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  1. #1

    Rune-Keeper Nuked

    Keep this up devs and you will end up being the only ones playing the game.......

    Stop nerving classes, stop trying to "balance" them.
    Lotro has always been a fellowship game, classes need to be different, need to be special.
    Stop this ludacris journey to make classes equal.

    Rune-Keeper has always been a great single target healer with damage reduction as his main focus.
    When you take this away you basicly create a second ministrel.

    There are plenty more examples where you took this dummy approach on other classes and it ruins that special fellowship mmo.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The solution is simple:
    play the game
    The answers will become obvious

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    699
    This Change needed to come sooner or later but Changing sth like this while
    people are still trying to complete the raid (except the few big raiding kins)
    Is really bad timing.

    I know that this skill helped a lot of kins to complete id4 for example.
    It was a lot easier with 2 RK healers and less rng.

    Those who are already behind will get another hit and might complete it even later.

    20% is still strong but nerfing the CD too is just terrible.

    If you nerf sth you need to give this class sth instead. Not only Take,Take Take until you have another blue warden class.

  3. #3
    I agree

    Everyone on this game should agree

    Or at least don't DESTROY abilities.

    small balance, you know ? why always all or nothing ?

    In this case the stone was one of the last way for average groups to succeed in unbalanced/ugly scaled/forgotten situations all around.

    The fact you give us bugged Raids where people can abuse should not lead to nerfing the problem to death...

    SHAME !!!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hildilas View Post

    If you nerf sth you need to give this class sth instead. Not only Take,Take Take until you have another blue warden class.
    THIS also 1000% right !!

  5. #5
    Runekeeper out here complaining while burgs still don't even have a single spec that's interactive and viable at the same time
    Seriously though if runekeepers need this ability so drastically to be viable for healing, atleast don't destroy it!
    You can always try to communicate around with the community when it comes to these drastic decisions and get some insight of several people who've been playing it more than SSG as a whole.

    Keep up the good work tho, I'm happy that SSG is atleast trying to make moves compared to how it used to be, new instance cluster is fun

  6. #6
    I just want a dev here to answer me this question:
    Which of the following 3 options was the motivation to this class destruction:
    1: PvP.
    2: Instances being so poorly designed that you try to cover your own incompetence by nerfing a class that have a skill which allow you to ignore some mechanics.
    3: Devs just don't want any other class than mini to heal endgame the same way they don't want any other class than guardian to main tank endgame.

    Just tell me which option is it so I know if I should cancel my subscription forever and move on to another game. If it's either 1 or 3 I'm out of here for a long time, if it's 2 I'll just give you the oportunity to fix instances instead of removing one class from the game (you know I'm maybe too optimistic with people...)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Moria
    Posts
    75
    They nerfed one ability. This is highly over reactionary. The class itself hasn't been nuked, it doesn't take away from their standing in DPS rankings and they are still fine healers. Relax.
    Varkking - Dwarf Rune-Keeper - Devout of the Lidless Eye - Anor Server

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Varkking View Post
    They nerfed one ability. This is highly over reactionary. The class itself hasn't been nuked, it doesn't take away from their standing in DPS rankings and they are still fine healers. Relax.
    In the runs you do with your rk... What's the % of times you go healer?
    Also even if they were number one DPS that wouldn't still matter about their healing ability. Healing fine as you said means basically people could bring them to some 3 man and maybe 6 man but not to a raid as main healers, that's basically making my class useless.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,293
    The class itself has not been nuked, but the methods to react to splash damage or mob waves have been reduced.

    RK healing is always a little more anticipatory than reactional (DNF is the best example, but in the end it is similar for all skills).
    Our fates entwined and essay of exaltation are IMO the main reactional methods to protect a group while HoT buildup is taking place after a splash or wave event.
    The alternative is to pre-stack heals when an event is expected, which cannot take into account potential critical hits or events that cannot be anticipated.
    This means that having a char drop by 80% morale (which is not that uncommon) requires to just wait until the HoT buildup is done (unless people try to use "epic that takes ages").

