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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Legendary Server Failures - Bad Pve/No PvMP - #LOGFOR6

    Hey folks Ramsay/Aeradil here..

    FIRSTLY - JUST WANT TO SAY!
    'Devout of the Lidless Eye' has 0 involvement in this post or my decision, most even tried to talk me out of doing this. This is 100% my thing, my decision, and as such do not view this post/protest/voice of concern as a 'DotLE' view/concern. This is my own concern and the concern of many within the community.


    Okay so ive just made a huge ranting video and I hope the community watches/listens to it. I hope you watch/listen to it all, and I hope you participate in my little protest.
    (BE WARNED)
    there is use of language within my video, There is warning on the video telling you such also. so please do not watch if you do not like hearing that. This language is solely in terms of my argument and is just because I am very passionate about lotro and about the legendary server. my use of language is not offensive or insulting I do not target anybody out individually. my whole video is about the failures, and what needs to be done to fix them.
    Hopeflly you watch SSG. You need to start listening to us.
    (I do apologize for my negativity and my language - but I don't know how else to get you to actually listen to us, to actually fix the legendary server before it dies. which it will)

    Link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YsDz-XhdEU

    To get SSG to listen to the legendary server community and realize they have to stop treating us like idiots.
    I.E no tier 2/3 loot on t2/3 instances despite them saying there is/will be
    I.E essence gear being BiS at 50 and will be at 60
    I.E literally nothing to do other than stand around and emote when your instance locked
    I.E no pvmp and no pvmp at 60.......................

    please watch this video guys, watch it all.

    If you are going to join me in my log off for 6 days campaign then please reply to this thread saying

    #LOGFOR6

    Dont log on again till the first of Febuary. let them see how much we care about pvmp, about the fact they need to fix pve, about the fact they have got to stop treating us as shiny green $ bills and actually like customers. They need to listen to their community. They need to actually care about us. You treat your raiders like utter trash by giving them nothing to do. We don't care about festivals or mounts or shiny pets. We want a reason to run raids. we want something to do when we cant run raids. please. Start listening to us.
    Hopefully the community bands together and joins me on this little protest..

    More importantly, I hope I don't get banned for actually trying to do something for the community and to help you realize that right now, you are failing us, and treating us like utter #### because you constantly make the same mistakes or constantly ignore us when we tell you that there is mistakes, or when we tell you how to improve things.
    DEVOUT OF THE LIDLESS EYE
    Ramsay Bolton
    Servers First Tier 3 12 man Rift | Servers First Tier 3 6 man Rift
    www.twitch.tv/dotle_ramsaybolton - www.Youtube.com/dotleramsaybolton


  2. #2
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    #LOGFOR6

    I got your back on this. No PvP at all is a deal-breaker for me.

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    I too optimistic about the legendary servers upon launch and my initial climb to 50. I was placed on Ithil due to the massive response and queue times on Anor. After hitting level 50 on my guard I realized there isn't really anything different, and won't be anything different about these servers compared to the 120 servers. Simply put, it was a quick project to generate hype and revenue that was devoted very little dev resource time. SSG already has a skeleton crew maintaining a game this massive in scope, we were foolish for thinking any real resources would be devoted to legendary servers.

    As far as PvMP I knew from day 1 that we would never see it on these servers. All statements concerning PvMP were cryptic. How could you expect them to scale or balance PvMP on a server that has regular level cap increases when they can't even handle PvMP on the main servers.

    Essence gear is the reason I dumped my legendary experience. Total garbage system that I want to get away from.
    Hurth, Warden
    Barst, Guardian
    Xiox, Reaver

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murtanion View Post
    Essence gear is the reason I dumped my legendary experience. Total garbage system that I want to get away from.
    Agreed. Essence is absolute nonsense and completely takes away from the ability of the player to min/max their character in any viable way. I've seen Eowene on Anor running constant farms for essence gear, well beyond the amount of time I could ever handle for one grind, and last I saw him at the south Bree gate even he didn't have full blue pieces. That sort of effort/time vs reward scale is messed up and takes away any real reason for people to run raids for loot when the best stuff isn't going to be on the radar for pretty much anyone.

    The poison introduced at later stages of the game is slowly seeping in to the early stages, to the point where even at L50 cap there's problems.

