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  1. #1

    The real reason why the action is bad

    because no one actually wants good action.


    everyone on both sides seems to be content with shuffling/camping all day long.

    Freeps are content to sit on the steps and pew-pew...
    despite having the ability to form a stable group and go elsewhere.

    Creeps are content to sit 45 meters from the steps and pew-pew...
    despite having the ability to form small groups and rotate/limit numbers and form small groups to 6v6 elsewhere


    PVP is currently relatively balanced between the 6 and 12 man ranges.... great action could happen, but no one actually wants it.


    Even when a 6 man freep group leaves GV and heads to LC/HOP/AEOP area and gets called out, none of the 20 or so creeps want to go check it out or make a small group to counter... and if they do show up, its all 20 at the same time.

    Even when there are enough freeps at GV to form a group, almost no one on freep tries to make a group out of it, even the so-called "leaders" who led groups in U21 and U22.



    Don't complain about bad action if you are making zero efforts at improving the action and are actively putting in effort to make the action terribad.

    You have no one to blame but yourselves. Its the players this time, not the game.
    Last edited by Saruman_Of_Numbers; Jan 10 2019 at 09:27 PM.
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Yes
    Posts
    169
    Rivawen - Trending - Emporio - Jabberwock - Badromance

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    L.A.
    Posts
    679
    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post
    because no one actually wants good action.


    everyone on both sides seems to be content with shuffling/camping all day long.

    Freeps are content to sit on the steps and pew-pew...
    despite having the ability to form a stable group and go elsewhere.

    Creeps are content to sit 45 meters from the steps and pew-pew...
    despite having the ability to form small groups and rotate/limit numbers and form small groups to 6v6 elsewhere


    PVP is currently relatively balanced between the 6 and 12 man ranges.... great action could happen, but no one actually wants it.


    Even when a 6 man freep group leaves GV and heads to LC/HOP/AEOP area and gets called out, none of the 20 or so creeps want to go check it out or make a small group to counter... and if they do show up, its all 20 at the same time.

    Even when there are enough freeps at GV to form a group, almost no one on freep tries to make a group out of it, even the so-called "leaders" who led groups in U21 and U22.



    Don't complain about bad action if you are making zero efforts at improving the action and are actively putting in effort to make the action terribad.

    You have no one to blame but yourselves. Its the players this time, not the game.
    yes mate you r right
    players r getting enough renown by this camp pew pew so they dont bother to do real pvp raiding that we used to do in the past
    when my kin was a kin in the moors we never camped n the soloers followed us! it was a good time but we r short in numbers nowdays

    on the other hand there r some solutions to this prob that the company may take if they wish to change things
    .improve range of GV n GF guardians
    .lower the renown earned per kill in areas close to GV n GF 90%
    .lower the renown earned in the moors to half for soloers
    .add renown buff for players in fellowships, +10 for 6 man, +15% for 12 man +20% for 24 man
    .lower the renown needed to earn ranks(so the new people find easier to rank up)
    .add new items n new tier of armour that is good enough for PVE(the skin with the white tree is very nice compering with the older)
    .add new ranks so the older players join again
    .add latest tier of essences after every update
    .add new creep classes the creeps asking for so long
    .add armour to the creeps making them equal to freeps
    .consider doing changes in osgiliath, the place is dead since day 1
    20 years lotr enthousiast, 11 years lotro player, lifetimer, Loyal member of the Spartans Kinship, now in Evernight imigrants from Eldar

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Valakircka View Post
    yes mate you r right
    players r getting enough renown by this camp pew pew so they dont bother to do real pvp raiding that we used to do in the past
    when my kin was a kin in the moors we never camped n the soloers followed us! it was a good time but we r short in numbers nowdays

    on the other hand there r some solutions to this prob that the company may take if they wish to change things
    .improve range of GV n GF guardians
    .lower the renown earned per kill in areas close to GV n GF 90%
    These two would suffice for now. The rest was an unneeded laundry list of items not likely to ever happen.


    It's always been this way after an update. Especially on the highest pvp populated servers, though this time around SSG stretched this time frame out to a ridiculous length. Near 3 months PvMP stands at a halt when options could have been implemented on day one of U23.
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    AFK in Gramsfoot
    Posts
    169
    On top of the decreased infamy/renown gain near GV and GF it might be a good idea to add hope and dread to areas around GV and GF.(If I remember correctly they even talked about this in a livestream years ago) When freeps are fighting at the steps of GV they'll get hope and creeps camping GV will get dread (or something else with the same effects if you want to argue that giving creeps is lorebreaking). The closer to GV, the more Hope/Dread freeps and creeps get. This would make it so GV/GF camping doesn't give out a lot of infamy/renown and would also make it a lot harder. This would imo also benefit open fields 1v1s. Right now the line is the 1 shotter range. It's living or dying. There isnt a middle ground where fights can still take place but are greatly affected by being nearby GV/GF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valakircka View Post
    .add renown buff for players in fellowships, +10 for 6 man, +15% for 12 man +20% for 24 man
    I think it should be the other way around to encourage players to fight in coordinated 6 man and not just a 24 man zerg which would lag just be lagfest for everyone involved.


