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  1. #1

    Stats at 120 to aim for

    Hi, does any experienced champ know how much crit we should be aiming for at 120 just want to get an idea of balance when taking into account:

    Crit
    Physical Mastery
    Finesse
    Physical Mit
    Tactical Mit

    At the moment i have 22% Crit is that too much? Cap i think is 25%.

    Many thanks in advance for the replies.

  2. #2
    Would be nice if you can provide us with your current numbers (numerical).
    Im not a fan of mitigation's atm., it depends on your experience/play stile but you dont need them in general.
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum, the chance that I read them is low.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
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    + Gertes in concern of mitigations

    For crit I'd say aim at least for 25%. better more, depends on what content you play and what gear you are able to get.
    Current instance gear before Raid, I'm at 272k mastery and 150k crit with 2h weapon/red line.
    Thats 25%, but you can go up to 30% crit since you get 5% from the first trait in red line which you will always take ofc.
    With the new 3 slot armors from the raid, on bullroar it was possible to cap both, even without new jewellery.

    edit: Dont bother too much with finesse, you should get what you need from your gear automatically. Nothing slotted I'm at 100k wich is ~30%

  4. #4
    Crit is 21.6%
    Mastery is 212k
    Finesse 60k
    Phys mit 136k
    tact mit 48k

    What phys mit i need for instances and what tact mit i need for instance (ie caverns it tact mit needed??)

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Harkenheim View Post
    Crit is 21.6%
    Mastery is 212k
    Finesse 60k
    Phys mit 136k
    tact mit 48k

    What phys mit i need for instances and what tact mit i need for instance (ie caverns it tact mit needed??)
    I dont think you need addition physical mitigation, tactical is very situational like Thrumfall (what is already hard for champions on t2, even finding groups will be a problem).
    The Mastery seems a bit high, compared to your Finess and Crit, are the 21,6% crit your base or with the 5% from red?
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum, the chance that I read them is low.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    I dont think you need addition physical mitigation, tactical is very situational like Thrumfall (what is already hard for champions on t2, even finding groups will be a problem).
    The Mastery seems a bit high, compared to your Finess and Crit, are the 21,6% crit your base or with the 5% from red?
    Seems like you misread his PM value. It´s 212k, not 312k which indeed would be a bit too high. With 212k it seem totally in line with his other (offensive) numbers, which are all around two third of what he should aim for.
    Server Gwaihir - Kinship Nightfalls

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Schaijian View Post
    Seems like you misread his PM value. It´s 212k, not 312k which indeed would be a bit too high. With 212k it seem totally in line with his other (offensive) numbers, which are all around two third of what he should aim for.
    well i have 240k atm^^ and i guess my gear is much better then his, i stacked much more crit essences then pm.
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum, the chance that I read them is low.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by LoopingLouie View Post
    + Gertes in concern of mitigations

    For crit I'd say aim at least for 25%. better more, depends on what content you play and what gear you are able to get.
    Current instance gear before Raid, I'm at 272k mastery and 150k crit with 2h weapon/red line.
    Thats 25%, but you can go up to 30% crit since you get 5% from the first trait in red line which you will always take ofc.
    With the new 3 slot armors from the raid, on bullroar it was possible to cap both, even without new jewellery.

    edit: Dont bother too much with finesse, you should get what you need from your gear automatically. Nothing slotted I'm at 100k wich is ~30%
    Just wondering if you could post a screenshot of gear. Sounds like a good build.

    Cheers

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    20
    It depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for t3, then you should have around 100k finesse. And for caverns t2 champion can go tank, I've done it several times. My stats:

    Crit: 22.5%
    Mastery: 250k.
    Finesse: 104K (red), 115k (yellow)

    I have swap pieces with tact mit for caverns/dwarves in TG.
    Telliol, Champion of Laurelin.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    70
    I have all teal equipment for my dps set. I chose the tanking boots because they give Tactical Mitigation + Vitality instead of worthless Fate/Might.
    I'm using 11 t12 Physical Mastery essences + 6 t12 Critical Rating essences, plus 1 PM and 1 CR Nothern Stronghold essences which I still keep in my level 115 gold pocket item.

    Physical Mastery: 244 k (+189.2%)
    Critical Rating: 165 k (+ 26.2%)
    Finesse: 109 k (+32.6%)

    142 k physical mitigation (46.3%)
    40 k tactical mitigation (18.5%)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeg View Post
    I have all teal equipment for my dps set. I chose the tanking boots because they give Tactical Mitigation + Vitality instead of worthless Fate/Might.
    I'm using 11 t12 Physical Mastery essences + 6 t12 Critical Rating essences, plus 1 PM and 1 CR Nothern Stronghold essences which I still keep in my level 115 gold pocket item.