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Murtanion View Post
    Essence gear is the reason I dumped my legendary experience. Total garbage system that I want to get away from.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    Agreed. Essence is absolute nonsense and completely takes away from the ability of the player to min/max their character in any viable way.
    Agreed x2

    I came back to LOTRO purely for the LS and brought my partner with me. I'm a founder, she's not. I enjoyed the accidental challenge of the powerful DoT while it lasted, but once that was "fixed" (sooner than I had expected) my interest began to wane and I only played when she wanted to. Then when I saw the first LFF for an essence farm, my enjoyment all but vanished on the spot. When I saw that, I realised that even the old end-game itemisation of SoA was well and truly ruined. There used to many viable end game builds gearwise, with no single source vastly superior to everything else. Essence would ruin all that. Barely played since then - my highest is still 26.

    I never expected PvMP on the LS. Used to play a lot (far too much) from 50-65. Still a fair bit at 75, less at 85 and none at all since HD. I'd be all over a genuine recreation of 50 or 65 cap moors, but I can't see that ever happening.

    That said, SSG could certainly open the moors on the LS if they wanted to. Not that it would work all that well. All it would require is to allow the current scaling system to bump freeps to 120. Of course (assuming the moors scaling is as awful as that for boring battles) this would leave 50 freeps seriously underpowered. This could then be fixed with a simple global buff to balance the moors (similar in concept to the -xp buff added for the LS only) that could vary per level cap change. However, I suspect this would also reveal what a horrid joke essence gear is - either the buff would make normally geared 50 freeps competitive and essence filled freeps absurdly OP - or if balanced for essence gear, it would gate the moors behind a crazy PvE essence gear grind.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    New Mexico, USA
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    #LOGFOR6


    Me and my kin are with you. Half already canceled sub. Hope this gets fixed
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a000000072904/01006/signature.png]Airaen[/charsig]

  7. #7
    why do you guys on the LS care about pvmp? no one pvmp's on the regular servers.

    and everyone knew that all you were getting on the LS was the same game just re-booted to day 1 at launch, NOTHING else changed.

    its inevitable that you're going to end up in the same place via all the same mechanics and loot rules.

    and why worry about min/maxing gear? the rift has already been 3 manned its obviously not needed for content

    standing around emoting and "enjoying the journey" are what the LS are there for.

    caveat emptor
    Last edited by subadar; Jan 24 2019 at 09:20 AM.
    .

    Mortem Tyrannis

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    I was extremely excited about the legendary servers when they were announced, I was initially "glass half full", posted a very long Q&A thread and got a stream with cordovan, tybur and red panda set up thanks to that thread.

    And yet, several minutes into the stream, my glass half full went glass empty.

    They have taken the normal servers, given us reduced Xp gain, level capped at 50, and added a few invisible walls. Nothing what so ever difficult to implement or change, and as I've said before on other threads - a cash grab. A wonderful idea completely ruined by this companies lack of communication and understanding of its communities desires.

    Just like the normal servers, I expect nothing from this company anymore and yet I am still disappointed from update to update.

    I stopped playing the legendary servers before Christmas because I wanted no part in the ridiculous essence armour grind. Seems I was right to do so.

    #LOGFOR6

  9. #9
    When i realized essencegear existed on the LS i stopped playing there. Its enough that i have to do it on reg server. I dont like it at all but this is the Lotro we have today.

    And if no pvp is added i guess LS will die!

  10. #10
    #logfor6

  11. #11
    You guys should #logfor12 , that way we wont have to listen to the bleating of a tiny minority constantly for a little longer.
    "Argle-bargle morble whoosh?"

    .

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by YvainBlakhart View Post
    You guys should #logfor12 , that way we wont have to listen to the bleating of a tiny minority constantly for a little longer.
    And please make sure they include logging into and posting on the forums for those days they are logged out.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by YvainBlakhart View Post
    You guys should #logfor12 , that way we wont have to listen to the bleating of a tiny minority constantly for a little longer.

    Or maybe if SSG continue to literally lie its customers by saying t2/3 will have scaled item levels up from t1, which they dont.

    Or maybe actually give us an actual date for pvp, even if its 65/75 its actually something to look forward too, other than just meh, pvp will be sometime, but keep subbing, paying and playing along we will get round to it sometime.

