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  1. #1

    A new Minstrel DPS nerfing thread

    My mini is LV 116 and the last time I played her was maybe 3 months ago and she was doing just fine in the Iron Hills. The nerf to minis is so bad that she was owned and killed by a level 112 creature. I glanced through some other threads on the extreme nerf and I was wondering playing a mini makes sense anymore if you just want to level and do solo stuff. You can't solo level on a mini at any rate as I just discovered much to my dismay. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    39
    Disgusting! Cry of the Wizard was fricken NERFFED!!!!

  3. #3
    Please consider rolling back the dps nerf. I'm only level 30 but it has become a slog now. You could up the healing debuff in the dps stance to balance stuff out. I like the healing but to level the dps spec was a godsend. Please reconsider ;D

  4. #4
    I just came back after a break and it was taking my level 44 mini way too long to take down a level 37 bear in Evendim for leveling to be tolerable. Oh, I'm sure I could still level her, but I in no way want to. It would just be a chore.

    There is so much content to do solo and nerfing what should be a questing/leveling trait line for the class is just dumb, especially in a game as old as LotRO. They were better off being overpowered.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Enikuo View Post
    I just came back after a break and it was taking my level 44 mini way too long to take down a level 37 bear in Evendim for leveling to be tolerable. Oh, I'm sure I could still level her, but I in no way want to. It would just be a chore.

    There is so much content to do solo and nerfing what should be a questing/leveling trait line for the class is just dumb, especially in a game as old as LotRO. They were better off being overpowered.
    How about a Screen shot of your character page. Maybe an item list of your gear, jewelry. Perhaps other Minstrels can offer advice from what you show.
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  6. #6
    While the dps on low levels was decreased, it's not as bad as some people describe. My level 50 Minstrel now quests in Angmar and she can take down 3 elite mobs at once without much issue. Solo enemies usually die after two-three spells: Piercing Cry, Call of Fate, Call of Orome, finish with a ballad if needed.

    It's all about gear, buffs and spells/abilities usage and rotation. If one wants to solo well, he or she needs to gear up and use consumables. It is true for any class, by the way.

    Crafted gear is far superior to almost any items one can find in drops or receive from quests. If you can't or don't want to have multiple characters for crafting purpouse, joing a good guild and ask for help. Usually people can make some good items.

    I would also suggest making minstrel a historian(scholar, farmer, weaponsmith) and keep the proffesions up to the content you do. Battle scrolls and potions help greatly. Make the second character a tinkerer for ore gathering, jewelry and cook. Make the third one an explorer for tailoring and forester (you don't even need to go out with this toon, can just use for crafting).

    Believe me, a well geared and fed hobbit perfoms much better then the one who wears 20 levels older shabby dress.

  7. #7
    Update: I switched to yellow line and use dissonance and also got a few pieces of the new lv 120 non-instance gear and that did make a nice difference. It does still take a lot longer than necessary to kill landscape critters and NPCs but I am far better off now than when I first posted this thread. I wouldn't choose to roll up a mini now but at least I can keep playing my existing mini alt without too much trouble. I also tried yellow line for healing in 3 man skirms tier 3 for the Ill Omens and it wasn't too bad. I am far from a great healer but if I can keep my friends up while they tank and DPS then that is good enough for me.

    IMO there isn't really a challenge to taking a long time killing a landscape mob and it's boring lol. I hope the devs consider re-balancing the mini again to add back some fire power. If nothing else let us kill landscape mobs as fast as everyone else pls

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    L.A.
    Posts
    829
    as i have written in the other thread about minstrel nerf,
    i stonglly believe that this is a great move by the company!!!
    every class has a rolle! if you roll a mistrell you must learn to heal!
    not just run to max lvl !
    my lvl 110 minstrel has no problem at all!
    lotr enthousiast since 1996, 12 years lotro player, lifetimer, Loyal member of the Spartans Kinship, now in Evernight imigrants from Eldar

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Valakircka;7921388]as i have written in the other thread about minstrel nerf,
    i stonglly believe that this is a great move by the company!!!
    every class has a rolle! if you roll a mistrell you must learn to heal!
    not just run to max lvl !
    my lvl 110 minstrel has no problem at all![/QUOTE

    Learning to heal is all fine and good but you still have to level up and that's why people don't like the DPS nerf. I think that should be plainly obvious.

    Learning to heal btw is the easy part, most mini players have that mastered within the first 20 levels. The tedious boring part is leveling up 120 levels especially when it takes your mini twice as long to kill landscape mobs as other classes. It makes people not want to put in the effort.

    Also, running to max is what some people prefer to do in game so let's not forget about those folks. It's very selfish to just think of yourself or to only think about people who only do group stuff.

  10. #10
    There is no reason why a Red minstrel should be any less dps than a Blue Hunter.

    Both are mobile dps with some healing but the Hunter also has better mitigations.

