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  1. #1

    New VIP Perk Idea

    Most (maybe all?) class skill deeds have a daily cap for progression on completing them, what if a new VIP perk removed that daily cap and let VIPs progress their class deeds as much as they want per day. Would be a nice VIP perk, not game breaking at all, and wouldn't require much effort at all to implement it (the code already exists, when you use a deed x2 multiplier it removes the cap).

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    I would love this idea as well. Especially when some of the abilities take forever to use like DNF for the Rune-Keeper.
    Varkking - Dwarf Rune-Keeper - Devout of the Lidless Eye - Anor Server

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varkking View Post
    I would love this idea as well. Especially when some of the abilities take forever to use like DNF for the Rune-Keeper.
    Or setting hunter traps - grr

    Good idea!
    “...and he lived happily ever after, to the end of his days”

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    In the end this is not really VIP perk, but one more Ex-VIP perk of many. It could be improved by having permanent deed acceleration on these skills. Still this needs to be done only once per char.
    IMO VIP perks should bring continuous advantage, as they require continuous payment.

    The other problem here is that these deeds are IMO broken in a few cases, so providing a fix for VIP only is probably not a good strategy. The store works with "pay for convenience", which is a balance between having sufficient inconvenience to make people pay vs. having sufficiently small inconvenience that people continue playing.

    Class trait points are gated behind lengthy deeds (like here, especially for skills that are not on common trees, but also MT meta and BBs), but also behind acquisition of content (non-epic quest arcs, MT meta and BB points) and a lot of questing (regular and epic quest arcs).
    Especially for using off-tree skills (which are present in build recommendations for many classes) having or not having 20 points makes a large difference. This will again bring up the topic how good it is to have optional large advantages that result in the usual discussion of "facerolling easy" vs. "too hard" between players with lots of time (that usually have everything) and those with less time.

    Personally I would wish that this game has a consistent path for "optional" advantages (which should expire with every cap increase) and persistent advantages (which shouldn't be that hard to get), to bring the flock together every year or so. (The third group is irrelevant advantages, but those are not really worth discussing.)

    In that sense I think that connecting class deeds to VIP may be a good idea in a working trait point system (=convenience), but not today (=fixing problems that shouldn't be there first place)

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinx View Post
    In the end this is not really VIP perk, but one more Ex-VIP perk of many. It could be improved by having permanent deed acceleration on these skills. Still this needs to be done only once per char.
    IMO VIP perks should bring continuous advantage, as they require continuous payment.

    The other problem here is that these deeds are IMO broken in a few cases, so providing a fix for VIP only is probably not a good strategy. The store works with "pay for convenience", which is a balance between having sufficient inconvenience to make people pay vs. having sufficiently small inconvenience that people continue playing.

    Class trait points are gated behind lengthy deeds (like here, especially for skills that are not on common trees, but also MT meta and BBs), but also behind acquisition of content (non-epic quest arcs, MT meta and BB points) and a lot of questing (regular and epic quest arcs).
    Especially for using off-tree skills (which are present in build recommendations for many classes) having or not having 20 points makes a large difference. This will again bring up the topic how good it is to have optional large advantages that result in the usual discussion of "facerolling easy" vs. "too hard" between players with lots of time (that usually have everything) and those with less time.

    Personally I would wish that this game has a consistent path for "optional" advantages (which should expire with every cap increase) and persistent advantages (which shouldn't be that hard to get), to bring the flock together every year or so. (The third group is irrelevant advantages, but those are not really worth discussing.)

    In that sense I think that connecting class deeds to VIP may be a good idea in a working trait point system (=convenience), but not today (=fixing problems that shouldn't be there first place)
    I think we all agree that the trait system needs a rework in how they are acquired but this seems to be the easiest solution for implementation for this game. It gives them potential for an extra VIP here and there for those that don't want to grind all day skills that aren't good or can only be used in a fellowship every five minutes, and it gives those who have been paying or have paid a way to get a temporary boost.
    Varkking - Dwarf Rune-Keeper - Devout of the Lidless Eye - Anor Server

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ramulus View Post
    Most (maybe all?) class skill deeds have a daily cap for progression on completing them, what if a new VIP perk removed that daily cap and let VIPs progress their class deeds as much as they want per day. Would be a nice VIP perk, not game breaking at all, and wouldn't require much effort at all to implement it (the code already exists, when you use a deed x2 multiplier it removes the cap).

    Thoughts?
    Never happen. A item is designed for it and buyable in store. They won't private themselves from money's pool (may i remember you lootbox ?). Bonus is low to promote vip. But Vip need improvement because actualy for core loyal and regular player there is not real benefit to buy it. Pvpm is dead forever.

    They doesn't care anymore about us. Just about our money. This is a really shame for "indie" dev.

    The first think they should do is renewal a confidence pact with their players because we still love lotro. Better vip better bug tracking....etc They started with new cluster and betrayed us with lootbox.

    Lotro is going to his end.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varkking View Post
    It gives them potential for an extra VIP here and there
    A deed accelerator is sold for ~$1 and we can get 8 of them for less than a month's sub.

