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  1. #26
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    well i dont like questing in burrows, caves, or dungeons but i surelly do like to see as much as possible of this beutyfull made middle earth!
    even if that means going back to good old Eriador!
    it would be great for me if in every expansion or update they release a part of Eriador along with any place the company brings the action!
    lotr enthousiast since 1996, 12 years lotro player, lifetimer, Loyal member of the Spartans Kinship, now in Evernight imigrants from Eldar

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsltn07 View Post
    Did not know the bit about the Edain - Interesting! Even more cool stuff to explore, especially if there were some remnant of the Edain barrows free of evil spirits.
    Given that the barrows we've already seen in-game look hugely ancient with all manner of standing stones, dolmens, menhirs, engraved spirals and whatnot, we've already been there, done that. All you're talking about is repeating more of the same.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    I agree. Cardolan would just give us more of the same, but places like Near Harad would be nice to visit. We've not had a region with that sort of desert environment yet. Plus, with so little of it described in full detail by Tolkien, it leaves it open for the developers to have more creativity in the zone. The closer we get to the "blank edges of the map", the more space there is to fill with new ideas and aesthetics.
    Don't give them ideas about creativity else we will end up with more World eaters et el, which will probably mean us getting some kind of abominations such as the Sarlacc LOL

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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TearMaker View Post
    Don't give them ideas about creativity else we will end up with more World eaters et el, which will probably mean us getting some kind of abominations such as the Sarlacc LOL


    Oh man, don't get me started on Boba Fett's death. That's gotta be one of the lamest death's in movie history. I remember seeing that in 1983 and thinking "what the (really bad word goes here)"!

    That's almost as bad as Lucas tinkering with Han greasing Greedo.


    Ok, Star Wars rant off.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TearMaker View Post
    Don't give them ideas about creativity else we will end up with more World eaters et el, which will probably mean us getting some kind of abominations such as the Sarlacc LOL

    You know what, I'm strongly expecting them to include some sort of were-worm inspired creature to the eastern regions if they ever go that way (inspired because were-worms might not actually exist, but if they did then because they were further east than we'd ever reach). I don't doubt something resembling a Sarlacc would end up being some boss to fight, all things considered.

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  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    You know what, I'm strongly expecting them to include some sort of were-worm inspired creature to the eastern regions if they ever go that way (inspired because were-worms might not actually exist, but if they did then because they were further east than we'd ever reach). I don't doubt something resembling a Sarlacc would end up being some boss to fight, all things considered.
    Now this is I would love to see; well not a Sarlacc, but some great monstrosities that make what we've seen so far pale into insignificance. Whether what Bilbo said about the were-worms and the Last Desert to the east of east was about some real creature or imagined, it would be nice to have some nod to that. Whether they were just Dragons or Wyrms who knows? The Dwarves at the Unexpected Party didn't discount what he said, though it may have just been an expression.

    The great plains and deserts of the east and south would probably be quite vast in comparison to anything we have seen in our little corner of Middle-earth. And as we've seen with the Mûmakil from the south, it's possible creatures from these places could have been great in size compared to what we have encountered so far.

    Cheers
    “It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end… because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing… this shadow. Even darkness must pass.”

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsltn07 View Post
    Maybe it’s just me, but I would think it odd that the men of Cardolan were buried in corrupted ancient barrows from the first age? That does not sound at all likely. Who buries their dead parents or brother in some foreign creepy ruins? Rather perhaps the Edain had built some structures originally that were covered up by the barrows, and the barrows were built during the plague. This would seem much more likely.
    That's been explained already. The barrows were just tombs (some old, some new) until after Cardolan fell, and then the Witch-king sent evil spirits to dwell in them to haunt the land so that nobody could live there. The game goes overboard on the creepiness and fails to distinguish between the ancient barrows and the much newer ones the Dunedain would have made for their own honoured dead, such as the unfortunate last prince of Cardolan.

    During the plague, there'd have been so many dead that they've had to do mass burials and reusing the old barrows to house the dead would have been an obvious thing to do The creepy-looking barrows are very obviously intended to be ancient as the devs took a lot of inspiration from real-life Neolithic barrows. The standing stones and spiral engravings etc. are a dead giveaway there. When you see a dolmen (that's a big slab of stone balanced on top of other large stones) in real life, that's the eroded remnants of a really old tomb that's been there for several thousand years (in this case, to be that old they'd need to date back to when Men first inhabited those lands, but there's nothing at all unreasonable about that).

