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  1. #1

    @Lansu Anvil of Winterstith Boss 1 T3 Rework

    maybe it is the time to make this fight more consistent instead of the RNG fest that exist in the fight ? you can make it as hard as you want but just make free of RNGs, in T3 so far, some kins didn't get a single belly flop, others adds spawned like 3 mins late, and others got belly flop with adds spawn very early. this is very unhealthy for the raid.
    can we get a reply from you on that please ?
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomanjy View Post
    maybe it is the time to make this fight more consistent instead of the RNG fest that exist in the fight ? you can make it as hard as you want but just make free of RNGs, in T3 so far, some kins didn't get a single belly flop, others adds spawned like 3 mins late, and others got belly flop with adds spawn very early. this is very unhealthy for the raid.
    can we get a reply from you on that please ?
    There are some major things regarding Boss 1 that need to be addressed to create a more consistent and more mechanically challenging fight than it is right now. Boss 1 is currently BY FAR the most challenging Boss in the Raid which is very unusual for most raids. On our server, after we've cleared the entire Raid, we've had multiple requests to give others our Boss 1 ID so that other kinships can start raiding from Boss 2 and don't have to deal with Boss 1.

    As of right now and we know that the Bosses aren't perfect yet, the only really viable strategy for Boss 1 is to DPS the Boss down and kite all of the Adds. That way you will avoid having to deal with multiple RNG factors and after some lucky pulls, you'll get a good try. This isn't how it should be!

    1. There are too many RNG elements to the fight:
    1. Random Dragon Breath Oneshotting Fields that are basically being ignored for the entire fight as there are spots that are not covered but can be frustrating sometimes (= being unlucky while kiting/having the Energized Whelpling cast inside the Field)
    2. Random Energized Whelpling spawn location
    3. Random Purple Eye onto anyone in the raid
    4. Random Ability queuing of the Boss which will lead to very inconsistent and unequal fights (read more below)
    5. Random Blue Eye (although that mechanic basically can be completely ignored)
    6. Spawned Adds randomly choosing a Target for their Breath Attack which may or may not oneshot people if they're enraged.
    7. Random amount of Belly Flops


    2. It really isn't clear how adds are supposed to be dealt with or what SSG thinks we should do about them:
    • Their morale was supposed to be decreased which didn't happen which indicates that we're maybe supposed to kill them which is nowhere near an option right now (Their Morale needs to be decreased by like 75% for that to be a viable option)
    • They sort of have an enrage timer that will greatly increase their damage/movement speed over time, so they should die before reaching Tier 10 (or you wanna kill the boss before that LUL)
    • The Boss is constantly (90-120 seconds timer, not sure about that one) respawning all of the Adds that have been killed.
    • because of that, killing all adds is basically not an option
    • having Adds close to the Boss will buff the Boss


    3. Energized Whelplings and Enrage Timer:
    • The Boss currently does not have an enrage timer. Having to deal with adds (if that is how it's supposed to be) will greatly decrease Boss DPS, so keep that in mind.
    • Energized Whelpling will only spawn 4 times in total and won't spawn thereafter which would be OK if the Boss actually had an enrage timer.
    • Energized Whelplings "Casting Animation" is some sort of Purple Smoke and sometimes interrupting them within seconds after starting to cast will not actually Interrupt them (that one is really hard to explain). Just give them a normal Casting Animation (the Orange Circle).


    4. The Random Ability Queuing of the Boss:
    This one is by far the most frustrating and worst mechanic of the Boss which leads to very inconsistent fights.

    Basically, the Boss will do 1 Ability at a time and 1 Ability only. For example, if you get the Purple Eye before the Boss goes down to 95% Morale, the Boss will not start spawning the adds until the Purple Eye mechanic is over. If you're lucky afterwards, the Boss will maybe cast a Blue Eye onto someone which will also delay Adds from spawning. This results in totally RNG fights and no set preparation for the fight. We've seen Raids not having a Single "Belly Flop" due to RNG, we've seen adds first spawning at 50% of the Bosses Morale. The Boss fight itself is so random and every fight is totally different from the last one. This needs to change!

    Solutions:

    1. Give some of the RNG elements a set rotation (which may has to be figured out by the groups first). Having so many RNG things in a Boss fight is just frustrating and just plain stupid. A good raiding group should be able to consistently have a good fight and not rely on luck. Maybe just completely remove the Dragon Breath fields. They have been buggy since release.

    2. Drastically nerf the adds Morale which was supposed to happen earlier, then there might also be new strategies for that Boss.

    3. Fix the ability queuing of the Boss. It makes fights way to inconsistent and random.


    Something Regarding Boss 4:
    This boss also has some ability queuing issues. The Boss will not immediatly start casting "Absolute Zero" after freezing a player (the Blue Eye). This means that most of the time, the player that has been frozen will come out of the Freeze before "Absolute Zero" is actually casted. The entire Raid will therefore die and the only way to avoid this is by having 2 Healing Runekeepers that will do their "Our fates Entwinded" (or whatever that skill is called) right before "Absolute Zero". Please fix!
    Last edited by Snobs; Feb 11 2019 at 11:32 PM.