    The consequence is that group-wide morale drops are more dangerous with RK healers. This is usually less an issue with regular splash without adds, but it puts more pressure on getting aggro from all mobs instantly over all distances *before* they can score. Which can be a matter of tank class.

    EDIT: I should probably say more clearly that I think that this weakening of splash/wave damage reduction is not a good idea and is problematic especially for small instances in higher tiers, when no additional healers are present. It might also be harder with non-guardian tanks. IMO not a good choice in the more competitive scenarios, where classes are dismissed at the slightest weakness. Good kins will not care, but we read about different behavior all the time.
    Last edited by thinx; Feb 13 2019 at 05:12 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by thinx View Post
    The class itself has not been nuked, but the methods to react to splash damage or mob waves has been reduced.

    RK healing is always a little more anticipatory than reactional (DNF is the best example, but in the end it is similar for all skills).
    Our fates entwined and essay of exaltation are IMO the main reactional methods to protect a group while HoT buildup is taking place after a splash or wave event.
    The alternative is to pre-stack heals when an event is expected, which cannot take into account potential critical hits or events that cannot be anticipated.
    This means that having a char drop by 80% morale (which is not that uncommon) requires to just wait until the HoT buildup is done (unless people try to use "epic that takes ages").

    The consequence is that group-wide morale drops are more dangerous with RK healers. This is usually less an issue with regular splash without adds, but it puts more pressure on getting aggro from all mobs instantly over all distances *before* they can score. Which can be a matter of tank class.
    The problem with rk healers (I mean the ones who use runekeeper mainly for healing, not the ones who make a secondary spec just in case) is that we do not want to heal the same way as beorning or mini, we don't want to be able to refill group morale after they take an 80% hit on their morale instantly. We want to PREVENT and AVOID that damage in the first place. That's the essence of the class and what makes it fun to play...and they just want to have a 2nd line minstrel with less heals and no utility for when the group can't find a mini so they just say " well, I guess we can use a rk if no mini around".

    Edit: I forgot to say that with this NERF they've taken away some of the hardest things they had ever achieved: 3 main healers classes in good balance, though I'm sure they made that unwillingly. Before the NERF groups would bring 2 minstrels, 2 rk or 2 beorning or the combination of any of these classes. That was happening to everything but 1st boss in which 2 minis wasn't an option and rk and beorning had a guaranteed spot but mini had guaranteed spot too for anthems in that boss so I wouldn't say that's a problem. Now...well I doubt any group will bring heal rk over beorning or mini to any T2 or T3 run...

    You can't imagine the times I've gotten a tell saying they prefer to wait and try to get a minstrel instead, or that they would prefer a bad geared 5th alt minstrel over a main heal runekeeper who has healed during all raids in game since the class exists.
    Last edited by Kander; Feb 13 2019 at 04:38 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,293
    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    ....
    I play my RK as healer every time we play higher tiers... I wasn't defending the change, but was IMO pointing out the negative consequences. Probably not as harsh as you would have wished, but not positive :-)
    EDIT: added a few sentences above to make this more clear.
    Last edited by thinx; Feb 13 2019 at 05:10 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    2: Instances being so poorly designed that you try to cover your own incompetence by nerfing a class that have a skill which allow you to ignore some mechanics.
    Why make a list.. only one reason here.

    Fair to say.. Vastin mentioned these "game breaking" abilities need to go. But yeah, why make a mechanic, that's tuned so bad, that it's possible to ignore it? Why not just give a fantazillion damage, if you're not behind those darn ice walls ? To be fair, if you know the mechanic it's possible to run behind.

    Stone is pretty nice to have in T3 instances, when things goes a bit south..

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    9,884
    Quote Originally Posted by Endoloose View Post
    Why make a list.. only one reason here.

    Fair to say.. Vastin mentioned these "game breaking" abilities need to go. But yeah, why make a mechanic, that's tuned so bad, that it's possible to ignore it? Why not just give a fantazillion damage, if you're not behind those darn ice walls ? To be fair, if you know the mechanic it's possible to run behind.