    A level 50+ mini wont notice a big difference, its the lower levels that i think were a little over nerfed. Just needs a slight tweak to the very lower levels imo.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    How about a Screen shot of your character page. Maybe an item list of your gear, jewelry. Perhaps other Minstrels can offer advice from what you show.
    I appreciate the offer, but I've decided to just uninstall and move on. There's no denying that damage was reduced, everyone agrees to that and the developer posted that it was intended. So really, we'd just be talking about how to optimize my character in order to quest, which should sound crazy to everyone since optimization is generally a elder game activity. I read tool tips. I had a rotation. I upgraded my gear when I could. There seems to be this assumption in a lot of threads that players like me are just dumb or lazy and never did any of that, but that's not true.

    That said, I'm not inclined to make any changes now. The game is clearly headed in a direction that I'm just not willing to go. LotRO was my vacation home in Middle Earth. If I'm going to dedicate a lot of time to optimizing a character, it's going to be in another game.

    I only discovered the nerf because I was gearing up to sub up for a while and, in my excitement, ran over to the questing area I needed to be in the next morning. And, being excited about playing again, I decided to kill a few things. So, I didn't just come to the forums to stir up angst about the change. I genuinely think the developer changed something that wasn't really broken and I genuinely believe it's going to do more harm than good for the game.

  12. #12

    I just experienced the nerf on low level

    My god.

    I mean, yes, the low level minstrel was way OP, running and one-shotting anything in range.
    But I created a hobbit minstrel yesterday (luckily to team up with a kinmate) and the red tree feels totally useless as you don't do any decent damage at all.
    On-level enemies take forever to kill, and soloing the dourhands & troll in the shire (the first small fellowship quest you get there) is impossible.

    I'll have to check my mid level (55-ish) minstrel to see how he fares in Moria, but I hope he can still shout some orcs into submission...

  13. #13
    I rolled on Anor and was really looking forward to leveling my red-line minstrel - saving it as a present to my self, as a matter of fact. Turns out, I should have opened that present early.

    I do appreciate Vastin for trying to address class issues, but I personally played my dps mini after his .... well, it can't be called tweaking ... so let's say massive nerf - and I have just shelved her for the time being.
    I think 1/3 (or less) of the reduction that was applied to the dps mini would have been sufficient. (as always, just my own opinion, YMMV)

    The mini was so much fun to play before! I play LotRO to relax and have fun, usually with my daughter - so I don't really look for my life challenges here. There are plenty of those to be had in RL.
    Just sayin' ...

  14. #14
    I just played my level 16 Minstrel on Arnor to see if there is any issues and there is none. It is slower then before, but way faster then playing a captain at the same level.

  15. #15
    There is no denying that Minstrel damage was reduced, as with all nerf's they went way to far.
    ive done lots of testing over the past few weeks, (lvl120) specifically maxing different stats like critical ratings to 30%, playing with many levels of mastery from 150% to cap and more,
    running low and high finesse and many combinations of offensive stats, and nothing seem to help. once you get to "we will call it nerf cap" that's it you cant hit any harder.
    and the random mob mitigation's are all over the place. no consistent damage at all.
    So some say it was done to force minstrels to run blue line in groups even for landscape stuff, to force them to learn to heal and to keep them from running red in groups.
    if this was the Devs reasoning for the nerf they dont deserve to be devs.
    please undo the damage nerf for solo red line minstrels as it has nothing to do with running a blue line healing mini.

  16. #16
    Blindboy, the damage actually went up a bit on max level.

  17. #17
    do you also have a max dps LI blindboy?

    my 120 minstrel's dps is in a very nice spot,

    i may as well roll a toon on the LS since i have not played a low level minstrel in a decade but i doubt its as weak as you all seem to think
    .

    Mortem Tyrannis

  18. #18
    do you also have a max dps LI blindboy?
    yes

    the damage actually went up a bit on max level.
    not for me, its down about 20% since nerf acording to combat analasis

  19. #19
    I have a level 20 Minstrel. A level 47 Minstrel. A level 120 Minstrel.

    The lowest is the newest. Primarily to see if what poster's say is true. Yes the beginning levels are a bit more slower but at no point was I pushed to the degree of failure. I kept this new Minstrel on the move in a killing spree that will tire most any gamer. Of course, I did not have my full arsenal of a 120 capped Minstrel but the tools at hand are sufficient.

    The mid level face rolls through landscape pulling 4 to 8 npcs and dispatches then with no problem. These are on level to 3 and 4 levels above.

    The level 120 is king on the landscape, still. Oft times one shotting normal morale npcs. Going into Skarhald resources instance and completing them in ten minutes, often less. Soloing recent skirmishes 120 duo T3 with no problem. Just for challenges I, at times solo 3 player T1 End game instances. Jeepers! I lasted 15 minutes in the Barrow Downs skirm and killed the I'll Omen. How can that not be OP?

    This above is the reality of the red line Minstrel. It isn't a bragging affair, its the truth of the matter. Any Minstrel can do this. Minstrel does have limitations and knowing where this line is helps. Recent changes to the Minstrel class has enabled it to do things not previously possible. Story of Courage is a main contributor to this new Minstrel.