  3. #3
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    RNG isn´t the problem. Length of the purple eye is the problem:

    If you are able to kill the boss within 4min and 3min from that the boss is running in circles (=doing nothing), it leaves very small time window for its other skills.

    Let´s look at Hrimil:

    Random blue eyes
    Random ice fields
    Random walls
    Random add dragons positions


    and nothing of this is a problem because the skills come more or less regularly.


    But the limited time window by Isvitha to do something meaningful means some fights are much more easier (not calling adds/calling just one wave of adds), some are much difficult (getting two waves of adds immediately if not waiting for the first purple eye).
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik.
    English isn't my native language, sorry for mistakes.

  4. #4
    The Length if the eye wouldn't be a problem if Isvitha would be able to use other abilities in that time besides chomp.

    But the problem of that fight is the RNG...

    -If someone dies with the Purple eye because he got oneshot from the ice field, she will stand there for the rest of the duration of the purple eye doing nothing even if her target is dead. Not always the case...

    -If you are able to get her below 80% in that first purple eye phase and she is above 95% before she won't spawn adds for a long time or in rare cases never and that is not because she is using other abilities. Even this example is not true for 100% of the time...
    Do you wanna tell me that she ist doing other abilities all the time while losing 60%+ health, defintely not the case.

    -Then you have the RNG after a wipe that maybe one of the icefield's isn't working anymore. There are the marks which mark the next drop, but the field will never come. Other case is that the field is just appearing for half the length.

    - The RNG of the blue/purple eye is fine. The only change there could be that the blue eye is only for players in distance so they have to move to the boss, like the purple eye at boss 3 which is only for melee. But not necassary


    You can't compare Boss 1 and Boss 4 because there are no abilities which are dependent on Boss Moral and therefore causing this trubble.

    Random blue eyes --- More than enough time to react
    Random ice fields --- More than enough time to react
    Random walls --- Enough time to run and in T3 there are not even there... Just RNG/Bugged like early Beta stages for T2 when she wasn't casting absolute zero after stun/blue eye.
    Random add dragons positions --- Since the positions where the dragon can spawn are fix, you can scan those positions and you see them like 5sec before they "arrive" on the plattform and prepare.

    You can prepare for every of these mechanics or have enough time to react. What I'm trying to say is that you can answer the RNG at the last Boss to a point where the RNG becomes irrelevant. That is not the case for Boss 1.

    Also the Animation cutting/skipping at Boss 1 is annoying. Don't make him interrupt his cast's with another ability. That's like he is using immediate skills. So that someone would not come to the idea reporting the Boss for exploiting !!!11elf LuL


  5. #5
    A lot of things were brought up and then just completely ignored by devs. I agree, this fight needs to be fixed.

    On one pull you can get two belly flops. In the next pull you can get four belly flops all in the same 3 minutes.

    It really does suck that the best way to beat this fight is just to be completely lucky with her add spawns where she doesnt use her skill until the 1:30 mark or the 2:00 mark. Or you are more lucky if you get more blue eyes versus more purple eyes (which can happen on lucky pulls). I am just not a fan of all this luck that is involved to have a clean kill of this boss.

    I dont mind the mechanics of the fight, i really dont.
    You just really have to go back and look at one of lotro's best raid encounters that is The Unbroken t2c. Vortex's happened every 45 seconds, darklings spawned every minute, devourering every 1:30 or so and etc. These are all things that will happen, instead of just maybe. If you are afraid that creating elements that are more predictable to happen will make the fight more easy. Then I think you would be wrong here, it would still be a difficult fight once all the pieces are into play.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fureo View Post
    The Length if the eye wouldn't be a problem if Isvitha would be able to use other abilities in that time besides chomp.

    But the problem of that fight is the RNG...

    -If someone dies with the Purple eye because he got oneshot from the ice field, she will stand there for the rest of the duration of the purple eye doing nothing even if her target is dead. Not always the case...

    -If you are able to get her below 80% in that first purple eye phase and she is above 95% before she won't spawn adds for a long time or in rare cases never and that is not because she is using other abilities. Even this example is not true for 100% of the time...
    Do you wanna tell me that she ist doing other abilities all the time while losing 60%+ health, defintely not the case.

    -Then you have the RNG after a wipe that maybe one of the icefield's isn't working anymore. There are the marks which mark the next drop, but the field will never come. Other case is that the field is just appearing for half the length.

    - The RNG of the blue/purple eye is fine. The only change there could be that the blue eye is only for players in distance so they have to move to the boss, like the purple eye at boss 3 which is only for melee. But not necassary


    You can't compare Boss 1 and Boss 4 because there are no abilities which are dependent on Boss Moral and therefore causing this trubble.