    Or actually balancing the end-game content. another words nadhin not being best in slot, so those who are actually good at the game can have the BiS gear, which is why we even raid in the first place. you raid to have gear that most others cannot get. Where as those who can do t3 have literally 0 bragging rights other than a dumb title.

    And those with literally infinite playtime like me, and lucky with rng like me, get essence gear which is BiS by miles over everything.

    - If they did these things, we wouldn't whine.

    Instead overnight they lost loads of subs, and if they dont fix these things and give us dates/and a road map. they will lose more. These legendary servers will be dead before mirkwood if they dont actually treat us with respect. Literally keeping your player-base in the dark while asking them for money, and literally lying to them, is a certain way to lose customers.
    DEVOUT OF THE LIDLESS EYE
    Ramsay Bolton
    Servers First Tier 3 12 man Rift | Servers First Tier 3 6 man Rift
    www.twitch.tv/dotle_ramsaybolton - www.Youtube.com/dotleramsaybolton


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinara View Post
    And please make sure they include logging into and posting on the forums for those days they are logged out.
    Why take a small protest over a game's direction so personally?

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  15. #15
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    The PvP thing I have no comment on. I don't play it, but as long as they can include it without it affecting PvE in any big way, I'm all for them including it on the LS for those that enjoy it.

    The essence system however, I'm really disappointed about. I find it really frustrating that the great armour pieces that were good enough back in the day - eg, crafted Lossoth, the class sets in Rivendell) are pushed into the "useless" bin because of the presence of essence gear. I'd work towards these set bonus items (yeah, Forochel kindred rep included) if I thought doing so would be worthwhile. However, the chances of getting a group invite without slotted gear, is slim, so there's not really any point.

    Essence gear ruined it. There is no point in grinding out the old systems, that were great fun, because essence gear just overshadows everything and if you don't grind it, you're for most part, not welcome in groups.

    I get it that we couldn't have a Vanilla experience because of very old coding that doesn't exist any longer, but we could have at the very least got an experience as close as possible - and that doesn't and never will include essences in any shape or form.

    They should include relevant loot in the t2/3 runs, otherwise, there is no point in running them. Not that this will affect me much, as I'm not doing the essence gear grind, so won't even be able to take part in them because, I won't get the invites. Good level 50 class sets from Rivendell should be enough, and probably are, but still, the invites won't be forthcoming because everyone wants everyone in essence gear.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    Why take a small protest over a game's direction so personally?
    I don't get these people either. If they don't feel the same that's completely fine, but why actively destroy it for others?
    What's proposed here and in other threads is a change that would massively improve the game for some and not touch anyone else. Those who don't want to participate in PvMP/Raiding won't have any negative consequences because of it...
    Why argue against it then?

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    The PvP thing I have no comment on. I don't play it, but as long as they can include it without it affecting PvE in any big way, I'm all for them including it on the LS for those that enjoy it.
    Yep, that's what I'm talking about. Why not encourage it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Frakes View Post
    I don't get these people either. If they don't feel the same that's completely fine, but why actively destroy it for others?
    What's proposed here and in other threads is a change that would massively improve the game for some and not touch anyone else. Those who don't want to participate in PvMP/Raiding won't have any negative consequences because of it...
    Why argue against it then?
    Like I said before, if they implement PvMP to LS they’ll have to rebalance the moors with each LS update, including all the gear, scaling, creepside classes traits and skills etc. Once they do it, there’s no going back. Further, it may not even be inside the scope of their capabilities and may require an entirely separate client for Lotro. It would effectively become a second game they have to maintain. This is bad for everyone that plays Lotro. Don’t mistake me, I enjoy PvMP. But it can’t be added to LS, so stop creating outrage over it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    They should include relevant loot in the t2/3 runs, otherwise, there is no point in running them. Not that this will affect me much, as I'm not doing the essence gear grind, so won't even be able to take part in them because, I won't get the invites.
    Hi, if you get crafted jewellery and a mix of the rift armour/crafted armour you are more than fine running tier 3.
    Whoever told you that you need essence gear was wrong.
    We take kinnies in with crafted gear and TLA had members using quest gear when the downed it.
    Don't listen to false elitism (people who think they know what they are talking about)
    DEVOUT OF THE LIDLESS EYE
    Ramsay Bolton
    Servers First Tier 3 12 man Rift | Servers First Tier 3 6 man Rift
    www.twitch.tv/dotle_ramsaybolton - www.Youtube.com/dotleramsaybolton