    Physical Mastery: 244 k (+189.2%)
    Critical Rating: 165 k (+ 26.2%)
    Finesse: 109 k (+32.6%)

    142 k physical mitigation (46.3%)
    40 k tactical mitigation (18.5%)
    244k Mastery are 178,18%
    I would sugest to al least equip 2 critt essences more.
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum, the chance that I read them is low.
    The best way is via Discord:
    Gertes#5389

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    244k Mastery are 178,18%
    I would sugest to al least equip 2 critt essences more.
    I would suggest you double check your facts before you try to correct other people.

    It turns out it's 184.2, not 189.2. Sorry about the mistake, I have a less than excellent eyesight, regrettably.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeg View Post
    I would suggest you double check your facts before you try to correct other people.

    It turns out it's 184.2, not 189.2. Sorry about the mistake, I have a less than excellent eyesight, regrettably.
    Well i could tell you the same, i bet you tested this with dual wielding in red what gives 6% more damage!
    You just need to look in the Lotro wiki and you would know that you are wrong.
    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/File:GR_mast120.png
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum, the chance that I read them is low.
    The best way is via Discord:
    Gertes#5389

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    Well i could tell you the same, i bet you tested this with dual wielding in red what gives 6% more damage!
    You just need to look in the Lotro wiki and you would know that you are wrong.
    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/File:GR_mast120.png
    Because 189.2 minus 184.2 is 6 right....no wait it's 5.
    Also, duel wield +6% damage has nothing to do with mastery. It adds to your skill damage, not mastery %.
    Captain-General Narthrivor r15 Hunter - r12 Warden - r12 Champion - r7 Captain - r6 Guardian - Phoenix Legion and Innocent raid alliance - Laurelin EN-RP

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoFTW View Post
    Because 189.2 minus 184.2 is 6 right....no wait it's 5.
    Also, duel wield +6% damage has nothing to do with mastery. It adds to your skill damage, not mastery %.
    I would suggest you take a actual look ingame, im so tired of people who claim to be right, but don't know how the game works.
    He wrote he has 184,2%, minus my 6 its 178,2. Oh wonder, the number that i wrote earlyer....
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum, the chance that I read them is low.
    The best way is via Discord:
    Gertes#5389

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    I would suggest you take a actual look ingame, im so tired of people who claim to be right, but don't know how the game works.
    He wrote he has 184,2%, minus my 6 its 178,2. Oh wonder, the number that i wrote earlyer....
    Possibly it really was 189.2% at first. This would have included the already named 6% from red and additionally 5% from a damage scroll.
    Server Gwaihir - Kinship Nightfalls

  17. #17
    Join Date
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    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    Well i could tell you the same, i bet you tested this with dual wielding in red what gives 6% more damage!
    You just need to look in the Lotro wiki and you would know that you are wrong.
    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/File:GR_mast120.png
    Yes, this is obviously in red. Both my damage and my crit are calculated according to the stance I use in dps mode. Nothing too extraordinary in that. The extraordinary would be to refuse the benefits of permanent passive buffs. That's the difference with Battle Frenzy, which in the practice makes Champions' PM higher, but it's not a permanent passive skill, so I didn't count it.

    I understand that you prefer yellow, which doesn't have permanent passive buffs, or two handed weapons which have different buffs. That might be all right for you, but doesn't affect my stats.

    I don't think I need to add anything else. You say I don't have those stats, but I do, so you're mistaken. You may say that not all Champions favour the same options, so they don't have those stats, and that's true. But those who prefer dual wielding in red, like me, have them. Simple.

  18. #18
    Join Date
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    70
    Quote Originally Posted by Schaijian View Post
    Possibly it really was 189.2% at first. This would have included the already named 6% from red and additionally 5% from a damage scroll.
    No, that's not right. I was unbuffed. The most likely explanation is that I didn't read the tooltip correctly.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeg View Post
    Yes, this is obviously in red. Both my damage and my crit are calculated according to the stance I use in dps mode. Nothing too extraordinary in that. The extraordinary would be to refuse the benefits of permanent passive buffs. That's the difference with Battle Frenzy, which in the practice makes Champions' PM higher, but it's not a permanent passive skill, so I didn't count it.

    I understand that you prefer yellow, which doesn't have permanent passive buffs, or two handed weapons which have different buffs. That might be all right for you, but doesn't affect my stats.