    Random blue eyes --- More than enough time to react
    Random ice fields --- More than enough time to react
    Random walls --- Enough time to run and in T3 there are not even there... Just RNG/Bugged like early Beta stages for T2 when she wasn't casting absolute zero after stun/blue eye.
    Random add dragons positions --- Since the positions where the dragon can spawn are fix, you can scan those positions and you see them like 5sec before they "arrive" on the plattform and prepare.

    You can prepare for every of these mechanics or have enough time to react. What I'm trying to say is that you can answer the RNG at the last Boss to a point where the RNG becomes irrelevant. That is not the case for Boss 1.

    Also the Animation cutting/skipping at Boss 1 is annoying. Don't make him interrupt his cast's with another ability. That's like he is using immediate skills. So that someone would not come to the idea reporting the Boss for exploiting !!!11elf LuL
    What you wrote about Hrimil is that there is enough reaction time. There is enough reaction time also by Isvitha. You can see clearly see all her attacks and you have enough time to prepare for what is coming.


    What you wrote to Isvitha are mostly bugs. I still think my statement holds true:


    Because of dominant length of purple eye there is too small space for other mechanics, which leads to high variety in difficulty: from very simple to very difficult.


    If you would take out purple eye mechanic, all other mechanics would occure more often without possibility to omit some of them. The fight would be then similar to Hrimil, when you simply need to deal with mechanic instead of hoping to avoid some mechanics.

    So, to me, the purple eye is the bad guy here.
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik.
    English isn't my native language, sorry for mistakes.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Estelrandir View Post
    What you wrote about Hrimil is that there is enough reaction time. There is enough reaction time also by Isvitha. You can see clearly see all her attacks and you have enough time to prepare for what is coming.


    But it is still RNG and it is heavily affecting the progress of the fight and that is not the case with Hrimil. Her abilities don't change the strategy and everyone is simply having a simular fight. You don't have a simular fight at Isvitha between several groups.

    In general the purple eye is just delaying any other ability, which is fine and gives the group the chance to take advantage. The point is that the boss has a list of abilities which she chooses to use or not if they are not on Cooldown. If she would use her abilities on Cooldown and the purple eye would not make her incapable using other abilities then it wouldn't be RNG anymore and therefore the way she uses abilities has to change. Purple Eye may be part of that but it's not the main problem. And the spawn of the adds should be a mechanic coming from the instance and not from the Boss. So she shouldn't be able to choose to use an ability, but may us another because she can.

    And the fact that she can choose between several abilities is 100% RNG and just the way that the add spawn is the biggest influence of the fight is a random ability makes it RNG. Because she isn't forced to use the add spawn at 95%/80% is RNG.

    The fight should be that the purple eye gives you an advantage because she isn't using other abilities. If you die, you lose the advantage and she is using her abilities when they have no Cooldown. And then the add spawn is a mechanic from the encounter and not an ability from the Boss, would basically fix it. And with that the purple eye can still block other abilities and you would have a fair fight.


  8. #8
    Anvil first boss is basically Thraknul 2.0 (Dungeons of Naerband last boss) at current state. I can't see any person that want to finish this more than once.

  9. #9
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    This fight should be must to deal with the adds by melee aoe dps or whatever so champions and wardens can be useful for a change.The fight have so many adds and we have to go single its ridiculous.
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  10. #10
    At least remove the aura damage from the adds and make them vulnerable to melee damage so the melee classes can deal with them. FFS you made changes to minstrels just because they are more populated than champions in forums and because they were afraid of been replaced by Beornings , like minstrel's heals wasnt already fine and could easily heal everything and you keep ignoring the long forgotten WARDENS and CHAMPIONS. I haven't see any seriously warden around since Mordor. Shame
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Snobs View Post
    Something Regarding Boss 4:
    This boss also has some ability queuing issues. The Boss will not immediatly start casting "Absolute Zero" after freezing a player (the Blue Eye). This means that most of the time, the player that has been frozen will come out of the Freeze before "Absolute Zero" is actually casted. The entire Raid will therefore die and the only way to avoid this is by having 2 Healing Runekeepers that will do their "Our fates Entwinded" (or whatever that skill is called) right before "Absolute Zero". Please fix!
    ^^^^ this...maybe before nerfing fates you should fix the boss first ? ^_^
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  12. #12
    In my opinion boss 1 is the last encounter in this raid that has to be changed (or had to since a patch has already been anounced). While it has some issues, it is actually challenging, unlike id 2 and 3. Even minor mistakes can lead to a whipe, as it should be at the highest difficulty.

    In the videos posted so far all groups were somewhat lucky with the queueing of Isvitha's skills: "Purple eye" was first skill cast onto someone in the the tank group and there was at most one bellyflop. But with improved damage and handling of the whelplings it should be possible to complete this fight with a less favourable sequence of Isvitha's skills.

    In id 2 and 3 your only real challenge (as a dd) is to get a nice parse combat analysis, as you need neither a lot of damage nor a good tactic and execution therof to succeed. And that is a far more serious problem.

 

 

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