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  1. #1
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    Why is there so little movement on this forum - this is a critical time!

    I have returned to this game just over a month now and I have been checking these forums, twitter and facebook daily and I have had hardly any tidbits of news of what is under development, dev communication or dev comments on upcoming changes. I dont want to watch a stream of Cordovan for an hour just to get 1 line saying oh we are still working on the 64 bit client and its been merged into our dev environment - give us more concrete info and put it on the forums.

    We need more communication and more transparency, I am investing heavily in this game now for the first time in 10+ years (money and time) and I want to see my investment is well spent. I don't want to hit max level and be faced with a stagnant game and with problematic issues.

    This is a critical time for this game, every month counts. Developers stop wasting time on streams, musical parties and organising small events, do not waste time on this during work hours, this only satisfies 1% of the community and the new players need real dev work coming out. While that is happening we need constant communication and a stream of information coming out on the forums. We don't want casual streams, we want professional Q & As such as WoW or look at ESO's which is a group having a detailed chat.

    We also don't want you to have your head down working away at things to only stick your head up at the end and have us complain, garner feedback regularly, adopt agile development.

    On a last note, it's not rocket science that this game is receiving a new influx of life from returning players, you have one chance, do not waste it.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaine6 View Post
    I have returned to this game just over a month now and I have been checking these forums, twitter and facebook daily and I have had hardly any tidbits of news of what is under development, dev communication or dev comments on upcoming changes. I dont want to watch a stream of Cordovan for an hour just to get 1 line saying oh we are still working on the 64 bit client and its been merged into our dev environment - give us more concrete info and put it on the forums.

    We need more communication and more transparency, I am investing heavily in this game now for the first time in 10+ years (money and time) and I want to see my investment is well spent. I don't want to hit max level and be faced with a stagnant game and with problematic issues.

    This is a critical time for this game, every month counts. Developers stop wasting time on streams, musical parties and organising small events, do not waste time on this during work hours, this only satisfies 1% of the community and the new players need real dev work coming out. While that is happening we need constant communication and a stream of information coming out on the forums. We don't want casual streams, we want professional Q & As such as WoW or look at ESO's which is a group having a detailed chat.

    We also don't want you to have your head down working away at things to only stick your head up at the end and have us complain, garner feedback regularly, adopt agile development.

    On a last note, it's not rocket science that this game is receiving a new influx of life from returning players, you have one chance, do not waste it.
    The devs are very cautious about what they say in the forums or any other public venue. They have (counting from the launch of Asheron's Call in 1998) twenty years' collective experience with the phenomenon wherein a fan says, "Can we have X?" and some dev says, "Yeah, that would be nice," and the fans assume he meant, "Yeah, we'll have it up in the next update."
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    The devs are very cautious about what they say in the forums or any other public venue. They have (counting from the launch of Asheron's Call in 1998) twenty years' collective experience with the phenomenon wherein a fan says, "Can we have X?" and some dev says, "Yeah, that would be nice," and the fans assume he meant, "Yeah, we'll have it up in the next update."
    Twenty years of experience and they've FINALLY wised up, so no more Producer Letter, etc, eh?
    Arkenstone (formerly Landroval):
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaine6 View Post
    This is a critical time for this game, every month counts. Developers stop wasting time on streams, musical parties and organising small events, do not waste time on this during work hours, this only satisfies 1% of the community and the new players need real dev work coming out.
    What do you consider real dev work? I just finished Ered Mithrin, and that place is fantastic in my humble opinion, the landscape, soundtrack, the lore pages, the works. To me, that is real dev work. And what musical parties are you talking about? If you mean concerts in game, aren't those player run events that are just featured in The Beacon?



    I disagree with SSG a lot, a WHOLE lot, but one thing I can never accuse them of doing is resting on their laurels.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  5. #5
    So, what you want is what others don't care, and what you want less is what others ask for in the last 10 years.

    I don't care about musical stuff, I don't watch streaming, but while you were not there (about near the life of this MMO) the players who made this game a good place to play, who pay in time and cash all those years, should just step aside so you can tell everybody how this game should work...

    Maybe it's only the way you wrote it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruselticks View Post
    So, what you want is what others don't care, and what you want less is what others ask for in the last 10 years.

