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Thread: Minstrel Tweaks

  1. #101
    Please quit asking to nerf Beorns based only on HPS. The only other thing a Beorn can do to help healing is debuff the damage of a single target. Plus we constantly have to worry about building wrath. Meanwhile, Minstrels have Inspire Fellows for a fellowship damage reduction of 4%, 9%, or 12% depending on armour set, fellowship damage reflect of 15% with Shielding Cry, Soliloquy for increased mitigations, and incoming healing buffs. Similarly, RK's have incoming healing buffs, damage reduction, etc. With the minstrel buffs, a 100k hit becomes 77k after damage reduction, reflect, SoS. With a Beorn, a 100k hit is a 100k hit. Due to the lack of damage reduction and incoming healing buffs, Beorns have to be able to output high HPS to compensate.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by dav3tv View Post
    Please quit asking to nerf Beorns based only on HPS. The only other thing a Beorn can do to help healing is debuff the damage of a single target. Plus we constantly have to worry about building wrath. Meanwhile, Minstrels have Inspire Fellows for a fellowship damage reduction of 4%, 9%, or 12% depending on armour set, fellowship damage reflect of 15% with Shielding Cry, Soliloquy for increased mitigations, and incoming healing buffs. Similarly, RK's have incoming healing buffs, damage reduction, etc. With the minstrel buffs, a 100k hit becomes 77k after damage reduction, reflect, SoS. With a Beorn, a 100k hit is a 100k hit. Due to the lack of damage reduction and incoming healing buffs, Beorns have to be able to output high HPS to compensate.
    People just tend to think of heal the same as dpsing in combat analysis numbers. It's not that important. I'd take a rk over beo always for tank healing even though beorn heals more HPS. HPS does not equal healing effectiveness, mini need some buff, but beo and rk are pretty balanced right now, just bring mini to their level of utility and it'll be fine.

  3. #103
    Beorn does need some work though and shouldn’t be considered complete or balanced. The HPS IS a little ridiculous, but as a healing class it should have more skills and utility. Descriptions and traits need to be cleaned up.

    Directly nerfing Beornings is the wrong answer though, move along Guidi.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    We're looking at a better fix for older set bonuses in general.

    Kind of the point of class set bonuses is to provide classes with unique and powerful bonuses that make for a flashy end-game experience. They are supposed to be kind of game changing, ideally.

    However because they are usually designed to be basically overpowered, they also need to age out gracefully - and LOTRO never got around to building in a proper mechanism to do that. It is something we're trying to get in now so that we can go back to introducing fun, OP set bonuses without them going on to break the game for the next 'x' years, or having to do stupid things like people's armor suddenly expiring when they level up, which is kinda terrible.

    -Vastin
    Yes, it is terrible to have my armor suddenly expiring and I hope you find a solution. My Lm is on her way to 75 and there isn't even a decent set at the skirm vendor for that level. I can't find out if the Erebor set at 85 is free now or still requires the max lvl instances since my 115 characters can't even try buying it. The cap also prevents me from buying these sets for cosmetic purposes unless I have a character of that class at that level range. IMO it is just a mess.

  5. #105
    After giving this some additional thought over the weekend, I just wanted to add a few more suggestions.

    1. It would be nice if The Melody of Battle had a chance to provide an additional % based heal to its recipient on any heal from the minstrel. This would allow minstrels to heal in situations where currently they have to rely on the Big Battle jewelry set. My preference would be something like, Melody of Battle provides a 10% chance to restore 5% of the recipients maximum morale. EDIT: The parry buff from The Melody of Battle should also be normalized to provide the equivalent of 2.5 essences of parry rating.

    2. As opposed to greatly increasing the strength of Minstrel AoE heals, I would rather see something like: If the recipient's health is below 50%, Soliloquy of Spirit has a chance of proc all 3 SoS HoTs / tiers of the mitigation buff at once. This could be combined with: Raise the Spirit has a chance to greatly increase the HoTs provided by Soliloquy of Spirit for a short time (10s). My reasoning here is that I would rather continue to see Minstrels as strong single target healers (and no longer dependent on Bolster Spamming for AoE heals), and I feel that a reduced CD on other direct AoE heals, such as Inspire Fellows, might result in a similar boring rotation.
    Last edited by keztryl; Jan 22 2019 at 09:47 AM.