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsltn07 View Post
    Like I said before, if they implement PvMP to LS they’ll have to rebalance the moors with each LS update, including all the gear, scaling, creepside classes traits and skills etc. Once they do it, there’s no going back. Further, it may not even be inside the scope of their capabilities and may require an entirely separate client for Lotro. It would effectively become a second game they have to maintain. This is bad for everyone that plays Lotro. Don’t mistake me, I enjoy PvMP. But it can’t be added to LS, so stop creating outrage over it.
    We don't know that. We don't know if they could do it or if it's impossible or too much work. We don't know all these things because SSG does not talk to it's players.
    There would be no commotion if they'd just said from the beginning that there will never be PvMP on the legendary server. They chose the words " not at launch" which imo implies that it will come at some point (granted that could technically be when they catch up to live, a politician couldn't have said it better).

    If they don't have the capabilities to do it, they should come clean about it.

    The gear situation is another thing - I guess we all agree that it needs to be fixed and that it definitely would be within their capabilities to do so. They should talk about that too...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Frakes View Post
    We don't know that. We don't know if they could do it or if it's impossible or too much work. We don't know all these things because SSG does not talk to it's players.
    There would be no commotion if they'd just said from the beginning that there will never be PvMP on the legendary server. They chose the words " not at launch" which imo implies that it will come at some point (granted that could technically be when they catch up to live, a politician couldn't have said it better).

    If they don't have the capabilities to do it, they should come clean about it.

    The gear situation is another thing - I guess we all agree that it needs to be fixed and that it definitely would be within their capabilities to do so. They should talk about that too...
    Currently they’ve been struggling to create a semblance of class balance for the main game. It could pretty easily be assumed that entirely rescaling the moors every 3-4 months would be a Herculean task far outside their capabilities. This is ignoring the possibility that they may have to create an entirely separate launcher for the two LS servers to have mismatched PvMP for the LS side vs 120 side.

  21. #21
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    If it's so boring sitting at 50 with 'nothing' to do, then #logtilMoria.
    It is logical, in view of the times in which we live. But to be logical is not to be right, and nothing on God's earth could ever make it right!
    - Judge Dan Haywood

  22. #22
    If you watch the video of rage from eowene, then he will have Moria finished in one day and have to wait 3-4 months for Mirkwood.

    I don’t think the Legendary servers are what you all want.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymore View Post
    If it's so boring sitting at 50 with 'nothing' to do, then #logtilMoria.
    It's more than likely to happen. Seriously, there is nothing to do at end-game without PvP.

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  24. #24
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    The biggest issue with the legendary servers for me is the essence system and essence armor. It shouldn't exist till level 100, period. Either implement it RIGHT (with raid rewards and end-game content rewarding slotted armor with level appropriate stats), or do not use it AT ALL till 100 and use all the existing gear options. Preferably, I would not want to see it AT ALL before level 100. This is something they CAN change, but I don't know why they aren't doing it.

    As for PVP: Due to the current scaling system embedded in the existing (And shared) code, enabling PVP right now would just result in people being upscaled to level 120, just like on all other servers. If they want to do PVP, they probably will need to change some major backend coding to allow the scaling system to be different per server. This isn't just a level cap like PvE level 50, but a scaling system that was built in, and that might be the sticking point to do it right. The current code may also not support level 50 creeps on one server and level 120 on another.... again, slightly different than the PvE level 50 cap.

    It was already announced that it is highly unlikely that PvP would be introduced with Moria for the Legendary Servers, which if the 4-month content change holds true should be in about 6 weeks. I would not count on it being introduce to Legendary servers any time soon. They are also working on Update 24 with new Beorning Lands content for level 120, so they likely won't have the time.

    As for popularity, in recent weeks I have made regular comparisons between the social panels of Anor and Arkenstone at certain times throughout the day. Typically speaking, the amount of non-anon players on Anor is about twice the amount than on Arkenstone. In US mornings the Anor population is often almost 3 times as much as Arkenstone, but that is a logical effect from the Legendary Servers being worldwide, and that being EU prime time. I'd definitely say the servers are a success. A lot of people have left, but new people also have come. It is quite refreshing to see how many NEW players (and I mean players that saw the legendary server announcement and took it as a good time to get introduced to the game as a new player) have started playing on Anor. The newbie zones on Arkenstone are often deserted. Maybe up to Breeland/Lone Lands.... but a lot of free to play people stop playing once they realize that above level 30, they have to spend LP for content, and they don't want to do the grind. Obviously with Legendary Servers being subscription only, that content is all available.