    I don't care about musical stuff, I don't watch streaming, but while you were not there (about near the life of this MMO) the players who made this game a good place to play, who pay in time and cash all those years, should just step aside so you can tell everybody how this game should work...

    Maybe it's only the way you wrote it.
    The returning and new players need a real future to look forward to, not just fluff that only the die-hard fans can chew on such as these community events.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    What do you consider real dev work? I just finished Ered Mithrin, and that place is fantastic in my humble opinion, the landscape, soundtrack, the lore pages, the works. To me, that is real dev work. And what musical parties are you talking about? If you mean concerts in game, aren't those player run events that are just featured in The Beacon?



    I disagree with SSG a lot, a WHOLE lot, but one thing I can never accuse them of doing is resting on their laurels.
    When was this zone built, was it recently? If they are building similar now they need to communicate and showcase, take a card from EDO on this who know how to market what they are working on. They show expansions basically half way through their development and zones months before hand in different mediums.

  8. #8
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    Welcome back OP, and remember don't feed the forum trolls trying to derail any thread that isn't full of flattery.

    Consider the following:

    -The still-missing producer's letter detailing 2019 Lotro plans that was due in December last year
    -The utter lack of any promotion for this current "event" that is supposed to up the log ins in the dead season time
    -The fact that said "event" went live full of bugs and inconsistencies, never being beta tested and never having a Dev Diary explaining how it's supposed to work
    -Forum posters bringing up real game-related issues getting swarmed and personally attacked by other posters, as you have already been
    -Zero moderation consequences for posters making personal attacks as long as they praise the game
    -No official increase in effort to bring community together via transparent communication at this critical time
    -Stagnant forums, as consequence of all the above

    At this rate, there is no official guarantee nor assurance that the money you spend is actually going towards supporting Lotro directly, rather than being rerouted towards Daybreak's other projects that it oversees. Your investments have certainly not resulted in expediting delivery of aforementioned Producer's letter. If indeed said producer is still currently employed at Standing Stone Games in this capacity. The silence and missing-in-action letter is indicative of change of personnel, the absence of producer, lack of certainty concerning 2019 Lotro plans, or all of the above.
    The "skirmish event" seemingly designed to hype upcoming Minas Morgul content was delivered to live servers in inexcusably rushed, buggy, and broken confusion. To the point that even Lotro devs weren't sure how it was supposed to work and posted some incorrect and contradictory information on the forums earlier last week. Needless to say, all of these happenings don't inspire confidence, much less actual investment.

    As you're a an old veteran returning after a long time, my advice is be an observer and watch, explore, play, but don't spend. There's still value in Lotro to be found, but as always it is on personal basis. What many trolls don't understand is it's possible to love Lotro and be critical of its glaring mishandling at the same time. That is the passion speaking out. When critical voices go silent, or are silenced, the floor falls through and gaming company takes a financial loss, leading to layoffs and downsizing. Game product suffers and it's a vicious circle. For reference, see Helms Deep closed beta + early 2014. This is no different, to go by some increased efforts a few posts above to bait you into thread derail. People fear criticism because they fear losing Lotro, yet fear is proof of doubt.

  9. #9
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    The forums have become a dead town over the last 9 months or so. It's not only dev activity that has taken a downturn, it's player activity too. It used to be that if you were away from the forum for a day or two, threads had moved off page one. Nowadays, you can look at the forum every day for a month, and the same threads are just hanging around with not much going on in them.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    The forums have become a dead town over the last 9 months or so. It's not only dev activity that has taken a downturn, it's player activity too. It used to be that if you were away from the forum for a day or two, threads had moved off page one. Nowadays, you can look at the forum every day for a month, and the same threads are just hanging around with not much going on in them.

    Is there something wrong with your eyes? There are plenty of of dev activities in this forum. Much more than 9 month ago. What do you want? 24-7 private chat service with MOL and Sev? They are doing their best and the activity is good here.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurinuor View Post
    Is there something wrong with your eyes? There are plenty of of dev activities in this forum. Much more than 9 month ago. What do you want? 24-7 private chat service with MOL and Sev? They are doing their best and the activity is good here.