  6. #106
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    I hate chiming in on these threads, because it always seems like other minstrels are so much more powerful than my minstrel is, but I feel like I have to speak up.

    The statement that Bolster Courage is somehow sufficient (or even, as one person suggested, OP and should be nerfed) seems insane to me. My normal BC with blue line and in resonance is 6,068-8,669. Add all 3 ballads (18%) and the anthem (10%) and you're somewhere around 9,500. Tanks have around 150-175,000 morale. I throw a Bolster Courage on a tank and can't even tell I healed unless I am lucky enough to crit, and even then, it's nothing compared to the health on the tank. I can't *just* spam BC because I have to stop every minute or so and recast the ballads and anthem to retain the boosts. I also can't start the boosts until we are in battle, so there is an effective delay in the healing while the four skills are cast.

    Now, maybe some type of end game geared minstrel is healing for massively more than I am, and if that's the case, then the problem is that landscape geared minstrels fall short of even the most basic T1 instances. Fellowships and raids in some areas are actively looking for RK or Beorning healers over minstrels, which isn't the end of the world except that's confirmation of my opinion that we aren't good healers.
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  7. #107
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    I would be surprised to here people in T1s asking for RK's or beornings over any other healer as currently for most t1s in the game you dont even need a dedicated healer. Also I think most people agree that whilst those two classes are better healers currently we would prefer not to see a return to bolster spamming by making 1 skill broken again. My bolsters currently do around 10-40k heals, depending on crits, which is sufficient for most content as bolster shouldnt been your emergency skill but rather just keeping people topped off so whilst most people on here are asking for buffs. (Also never use ballads whilst healing just use cry of the chorus, anthem - both of which can be done just before the fight starts to then begin heals as soon as it starts) Landscape gear with lvl'd li's should be able to get you through any t1 content in my personal experience.

    Where I agree with you is I think that the difference between crits and non-crits currently is too high meaning you only start to get consistency when you have 25% or more crit chance so I would like to see a buff to the non-crit half of bolster if possible and then again reiterating 90% of people here from what I can tell want a buff to minstrel healing but it has to come through various other skills mentioned throughout this thread like melody of battle, inspire fellows, fellowships heart, TS, SoS, etc but buffing one of minstrels few skills that is in the right place currently would likely result in another round of eternal bolster spam.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Milarien View Post
    I hate chiming in on these threads, because it always seems like other minstrels are so much more powerful than my minstrel is, but I feel like I have to speak up.

    The statement that Bolster Courage is somehow sufficient (or even, as one person suggested, OP and should be nerfed) seems insane to me. My normal BC with blue line and in resonance is 6,068-8,669. Add all 3 ballads (18%) and the anthem (10%) and you're somewhere around 9,500. Tanks have around 150-175,000 morale. I throw a Bolster Courage on a tank and can't even tell I healed unless I am lucky enough to crit, and even then, it's nothing compared to the health on the tank. I can't *just* spam BC because I have to stop every minute or so and recast the ballads and anthem to retain the boosts. I also can't start the boosts until we are in battle, so there is an effective delay in the healing while the four skills are cast.

    Now, maybe some type of end game geared minstrel is healing for massively more than I am, and if that's the case, then the problem is that landscape geared minstrels fall short of even the most basic T1 instances. Fellowships and raids in some areas are actively looking for RK or Beorning healers over minstrels, which isn't the end of the world except that's confirmation of my opinion that we aren't good healers.
    If you weren’t aware, tanks should be able to easily keep themselves alive through almost all T1 content except some 6 man boss fights and anvil. Even T2 glimmer can be done without heals fairly easily. There is also a massive difference between a well geared, skilled minstrel, and a landscape minstrel who doesn’t quite understand the class. We are talking a magnitude of 5-10 times stronger. I’ve seen minstrels (plural, as in multiple different players) struggling to put out 2k HPS (from a tank main point of view). I suspect this comes from a lack of class knowledge.

