and do something.

    Make them available at the barterer at skarhald ! (what should have been done in the first place)

    Lower the prices at the skirmish camp !

    Or increase the droprate from the "new" instances" !

    Anything really.
    It appears that SSG has not even understood yet that people need multiple hundreds of Empowerment Scrolls for each Legendary Item. They kept increasing the Attribute Levels every update but they removed Seregost Empowerment/Crystal drops with U23.

    Now, that they're removed Seregost as a farming method, there is no longer any endgame method to farm Empowerment Scrolls and the remaining methods are terrible, especially for newer players and most people don't even know about them because they're not things you'd normally do at Level 120 (like Throne raid or old Dailies).

    At this point, SSG's ignorance of this issue, which affects ALL PLAYERS, is ridicolous. People don't even want to play multiple chars anymore because they can not get enough Empowerment Scrolls. It leads me to believe that SSG has not yet understood how much this issue is affecting its players.

    They should just add a barterer in Skarhald that sells Empowerment Scrolls for 200-250 Embers of Enchantment and Crystals for 400-500 Embers of Enchantment. This is so easy to do and would instantly fix this issue that has been plaguing all players for 6 months now.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by aymerik View Post

    Make them available at the barterer at skarhald ! (what should have been done in the first place).
    yes

    Quote Originally Posted by aymerik View Post
    or increase the droprate from the "new" instances" !
    yes

    Some form of grind is part of an MMO, but it's really annoying when it becomes super obnoxious and monotone. If you want people to keep playing, you need to give them engaging and meaningful ways to progress their characters. Casuals and raiders alike.

    - Scroll/crystal drop should be increased in endgame content (+ feautured instance)
    - Ered Mithrin should have roving threats that drop Gift-giver's Brands (or a new currency) + daily quests
    - Craftable currency you can exchange for scrolls/crystals
    - Reputation/Allegiance rewards exchangeable for scrolls/crystals

    Now if this grind is necessary to not have actual p2w in the game, then I'm gonna pick the lesser evil. They would find another way to make money.
    Last edited by Daenirion; Mar 26 2019 at 10:52 AM.
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  4. #4
    You guys clearly haven't figured out yet that Mithril Coin sales of "legendary level unlocks" is a significant source of store sales. for both star-lits and scrolls

    They don't want to reduce the Imbue'd LI grind because they don't want to lose the profits.

    But yes, I refuse to play lvl 120 characters because of the grind, so I only play on Anor server now.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    911
    This is not ignorance. I am sure they are well aware it takes on the order of 20k LP ($200) to bypass the grind on a single LI, and there ARE people willing to pay at least part of that. They have taken deliberate steps to make sure the grind does not get any easier.

  6. #6
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    I literally asked Cordovan about this on his stream last friday and his answer was: 'I suggest you look at the producers letter to see our comments on it'

    It doesn't matter to them; they get free mithril coins for working for ssg, so they aren't in tune with our troubles. And none of the streamers will mention anything about it because they are so whipped by the SSG whip that they won't do anything to question them. Its really sad honestly.
    Death's Bane | Arkenstone | Endgame
    Mirage | Arkenstone | 75 Capped
    Mirage | Anor
    Meneldor Native

  7. #7
    I have a Hobbitish hunter, which I wanted to be ready as soon as he reached level 100.

    Getting the bow, was not that difficult. But then - scrolls, scrolls, crystals, scrolls. When I had all, he was already at level 110 or so. Then I had to do the same with the club. Only two days ago, I could add the last scroll. The crystals are still missing. This Hobbit is meanwhile at level 115.

    And that is not the most extreme case on the server. I have seen lots of players above level 100, with equipment that was fairly weak compared to their level. Weren't we promised, that we would obtain a unique and powerful item, after we finally have reached that threshold? It has turned into the opposite. This whole system requires a thorough overhaul, or the people will leave with frustration.


    Greetings, Polymachos
    Treufried, human Level 120 Lore Master, formerly from Maiar (DE), now on Belegaer
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Polymachos View Post
    I have a Hobbitish hunter, which I wanted to be ready as soon as he reached level 100.