    Cordovan is not a dev, he doesn't code, he's consumer relations, so more a GM. Vastin would be a dev, but where's the dev above him that's supposed to have an actual long term plan that would be shared in the Producer's Letter?
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maryam View Post
    Cordovan is not a dev, he doesn't code, he's consumer relations, so more a GM. Vastin would be a dev, but where's the dev above him that's supposed to have an actual long term plan that would be shared in the Producer's Letter?
    Producer's letter is in the final stage, Cordovan said on Cord of the rings on last friday. It's written and has to be translated and needs an official approvement before. We will get the 2019's plan soon.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurinuor View Post
    Is there something wrong with your eyes? There are plenty of of dev activities in this forum. Much more than 9 month ago. What do you want? 24-7 private chat service with MOL and Sev? They are doing their best and the activity is good here.


    Yeah...´No offence...I am sorry but for example a dev response to the Anvill ID1 issue is not really helpful at all. He/She just states how it should work, players said that the boss is bugged from second 1 and after that there was no response. Not even: We will fix this.It feels like we just have to deal with this bugged boss somehow.

    Nothing on scaling loot in older inis/skirmishes properly (It would just be a "fun" thing If they raised the itemlevel to 376), no producers letter......

    What I wanted to say that 90% of those dev responses are not really to important issues of the player base. The skirmishes are bugged - yes, but I knew without reading the forum that they will do sth about the T3 barrows issue. You know what I mean?
    Beacon thread responses and server update threads do not really count either.

    I know that +cord cannot just answer every topic because he is not responsible but IF a dev responses - like in the id1 anvill thread, he/she should not just stop after player answered to that response.
    Same with the class threads in the BR forum. Luckily they fixes the mini and will fix the burg. That's a glimmer of hope for the champ and warden tank.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurinuor View Post
    Is there something wrong with your eyes? There are plenty of of dev activities in this forum. Much more than 9 month ago. What do you want? 24-7 private chat service with MOL and Sev? They are doing their best and the activity is good here.

    Yeah, I didn't say there was no activity, I said it's declined over the last 9 months (i. e. Don't look at just the last 9 months, compare it with the 9 months previous to that) - which it has, and mostly, by players, but also dev interaction. My eyes are working just fine, maybe yours aren't. I get it, they are busy. It doesn't bother me that they are not here all the time, I'm just informing the OP of what's what. I'm more bothered by the lack of player forum activity to be honest, it screams low numbers.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Feb 12 2019 at 05:55 AM.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  15. #15
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    Always funny to see a thread directed at SSG rubbing up unrelated people the wrong way.
    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelir View Post
    Welcome back OP, and remember don't feed the forum trolls trying to derail any thread that isn't full of flattery.

    Consider the following:

    -The still-missing producer's letter detailing 2019 Lotro plans that was due in December last year
    -The utter lack of any promotion for this current "event" that is supposed to up the log ins in the dead season time
    -The fact that said "event" went live full of bugs and inconsistencies, never being beta tested and never having a Dev Diary explaining how it's supposed to work
    -Forum posters bringing up real game-related issues getting swarmed and personally attacked by other posters, as you have already been
    -Zero moderation consequences for posters making personal attacks as long as they praise the game
    -No official increase in effort to bring community together via transparent communication at this critical time
    -Stagnant forums, as consequence of all the above

    At this rate, there is no official guarantee nor assurance that the money you spend is actually going towards supporting Lotro directly, rather than being rerouted towards Daybreak's other projects that it oversees. Your investments have certainly not resulted in expediting delivery of aforementioned Producer's letter. If indeed said producer is still currently employed at Standing Stone Games in this capacity. The silence and missing-in-action letter is indicative of change of personnel, the absence of producer, lack of certainty concerning 2019 Lotro plans, or all of the above.
    The "skirmish event" seemingly designed to hype upcoming Minas Morgul content was delivered to live servers in inexcusably rushed, buggy, and broken confusion. To the point that even Lotro devs weren't sure how it was supposed to work and posted some incorrect and contradictory information on the forums earlier last week. Needless to say, all of these happenings don't inspire confidence, much less actual investment.

    As you're a an old veteran returning after a long time, my advice is be an observer and watch, explore, play, but don't spend. There's still value in Lotro to be found, but as always it is on personal basis. What many trolls don't understand is it's possible to love Lotro and be critical of its glaring mishandling at the same time. That is the passion speaking out. When critical voices go silent, or are silenced, the floor falls through and gaming company takes a financial loss, leading to layoffs and downsizing. Game product suffers and it's a vicious circle. For reference, see Helms Deep closed beta + early 2014. This is no different, to go by some increased efforts a few posts above to bait you into thread derail. People fear criticism because they fear losing Lotro, yet fear is proof of doubt.
    Really thank you for that, I couldnt write it better.