    Edit; as an excerpt: Just last evening I did a T1 quays run with a minstrel and hunter. For trash pulls I went dps, the minstrel was in healing line and could not even keep the hunter alive when the hunter pulled a single mob, the hunter was also severely undergeared and I suspect had less than 10k dps, but this is just an example of the variety of players. Not everyone has raid gear or dedication sadly. I wound up having to use my dps gear in tank line to be sure they never got agro, but also to progress the run along with at least SOME dps. If my dps was equal to or less than their combined dps, the quays run would have likely taken well over 1.5-2 hours.
    Last edited by dsltn07; Jan 22 2019 at 11:34 AM.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    ...Bolster Courage spam pretty much making up the 'rotation' such as it is, so I'll mostly be looking to...probably introduce some cooldowns to encourage more interesting rotations

    -Vastin



    Your idea to fix the minstrel is to make our one heal even more useless ????????

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanovaria View Post
    Your idea to fix the minstrel is to make our one heal even more useless ????????
    If you would continue reading, he follows with “and buff the rest of the heals”. That’s called balancing. Something overperforming is reduced, under performers are increased.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsltn07 View Post
    If you would continue reading, he follows with “and buff the rest of the heals”. That’s called balancing. Something overperforming is reduced, under performers are increased.
    they have every right to be concerned. the history of balancing in this game has been a chain of fiasco's for a decade
    dont worry the dev's are working on a fix that fixes the fix that fixed the fix that was fixing the fix....

  12. #112
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    Post

    Ok, getting close to complete with a first pass. Several of the heals that had fallen well out of date are seeing considerable buffs, no real (intentional) magintude nerfs at this point, but some cooldowns have been added or extended to encourage adding the newly improved heals back into some form of rotation - my goal is not to really substantially change the sustained single target throughput of minstrels but I do want to improve their group heal ability somewhat and I think they'll end up with more meaningful buttons to reach for when things are looking dire.

    That being said, I don't main a lot of healers, and so my judgement regarding their overall throughput is iffy - I just have to spreadsheet the numbers and hope they work out as expected. In particular there may be some trait combos or armor set bonuses that I have overlooked that might make some things go awry. I'll definitely be looking for feedback on all of that.

    Sorry, this really is just a numbers & balance update. No major bugfixes, trait change ups, or any of that.

    I'll be posting a preview change list, hopefully later today.

    -Vastin

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Ok, getting close to complete with a first pass. Several of the heals that had fallen well out of date are seeing considerable buffs, no real (intentional) magintude nerfs at this point, but some cooldowns have been added or extended to encourage adding the newly improved heals back into some form of rotation - my goal is not to really substantially change the sustained single target throughput of minstrels but I do want to improve their group heal ability somewhat and I think they'll end up with more meaningful buttons to reach for when things are looking dire.

    That being said, I don't main a lot of healers, and so my judgement regarding their overall throughput is iffy - I just have to spreadsheet the numbers and hope they work out as expected. In particular there may be some trait combos or armor set bonuses that I have overlooked that might make some things go awry. I'll definitely be looking for feedback on all of that.

    Sorry, this really is just a numbers & balance update. No major bugfixes, trait change ups, or any of that.

    I'll be posting a preview change list, hopefully later today.

    -Vastin
    Please do not touch the cooldowns on any skills as that will make the rotation less complex, Read the suggestions that Karnage_Arkenstone or myself has posted

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    but some cooldowns have been added or extended to encourage adding the newly improved heals back into some form of rotation -
    Well I'm not very sure how that will works. Minstrel CDs were an issues since the last changes. If you put them to high on healing skills, you kick out the minstrel as a healing class. Somehow i have the feeling, that the changes will not change much on the overall on HPS or on slowness of the class.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod View Post
    Well I'm not very sure how that will works. Minstrel CDs were an issues since the last changes. If you put them to high on healing skills, you kick out the minstrel as a healing class. Somehow i have the feeling, that the changes will not change much on the overall on HPS or on slowness of the class.
    Based solely on what Vastin has actually said, I’d guess bolster is getting a few seconds added to its CD, WHILE the rest of the mini heals are being scaled upwards substantially. That’s just how it reads to me though.

