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  1. #1

    Is skill automation legal?

    I was given this link by a friend to help learn how to beat Anvil T2:
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/372961492

    And another friend noticed that the champ's skills and swappies are automated.

    So this begs two questions:

    1. Is this kind of skill and swappie automation legal?

    2. What plugin is he using?

    The DPS is amazing, so no doubt the automation is helping greatly.

    I have read the ToS that third party software is not allowed.
    However this can't strictly include plugins, as nearly every raider uses plugins like buffbars and combat analysis.

    Can someone knowledgeable please answer my questions?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    I was given this link by a friend to help learn how to beat Anvil T2:
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/372961492

    And another friend noticed that the champ's skills and swappies are automated.

    So this begs two questions:

    1. Is this kind of skill and swappie automation legal?

    2. What plugin is he using?

    The DPS is amazing, so no doubt the automation is helping greatly.

    I have read the ToS that third party software is not allowed.
    However this can't strictly include plugins, as nearly every raider uses plugins like buffbars and combat analysis.

    Can someone knowledgeable please answer my questions?
    Not really more "knowledgeable" than you but xD:

    1.I've never read a confirmation but someone once said it is not allowed and most tools are blocked by the game. But not all. Never read a statement by ssg though.
    2. It is theoretically possible to do this with a mmorpg mouse ...you consider a good roation..you lay your skills etc on 1-25 on that mouse and you just click very fast through it without really looking at your skills anymore.


    You need to look up a plugin by yourself because as I said I am not sure If this is allowed and If it is not allowed it is forbidden to post sth like this here.

  3. #3
    It is legal,as long as you are at PC and dont use it for cheating/exploiting.This can be done without it so its fine.Cord answered that on streat few weeks ago and I think its writen somewhere tho I cba to find it.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    I was given this link by a friend to help learn how to beat Anvil T2:
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/372961492

    And another friend noticed that the champ's skills and swappies are automated.

    So this begs two questions:

    1. Is this kind of skill and swappie automation legal?

    2. What plugin is he using?

    The DPS is amazing, so no doubt the automation is helping greatly.

    I have read the ToS that third party software is not allowed.
    However this can't strictly include plugins, as nearly every raider uses plugins like buffbars and combat analysis.

    Can someone knowledgeable please answer my questions?
    +Cordovan said in a recent stream that macros are allowed, but it depends on attendance and intent. For attendance you must be at the keyboard and watching the game. For intent, are you intending to exploit or gain an advantage. Using it in a raid or pvmp seems like the wrong intent to me, but the final say would be from a GM who would review the particular circumstances.

  5. #5
    if its allowed to use stuff like this, they should finally implement the ability to chain skills and stuff like that with keybinds ingame.

    but yea, grey zone.

    its unfair, if its allowed to use stuff to advantage ingame that cant be used with normal equipment and ingame features.
    But unfair doesnt relate to forbidden... and forbidden doesnt relate to anything being done by ssg...
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    And another friend noticed that the champ's skills and swappies are automated.
    What is the proof that they are automated? I do the same thing but as a hunter. I use my mouse buttons to swap my weapons. These are manual swaps.

    2. What plugin is he using?
    He is using WeaponAssist. All it does is alert you/highlight what weapons you have equipped. It's just a visual thing.

    https://www.lotrointerface.com/downl...ponAssist.html

    Now, it could be possible that he's firing off skills in a certain rotation using mouse or keyboard macros... that I am not sure of. As a hunter I have to look for certain procs before I fire off skills so I can't really automate that.
    Chromite/Grumbletocks/Grumbletunes/Schrade on Landroval, Chromite on Arkenstone, Appendage on Brandywine

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChromiteSwiftpaw View Post
    What is the proof that they are automated? I do the same thing but as a hunter. I use my mouse buttons to swap my weapons. These are manual swaps.



    He is using WeaponAssist. All it does is alert you/highlight what weapons you have equipped. It's just a visual thing.

    https://www.lotrointerface.com/downl...ponAssist.html

    Now, it could be possible that he's firing off skills in a certain rotation using mouse or keyboard macros... that I am not sure of. As a hunter I have to look for certain procs before I fire off skills so I can't really automate that.
    My champ, or any of my classes for that matter, cannot do what is shown in the video. I've no idea how to create a skill slot with the letters E and O on them, and then hit them, to make 7 or 8 skills fire in super fast succession. I wish I did but, I don't. My champ could probably get through one rotation, by the the time three rotations have passed in this video.

