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  1. #1
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    Champions useless once more.

    After all that damage that you done to as champions with Abyss raid and not only i was expecting at least for the new Anvil raid and from all that you heard all this time in forums that you had learn your lesson and could make champions useful again like they were at Pelennor and before that.But no the new Anvil raid is good only for range dps and champions are completely useless once more.Why you keeping us i dont know delete the damn class and keep only the range ones.Sorry to say but your developers has no imagination at all.If you cannot keep your customers happy you are failed and we dont ask much we ask only to be useful in raids and instances at least for 6 and 12 men.Even the new 3 person instance you destroy it by giving reflect to melee damage.
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  2. #2
    Have you done the raid? I personally have not seen any mechanics that were overtly anti melee, but I was on ranged dps so perhaps there is something I have missed.

    EDIT: I looked at what you wrote on the anvil feeback page, don't worry, T2 includes a lot more adds on certain bosses
    44 Bulldog

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smapper View Post
    Have you done the raid? I personally have not seen any mechanics that were overtly anti melee, but I was on ranged dps so perhaps there is something I have missed.
    Why to take a champion when range can do better dps in single target and dont have to run behind the bosses all the time.I didnt say that its cannot been done well at least T1 and maybe T2 i said that they make us again useless cause no AOE needed in any boss fight.Even between bosses you can take an RK instead of champion so you could have better dps later for the bosses.I done it yes i done bosses 1-2-3 on T1 and from what i sow i didnt even have the mood to continue so i quit after couple of tries in boss 4.Tommorow i will do it T2 with my kin so i will feel probably even more useless than i did today....
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  4. #4
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    Dunno about you ... but Boss 1 T2 is perfect for champs for their AoE on the adds.. XD
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorebane View Post
    Dunno about you ... but Boss 1 T2 is perfect for champs for their AoE on the adds.. XD
    But you dont kill the adds you put a tank to keep them away you kill the boss and thats it
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smapper View Post
    .

    EDIT: I looked at what you wrote on the anvil feeback page, don't worry, T2 includes a lot more adds on certain bosses
    You gave me some hope cause i become realy depressed after tonight's run.I hope you are right
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    But you dont kill the adds you put a tank to keep them away you kill the boss and thats it
    So far, as far as I've seen 6 kins have done T2 already. (probably more but this is all I know personally! :P)
    3 of them have split dps and killed the adds then swapped to the boss.

    The other groups have kited, however they've stacked dps because by the time the tanks run buffs has run out, the adds catch up and nuke the tank - especially when the adds bug and spawn both add mobs at the same time. ( which is been a very annoying this )
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  8. #8
    Please stop complaining about the melee unfairness in the raid like that. Just plain wrong

    Since Beta you are complaing and you mentioned at one point that you not even tried the raid before. Just arguing with stuff others wrote.

    We did our complete T2 first run with a champion and he is saying that it's not bad.

    You are able to compete with top damage dealers in red line (often being the top Damage dealer) in the new raid and you are also still the best aoe DD.
    You just need to know how to play your class. It's easy to say you need to know how to play your class and most people react pretty alergic to that. Then why are you not a better/equal choice compared to a runekeeper etc. like you wrote in your post.

    There are only 3 mechanics in total which are melee unfriendly. There are even mechanics for ranged classes like kicks, that force you to stay near a boss, otherwise resulting in a dead body.
    Any other Mechanic can affect ranged classes the same way it does affect melee classes.
    Last edited by Fureo; Jan 11 2019 at 03:36 PM.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fureo View Post
    Please stop complaining about the melee unfairness in the raid like that. Just plain wrong

    Since Beta you are complaing and you mentioned at one point that you not even tried the raid before. Just arguing with stuff others wrote.

    We did our complete T2 first run with a champion and he is saying that it's not bad.

    You are able to compete with top damage dealers in red line (often being the top Damage dealer) in the new raid and you are also still the best aoe DD.
    You just need to know how to play your class. It's easy to say you need to know how to play your class and most people react pretty alergic to that. Then why are you not a better/equal choice compared to a runekeeper etc. like you wrote in your post.

