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Thread: Raid Closure

  1. #1
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    Raid Closure

    The new Raid Anvil of Wintersmith has been closed to fix/address a bug.

    Let the annual debate begin!
    Is it an exploit if it was reported as a bug in beta?

    I will remind everyone there is a Sticky specifically on this: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...and-exploiting

    LOTRO has bugs in it. In some rare cases these bugs can allow you to derive an in-game advantage. If you find one of these bugs, report it, and don't use it for gain. If you do exploit a bug, you run a very high risk of being banned and losing whatever you got. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether something is a bug or not - in those cases we tend to err on the side of not banning etc, but the more obvious it is that the behavior is not intended the higher the risk of banning / bad consequences. In short, if in doubt don’t do it. If you do choose to exploit you are the one responsible for your actions.

    MAWorking had the highest post count on the pre-beta LOTRO forums. He was truly an icon and clearly, hasn't changed a bit. -Meghan/aka Patience

  2. #2
    In my opinion, this is just ridiculous. Why release a raid for only a day, then take it down indefinitely due to issues that were actually reported in beta but weren't addressed? What is there to gain by doing this other than ridicule, compared to just keeping the raid in beta for another week or two to address these issues to begin with?

    And regarding people actually using exploits to complete the raid, if you ask me it deserves a permaban on the account. If someone is raiding, especially at tier 2 (and now tier 3), they will 100% understand the game well enough to know if something is an exploit or not. And here I mean exploiting raid mechanics. Sometimes there's bugs that happen on their own, and those are simply unavoidable at times, but if a player/group is purposefully cheesing an instance/raid, then it deserves a permaban.

    Maybe if they actually monitored raids and inforced their rules, the community wouldn't be quite so toxic, no?

  3. #3
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    They should do it other, if you can exploit something and you realise it, report it. Do it a second time bann.
    In this scenarios the devs habe to react faster and answer if this is wanted or an exploit which they have to fix.
    As the kitting in glimmerdeep for avoiding dmg or standing in range of 30m + in thrumfall to avoid the area dmg etc.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    In my opinion, this is just ridiculous. Why release a raid for only a day, then take it down indefinitely due to issues that were actually reported in beta but weren't addressed?
    I dont think this bug was actually reported on beta,
    they closed the raid because you are able to get loot, while having id on the boss, so you could loot id1 x times with the same char over and over again.
    Gertes

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAWorking View Post
    The new Raid Anvil of Wintersmith has been closed to fix/address a bug.

    Let the annual debate begin!
    Is it an exploit if it was reported as a bug in beta?

    I will remind everyone there is a Sticky specifically on this: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...and-exploiting

    LOTRO has bugs in it. In some rare cases these bugs can allow you to derive an in-game advantage. If you find one of these bugs, report it, and don't use it for gain. If you do exploit a bug, you run a very high risk of being banned and losing whatever you got. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether something is a bug or not - in those cases we tend to err on the side of not banning etc, but the more obvious it is that the behavior is not intended the higher the risk of banning / bad consequences. In short, if in doubt don’t do it. If you do choose to exploit you are the one responsible for your actions.
    Exploits are illusions. The entire game is a creation of SSG...not some God ordained creation. If SSG releases broken content it should be exploited and SSG should face the consequences, which is an unbalanced system that they need to rebalance through hard work and creativity.

    1. Raiders pay real money.
    2. They pay for a raid.
    3. SSG releases raid, which they created, with created bugs.
    4. Raiders play the raid and figure out the bugs to beat the raid
    5. SSG bans paid players for beating a raid that SSG broke and released
    6. SSG faces no responsibility for taking money from players and then banning them when they break their own game.
    7. I'm sick.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by wallymason View Post
    Exploits are illusions. The entire game is a creation of SSG...not some God ordained creation. If SSG releases broken content it should be exploited and SSG should face the consequences, which is an unbalanced system that they need to rebalance through hard work and creativity.

    1. Raiders pay real money.
    2. They pay for a raid.
    3. SSG releases raid, which they created, with created bugs.
    4. Raiders play the raid and figure out the bugs to beat the raid
    5. SSG bans paid players for beating a raid that SSG broke and released
    6. SSG faces no responsibility for taking money from players and then banning them when they break their own game.
    7. I'm sick.
    I'm sorry you're salty you're about to get banned for doing an endless loot exploit.

    There's a pretty big difference to figuring out how to down a boss efficiently and using exploits to reward the game for doing multiple kills of the boss when you really got one. Which is what this exploit did, as far as I understand.
    The road goes ever on.