    I've no idea if it's legal or not, nor do I care, because, each to their own it would be nice to be able to play that way though that's for sure.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    I've no idea how to create a skill slot with the letters E and O on them, and then hit them, to make 7 or 8 skills fire in super fast succession. I wish I did

    Mhhh? You can actually go to settings (key assignment) and just change every Quickslot to the Key you want. I only got a 12 button mouse but every button=one quickslot.
    I mean what is shown in the video is a different level of course but changing a slot to "E" and "O" is really easy and also helpful

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hildilas View Post
    Mhhh? You can actually go to settings (key assignment) and just change every Quickslot to the Key you want. I only got a 12 button mouse but every button=one quickslot.
    I mean what is shown in the video is a different level of course but changing a slot to "E" and "O" is really easy and also helpful
    Yes, I know how to do key binding. I know how to assign different things to quickslots too (example, how to put an emote on a key). I don't know how to make a skill icon with the letter E on it, and then have a whole rotation go off, real fast if I hit it, which is what it looks like is happening in the video (it looks like one key, is driving about 7 skills in one press).
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Yes, I know how to do key binding. I know how to assign different things to quickslots too (example, how to put an emote on a key). I don't know how to make a skill icon with the letter E on it, and then have a whole rotation go off, real fast if I hit it, which is what it looks like is happening in the video (it looks like one key, is driving about 7 skills in one press).
    Yes, this looks like an automated sequence, because of the speed and precision.
    If anyone can explain if this is legal, and if so, how you do it, that would be great.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    My champ, or any of my classes for that matter, cannot do what is shown in the video. I've no idea how to create a skill slot with the letters E and O on them, and then hit them, to make 7 or 8 skills fire in super fast succession. I wish I did but, I don't. My champ could probably get through one rotation, by the the time three rotations have passed in this video.

    I've no idea if it's legal or not, nor do I care, because, each to their own it would be nice to be able to play that way though that's for sure.
    The letters you see on the weapons are from the WeaponAssist plugin. For example, I label my Heartseeker bow with an H and my regular DPS bow with a D. That is all you're seeing. It's not a key assigned to those weapons... the highlights AROUND the weapons show you which ones are currently equipped.

    Gertess is probably just using a mouse macro to swap multiple things in just a few milliseconds when pressing certain mouse buttons, which is completely allowed by SSG.

    You can see his 1 handed weapons on v and "Butto..." and his 2hander on S+8

    So, for example, if I were to make button macros for this I'd do it on my forward/backward thumb buttons (forward/background browser pages is the default OS setting for those...)

    So on one button I'd do {Shift 8} for 2hander
    On the other button I'd do {v} + {Button Whatever}

    This way you use your mouse hand to control your weapon switching and mouselooking while leaving your other hand free for executing your attack skills.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Yes, I know how to do key binding. I know how to assign different things to quickslots too (example, how to put an emote on a key). I don't know how to make a skill icon with the letter E on it, and then have a whole rotation go off, real fast if I hit it, which is what it looks like is happening in the video (it looks like one key, is driving about 7 skills in one press).
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    Yes, this looks like an automated sequence, because of the speed and precision.
    If anyone can explain if this is legal, and if so, how you do it, that would be great.

    How to do it is usually more or less easy: you need a gaming mouse or keyboard with special keys which you can program in the way you wish.

    Such keyboards and mouses have also a macro manager with them which allows to execute more buttons actions with just one press of the assigned key to the given macro.

    E.g., if the rotation consists of 7 skills and animation time of each skill is 0,001s you can finish theoretically the rotation within 0,007s but no human has such quick reactions so it is manually not possible. But it is possible through macro, because you program e.g. like this:

    press skill 1
    wait 0,001s
    press skill 2
    wait 0,001s
    ...

    Thus the whole sequence is executed through program with pressing just one button.


    If it is legal to fight in this way I have no idea.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estelrandir View Post
    How to do it is usually more or less easy: you need a gaming mouse or keyboard with special keys which you can program in the way you wish.

    Such keyboards and mouses have also a macro manager with them which allows to execute more buttons actions with just one press of the assigned key to the given macro.

    E.g., if the rotation consists of 7 skills and animation time of each skill is 0,001s you can finish theoretically the rotation within 0,007s but no human has such quick reactions so it is manually not possible. But it is possible through macro, because you program e.g. like this:

    press skill 1
    wait 0,001s
    press skill 2
    wait 0,001s
    ...

    Thus the whole sequence is executed through program with pressing just one button.


    If it is legal to fight in this way I have no idea.
    Ahh, that would explain it then. Not for me i'm afraid, I'll stick to my bog standard keyboard and mouse, and hit each skill individually. More challenging. Less boring.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Estelrandir View Post
    How to do it is usually more or less easy: you need a gaming mouse or keyboard with special keys which you can program in the way you wish.