  16. #116
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    Post First Pass Change Notes

    Ok, this is my first stab at the minstrel balance pass. As noted before, this is really just pure number changes - the only design tweak in the whole package is the change to Legend of the Hammerhand's expiry heal.

    Overview:
    - Not looking to make major changes to the minstrel single target HPS output - though I may have done that unintentionally in any case, will certainly be looking for feedback there either way.
    - I *am* looking for some significant group heal improvements, and hopefully more rotation options to achieve good throughput.
    - Otherwise I'm just trying to get the class fully normalized (they should feel a lot more reasonable at low levels now, I think), and make it feel like there's a better balance between the various minstrel skills overall. There seemed to be several obvious losers in the lineup previously. Hopefully with this pass a lot more of the Minstrel's bar should look potentially useful in terms of raw DPS/HPS output. (I didn't really mess with the buffs either way)

    Minstrel Change Log

    Note: Most values below were calibrated on a pure blue spec 120 minstrel with mid-endgame gearing. YMMV.

    - Many Minstrel skills/effects that had not been normalized previously have been updated.
    - Healers strike group heal increased by ~540%
    - Major Ballad group heal increased by ~480%
    - Heroes strike self heal increased similarly.
    - Improved Chord of Salvation group heal component increased by ~300%, cooldown increased (10->15s)
    - Raise the Spirit heal increased by ~180%
    - Coda of Resonance Heal increased by ~150%, cooldown increased (1->10s)
    - Coda of Melody's heal increased by ~130%.
    - Inspire Fellows heal increased by ~90%, cooldown increased (5->10s)
    - Perfect Ending heal increased by ~40%
    - Bolster Courage heal increased by ~15%, cooldown increased to 3s.
    - Triumphant Spirit heal increased by ~10%
    - Legend of Hammerhand's expiry heal is now 2% of each fellowship member's max morale (per bubble that expires)
    - Soliloquy of Spirit is no longer Immediate and will not interrupt other skill animations.
    - Spirit of Freedom is now Immediate and features a faster animation.
    - Story of Courage no longer has an induction - it is now a Fast skill.
    - Song of Hammerhand bubble magnitude increased (10%->30% Max Vital)
    - Gift/Legend of Hammerhand bubble magnitudes increased (10%->20% Max Vital)
    - Healers/Heroes/Dissonant strike damage increased by ~800%, now draws their base dmg from tactical implement.
    - Dissonant strike now does Light damage like the other two strikes.
    - All Ballad damage increased by ~40%.

    -Vastin

    PS: As a result of normalization, Low level minstrels will find that their DPS has dropped substantially, but that their healing has improved. Seemed quite playable at 50, but I haven't had a chance to go test in multiple ranges yet.

    PPS: Not quite sure when this will start showing up on Palantir or Bullroarer, but I figured I'd give you a heads up beforehand in any case.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post

    - Bolster Courage heal increased by ~15%, cooldown increased to 3s.
    - Soliloquy of Spirit is no longer Immediate and will not interrupt other skill animations.
    These 2 changes right here completely ruin the class. SoS is now useless and BC is now also going to probably be useless, it is probably now replaced with RTS.
    But the SoS change is huge and should not happen, simple as that.
    Last edited by sahanto; Jan 23 2019 at 08:12 PM.

  18. #118
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    Low level minstrels will find that their DPS has dropped substantially, but that their healing has improved. <

    Many of us play mostly solo - this is a game for a lot of people that enjoy wandering around and exploring middle earth and seeing the lore.

    I hate to say this but I would be a lot happier if you leave minstrels with ###### healing if the only way to give them good healing is what you yourself describe as a *substantial* nerf to their damage output. It is *so* hard to heal a mob to death!


    Ignore this comment if the major reduction in damage doesn't apply to dissonance stance - anyone that solos in any other stance pretty well deserves having lower damage output.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post



    - Improved Chord of Salvation group heal component increased by ~300%, cooldown increased (10->15s)
    - Bolster Courage heal increased by ~15%, cooldown increased to 3s.
    - Soliloquy of Spirit is no longer Immediate and will not interrupt other skill animations.