    Commander Liliam - the Warden
    Evernight

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hildilas View Post
    Yeah...´No offence...I am sorry but for example a dev response to the Anvill ID1 issue is not really helpful at all. He/She just states how it should work, players said that the boss is bugged from second 1 and after that there was no response. Not even: We will fix this.It feels like we just have to deal with this bugged boss somehow.

    Nothing on scaling loot in older inis/skirmishes properly (It would just be a "fun" thing If they raised the itemlevel to 376), no producers letter......

    What I wanted to say that 90% of those dev responses are not really to important issues of the player base. The skirmishes are bugged - yes, but I knew without reading the forum that they will do sth about the T3 barrows issue. You know what I mean?
    Beacon thread responses and server update threads do not really count either.

    I know that +cord cannot just answer every topic because he is not responsible but IF a dev responses - like in the id1 anvill thread, he/she should not just stop after player answered to that response.
    Same with the class threads in the BR forum. Luckily they fixes the mini and will fix the burg. That's a glimmer of hope for the champ and warden tank.
    Exactly this, most of the occasional responses are not the clear cut tidbits of information that we need from the real developers.

  18. #18
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    Apr 2007
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    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelir View Post
    Welcome back OP, and remember don't feed the forum trolls trying to derail any thread that isn't full of flattery.

    Consider the following:

    -The still-missing producer's letter detailing 2019 Lotro plans that was due in December last year
    -The utter lack of any promotion for this current "event" that is supposed to up the log ins in the dead season time
    -The fact that said "event" went live full of bugs and inconsistencies, never being beta tested and never having a Dev Diary explaining how it's supposed to work
    -Forum posters bringing up real game-related issues getting swarmed and personally attacked by other posters, as you have already been
    -Zero moderation consequences for posters making personal attacks as long as they praise the game
    -No official increase in effort to bring community together via transparent communication at this critical time
    -Stagnant forums, as consequence of all the above

    At this rate, there is no official guarantee nor assurance that the money you spend is actually going towards supporting Lotro directly, rather than being rerouted towards Daybreak's other projects that it oversees. Your investments have certainly not resulted in expediting delivery of aforementioned Producer's letter. If indeed said producer is still currently employed at Standing Stone Games in this capacity. The silence and missing-in-action letter is indicative of change of personnel, the absence of producer, lack of certainty concerning 2019 Lotro plans, or all of the above.
    The "skirmish event" seemingly designed to hype upcoming Minas Morgul content was delivered to live servers in inexcusably rushed, buggy, and broken confusion. To the point that even Lotro devs weren't sure how it was supposed to work and posted some incorrect and contradictory information on the forums earlier last week. Needless to say, all of these happenings don't inspire confidence, much less actual investment.

    As you're a an old veteran returning after a long time, my advice is be an observer and watch, explore, play, but don't spend. There's still value in Lotro to be found, but as always it is on personal basis. What many trolls don't understand is it's possible to love Lotro and be critical of its glaring mishandling at the same time. That is the passion speaking out. When critical voices go silent, or are silenced, the floor falls through and gaming company takes a financial loss, leading to layoffs and downsizing. Game product suffers and it's a vicious circle. For reference, see Helms Deep closed beta + early 2014. This is no different, to go by some increased efforts a few posts above to bait you into thread derail. People fear criticism because they fear losing Lotro, yet fear is proof of doubt.
    It is good to see that my post has not gone unnotticed by people who have similar beliefs. To speak up like this is from a place of strong passion for the game and I want to be in it for the long haul.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaine6 View Post
    It is good to see that my post has not gone unnotticed by people who have similar beliefs. To speak up like this is from a place of strong passion for the game and I want to be in it for the long haul.
    I wrote something similar to Aelir's post but not as detailed and my conclusion was as well that they don't have time/resources anymore for things vital for a thriving mmo. Which worries me enormously because Lotro has been more than a game but something like a companion for me for the past (nearly) 8 years.
    There's some good in this world, and it is worth fighting for.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaine6 View Post
    Developers stop wasting time on streams, musical parties and organising small events,
    Not sure what this means, tbh. As far as I know, only Cordovan (as in only SSG employee) streams (for an hour, once a week) and he's not a dev. He does the same for DDO I believe.