    Stone is pretty nice to have in T3 instances, when things goes a bit south..
    It's all very well going through each class, looking for one or two "game breaking" skills or abilities that give "ultimate power" and nerfing them down to nothing or stripping them completely from the game. . . but when are they going to go through each class, and make the useless skills meaningful? Every class has at least one useless skill that may as well not even be wasting a toolbar slot, but most have more than one.

    Maybe it's just me, but it seems all about take, and no give.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  14. #14
    We were told there was going to be an RK redesign how many months ago?
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  15. #15

    Angry

    I play mainly RK from the very beginning when it came out. He was a class of OP, very OP, but also normal as it was last time. In principle, changes in other classes have caused that he lost his extraordinariness as heal.

    This change reminds me of a different one, also not fully thought out. We treat typhus with plague. At this moment, RK in the heal starts losing its charm - for a moment he gave respite to the foundation of hot and healing the whole group in extreme conditions. Mini has its very strong situational skills. At the moment what does RK have? Too much of the most-important heal in such a situation.

    Of course, someone will tell you that we are going to 2 RK and they are throwing stones for change and the group does not get a demage. But before casting, they got an 80% morale drop and heal here with a class that would have to give up her skills in turn. (I will remind you that there is still a tank for continuous treatment). Now throwing a stone will reduce the possibilities. In some games, these changes are slower, or tests on servers designed for this.

    WHY, DO NOT TRY FIRST, REDUCES UP TO 50%, THAN 40%, 30% ...

    Players have discovered a method to circumvent the inconvenient truth that this is the moment at which at least one RK is needed? Now he can say goodbye to RK as heal with T3, and maybe even T2 (I will see after changes as it will, but I do not expect miracles).

    A similar change, not thought over to the end, was to reduce the main stat converter. The bonuses that were just killed have been reduced too much. Why do I need an essence from a will, agility, might or fate, if I have specific, much better static essences, and if I farm some instances I can have a gear with 4 slots? Because someone could see that he did not want to count, that a decrease to x2 would make it unnecessary to insert these essences, and you could count and try, say, x6, x5, x4,5, x4, x3.5. Maybe it would be possible to find the middle ground when it will be better, but at the cost of not so much a loss of something else.
    Last edited by Petrus; Feb 13 2019 at 10:04 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hildilas View Post
    This Change needed to come sooner or later but Changing sth like this while
    people are still trying to complete the raid (except the few big raiding kins)
    Is really bad timing.

    THIS


    Raid tier 3 title is unlockable over a time limited window, my kin was using RK heal for some strategies.

    First, we already changed our plans because of Boss 1 change last week.
    Then, we've done a second change in our roster because of minstrel up some days ago.
    And now, we have to change our strategies and roster for the third time because of this huge nerf, two weeks before the end of the limited time event raid title....

    Does this nerf could not wait the end of Raid event seriously ?

    You're taking so many stupid decision SSG, you're making this game suffer and it has to be ended... for me it will be after anvil raid completion.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    9,884
    Quote Originally Posted by MolagBal View Post
    THIS


    Raid tier 3 title is unlockable over a time limited window, my kin was using RK heal for some strategies.

    First, we already changed our plans because of Boss 1 change last week.
    Then, we've done a second change in our roster because of minstrel up some days ago.
    And now, we have to change our strategies and roster for the third time because of this huge nerf, two weeks before the end of the limited time event raid title....

    Does this nerf could not wait the end of Raid event seriously ?

    You're taking so many stupid decision SSG, you're making this game suffer and it has to be ended... for me it will be after anvil raid completion.
    Good luck with your runs. I really hope you and your kinnies are successful and obtain that title. It sounds a lot to me like this is SSG's way of holding onto that OC title. Allow a way to get the title with some kind of "super skill", then remove it shortly after a handful of players have used it to get the title. It's really not fair IMO. The change should wait until after the title period is over, or it should have been made before the t3 raid was released. All the kins going for this title should be on equal footing, all the way through the time frame allowed.

    If you do manage to get the title, please do come back and tell us. Extra Kudos should be flying your way, for obtaining it after this change, when it's going to be harder to get.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

 

 

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