    Getting the bow, was not that difficult. But then - scrolls, scrolls, crystals, scrolls. When I had all, he was already at level 110 or so. Then I had to do the same with the club. Only two days ago, I could add the last scroll. The crystals are still missing. This Hobbit is meanwhile at level 115.

    And that is not the most extreme case on the server. I have seen lots of players above level 100, with equipment that was fairly weak compared to their level. Weren't we promised, that we would obtain a unique and powerful item, after we finally have reached that threshold? It has turned into the opposite. This whole system requires a thorough overhaul, or the people will leave with frustration.


    Greetings, Polymachos
    Yes, we were promised such an item and some players were able to keep up the never ending demands and have that item(s). This weapon was supposed to grow with us but without the scrolls, crystals it never really did. I gave up on the scrolls a long time ago and was able to keep up with the crystals on my main characters due to the festivals. But since there is no catch ups none of my new characters will ever have more then free levels so why even level further alts. Due to this and several other reasons I have stopped playing, as you said, in frustration.
    I always thought I would at least play my main characters until the content would just be impossible but the price of u23, the revamp of blue hunter, the LM pet nerf and now the mini nerf were just to much to deal with. Their balancing act has left me basically without a fun class to play. I played through the Yule festival and plan returning for the other festivals but beyond that I will not be back this year.

  9. #9
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    I stuck some words down in an older thread:

    I have 13 character slots. Lifetime player.
    I have gotten 2 of my characters all the way to the Level Cap but I will not be taking any of the others to that cap.
    I'll give you three guesses about why that is (and the first 3 don't count).
    It's the grind for crystals and empowerment scrolls.
    Of course, I could just spend a ton of dough and buy Mithril coins. Ten MC gets you one crystal or scroll.
    I haven't done the math, but it isn't chump-change.

    I have done those daily quests in Minas Tirith so many times that my monitor has burn-in lines that match the map of MT.

    Someone please come up with a really brilliant idea about how to solve this conundrum.

    I don't really hate running quests to get rewards.
    I do really hate running the same quest over and over and over...

    Maybe there could be some kind of mega-deed that rewards you with crystals and scrolls as you complete segments and then a mega-reward of a pile of crystals when you complete the L100 final quest.

    I can't face the thought of taking another character through that crystal/scroll grind. And I won't pay the money to get them the easy way.
    I feel that if I pay the money I will be reinforcing a terrible concept.
    There is a line from an old Dylan tune...

    Now the bricks lay on Grand Street
    Where the neon madmen climb
    They all fall there so perfectly
    It all seems so well timed
    An’ here I sit so patiently
    Waiting to find out what price
    You have to pay to get out of
    Going through all these things twice

    Oh, Mama, can this really be the end
    To be stuck inside of Mobile
    With the Memphis blues again
    ............................ missed a putt.........................At a Dead & Co. show on a Mexican beach............ another Dead & Co. show at the same beach a year later
    ......................................................
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  10. #10
    I will be surprised if U24 doesn't have some kind of scroll/crystal daily grind. Since LI grind seems to be at the top of the list for so many players I don't think SSG can get away with not adding a new way to get scrolls/crystals.

    It doesn't matter to me personally since I am capped. But hey, scroll grind just means more gold for me.

    What I would like to see is a better FI cycle. Something like: 12-OD D&P, 6-Fornost Earth, 6-Annumias HV, 6-Sambrog, 3-School, 3-Iorbars Peak.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rimenuir View Post
    I literally asked Cordovan about this on his stream last friday and his answer was: 'I suggest you look at the producers letter to see our comments on it'

    Wow.

    Just...wow.

    I suppose such a dismissive attitude shouldn't be shocking anymore.