    Yes, we would see some areas we’ve previously seen, but for the most part it would be a whole new region.
    Not really new, just another bit of Arnor and hence it'd have a great deal in common with SoA (which already included all the best stuff). Plus we've already seen the Barrow-downs, and they're the scariest place in Cardolan.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsltn07 View Post
    Maybe it’s just me, but I would think it odd that the men of Cardolan were buried in corrupted ancient barrows from the first age?
    None of the barrows were corrupted until the very end of the Cardolan kingdom.
    Near the end, what remained of Cardolan had retreated to the Barrow-Downs and the Old Forest. Some of the barrows there pre-dated Cardolan by quite a lot, while others were built by the Men of Cardolan.
    The Witch-King decided that it was too much of a bother to drive them out of this last stronghold, so he summoned evil spirits that crept into the barrows in the Barrow-Downs and made them the haunted place we know of - after that the remains of Cardolan did not hold out much longer.

    Note that the evil spirits and wights were only summoned to the Barrow-downs, not into the rest of Cardolan - the Witch-King's forces had already won there.

  9. #34
    My feeling is that we will return to those areas of Enedwaith and Minhiriath that are currently unexplored on our way back through up to and after the Scouring of the Shire. I don't personally want to see the Scouring for a very long time, at least not when you look at the timescale that the game is currently running to.

    That said, another way of bringing these lands in would be to bring in the Grey Havens as a new quest hub (with Prestige Housing at Forlond and Harlond) and have people use this as a base to cleanse Enedwaith and Minhiriath, or to explore the old Dwarven and Elven Ruins that lay in the lands of Forlindon, Harlindon and the Blue Mountains.

    For the time being, I think we will be heavily tied up with what is left of Mordor and setting forth from the Strongholds of the North into the Beorning Lands and Gundabad (make it Moria sized and fill it with nasties!)

    Cheers
    “It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end… because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing… this shadow. Even darkness must pass.”

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fealhach View Post
    Now this is I would love to see; well not a Sarlacc, but some great monstrosities that make what we've seen so far pale into insignificance. Whether what Bilbo said about the were-worms and the Last Desert to the east of east was about some real creature or imagined, it would be nice to have some nod to that.
    Only if it's kept low-key and they don't go nuts with it like in the third Hobbit movie, where we got something more reminiscent of Dune than anything else, something which took the general stupidity to a new and epic level. Something way the hell smaller that's just grown in the telling of travellers' tales would be just fine. The fact that it's alliterative, "wild were-worms", really makes it sound like something out of a story. The Last Desert itself could easily be a real place, like Middle-earth's equivalent of the Gobi Desert.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Only if it's kept low-key and they don't go nuts with it like in the third Hobbit movie, where we got something more reminiscent of Dune than anything else, something which took the general stupidity to a new and epic level. Something way the hell smaller that's just grown in the telling of travellers' tales would be just fine. The fact that it's alliterative, "wild were-worms", really makes it sound like something out of a story. The Last Desert itself could easily be a real place, like Middle-earth's equivalent of the Gobi Desert.
    Yup, that whole Dune worm thing for me just didn't work, Middle-earth would have ended up looking look a Swiss Cheese. And to think they wasted their effects budget on things like that when we could have had more of Beorn tearing up those Orcs...

    Cheers
    “It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end… because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing… this shadow. Even darkness must pass.”

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fealhach View Post
    Now this is I would love to see; well not a Sarlacc, but some great monstrosities that make what we've seen so far pale into insignificance. Whether what Bilbo said about the were-worms and the Last Desert to the east of east was about some real creature or imagined, it would be nice to have some nod to that. Whether they were just Dragons or Wyrms who knows? The Dwarves at the Unexpected Party didn't discount what he said, though it may have just been an expression.

    The great plains and deserts of the east and south would probably be quite vast in comparison to anything we have seen in our little corner of Middle-earth. And as we've seen with the Mûmakil from the south, it's possible creatures from these places could have been great in size compared to what we have encountered so far.