    If no PvP is a dealbreaker, well.... good luck to ya Anor and Ithil will be hitting Moria soon, and I am thoroughly looking forward to that.

    As for other things.... its not ALL violets and roses....

    On the PvE side one of my biggest complaints is the rudeness of some players. I was leveling in the Misty Mountains a few days ago, and came upon the quest where you have to kill a bunch of goblins and get the goblin firepots and such.... so I ran over there with my LM, start killing goblins. A hunter approaches right behind me, and was like: "Wait, I can't let you have all those kills, I need them too..." and started rounding up a whole camp of goblins to kill. He was probably expecting me to jump in because I should be worried about NOT getting my kills.... but as I was fighting a warg on the side.... I decided to let him deal with his own pulls.... sure enough, the 6 or 7 goblins proved too much for the hunter, he died.... and I proceeded to clear the camp. He then gave me a tell: "Why didn't you help me?". I returned the question with: "why did you pull 7 goblins when you are a level below them?" - No answer was given.... He was worried that I was gonna get a mob before he did, so he just pulled them all to ensure he got credit..... and he failed.

    People should be more polite, that is my biggest complaint. Usually its just fine, and people just kill things together if they encounter each other for the same mobs..... but sometimes you have idiots like this one.

    Same is true for crafting nodes: If you see someone fighting something right on top of one, it should be pretty obvious that he/she intended to mine the node, so leave it alone..... there are however rude people who come in and take the node right from under your feet. I expect this to be a huge problem when Moria gets released, because all over sudden we will see a need for the next tier everywhere......similarly to the "great fight for copper" in the first week or two of the legendary server.

    Mostly though.... I find the experience to be THOROUGHLY enjoyable! I started playing in late 2010, when Free to Play was first announced. I subscribed on like day 2 and didn't look back.... but never played level 50 or level 60 end-game. I got a character to level 62 or so before Isengard was released, so the end-game quickly moved to level 75..... so I never really experienced end-game on-level at 50, 60 and 65..... so I am really looking forward to both Moria and Mirkwood. I never played the Rift or Helegrod on early levels either. Obviously I did Helegrod much later on because it scales up, but the Rift.... largely left alone. I went in there as a level 105 at some point with my only reason to get in there is to get Eldgang rep by killing stuff..... Actually completing the Rift at level 50 (and T2 Helegrod at level 50) was really cool.

    Same with the 6-mans, such as Carn Dum, Urugarth, etc.... since they are level-locked, they don't get much use on regular servers, besides maybe to get in there at higher levels for deeding. Moria will add a ton more instances plus more raids, so I expect them to be very popular. The Legendary Servers, more than anything is a great way to learn the game throughout all levels. A person that started playing in say 2014 or so..... pretty much leveled solo all the way up to 100/105 at that point before they run instances for the first time. They skip all the level-locked content at 50, 58, 60, 65, 75.... because well.... who still plays it, right? Now however.... because there is a cap, that content gets played! I see more call-outs for pugs on the Legendary server then any regular server right now. And that is a good thing.

    I am hoping to get 4 level 50s ready for Moria. If I am lucky, maybe 5....depending on time. But the Legendary Servers have made me love the game again.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eowene View Post
    Hi, if you get crafted jewellery and a mix of the rift armour/crafted armour you are more than fine running tier 3.
    Whoever told you that you need essence gear was wrong.
    We take kinnies in with crafted gear and TLA had members using quest gear when the downed it.
    Don't listen to false elitism (people who think they know what they are talking about)
    ^^ Exactly this +9000 rep

    You're welcome to come Raid with me and the <Infamy> Kinship on Ithil server, anytime as well.
    ~ Skoch


    PS: I'd join your protest as I have a dog in the fight too, but I have commitments already made. Good luck tho, and I hope your efforts do help to get this Essence Gear removed, PvMP released, and actual promised t2/t3 loot enabled, or at least increased favored loot-table RNG to make the items drop more.

 

 
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