  7. #7
    Just as certain players who will not be named took long (or permanent) vacations days after U23 was released and we saw the instances closed for a couple days, I expect there will be more vacations coming.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    They should do it other, if you can exploit something and you realise it, report it. Do it a second time bann.
    In this scenarios the devs habe to react faster and answer if this is wanted or an exploit which they have to fix.
    As the kitting in glimmerdeep for avoiding dmg or standing in range of 30m + in thrumfall to avoid the area dmg etc.
    I hope those are not considered exploits- those are obvious tactics any group would try on a new boss. To consider those exploits would be insane, glad I'm done serious raiding.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    In my opinion, this is just ridiculous. Why release a raid for only a day, then take it down indefinitely due to issues that were actually reported in beta but weren't addressed? What is there to gain by doing this other than ridicule, compared to just keeping the raid in beta for another week or two to address these issues to begin with?

    And regarding people actually using exploits to complete the raid, if you ask me it deserves a permaban on the account. If someone is raiding, especially at tier 2 (and now tier 3), they will 100% understand the game well enough to know if something is an exploit or not. And here I mean exploiting raid mechanics. Sometimes there's bugs that happen on their own, and those are simply unavoidable at times, but if a player/group is purposefully cheesing an instance/raid, then it deserves a permaban.

    Maybe if they actually monitored raids and inforced their rules, the community wouldn't be quite so toxic, no?
    Why release for only a day? Well, this is a limited time offer.

    In the future all raids will release this way and the next day players will have to buy it at the LotRO store. No matter of player status VIP, Premium, Free to Play everyone will have to pay for it several times.


    On a serious note, This is funny. I mean hilariously, embarrassing funny. Don't mistake the humor, I find in this. Funny how sad it is the developers and the player testers constantly miss the mark in every regard. Some aspects are intentional and others are just the worst oversights imaginable. From Naerband to this day every, instance is broken or exploitable. It would be a cringe worthy thought to believe the new scheme is to present broken instances to forestall player progress because development is at a near turtle pace. Even more so, to allow players to beta test new raid content who have nefarious intent from the onset.


    Oh wait!!! Hold the phone! I forgot. The whole game is being thrown under the bus because Legendary Servers are the essential importance.
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  10. #10
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    Only thing that keeps me playing is the constant stream of opportunities to mock SSG. I liken it to stand-up comedian's across the world rubbing their hands in glee after an election in 2017, endless material. Until the world dies...


    Mac

  11. #11
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    Its all yours to make, everything you do is all up to you, players decide to use bugs to win instead of not, you don't use bugs to win, if you see it report it and don't use it. simple as that.
    Pontin Level 120 Hobbit Burglar Leader of Second Breakfast Crickhollow Server.
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    Here's a guide to making ABC files and my Screenshots of Middle-Earth. Also can follow me on Twitter for Adventures in Middle Earth and more!

  12. #12
    Not the players fault. SSG screwed up, same loot exploit from TG was in the raid...
    I myself am pretty mad since I was planning on running the raid today...
    44 Bulldog

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smapper View Post
    Not the players fault. SSG screwed up, same loot exploit from TG was in the raid...
    I myself am pretty mad since I was planning on running the raid today...
    Just to be clear, you will be banned if you exploit.

    Ya can blame whoever you like, but that sticky has been there quite a while and this conversation has occurred a number of times.

    MAWorking had the highest post count on the pre-beta LOTRO forums. He was truly an icon and clearly, hasn't changed a bit. -Meghan/aka Patience

  14. #14
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    As ever, there is a fine line between rnning an exploit and out thinking a developer.
    Mithithil Ithryndi

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mithithil View Post
    As ever, there is a fine line between rnning an exploit and out thinking a developer.
    see sig below....
    dont worry the dev's are working on a fix that fixes the fix that fixed the fix that was fixing the fix....

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    I dont think this bug was actually reported on beta,
    they closed the raid because you are able to get loot, while having id on the boss, so you could loot id1 x times with the same char over and over again.
    This was 100% reported on beta, as well as this is the same issue with TG, so do I feel bad for them? No... Do I think people deserve to get banned? Ehhhh maybe....