    Cheers

    This would be awesome.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fealhach View Post
    Now this is I would love to see; well not a Sarlacc, but some great monstrosities that make what we've seen so far pale into insignificance. Whether what Bilbo said about the were-worms and the Last Desert to the east of east was about some real creature or imagined, it would be nice to have some nod to that. Whether they were just Dragons or Wyrms who knows? The Dwarves at the Unexpected Party didn't discount what he said, though it may have just been an expression.

    The great plains and deserts of the east and south would probably be quite vast in comparison to anything we have seen in our little corner of Middle-earth. And as we've seen with the Mûmakil from the south, it's possible creatures from these places could have been great in size compared to what we have encountered so far.

    Cheers
    There were wyrms in one of the Battle for Middle-earth games that I loved the design of.



    They could have something similar for a boss (I've actually always wanted a serpentine boss), and similar things about man-size for landscape-level mobs. Being man-sized could be a nice hint at the "were" part of were-worms without it being direct.

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  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by dsltn07 View Post
    Dorothir I specifically asked people to stop posting saarlacs to spite my post. You’ve done this just to antagonize, as well over half your posts are made to antagonize and insult people.

    Stop.



    Edit: could a mod please remove these saarlac posts from my suggestion idea? Better, lock those who’ve done it from posting in this thread.
    Just PMSL - it was me who posted that picture.

    Get a grip. Don't open threads and invite discussion if you don't want an alternate or opposing viewpoint. Geez!

    Anyway, I never wanted this game to progress East but now there is talk of Saarlac type adversaries, I am intrigued and hope that is where we go after South Farthing and Scouring and Havens and a good revisit of Angmar*..... Only then

    *When Gundabad emerges then a good link to Angmar is needed in my opinion. This should also link Ettenmoor as a Pve area also for links and continuity.
    Last edited by TearMaker; Jan 28 2019 at 07:42 AM.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    There were wyrms in one of the Battle for Middle-earth games that I loved the design of.
    Let's get one thing straight, when Tolkien says 'worm' like that he invariably means either a dragon or a serpent (the sense in which it's used in old English stories), not some Dune-style thing that can burrow about underground. As in cold-worms, and how Smaug is referred to as a worm repeatedly in The Hobbit, and also in the case of Scatha the Worm (another dragon, slain in the Northlands long ago), and going further back there was Glaurung in the Silmarilion (variously referred to as the Great Worm, the Worm of Morgoth and suchlike).

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Let's get one thing straight, when Tolkien says 'worm' like that he invariably means either a dragon or a serpent (the sense in which it's used in old English stories), not some Dune-style thing that can burrow about underground. As in cold-worms, and how Smaug is referred to as a worm repeatedly in The Hobbit, and also in the case of Scatha the Worm (another dragon, slain in the Northlands long ago), and going further back there was Glaurung in the Silmarilion (variously referred to as the Great Worm, the Worm of Morgoth and suchlike).
    Agreed. Wyrms/Worms as monsters are either a synonym for Dragon or a lesser Dragon.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echoweaver View Post
    Agreed. Wyrms/Worms as monsters are either a synonym for Dragon or a lesser Dragon.
    They were fire-breathing burrowing serpents in Battle for Middle-earth, and I always quite liked that idea. Something wiggly and subterranean, like a degenerated dragon from an ancient time that hid underground. More often than not, a serpentine dragon/drake with limbs ends up looking like the eastern lung dragons, which would be a bit much considering the stories are set this side of the Gobi desert that Tolkien had very early on referred to with Bilbo's were-worms, so it was a nice concept.

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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    There were wyrms in one of the Battle for Middle-earth games that I loved the design of.



    They could have something similar for a boss (I've actually always wanted a serpentine boss), and similar things about man-size for landscape-level mobs. Being man-sized could be a nice hint at the "were" part of were-worms without it being direct.
    This not a good adaptation as they are not worms... and as said above by others they are dragons or lesser dragons.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pontin_Finnberry View Post
    This not a good adaptation as they are not worms... and as said above by others they are dragons or lesser dragons.
    Those aren't worms, either. They're wyrms and they breathe fire.
    Last edited by Dorothir; Jan 29 2019 at 11:03 AM.