    .
    Please revert these 3 changes. Other than that everything else looks good
    You will get rid of all rotation complexity if you change the CD on bolster
    Soliliquy is meant to be immediate or else it's a completely useless heal and mini will be a bolster spam again
    And chord is already strong enough, cooldown is fine at 10s
    No one asked for any of these changes.. please read the feedback from Karnage_Arkenstone or myself and then do those changes.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post

    - Many Minstrel skills/effects that had not been normalized previously have been updated.

    - Bolster Courage heal increased by ~15%, cooldown increased to 3s.
    - Soliloquy of Spirit is no longer Immediate and will not interrupt other skill animations.
    Does the normalisation mean our dps at 120 may have changed as well?

    I'm worried about the Bolster Courage heal change, would have to play with it a bit to be sure. It seems that a 15% buff doesn't equate to a new 3 second cooldown, and as that is currently one of our main healing skills... I think it's an understandable worry.

    I don't understand why the change to Soliloquy of Spirit was made. The immediate nature of that skill is what made it useful, and that is a change no one has ever requested as far as I can see.


    The rest of the changes I'm happy to see, and excited to try it out! Bit sad there was no buffs to yellow line though ):
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    - Healers strike group heal increased by ~540%
    - Major Ballad group heal increased by ~480%
    - Heroes strike self heal increased similarly.
    - Improved Chord of Salvation group heal component increased by ~300%, cooldown increased (10->15s)
    - Raise the Spirit heal increased by ~180%
    - Coda of Resonance Heal increased by ~150%, cooldown increased (1->10s)
    - Coda of Melody's heal increased by ~130%.
    - Inspire Fellows heal increased by ~90%, cooldown increased (5->10s)
    - Perfect Ending heal increased by ~40%
    - Bolster Courage heal increased by ~15%, cooldown increased to 3s.
    - Triumphant Spirit heal increased by ~10%
    - Legend of Hammerhand's expiry heal is now 2% of each fellowship member's max morale (per bubble that expires)
    - Soliloquy of Spirit is no longer Immediate and will not interrupt other skill animations.
    - Spirit of Freedom is now Immediate and features a faster animation.
    - Story of Courage no longer has an induction - it is now a Fast skill.
    - Song of Hammerhand bubble magnitude increased (10%->30% Max Vital)
    - Gift/Legend of Hammerhand bubble magnitudes increased (10%->20% Max Vital)
    - Healers/Heroes/Dissonant strike damage increased by ~800%, now draws their base dmg from tactical implement.
    - Dissonant strike now does Light damage like the other two strikes.
    - All Ballad damage increased by ~40%.
    I honestly like all these changes. I'll want to see how the SoS change works out in practice before I comment on it "ruining the class". Thanks a ton for the Spirit of Freedom and Story of Courage changes! I also like RtS replacing Bolster as spammable ability due to Bolster getting a cooldown and RtS getting a significant buff. I'm mainly missing:

    • Any mention of bug fix for Raise the Spirit HoT? It never worked, was broken on release and Friendlyhat either never bothered to fix it or was never aware it was bugged? It simply does not do what the trait says it should be doing. (This is a Yellow line trait, but would be very relevant for healing if it actually worked).
    • Any mention of Fellowship's Heart? This is the single biggest healing cooldown skill in the entire game and is still woefully outdated in terms of magnitude.
    • Melody of Battle? Was this fixed by the normalization pass or is it still giving stats appropriate to a level 50 character?
    • You might want to take a stab at base healing vs crit healing on Minstrel. The critical healing multipliers are huge, which leads to healing either feeling unreliable or overpowered. If you buff base healing values to be balanced for taken damage and health pool values, that means lucky crits will be wildly overpowered, but if you balance for crit heals to be balanced then non-crit heals will be inadequate leading to unreliable healing. We were close to the second situation for a while, but have also seen the first in the past years. I realise this might be too big of an issue to tackle in a quick numbers pass, but I think it would be a good thing for Minstrel healing balance if you nerfed its crit multipliers significantly, and directly balanced base healing values to a good spot. Future stretch goal?


