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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Cornwall, UK
    Posts
    1,417
    I hope to God that some devs are reading this thread because they really screwed this class over far too hard. Ok, so things might be balanced out at mid levels and fine and top levels, but they totally wrecked low levels. It is still playable, but not fun to level and that means who is going to want to go through that awful funless grind to level a new Minnie up to the point where it is a decent play again?

    I was considering building a new Minnie healer for some grouping, but am reconsidering now as I really don't fancy the struggle it is going to be to level a character up to level 40-50. I am a lotro addict of 9 years exerience and if the state of the class it is putting me off from building one, what is it doing for new players?

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    700
    Have they seen how fast some of the other classes kill at low levels?

    How about trying a Guardian. They are insane at lower levels with bugged skills.
    Certain Loremaster pets also need adjusting down at lower levels and increasing at higher levels, they can solo everything with little or no input from the LM.

    1-30 level Minstrels needs a slight buff now. 30+ is fine.

    If you bore players in the early levels they may just give up and move on. Likewise if it is too easy also.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    .....................
    The level 120 is king on the landscape, still. Oft times one shotting normal morale npcs. Going into Skarhald resources instance and completing them in ten minutes, often less. Soloing recent skirmishes 120 duo T3 with no problem. Just for challenges I, at times solo 3 player T1 End game instances. Jeepers! I lasted 15 minutes in the Barrow Downs skirm and killed the I'll Omen. How can that not be OP?

    This above is the reality of the red line Minstrel. It isn't a bragging affair, its the truth of the matter. Any Minstrel can do this. Minstrel does have limitations and knowing where this line is helps. Recent changes to the Minstrel class has enabled it to do things not previously possible. Story of Courage is a main contributor to this new Minstrel. ....................
    I'm a LOTRO ViP for 6 months, started with a Min, still topping off DPS gear for him, I agree fully.

    Comparing to a hunter, the Min's AOE's are incredible, 4 of 7 abilities in my red line rotation are AOE, while a Hunter will easily out-DPS a min on single target, we vaporize mobs....and I have yet to see a raid boss without adds.

    I'm slamming EM dailies solo, including scourges, in 10-15 minutes.

    The problem is gear, it takes months to get 370+ gear, as well as Legacies/crystals for 1rst age's, I often join pugs and get complaints if I can't heal.

    I'm hoping the Dev promises to level off classes in the next update include heal or mitigation abilities for the other classes, I'm sick of other player's assumptions that Min's are strictly healers, they're wrong....a DPS Min's AOE's make them outstanding in raids.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    23
    Sadly you'll find when it comes to raids, particularly recently, AoE is far less important as the key tends to be burning the main boss and on trash pulls people are often asked to go for a single target build as well to prevent waking mezzed enemies. Thus whilst we have some nice AoE's they also have fairly long cooldowns (e.g. they'r'e not nearly as spammable as champs for example) and our single target damage over a sustained period of time is very low compared to pretty much all other classes, so whilst AoEing runekeepers and champs can also keep up good sustained dps on the boss.

    Thats not to say we dont still crush landscape at cap making soloing EM dailies very easy, etc but because the cap on our single target damage is so cooldown reliant after our initial burst window we spend a while waiting for our other skills just using ballads and piercing cry whilst other classes are upkeeping the same level of damage throughout. This is the reason why minis arent taken as main group DPS in higher tiered content (not saying it cant work in t1s and 3 mans, etc just why they arent seen in raids), its not something im particularly bothered about cos im fine being a healbot but just explaining the issues of mini dps in raids currently.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombolllo View Post
    Sadly you'll find when it comes to raids, particularly recently, AoE is far less important as the key tends to be burning the main boss and on trash pulls people are often asked to go for a single target build as well to prevent waking mezzed enemies. Thus whilst we have some nice AoE's they also have fairly long cooldowns (e.g. they'r'e not nearly as spammable as champs for example) and our single target damage over a sustained period of time is very low compared to pretty much all other classes, so whilst AoEing runekeepers and champs can also keep up good sustained dps on the boss.

    Thats not to say we dont still crush landscape at cap making soloing EM dailies very easy, etc but because the cap on our single target damage is so cooldown reliant after our initial burst window we spend a while waiting for our other skills just using ballads and piercing cry whilst other classes are upkeeping the same level of damage throughout. This is the reason why minis arent taken as main group DPS in higher tiered content (not saying it cant work in t1s and 3 mans, etc just why they arent seen in raids), its not something im particularly bothered about cos im fine being a healbot but just explaining the issues of mini dps in raids currently.
    Name a raid boss where adds are mezzed/CC'd.