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  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    Those aren't worms, either. They're wyrms and they breathe fire.
    I think the whole worm/wyrm thing is confusing for some. But the were- part is what really interests me, what ever these were-worms are or could be I don't think we would be looking at our traditional idea of what a worm, wyrm or a dragon might be. I'll be interested to see what the designers can come up with if we ever get that far.

    Hopefully as we travel further east we will get a few hints about what lies further afield.

    Cheers
    “It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end… because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing… this shadow. Even darkness must pass.”

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fealhach View Post
    I think the whole worm/wyrm thing is confusing for some. But the were- part is what really interests me, what ever these were-worms are or could be I don't think we would be looking at our traditional idea of what a worm, wyrm or a dragon might be. I'll be interested to see what the designers can come up with if we ever get that far.

    Hopefully as we travel further east we will get a few hints about what lies further afield.

    Cheers
    To me since Hobbits rarely traveled out of the shire, i always read Bilbo's Were-worms and Last desert as just hobbit folklore and legend, not real a place in Middle-earth with worms.
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  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Pontin_Finnberry View Post
    To me since Hobbits rarely traveled out of the shire, i always read Bilbo's Were-worms and Last desert as just hobbit folklore and legend, not real a place in Middle-earth with worms.
    Could have been legend and folklore, or, when you realise that Hobbits know of creatures like Dragons, Oliphaunt and Fastitocalon... There could be more to it...

    Cheers
    “It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end… because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing… this shadow. Even darkness must pass.”

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fealhach View Post
    I think the whole worm/wyrm thing is confusing for some.
    'Wyrm' is just an archaic spelling of 'worm', people tend to use it in fantasy because being archaic it has a more 'olde worlde' air to it. Same damn thing really, though (to be found in the original Anglo-Saxon text of Beowulf, for example).

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fealhach View Post
    I think the whole worm/wyrm thing is confusing for some. But the were- part is what really interests me, what ever these were-worms are or could be I don't think we would be looking at our traditional idea of what a worm, wyrm or a dragon might be. I'll be interested to see what the designers can come up with if we ever get that far.

    Hopefully as we travel further east we will get a few hints about what lies further afield.

    Cheers
    Agreed. That's the beauty of those "blank edges of the map", in that they were only hinted at by Tolkien. Not only does it leave a fair amount of room for creativity for the designers, it's also always been to me the most interesting stuff when a world-builder only tosses a line or two out to the reader regarding something. It stokes that curiousity and desire to know more. G.R.R. Martin does that quite a bit, mostly as off-hand "in-jokes" and references to other famous works (like Lovecraft, for example), but when Tolkien did it, it felt more like it was because he just hadn't gotten around to really fleshing it out. No doubt had he lived longer, he would've carried on tinkering on his "secondary world" as he always had done, but what he could've had in store for those eastern and southern regions we can only guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontin_Finnberry View Post
    To me since Hobbits rarely traveled out of the shire, i always read Bilbo's Were-worms and Last desert as just hobbit folklore and legend, not real a place in Middle-earth with worms.
    The last desert was likely real, since early versions of Bilbo's mention of it involved actually saying "Gobi desert", which makes sense since Tolkien considered Middle-earth a sort of mythical period of our own world. Were-worms could go either way, really. I lean to the idea that something does exist out there that the legends are based on, maybe some foul brood of serpents or wyrms that mimic human sounds to lure in prey. It always reminded me of the video game Fable, where there was mention of a legendary "sandgoose" that was just actually a fictional creature of that setting, too.

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  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    'Wyrm' is just an archaic spelling of 'worm', people tend to use it in fantasy because being archaic it has a more 'olde worlde' air to it. Same damn thing really, though (to be found in the original Anglo-Saxon text of Beowulf, for example).
    And then of course there are those that automatically go "Worm? What, a Wiggly Worm?" And automatically think of something like that Dune Worm you mentioned and not think Dragon at all. As Peter Jackson did.

    The use of were- however to me suggests that Tolkien was thinking of something not alike to the other worms, wyrms or dragons of his stories. Like with his reference to Nameless Things. I'm wondering what that monstrosity will be.

    Cheers
    “It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end… because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing… this shadow. Even darkness must pass.”

 

 
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