  12. #12
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    Aug 2013
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    Coins of Garik would be the best solution; I dont know a single person that doesn't already have 500+ of these on at least 1 character. They aren't being used as much as the devs predicted, and it would be something worthwhile to have drop from an instance. Make the conversion 6 coins per scroll, as you get 4 per chest with favored locks on the 3/6 mans and 3 with unfavored. It would allow more people to constantly run these instances and make the grind so much easier. I don't plan on leveling any more characters to 120 because of this, and SSG is now losing out on all the tomes of defense and attack tomes and solvents I'd be buying for 5 or 6 raid ready toons.
    Death's Bane | Arkenstone | Endgame
    Mirage | Arkenstone | 75 Capped
    Mirage | Anor
    Meneldor Native

  13. #13
    Any change that reduces the grind would be welcome and there are more than enough suggestions in the forums on what could be done - from old content to new content and
    barter options.

    I imbued my main's LIs in late 2015. I was prepared, had scrolls, crystals and runes. Always kept up with the grind, did dailies, FIs and old CoS. Bought scrolls on AH when I had enough. This is one toon with one set of maxed out LIs. There's no way I'm doing it all again, especially now that our options are limited. My lvl 115 shall stay in Erebor forever and pester dwarves for beer.
    Roaming Gladden since 2013

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Aymerik View Post
    Dear SSG,

    I read the LIs revamp woudn't come before 2020.

    In the meantime, the issue about the scrolls for the current LIs system remains really problematic, especially for NEW players reaching lvl120 for the first time or people interested in rolling ALTS or even players that enjoy playing multiple toons.

    It affects both casual and raiders, some people are not playing their alts (which is really a shame), or can't afford to try different builds....

    BECAUSE OF THE INSANE AMOUNT OF SCROLLS (and crystals) required to make the LIS relevant.

    So please don't make us wait until the revamp and do something....

    Anything really.


    You are, of course, correct.

    Yet sadly, the lack of any action by the Devs concerning LIs is NOT due to "ignorance". They know exactly what they have in mind.

    Apparently they have made a conscience decision that the money they make off of some players PAYING to avoid the enormous grind (which the Devs continue to make worse), is worth the trade-off of the many players who quit the game due to that same horrid grind.

    Incredibly frustrating.

  15. #15
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    Dec 1969
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    1,345
    Quote Originally Posted by Narthalion View Post

    I suppose such a dismissive attitude shouldn't be shocking anymore.
    Nah, what shouldn't be shocking is that people will read negativity into any comment.
    People will believe what they want to believe. It is amazing that devs even talk to people at all.

    MAWorking had the highest post count on the pre-beta LOTRO forums. He was truly an icon and clearly, hasn't changed a bit. -Meghan/aka Patience

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MAWorking View Post
    Nah, what shouldn't be shocking is that people will read negativity into any comment.
    People will believe what they want to believe. It is amazing that devs even talk to people at all.

    Yeah, it's not like he gets paid to do it.

    Oh..wait...


    But, since you bring it up, and seem upset with the "negativity" so many have regarding ILs...what would you suggest is the "positive" attitude we should all have concerning the lack of response/action regarding them?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rimenuir View Post
    I literally asked Cordovan about this on his stream last friday and his answer was: 'I suggest you look at the producers letter to see our comments on it'
    I just looked at the letter. The only time the word "Legendary" shows up is in regards to the legendary Servers.
    Immigrant from the City of Paragon. We are heroes. This is what we do.

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seschat View Post
    I just looked at the letter. The only time the word "Legendary" shows up is in regards to the legendary Servers.
    You have to dig through the comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Clearly there is a LOT of interest in additional information about Legendary Items. We'll have to see what we can say on the subject.
    It's funny how now it's clear that there is a lot of interest in the Legendary Items when I see a thread every week on the matter and have been seeing complaints for years now. The fact that they didn't have a gameplan to discuss LI's at all in the producer's letter is insulting to people who put time into this game. And this comment showed SSG is pretty willfully ignorant on the LI system and they had no plans until the backlash from the producer's letter showed how pissed off the community was that it's being ignored.