    Music events are all community organised, as are other events such as Harnkegger Games. The only SSG input to the last two is GMs may (or may not) hang out and keep an eye on behaviour and the donation of some items for prizes. If music or other community events are streamed it's often done either by Cordovan alone or with the help of Lotrostream volunteers. Plus they get a plug in the Beacon (again, not a dev thing). So I don't see how any of this can be seen as taking away from dev time.

    If the OP means things like the latest Skirmish event or festivals I don't think that's a waste as many people enjoy them, as can be seen by how many people run around doing them and how things such as the new area for Harvestmath Festival and the seasonal instances were generally well received. (Yes, I know the new Skirm thing is a bit buggy and was maybe rushed, but that's a different problem.)

    I do, however, agree that communication could probably be improved in certain areas.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by zaine6 View Post
    The returning and new players need a real future to look forward to, not just fluff that only the die-hard fans can chew on such as these community events.
    The Dwarf-Holds zone, with 3 mans, 6 man, soloable versions, resource instances and a new Raid with new T3, along with another raid coming with Minas Morgul, all these are fluff? SSG has a real job trying to balance the content to please all types of people. There was a long span of 'no new raids' and now they are coming out pretty regularly. EVERYONE wants new stuff, not just the raiders.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaine6 View Post
    I have returned to this game just over a month now and I have been checking these forums, twitter and facebook daily and I have had hardly any tidbits of news of what is under development...
    Welcome back! If you've been gone for so long I imagine you probably have a lot of game to get caught up on, since we've been adding to it for the last twelve years! But I totally get wanting to know what lies ahead; one of the perks of working on the game is knowing that ahead of time, since I've been working on the next update since before the last one came out. Know that we've been busy.

    Even then we're always reading the forums, though. Keep the feedback coming -- I'm particularly interested in story feedback, but everyone on the team has their own spheres of interest and it's always appreciated.

    MoL

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Starliteyes View Post
    The Dwarf-Holds zone, with 3 mans, 6 man, soloable versions, resource instances and a new Raid with new T3, along with another raid coming with Minas Morgul, all these are fluff? SSG has a real job trying to balance the content to please all types of people. There was a long span of 'no new raids' and now they are coming out pretty regularly. EVERYONE wants new stuff, not just the raiders.
    One bad raid a year is not enough to even slightly maintain a raiding community, which is why such a community doesn't exist anymore as most have quit. There needs to be sufficient content for everyone yet there seems to be a huge influx of good and enjoyable content for a certain portion of the population, while everyone else receives half assed "when we get to it we'll do it" type content (I.E pvmp, raiding community or literally anyone who wants to gear their toon)

    Anyway, the devs in a game like lotro need to stop keeping secrets about content. I'm ok with MoL keeping the next story line a secret but when a dev decides to make some major stat overhauls in the game or create major mechanics in raids the community should be aware of them before they occur simply to save time. A company as small as SSG should not be in the business of risking idea in order to see if they work out.
    44 Bulldog

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    Welcome back! If you've been gone for so long I imagine you probably have a lot of game to get caught up on, since we've been adding to it for the last twelve years! But I totally get wanting to know what lies ahead; one of the perks of working on the game is knowing that ahead of time, since I've been working on the next update since before the last one came out. Know that we've been busy.

    Even then we're always reading the forums, though. Keep the feedback coming -- I'm particularly interested in story feedback, but everyone on the team has their own spheres of interest and it's always appreciated.

    MoL
    As I Said No offence. It just seems to be purely arbitrary what thread is getting a response and what Kind of response.
    Good example: Minstrels cried loud out and got a really quick response and fix. Warden tank are crying for years and...Well.
    Same with the anvill t2 Boss 1 thread. We got a response but it did not clearify anything.
    Last edited by Hildilas; Feb 12 2019 at 11:11 AM.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurinuor View Post
    Producer's letter is in the final stage, Cordovan said on Cord of the rings on last friday. It's written and has to be translated and needs an official approvement before. We will get the 2019's plan soon.
    I thought Severlin (the producer) was also the owner of SSG?

 

 
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