    I don't think I need to add anything else. You say I don't have those stats, but I do, so you're mistaken. You may say that not all Champions favour the same options, so they don't have those stats, and that's true. But those who prefer dual wielding in red, like me, have them. Simple.
    do you solely dual wield in red? I'm not interested in the last 6 response debate I was just surprised to see a red line dual wield champ. if so, what reasons do you have for it?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeg View Post
    Yes, this is obviously in red. Both my damage and my crit are calculated according to the stance I use in dps mode. Nothing too extraordinary in that. The extraordinary would be to refuse the benefits of permanent passive buffs. That's the difference with Battle Frenzy, which in the practice makes Champions' PM higher, but it's not a permanent passive skill, so I didn't count it.

    I understand that you prefer yellow, which doesn't have permanent passive buffs, or two handed weapons which have different buffs. That might be all right for you, but doesn't affect my stats.

    I don't think I need to add anything else. You say I don't have those stats, but I do, so you're mistaken. You may say that not all Champions favour the same options, so they don't have those stats, and that's true. But those who prefer dual wielding in red, like me, have them. Simple.
    Yes, I totally understand you, but I find it helpful to add such information so everyone can relate where the different values come from.
    That's why I like to keep the numbers just numerical or at least clean the percentages up from extra buffs, so the comparison between different builds is easier.
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum, the chance that I read them is low.
    The best way is via Discord:
    Gertes#5389

  21. #21
    Join Date
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    70
    Quote Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth View Post
    do you solely dual wield in red? I'm not interested in the last 6 response debate I was just surprised to see a red line dual wield champ. if so, what reasons do you have for it?
    Let's not forget that this is a game and everyone plays the way they like.

    I think that toons in Lotro have their own life beyond the players. Speaking sort of metaphorically, of course --I'm not so far gone that I really believe that they're alive. But the same thing happens to characters in a book, authors always explain how characters tend to develop in unexpected ways, beyond the frame in which their creator originally placed them. Which I mean is that my Champion feels more confortable when dual wielding, so I accept that. Or, if you want, it's me who feels better and so I play better that way.

    I know that the general view is that two handed weapons deal more damage in red, but I don't think that the difference can be really big --I'm often the mightiest Champion (judged by aggro grabbing) in pugs. Then again, the debate between dual wielders and two handed wielders is as old as Lotro, and in the past dual wielders were usually considered the biggest damage dealers, but that didn't prevent two handers from playing the way they liked. Who knows, maybe after some upcoming update things will change again.

    There's also a practical side to this issue: the difficulty to grind new LIs. I left the game at level 85, and I was back at level 115. I decided that 4 LIs for my Champion were enough: 2 dps LIs and 2 tankig LIs. There were hundreds upon hundreds of SoE to grind, for a player who didn't have any high level toon to help, so 4 LIs was as far as I was willing to go. But being the game as it is, I was forced to use a 2-hander for tanking, so I absolutely refused to do the same for dps, since that would mean that I would never use dual wielding which I prefer. So, that's the explanation. I might have a bit lower dps in red than the best Champions, but I hardly notice it if it is so. We probably move in different spheres: my kin is almost inactive and I'm not in any raiding alliance, so it's just pugs for me. Plus, I refuse to use macros or other aiding systems beyond what the game offers in its standard build, so I know I'll never be at the level of T2 raiders anyway.*

    But let's not forget that this is a game and everyone plays the way they like.

    *Edit: although in the past my kin was a T2 raiding kin, and I remember vaguely that we were first or second in our server to beat the Tower of Orthanc. So, really, at least then it was possible to do all the content without macros.
    Last edited by Maeg; Jan 17 2019 at 10:14 AM.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeg View Post
    Let's not forget that this is a game and everyone plays the way they like.

    I think that toons in Lotro have their own life beyond the players. Speaking sort of metaphorically, of course --I'm not so far gone that I really believe that they're alive. But the same thing happens to characters in a book, authors always explain how characters tend to develop in unexpected ways, beyond the frame in which their creator originally placed them. Which I mean is that my Champion feels more confortable when dual wielding, so I accept that. Or, if you want, it's me who feels better and so I play better that way.

    I know that the general view is that two handed weapons deal more damage in red, but I don't think that the difference can be really big --I'm often the mightiest Champion (judged by aggro grabbing) in pugs. Then again, the debate between dual wielders and two handed wielders is as old as Lotro, and in the past dual wielders were usually considered the biggest damage dealers, but that didn't prevent two handers from playing the way they liked. Who knows, maybe after some upcoming update things will change again.