    Two days later Severlin commented on the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post

    Yes to an LI revamp, in due time. We want to revamp the system, and we want to make sure players feel their progression is represented in the new system. This isn’t something we can rush; this touches so many class balance topics that it is something we need a lot of time to design, implement, and gather test server feedback. That means I don’t want to promise it for this year, as it could creep into 2020.


    Sev~
    SSG does know what they are doing when it comes to LI, but only to a certain degree. They know it's probably one of their bigger money makers. I don't doubt this, because I myself have thought about using mithril coins to get an alt raid ready, and I'm very much against pay to progress systems.

    LI's are probably also one of the top reasons people leave this game. SSG either ignores this or doesn't understand what to do about this. But the fact they haven't made LI's a priority for 2019 boggles my mind. Instead, we are getting a virtue revamp which not many want and it's not something the game needs at this time.

    And I really wouldn't try to get information out of Cordovan. I wouldn't doubt it's different on the DDO side of things, but with Lotro his thoughts are generally incorrect, rumors, misinformed, or he shows disregard for this community. Can't blame him since people around here are more vocal about how broken this game is than ever before. But you are better off asking questions here and usually someone in the community will dig.

  19. #19
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    Mar 2007
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    I agree with OP. We need a temp fix asap. The best thing would be about improving drop rates and making them available in more endgame places. They'd also make a good gold sync right now so they could try and start putting the economy of the game in a better place to ready the game for the next round of crafting.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    911
    Devs might be mum on the details and we might be 'reading to much negativity into their comments'.

    But the actions speak for themselves.
    U23:
    Crystal/Scroll gap extended twice.
    No new venues to obtain crystals/scrolls added.
    An existing popular venue to obtain them removed.

    Explain how this merits any sort of positive reaction?

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Aymerik View Post
    Why is there still no improvement about the scrolls issue/grind SSG ?
    I would imagine it has something to do with cash flow... who really knows.

  22. #22
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    My sugestion was, that at any given time there should be max of 5 levels of legacy to unlock at cap. For example now, when we have max level 79, we should get level 74 atomatically (rest we unlock via empowerement scrolls). When next time (with update) is max level of legacy increased to 89 we get 84 etc. This lets alts and new characters to catch-up.


    Btw. I am still unsure, that devs know what is going on. When i make new imbued legendary item - level of each legacy is unlocked at ~ 35 (not sure), max is 79, we have 7 legacies. That means, we need ~305 scrolls of empowerment for maximizing one item ! (and i am not talking about crystals). Usually one character has 2 spec, that means that character needs 4 legendary items. Do the math. (I know we often dont need all 7 legacies, or some legacies can be left at level 50, but still..)

    Luckily for wardens, they have like three usable legacies for each LI

    Commander Liliam - the Warden
    Evernight

  23. #23
    Recently i figured out that they removed the animation for putting legacys on your LI, thats a start.

    They also could increase the value of one Anfalals scroll to 2, so you're down to half of the grind. They have thousands of possibilities to reduce the grind. Thats simply some figures in the code of the game, easy to do.

    One reason why the move this to 2020 are maybe the Legendary Servers since they are really well visited, and all of the people have to do the grind with LIs without twinks.

  24. #24
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    Up next:
    All virtues will become relevant and contribute something.

    20 virtues, 20 levels and around half to them in slayer deeds with more than 100 kills (optimistic average). Does this ring a bell?

    The real problem is that LOTRO cannot let go of any of its past grind, requirements or even change the price of ancient content.
    The only real exception was the reduction of slayer deeds, but this is just a drop in the ocean of deeds.
    Last edited by thinx; Mar 27 2019 at 07:09 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narthalion View Post
    Yeah, it's not like he gets paid to do it.

    Oh..wait...


    But, since you bring it up, and seem upset with the "negativity" so many have regarding ILs...what would you suggest is the "positive" attitude we should all have concerning the lack of response/action regarding them?
    To illustrate the difference between negative and positive attitudes toward the LI grinds....

    Negative:

    I hate the endless LI grind.


    Positive:

    I positively hate the endless LI grind.

    The Lag is so bad I saw Sara Oakheart outrun someone - kickman77

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