    Please keep up the good work!

    PS - Who do I need to send a box of donuts so they give you some time to have a look at Yellow Minstrel too?
    Last edited by B749; Jan 23 2019 at 08:36 PM.
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Ok, this is my first stab at the minstrel balance pass. As noted before, this is really just pure number changes - the only design tweak in the whole package is the change to Legend of the Hammerhand's expiry heal.

    - Healers strike group heal increased by ~540%
    - Heroes strike self heal increased similarly.
    - Healers/Heroes/Dissonant strike damage increased by ~800%, now draws their base dmg from tactical implement.
    - Dissonant strike now does Light damage like the other two strikes.
    Really looking forward to seeing how strikes feel after the change.

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Ok, this is my first stab at the minstrel balance pass. As noted before, this is really just pure number changes - the only design tweak in the whole package is the change to Legend of the Hammerhand's expiry heal.

    Overview:
    - Not looking to make major changes to the minstrel single target HPS output - though I may have done that unintentionally in any case, will certainly be looking for feedback there either way.
    - I *am* looking for some significant group heal improvements, and hopefully more rotation options to achieve good throughput.
    - Otherwise I'm just trying to get the class fully normalized (they should feel a lot more reasonable at low levels now, I think), and make it feel like there's a better balance between the various minstrel skills overall. There seemed to be several obvious losers in the lineup previously. Hopefully with this pass a lot more of the Minstrel's bar should look potentially useful in terms of raw DPS/HPS output. (I didn't really mess with the buffs either way)

    Minstrel Change Log

    Note: Most values below were calibrated on a pure blue spec 120 minstrel with mid-endgame gearing. YMMV.

    - Many Minstrel skills/effects that had not been normalized previously have been updated.
    - Healers strike group heal increased by ~540%
    - Major Ballad group heal increased by ~480%
    - Heroes strike self heal increased similarly.
    - Improved Chord of Salvation group heal component increased by ~300%, cooldown increased (10->15s)
    - Raise the Spirit heal increased by ~180%
    - Coda of Resonance Heal increased by ~150%, cooldown increased (1->10s)
    - Coda of Melody's heal increased by ~130%.
    - Inspire Fellows heal increased by ~90%, cooldown increased (5->10s)
    - Perfect Ending heal increased by ~40%
    - Bolster Courage heal increased by ~15%, cooldown increased to 3s.
    - Triumphant Spirit heal increased by ~10%
    - Legend of Hammerhand's expiry heal is now 2% of each fellowship member's max morale (per bubble that expires)
    - Soliloquy of Spirit is no longer Immediate and will not interrupt other skill animations.
    - Spirit of Freedom is now Immediate and features a faster animation.
    - Story of Courage no longer has an induction - it is now a Fast skill.
    - Song of Hammerhand bubble magnitude increased (10%->30% Max Vital)
    - Gift/Legend of Hammerhand bubble magnitudes increased (10%->20% Max Vital)
    - Healers/Heroes/Dissonant strike damage increased by ~800%, now draws their base dmg from tactical implement.
    - Dissonant strike now does Light damage like the other two strikes.
    - All Ballad damage increased by ~40%.

    -Vastin

    PS: As a result of normalization, Low level minstrels will find that their DPS has dropped substantially, but that their healing has improved. Seemed quite playable at 50, but I haven't had a chance to go test in multiple ranges yet.

    PPS: Not quite sure when this will start showing up on Palantir or Bullroarer, but I figured I'd give you a heads up beforehand in any case.
    do you know how long is the animation of most of the minis skills ? Chord of salvation, perfect ending, triumphant spirit,inspire fellows, all these skills have long animation, some of them are way too long even. that you would need to interrupt them with SoS. please revert back the change of SoS. maybe increase the cd to 3s but make it immediate skill, or at least fix all the animation/skill delays. (especially for chord of salvation,perfect ending, and triumphant spirit).

    beside that all other changes seems good.
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Ok, this is my first stab at the minstrel balance pass. As noted before, this is really just pure number changes - the only design tweak in the whole package is the change to Legend of the Hammerhand's expiry heal.