    VIP doesn't need another cherry on top, it needs a cake below the cherries.
    Currently any fully unlocked ex-VIP buying LP gets a better deal.
    In the end current VIPs struggle with exactly the same inconveniences as F2P. I remember the old times when unlocking a QP required to grind and was an inconvenience. Now? Ridiculous. The current grind are ash/keys, SoEs and solvents, all available at the store for our convenience. They make no difference between VIPs and F2P/premium, as the stipend is used up by 2 keys, which is nothing.

    I do not think VIPs have a problem with buying 6 deed accelerators with their stipend, they have a problem that getting the grind to an acceptable level eats up their stipend 2-3x as fast as they earn it.

    I have no problem with the suggestion here. It will definitely bring a handful of extra VIPs here and there, but it is IMO not worth doing.

    In terms of implementation I would guess that simply reducing the required deed counts would be less effort.

  8. #8
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    Moria
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinx View Post
    A deed accelerator is sold for ~$1 and we can get 8 of them for less than a month's sub.

    VIP doesn't need another cherry on top, it needs a cake below the cherries.
    Currently any fully unlocked ex-VIP buying LP gets a better deal.
    In the end current VIPs struggle with exactly the same inconveniences as F2P. I remember the old times when unlocking a QP required to grind and was an inconvenience. Now? Ridiculous. The current grind are ash/keys, SoEs and solvents, all available at the store for our convenience. They make no difference between VIPs and F2P/premium, as the stipend is used up by 2 keys, which is nothing.

    I do not think VIPs have a problem with buying 6 deed accelerators with their stipend, they have a problem that getting the grind to an acceptable level eats up their stipend 2-3x as fast as they earn it.

    I have no problem with the suggestion here. It will definitely bring a handful of extra VIPs here and there, but it is IMO not worth doing.

    In terms of implementation I would guess that simply reducing the required deed counts would be less effort.
    Make it so that there is no limit on the skill ups and that they are at a rate of 2x for all VIPs. Allow the store bought accelerators to stack with that and there you go. Now you might VIP and still use the accelerator on top of it.
    Varkking - Dwarf Rune-Keeper - Devout of the Lidless Eye - Anor Server

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varkking View Post
    Make it so that there is no limit on the skill ups and that they are at a rate of 2x for all VIPs. Allow the store bought accelerators to stack with that and there you go. Now you might VIP and still use the accelerator on top of it.
    A bigger cherry, but the cake is still missing. If VIPs could do this deed by using the skill a single time, it wouldn't change the problem.
    It is a difference if they need to use a skill 300 times or if they need to do a few hundred dailies to get their ILI capped. One is pressing a button, the other one is a full quest.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinx View Post
    A bigger cherry, but the cake is still missing. If VIPs could do this deed by using the skill a single time, it wouldn't change the problem.
    It is a difference if they need to use a skill 300 times or if they need to do a few hundred dailies to get their ILI capped. One is pressing a button, the other one is a full quest.
    Are you trying to get to the point where the VIPs would have the skill deeds auto completed as part of being VIP?
    Varkking - Dwarf Rune-Keeper - Devout of the Lidless Eye - Anor Server

  11. #11
    I'm playing this game exclusively F2P and I spent a good amount of money to do so(all areas unlocked, expansions, classes etc.) but I still would love to invest into VIP once in a while just to support the game. Every time I come to the point, though, I'm asking myself: Why should I do so? I can level with ease and I have access to almost everything. Buying new content costs a pittance. There's absolutely no reason to do it. In the end I don't think it will be easy to improve the VIP package to make it more interesting to players like me but I'd love to see some initiative from SSG here.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varkking View Post
    Are you trying to get to the point where the VIPs would have the skill deeds auto completed as part of being VIP?
    No. I am saying that the class deed grind is tiny in comparison to the other grinds. VIPs are not left alone with class grind, but with all the other grinds that come later and are *much* bigger. There pay for convenience is gone.

    IMO a VIP package should be a sufficient investment to play the game. It shouldn't be VIP *and* this or that payment. The biggest problem there is the L100+ grind that requires these *additional* payments that cannot be covered by the stipend. Things like class deeds can be easily covered with the stipend.
    Last edited by thinx; Feb 11 2019 at 05:05 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    656
    Quote Originally Posted by Varkking View Post
    Are you trying to get to the point where the VIPs would have the skill deeds auto completed as part of being VIP?
    Yeah what is meant is class deeds are a tiny blip in the early life of a character. Maybe you are going through those now and they feel like a huge drag, but for overwhelming majority, they are something long past and forgotten. At most, it will get people to sub for a month and then drop it. That is what a lot of people do already for various other things.

    The game needs a constant strong incentive to maintain VIP, and while this change is surely not gonna hurt, its inpact on the bottom line will be negligible.

  14. #14
    Here is a VIP perk that everyone can agree with:
    Permanent skill/slayer deed boosts

    I was going to also add permanent +100% exp boosters but then there are people, like myself, who do not like exp boosters at all.
    I guess, make a permanent exp booster toggle skill so people who are in a rush to level up asap could have it their way.
    And then people who don't like exp boosters can just simply leave it inactive.

 

 

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