    Healing Minstrel: No a level 20 Minstrel cannot claim to have mastered healing. Group and Raid Minstrels have many more factors to consider than an average red line Minstrel. Sometimes, I join pugs just to experience the insanity of today's gamers. Healing the hopeless cc, breaking dpsers this game as coddled. Aoe frenzies aggroing everything within the known universe, just to keep me actively practicing to be a Minstrel Blueline healer. Keeps me on my toes and when I am running end game raids with a far more structured environment its fairly easy to achieve success.

    The Minstrel is fine at this time. It really is, so stop ruining my chosen main class.


    Note: When offered help and requested screen shots the OP chose to stop playing the Minstrel class and maybe even quit. It is one thing to voice concerns about how the game's classes change, but when it comes across as empty complaints with no solid basis, well...
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  20. #20
    i wasn't complaining or bragging merely stating fact, i have hard combat analysis numbers to back it up.
    and i was only talking about red line minstrels at cap with good gear.
    while its true they are still "fine" as you put it
    ..they are still down from before nerf. Fact!, for me about 20% less than before to clear all 4 resource instances
    and also max crits seem to be down as well.

  21. #21
    Yep wasn't responding to you. Was a follow up from my previous post here to the OP.

    20% less and you can prove it? Go for it. I'm sure others can contradict it with proofs of their own. Except when a Minstrel could slot double dps runes, I've never hit any harder.


    Hmm wonder why that is?
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    I have a level 20 Minstrel. A level 47 Minstrel. A level 120 Minstrel.
    Note: When offered help and requested screen shots the OP chose to stop playing the Minstrel class and maybe even quit. It is one thing to voice concerns about how the game's classes change, but when it comes across as empty complaints with no solid basis, well...
    First of all, I wasn't the OP, I just responded to them. Secondly, you weren't offering help - you were setting a trap. If it annoys you that I didn't walk into your trap, good. If you want people like me to "stop ruining your chosen main class," then you should be happy when we quit YOUR game, not whining that we don't take you're so-called help.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    Note: When offered help and requested screen shots the OP chose to stop playing the Minstrel class and maybe even quit. It is one thing to voice concerns about how the game's classes change, but when it comes across as empty complaints with no solid basis, well...
    I see Minstrels as a healer class mainly, as such I don't expect a lvl-capped minstrel to be top-dps. There's other, 'better' classes for that role. However, the changes they made resulted in minstrel being hit incredibly hard in the one area where they should not have been touched; their lower-lvl landscaping abilities. Just because people can't be bothered to actually provide you screenshots of gear and tests on target dummies or whatever, doesn't mean that their complaints are invalid. There is no advice you can give us. It's not rocket science. There's no 'optimal' gear sets to use while leveling up. You craft some gear, you obtain some quest rewards and replace whatever needs replacing.

    So I'm curious to know why they made the changes at all. I've been gone for over a year, so what was their reasoning? Minstrel having too easy a time at Mordor compared to other classes? Minstrels no longer performing as healers, but ending up filling dps slots in group content? Whatever their logic, I doubt this is how they envisioned the class 'rebalance'. I'm a healer in every MMO I play and used to be a minnie in LotRO as well. But if I'm taking this long to get in some kills, having to beg 'stronger' classes to aid me in my slayer deeds and signature/elite landscape quests, then i'm simply not bothering. And from the looks of it, a lot more people than just me and those few others in this subforum.
    It's all great to hear that at lvl cap your dps has increased, but that's not really the issue, is it? I doubt that's the aim of this 'rebalance'.

    Something is fundamentally broken on lower-lvl and you need no pics and tests for proof of it.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Enikuo View Post
    First of all, I wasn't the OP, I just responded to them. Secondly, you weren't offering help - you were setting a trap. If it annoys you that I didn't walk into your trap, good. If you want people like me to "stop ruining your chosen main class," then you should be happy when we quit YOUR game, not whining that we don't take you're so-called help.
    My mistake on the credited quote. Yes I did quote you, but when I look back and re read this thread, you are calling me out on post I didn't quote to you. I'm not going to play a quote game here because you aren't why I made other post here. Care factor applies.

    No one can offer help as you have seemed to set yourself up in your own trap. The offer was given. The rest is not worth commenting on.



    The Minstrel is fine on many levels and in varying degrees. Learning to play the class proves this. Enjoy your game or not, makes no difference to me or how I play the Minstrel.
    Last edited by sapienze; Mar 18 2019 at 02:41 PM.
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  25. #25
    Level 41 now, I can faceroll opponents again. In 5-6 skills, compared to pre-nerf where I was 3 shotting things.

    However, levels 1 to ~30 were absolutely horrible. It obviously gets progressively better but holy #### I hated low level mini. 15-20 skills per mob. My red guardian does twice more damage
    Everything I say is invalid because I main a warden.

 

 
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