    Overview:
    - Not looking to make major changes to the minstrel single target HPS output - though I may have done that unintentionally in any case, will certainly be looking for feedback there either way.
    - I *am* looking for some significant group heal improvements, and hopefully more rotation options to achieve good throughput.
    - Otherwise I'm just trying to get the class fully normalized (they should feel a lot more reasonable at low levels now, I think), and make it feel like there's a better balance between the various minstrel skills overall. There seemed to be several obvious losers in the lineup previously. Hopefully with this pass a lot more of the Minstrel's bar should look potentially useful in terms of raw DPS/HPS output. (I didn't really mess with the buffs either way)

    Minstrel Change Log

    Note: Most values below were calibrated on a pure blue spec 120 minstrel with mid-endgame gearing. YMMV.

    - Many Minstrel skills/effects that had not been normalized previously have been updated.
    - Healers strike group heal increased by ~540%
    - Major Ballad group heal increased by ~480%
    - Heroes strike self heal increased similarly.
    - Improved Chord of Salvation group heal component increased by ~300%, cooldown increased (10->15s)
    - Raise the Spirit heal increased by ~180%
    - Coda of Resonance Heal increased by ~150%, cooldown increased (1->10s)
    - Coda of Melody's heal increased by ~130%.
    - Inspire Fellows heal increased by ~90%, cooldown increased (5->10s)
    - Perfect Ending heal increased by ~40%
    - Bolster Courage heal increased by ~15%, cooldown increased to 3s.
    - Triumphant Spirit heal increased by ~10%
    - Legend of Hammerhand's expiry heal is now 2% of each fellowship member's max morale (per bubble that expires)
    - Soliloquy of Spirit is no longer Immediate and will not interrupt other skill animations.
    - Spirit of Freedom is now Immediate and features a faster animation.
    - Story of Courage no longer has an induction - it is now a Fast skill.
    - Song of Hammerhand bubble magnitude increased (10%->30% Max Vital)
    - Gift/Legend of Hammerhand bubble magnitudes increased (10%->20% Max Vital)
    - Healers/Heroes/Dissonant strike damage increased by ~800%, now draws their base dmg from tactical implement.
    - Dissonant strike now does Light damage like the other two strikes.
    - All Ballad damage increased by ~40%.

    -Vastin

    PS: As a result of normalization, Low level minstrels will find that their DPS has dropped substantially, but that their healing has improved. Seemed quite playable at 50, but I haven't had a chance to go test in multiple ranges yet.

    PPS: Not quite sure when this will start showing up on Palantir or Bullroarer, but I figured I'd give you a heads up beforehand in any case.
    I don't understand the point of a feedback thread on a class that you have so little knowledge about where you even said that yourself that you come up with some of these things.
    Not one person has mentioned anything about adding a cooldown timer to Bolster Courage, removing Soliloquy of Spirit as an immediate skill where it will not interrupt other skill animations, Chord of Salvation cooldown timer has been increased from 10->15s and Inspire Fellows cooldown being increased from 5->10s.

    This is by far the most unprofessional work I have seen when it has come to "fixing" a class. This is just unacceptable. People have seen you (Vastin) as their savoir when it comes to reworking any class and now we get this.

    Would it of hurt to ask the community on these changes first before making them? What is the use of us spending time coming on here and replying to you or discussing changes with other players when we are not heard or even looked at for starters.

    This is honestly sad and I can already see myself quitting the Minstrel class let alone this game because I am sick of tired of these unwanted changes.
    I pin pointed out on what needs fixing, buffing or nerfing and so have many others but no, the community has no say in anything.

    I am only going to say this once,

    Please look into what I have had to say along with hanxcve.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Karnage_Arkenstone; Jan 23 2019 at 09:04 PM.
    Creeps: Turkos, Turkopp, Turkz, Turkov & Justheretocc - Leader of Karnage / YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/c/RiizaLotro
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  25. #125
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    - Healers/Heroes/Dissonant strike damage increased by ~800%, now draws their base dmg from tactical implement.
    If similar a change could be done to Loremaster's staff strike and staff-sweep, it would likely make them useful skills again.

 

 
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