    I think if the devs willingly put it something so broken to live, they deserved to have people utilize it.
    Death's Bane : Arkenstone : Endgame
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Macdui View Post
    I liken it to stand-up comedian's across the world rubbing their hands in glee after an election in 2017, endless material. Until the world dies...
    There are so many variations of Orange-Man-Bad material that one can do, but certain people never lose their taste for it, nor the fear mongering "until the world dies," even as the bad man has improved relations with North Korea and is pulling troops from Syria and other war zones and conflicts of the Nobel Peace Prize winner.
    Arkenstone (formerly Landroval):
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    Eviliz Unseen, r11 Warg. Lizifer, r11 Defiler.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Maybe if they actually monitored raids and inforced their rules, the community wouldn't be quite so toxic, no?
    They did monitor the raid (On Arkenstone), but only the kinship who got world first completion, just because people were pointing fingers at them long before the raid even released

    All meanwhile 2 other kins were using hard exploits during progression which flew under the radar.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf2x View Post
    They did monitor the raid (On Arkenstone), but only the kinship who got world first completion, just because people were pointing fingers at them long before the raid even released

    All meanwhile 2 other kins were using hard exploits during progression which flew under the radar.
    What I find hilarious is that even though a GM was monitoring your kin, on ark people are still accusing your kin of exploiting and not even mentioning the other kins xD
    44 Bulldog

  20. #20
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    > SSG releases the raid on BR for people to test it
    > people test the raid and figure a lot of bugs/exploits
    > people report the exploits and bugs
    > Devs don't care and release the raid without 1 single fix for the exploits
    > people use the exploits
    > devs close the raid and ban the people who used

    #logic

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAWorking View Post
    Is it an exploit if it was reported as a bug in beta?

    [/b][/i]
    in my opinion: a clear yes. If you already know that it is a bug and still uses it then you deserve a ban

    I even say for myself: a weekly list should be published with the players who have been banned with the reason to give other players the opportunity to say yes I play with him or her or say no with such players I do not want to have anything to do



    but in the end it does not really matter if ssg continues to deal with their players. many of the players have the feeling that all reported bugs are simply ignored by the bullroarer and wonder what these test phases are for when there is no change.

    You can see where the priorities are if you see the shop is repaired after 2 hours but the raid is likely to take a lot of days just like the quest Bundle for Woodhall. I used to shake my head over something like that, but in my opinion it's not worth it anymore because you have the feeling that the players are not being taken seriously by the developers



    I'm German so sorry for my partial bad english

  22. #22
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    Angry

    @Cordovan Hotfix ETA???

    36h+ no communication, congrats.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat211 View Post
    I hope those are not considered exploits- those are obvious tactics any group would try on a new boss. To consider those exploits would be insane, glad I'm done serious raiding.
    Exploiting per definition: "to use someone or something unfairly for your own advantage"

    In this cases you use the room or your range to avoid the incoming dmg for your advantage which take some classes out of the content. But in any case you go an easier way to get the loot with which you take advantage over ssg cause you exploit mechanics they programm in the instance to make it more difficult.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakistos View Post
    in my opinion: a clear yes. If you already know that it is a bug and still uses it then you deserve a ban
    The Beo set being OP is/was also a bug though. :P Just sayin.


    Sooo are there any news on the raid? At least sth like: "NOT TODAY" ?

  25. #25
    I think we're discussing 4 kind of exploit posibilities here:

    Scenario 1: You know well a mechanic and figure out a way around it so you can technically ignore it without really making enemies or skills work on an unapropriate way. e.g: Thrumfall dragon max range, stealth running to random pulls by a stealthed burg in Thikil Gundu so you know what pull you're getting, running to a boss room and mini-flop (fixed) so you can ignore adds, using some class skills that are not balanced for that fight... those are not "pure intended way" or "honourable" but I wouldn't ever ban anyone for doing it if it was my decision.

    Scenario 2: You are doing a fight in which you don't know an exploit and by pure luck something buggs (like unbroken one no vortex in throne) and you take advantage over it and finish it that way. This could be considered an exploit but an unintentional uncontrollable one, so here it would be on the not sure category, thus meaning not a ban but if you get a world first title this way it should be removed. If you force this bug to happen it would be next category:

    Scenario 3: You figured out an exploit in a fight and make it appear all the time to complete a fight ignoring most/all mechanics (spots where you don't get hit, ways to bug boss/adds on certain fights...). These are the true definition of exploit and then should be banned the regular course: first week, then longer, then permanent.

    Scenario 4: You figure out an exploit that affects greatly the game working and the mechanics, example a way to clone items, or a way to multiple loot a boss chest that you shouldn't be able to without fighting. This allow you to basically break the game for you and for the rest of the comunity too: This should be permaban if you're doing it multiple times and intentionally.

    And as final statement: If you test in beta a bug, it's been reported many many times even on live servers I think SSG got no right to ban or complain if they didn't fix it after a reasonable amount of time. In fact It would be a good lesson for SSG if EVERYONE did those exploits so they had no other choice but to fix them soon, maybe we'll have a less bug-filled game after few updates, but who knows.

 

 
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