    Such keyboards and mouses have also a macro manager with them which allows to execute more buttons actions with just one press of the assigned key to the given macro.

    E.g., if the rotation consists of 7 skills and animation time of each skill is 0,001s you can finish theoretically the rotation within 0,007s but no human has such quick reactions so it is manually not possible. But it is possible through macro, because you program e.g. like this:

    press skill 1
    wait 0,001s
    press skill 2
    wait 0,001s
    ...

    Thus the whole sequence is executed through program with pressing just one button.


    If it is legal to fight in this way I have no idea.
    IMO Whether or not it is breaking the rules is pretty much irrelevant. SSG are not about to ban people from using programmable mice and keyboards with macro functions even if they actually had any way of enforcing it. Just guessing here but knowing how companies love to sue at the drop of a hat there might even be legal repercussions from hardware manufacturers if they did.
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  15. #15
    I see no proof of automation in the video - just a person, who is very good at using his class to its best potential by chaining fast/immediate skills in a fluid rotation and utilizing weapon swaps for different skills. You can even see the key binds assigned to his weapons on the toolbars. Or maybe he is using automated support - but again, no proof of one or the other can be seen in the video.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothrir View Post
    I see no proof of automation in the video
    Unless you can come up with a really good explanation of your analysis, I would say that any claim about seeing or not seeing keyboard macros in a video like this is wrong.
    The only possibility to detect macros is to find things that are too good to be true, like too many perfect repetitions, too identical timing or use of physically impossible keyboard/mouse control combinations. All within a compressed 30 fps video, which is IMO not fast enough.

    Like others said, it is not worth to discuss it from the perspective if this is allowed or should be banned. Keyboard macros are not detectable without client-side anti-cheat software and even this is hard without going too deep into OS structures that no user mode software should touch.

    The question that comes up though is how open the community should handle this. Again the game has to be designed with some assumption in mind, which should IMO be a bare metal game. No plugins, no macros. Anyone that does differently is allowed to do so, but cannot be the target audience for design. This would be different if macro keyboards would be in "recommended system specifications" instead of a silence zone. Same for plugins, which are not really communicated and can therefore not be considered as standard (although almost every video shows a few).

    In the end it would IMO be the best that SSG gives a statement (instead of having a silence zone) and community talk becomes open instead of having "special secret knowledge" that is used by too many.

    Personal addition: I consider weapon swaps as ridiculous. They are a measure for how gear oriented this game really is. Not even talking about any RPG perspective.

  17. #17
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    I like how we've reached a point where using a perfectly legal plugin to streamline gameplay is considered "3rd party software which is against ToS" by some people who don't even know that weapon swapping in-combat is allowed in the game. Stay in your lane, don't talk about things that you're not qualified to give opinions on.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    I was given this link by a friend to help learn how to beat Anvil T2:
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/372961492

    And another friend noticed that the champ's skills and swappies are automated.

    So this begs two questions:

    1. Is this kind of skill and swappie automation legal?

    2. What plugin is he using?

    The DPS is amazing, so no doubt the automation is helping greatly.

    I have read the ToS that third party software is not allowed.
    However this can't strictly include plugins, as nearly every raider uses plugins like buffbars and combat analysis.

    Can someone knowledgeable please answer my questions?
    I just want to clarify that im not using any macros or Programms at all,
    if i would use makros why would i use weapon assist to track my equiped LI's?

    Im just using it to see if and when im making mistakes.
    Gertes

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenArleth View Post
    I like how we've reached a point where using a perfectly legal plugin to streamline gameplay is considered "3rd party software which is against ToS" by some people who don't even know that weapon swapping in-combat is allowed in the game. Stay in your lane, don't talk about things that you're not qualified to give opinions on.
    Only . . . . nobody has said or considered that. It's been quite an educational thread, as in some of us didn't know there was a plugin for weapon swaps - though, we do know that weapons can be swapped. You're making quite a few assumptions.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    I just want to clarify that im not using any macros or Programms at all,
    if i would use makros why would i use weapon assist to track my equiped LI's?

    Im just using it to see if and when im making mistakes.
    Hello mate

    Just a ask for you.

    Switch 1 twohanded weapon <=> 2 x onehanded weapon (for proc +5 percent crit on Wild Attack i guess) is make with pushing 2/3 keyboard key each time ?

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    Hello mate

    Just a ask for you.

    Switch 1 twohanded weapon <=> 2 x onehanded weapon (for proc +5 percent crit on Wild Attack i guess) is make with pushing 2/3 keyboard key each time ?
    I have my two onehanded weapons on v and b, so i can press most of the times both buttons with just one finger.
    Gertes

 

 

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