    There's also a practical side to this issue: the difficulty to grind new LIs. I left the game at level 85, and I was back at level 115. I decided that 4 LIs for my Champion were enough: 2 dps LIs and 2 tankig LIs. There were hundreds upon hundreds of SoE to grind, for a player who didn't have any high level toon to help, so 4 LIs was as far as I was willing to go. But being the game as it is, I was forced to use a 2-hander for tanking, so I absolutely refused to do the same for dps, since that would mean that I would never use dual wielding which I prefer. So, that's the explanation. I might have a bit lower dps in red than the best Champions, but I hardly notice it if it is so. We probably move in different spheres: my kin is almost inactive and I'm not in any raiding alliance, so it's just pugs for me. Plus, I refuse to use macros or other aiding systems beyond what the game offers in its standard build, so I know I'll never be at the level of T2 raiders anyway.*

    But let's not forget that this is a game and everyone plays the way they like.

    *Edit: although in the past my kin was a T2 raiding kin, and I remember vaguely that we were first or second in our server to beat the Tower of Orthanc. So, really, at least then it was possible to do all the content without macros.
    no worries, yout money your time. I dont care how you play. i was hoping to learn something new is all.

  23. #23
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeg View Post
    Let's not forget that this is a game and everyone plays the way they like.

    I think that toons in Lotro have their own life beyond the players. Speaking sort of metaphorically, of course --I'm not so far gone that I really believe that they're alive. But the same thing happens to characters in a book, authors always explain how characters tend to develop in unexpected ways, beyond the frame in which their creator originally placed them. Which I mean is that my Champion feels more confortable when dual wielding, so I accept that. Or, if you want, it's me who feels better and so I play better that way.

    I know that the general view is that two handed weapons deal more damage in red, but I don't think that the difference can be really big --I'm often the mightiest Champion (judged by aggro grabbing) in pugs. Then again, the debate between dual wielders and two handed wielders is as old as Lotro, and in the past dual wielders were usually considered the biggest damage dealers, but that didn't prevent two handers from playing the way they liked. Who knows, maybe after some upcoming update things will change again.

    There's also a practical side to this issue: the difficulty to grind new LIs. I left the game at level 85, and I was back at level 115. I decided that 4 LIs for my Champion were enough: 2 dps LIs and 2 tankig LIs. There were hundreds upon hundreds of SoE to grind, for a player who didn't have any high level toon to help, so 4 LIs was as far as I was willing to go. But being the game as it is, I was forced to use a 2-hander for tanking, so I absolutely refused to do the same for dps, since that would mean that I would never use dual wielding which I prefer. So, that's the explanation. I might have a bit lower dps in red than the best Champions, but I hardly notice it if it is so. We probably move in different spheres: my kin is almost inactive and I'm not in any raiding alliance, so it's just pugs for me. Plus, I refuse to use macros or other aiding systems beyond what the game offers in its standard build, so I know I'll never be at the level of T2 raiders anyway.*

    But let's not forget that this is a game and everyone plays the way they like.

    *Edit: although in the past my kin was a T2 raiding kin, and I remember vaguely that we were first or second in our server to beat the Tower of Orthanc. So, really, at least then it was possible to do all the content without macros.

    In general this fits my reason for DW in red as well. This DW vs 2H debate has gone on forever and fortunately there really isn't a big difference for most situations. When I started playing a Champ they could use shields although my reason for playing this class was DW so I hardly ever used one. I do have a FA 2H which has yellow trait legacies and is good for a more defensive mode. Heck I've only used 3 LI's although I've thought about a second rune specifically for a blue/yellow combo. I guess if you want to compete in raids or T2-3 Instances then optimal stats are needed, but I'm not so I don't care. Different strokes for different folks
    "Never argue with a fool, it's difficult to tell the difference"

  24. #24
    Could I get an update to this thread in terms of stats to aim for at lvl 120?

    Thanks.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ConanHC View Post
    Could I get an update to this thread in terms of stats to aim for at lvl 120?

    Thanks.
    Try to cap crit, 225k.
    You don't need to hard cap mastery (about 304k), if you are doing mostly group/raid content, because additional buffs will help you here. So aim for about 275k.
    Then you have three options, for further improvements.
    1: stack crit rating to improve you devastate hit chance and crit/devast damage
    2: improve your defensive stats like moral or mitigations
    3: get your hands on older sets/gear to go for more glass cannon approach

    Generally, it depends on what kind of content you are doing.
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum, the chance that I read them is low.
    The best way is via Discord:
    Gertes#5389

 

 
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