    Two of the four AOE's have a 10 sec CD, the other 2 have 30 secs, each AOE averages between 55K and 45K damage not including buffs/crits, a wave of adds @ 200K hp each is gone in 2 to 4 hits, leaving higher single target DPS the luxury of staying on boss, as do I, while taking out adds.

    Also, the last update to min's included increased DPS, namely to ballads @ +40% as well as some light damage increase.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Bogglie View Post
    Name a raid boss where adds are mezzed/CC'd.
    note how they said that in trash pulls, adds are often CC'd

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogglie View Post
    a wave of adds @ 200K hp each is gone in 2 to 4 hits,
    That would work if the adds had only 200k moral, they dont. In T1 anvil the adds before the first boss have mostly 11 or 12 million moral. There are only one or two type of adds with in the whole raid with less then 10 million moral.


    Minies simply cannot do enough single target DPS to compete with a hunter and they cannot do enough AOE dps to compete with a RK in raid settings

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by mkcraft27 View Post
    note how they said that in trash pulls, adds are often CC'd
    Right, use caution with enrage timers on adds, min single target just won't do!

    Quote Originally Posted by mkcraft27 View Post
    That would work if the adds had only 200k moral, they dont. In T1 anvil the adds before the first boss have mostly 11 or 12 million moral. There are only one or two type of adds with in the whole raid with less then 10 million moral.


    Minies simply cannot do enough single target DPS to compete with a hunter and they cannot do enough AOE dps to compete with a RK in raid settings
    Or, in Anvil (first boss), have the mins go after the two drakes with the off-tank while he kites them from boss, just sayin'.

    20K or 200 mil, doesn't matter if a min has at least two NPC's in range he'll out-DPS a hunter.

    Now, let's talk an instance like CoT or TK, where your back's against a wall with a room full of adds....You have five 1.8 mil HP Dwarfs swamping your group in a hall...who's doing more DPS....a single target like a Hunter, or, a Minstrel hitting upwards of 8 at a time / 70K per hit?

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    1,414
    Quote Originally Posted by Happychappy View Post
    There is no reason why a Red minstrel should be any less dps than a Blue Hunter.

    Both are mobile dps with some healing but the Hunter also has better mitigations.

    A level 50+ mini wont notice a big difference, its the lower levels that i think were a little over nerfed. Just needs a slight tweak to the very lower levels imo.
    This 100%
    Azulia|Azabella|Azzaya|Izarah| Azza|

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    33
    [QUOTE=elfincat;7921391]
    Quote Originally Posted by Valakircka View Post
    as i have written in the other thread about minstrel nerf,
    i stonglly believe that this is a great move by the company!!!
    every class has a rolle! if you roll a mistrell you must learn to heal!
    not just run to max lvl !
    my lvl 110 minstrel has no problem at all![/QUOTE

    Learning to heal is all fine and good but you still have to level up and that's why people don't like the DPS nerf. I think that should be plainly obvious.

    Learning to heal btw is the easy part, most mini players have that mastered within the first 20 levels. The tedious boring part is leveling up 120 levels especially when it takes your mini twice as long to kill landscape mobs as other classes. It makes people not want to put in the effort.

    Also, running to max is what some people prefer to do in game so let's not forget about those folks. It's very selfish to just think of yourself or to only think about people who only do group stuff.
    With all due respect, I have to disagree with you. Valakircka is right on point. There was a point in time when no one leveled a mini unless you wanted to heal. I am not certain how you learn to heal on the mini in the first 20 levels when you don't have but a couple of healing skills and very few class trait points. I have 4 minstrels (that I play), 2 at 120, one at 116 and another at level cap on the Legendary Server and all of them have NO issue at all with dps. You may want to review your stats and legacies if you are struggling on landscape content or talk to a seasoned Mini in your kinship. Most people are more than happy to share how they approach their class and what has worked or not worked for them.

    We should all pay attention to the primary role of a class when we roll a new character. If someone rolls a healing class you can expect to do less damage than a true dps class. ( We don't tank as well as tanking classes, either ) It goes with the territory.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by Enikuo View Post
    First of all, I wasn't the OP, I just responded to them. Secondly, you weren't offering help - you were setting a trap. If it annoys you that I didn't walk into your trap, good. If you want people like me to "stop ruining your chosen main class," then you should be happy when we quit YOUR game, not whining that we don't take you're so-called help.
    A trap? It sounded like genuine offer of help. It IS difficult to help someone without enough information.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by MistyMountains View Post
    This 100%
    1. Hunter is a PURE dps class. It is the only role they fill. Odd as it may seem, they don't even have a healing spec available to them! *gasp*
    2. The Minstrel's PRIMARY role is healing as I am sure you noticed in the character creation screen. (Role: Healer)

 

 
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