    Mulatic
    R13 Reaver
    Arkenstone

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Valakircka View Post

    on the other hand there r some solutions to this prob that the company may take if they wish to change things
    .improve range of GV n GF guardians
    .lower the renown earned per kill in areas close to GV n GF 90%
    .lower the renown earned in the moors to half for soloers
    .add renown buff for players in fellowships, +10 for 6 man, +15% for 12 man +20% for 24 man
    The first two would help the situation, the last three would totally sh*t on the situation and make it 100 times worse. Leave solo renown gain as it is or even a small buff like it had before. Reward small groups like 3-6 man. Raid farming is already bad enough, you have masses of high ranked players that just sit in their raid and push the dps button with no concept of how their class synergizes with others. We need to discourage zerging, camping, and shuffling by all means necessary, not reward it like you’re asking for with these changes.
    ~ Anaxander R9 Warden, Karukh R11 Warg ~ Elendilmir
    **Mac User**

  7. #7
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  8. #8
    Been some nice rvr on Evernight the last few days, what seems to be the biggest action breaker is when a side wipes the defeated side will tend to come back with more heals or more numbers mainly due to switchers, this in return deflates player morale hence the players return to the grams/gv and sit it out till the overkill side starts to thin out.


    Fixes:
    1 Diminished returns on over healing (player gets heal stacked becomes immune to any inc heals for x amount of time inc self healing)
    2 Remove outpost buffs.
    3 longer cd on switching.

    Lot players want to roam around the map and still do, like i mentioned above the current mechanics just forces the tide to one side every time a RvR gets going.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post
    because no one actually wants good action.


    everyone on both sides seems to be content with shuffling/camping all day long.

    Freeps are content to sit on the steps and pew-pew...
    despite having the ability to form a stable group and go elsewhere.

    Creeps are content to sit 45 meters from the steps and pew-pew...
    despite having the ability to form small groups and rotate/limit numbers and form small groups to 6v6 elsewhere


    PVP is currently relatively balanced between the 6 and 12 man ranges.... great action could happen, but no one actually wants it.


    Even when a 6 man freep group leaves GV and heads to LC/HOP/AEOP area and gets called out, none of the 20 or so creeps want to go check it out or make a small group to counter... and if they do show up, its all 20 at the same time.

    Even when there are enough freeps at GV to form a group, almost no one on freep tries to make a group out of it, even the so-called "leaders" who led groups in U21 and U22.



    Don't complain about bad action if you are making zero efforts at improving the action and are actively putting in effort to make the action terribad.

    You have no one to blame but yourselves. Its the players this time, not the game.
    All this is why I quit and said I won't return even if we got old pvp back. Unless the old community returns the PvP will be entirely shufflers. The old players wanted good fights and to destroy the other faction regardless of points. We were chasing deeds/titles cause they meant something. Now SSG facilitated those players leaving. But the end result is PvP is done unless you get an influx of players who want real action not just shuffle points.

    (Retired... Maybe un-retired?) Arkenstone: Immanitas R12 Burg, Gorbat R12 Reaver, Sueahpro R11 Mini, Falsified R9 RK, -The Blood Hand
    Crickhollow: Orphluk R9 Warg, Orphelun-1 R8 RK. -The Blood Hand.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Groton, CT
    Posts
    360
    Meh.





    The Legendary Servers are our only hope!
    Jimi's Mash

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    808
    Quote Originally Posted by J-Moneyforever View Post
    All this is why I quit and said I won't return even if we got old pvp back. Unless the old community returns the PvP will be entirely shufflers. The old players wanted good fights and to destroy the other faction regardless of points. We were chasing deeds/titles cause they meant something. Now SSG facilitated those players leaving. But the end result is PvP is done unless you get an influx of players who want real action not just shuffle points.
    Problem is that changes to infamy/renown gains over time rewarded massive amounts of easy kills with larger groups over the other side instead of rewarding even or outnumbered fights. This pushed away most people who actually wanted to pvp and basically made character progression via rank the only appeal of the moors since the pvp was so abysmal.
    Eredor-Champion, Ereworn-Minstrel, Ereshorn-Runekeeper, Eresworn-Hunter, Eremourn-Burglar, Erehorn-Captain, Erelorn-Warden, Eretorn-Lore-Master, Erescorn-Guardian... And Erecorn-Master Farmer

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dselden View Post
    Problem is that changes to infamy/renown gains over time rewarded massive amounts of easy kills with larger groups over the other side instead of rewarding even or outnumbered fights. This pushed away most people who actually wanted to pvp and basically made character progression via rank the only appeal of the moors since the pvp was so abysmal.
    I agree and disagree. That point change (which did drive some off) went through pre-85. And 85 pvp was some of the best I ever experienced. But imo some of the things that drove the good pvpers away in droves was the trait trees, the decision to go to an absurdly grind based gearing system that felt unrewarding and unfun. Epic battles of course drove people away because they were a dumpster fire. And finally a general lack of support for pvp. Lag got worse and we got no response. Creeps had a plethora of traits that hadn't been updated in years and we got no response. Freeps went months in to level caps without receiving new pvp armour, and when they did receive it they found it wasn't remotely competitive with the grind fest armour. All around it felt like post 85 and to some extent post 75. The execs at SSG/Turbine made calculated decisions to minimize the dev resources put into PvP and maximize the possible monetization while ignoring any calls for server optimization. This game had 800k subs at it's height, and while no game lasts forever if they had continued to put the thought and effort in that they did at the beginning it could easily still have 200k+ subs. Instead I would guess that they're not above 10k. Lesson is that money grabs and treating player desires with contempt never works.

    (Retired... Maybe un-retired?) Arkenstone: Immanitas R12 Burg, Gorbat R12 Reaver, Sueahpro R11 Mini, Falsified R9 RK, -The Blood Hand
    Crickhollow: Orphluk R9 Warg, Orphelun-1 R8 RK. -The Blood Hand.

 

 

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