    There are only 3 mechanics in total which are melee unfriendly. There are even mechanics for ranged classes like kicks, that force you to stay near a boss, otherwise resulting in a dead body.
    Any other Mechanic can affect ranged classes the same way it does affect melee classes.

    I will stop complaining when they make my class useful.Try to play champ a bit and you will understand of what i am dealing with in every instance since Mordor.

    Since beta i am complaining yes but noone listen to me thats why i run behind bosses right now and my aoe is useless in every fight inside the raid except the trash

    I cannot compete and make more dps than geard and skilled rks and hunters its impossible when i run behind bosses.I play for 11 years now in raids with my champ 9 with my hunter and 3 with my rk so i know well of what i am talking about.Even my stats are lower cause i have to put mitigation on and they go glass cannon.I can compete only medium skilled hunters or Rks.In AOE yes i am the best dps but no AOE is useful since Mordor so...

    I could say much more but i am realy tired cause for 4 hours i was running behind the first boss in new raid trying to make as much dps as possible and i feel a bit dizzy right now so good night...
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  10. #10
    But that isn't a problem of your class.

    That's your tactic, just stand still and you don't have to run behind the boss.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Fureo View Post
    Please stop complaining about the melee unfairness in the raid like that. Just plain wrong

    Since Beta you are complaing and you mentioned at one point that you not even tried the raid before. Just arguing with stuff others wrote.

    We did our complete T2 first run with a champion and he is saying that it's not bad.

    You are able to compete with top damage dealers in red line (often being the top Damage dealer) in the new raid and you are also still the best aoe DD.
    You just need to know how to play your class. It's easy to say you need to know how to play your class and most people react pretty alergic to that. Then why are you not a better/equal choice compared to a runekeeper etc. like you wrote in your post.

    There are only 3 mechanics in total which are melee unfriendly. There are even mechanics for ranged classes like kicks, that force you to stay near a boss, otherwise resulting in a dead body.
    Any other Mechanic can affect ranged classes the same way it does affect melee classes.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fureo View Post
    But that isn't a problem of your class.

    That's your tactic, just stand still and you don't have to run behind the boss.
    My problem with my class is that i need more dps in single line so i can close the gap between me and range dps when i have to deal with unfriendly mechanics like this one.
    Its not my tactic i am not the raid leader i just follow orders.From what i read in here most of the kins have done the first boss by kitting the adds and killing only the boss.That is what we try to do yesterday thats why i had to run behind the boss.

    Anyway i am sorry if i making you tired i wouldn't complain if i had for main another dps class but if you come to my place and they had put your class to the bench since Mordor then beleave me you probably have done the same or even quit the game.
    The only way to contact developers is from here and if i had another option i wouldn't write in here anyway.I dont care my complains to be seen by other players but only from developers so they can do something about it.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    My problem with my class is that i need more dps in single line so i can close the gap between me and range dps when i have to deal with unfriendly mechanics like this one.
    Its not my tactic i am not the raid leader i just follow orders.From what i read in here most of the kins have done the first boss by kitting the adds and killing only the boss.That is what we try to do yesterday thats why i had to run behind the boss.

    Anyway i am sorry if i making you tired i wouldn't complain if i had for main another dps class but if you come to my place and they had put your class to the bench since Mordor then beleave me you probably have done the same or even quit the game.
    The only way to contact developers is from here and if i had another option i wouldn't write in here anyway.I dont care my complains to be seen by other players but only from developers so they can do something about it.
    Jesus please....

    Your basic complain is that you have to play red line on bosses now instead of yellow, which you like more, and that you are not able to run after bosses. there is no really unfriendly melee mechanic in this raid.
    The other thing is that RK does more dps. So yes, the first choice dps wise might be RKs, BUT it's not like champ is useless at all or cant do anything in the raid.

    First boss e.g, why do you say you have to run after boss all time? just the 40sec someone has to kite with eye on him, other time this is just tank and spank.
    You choose a melee class and expect not to have to move in fights?

    So yes they could increase champ dmg in comparisen to other dps, but raid mechanics so far are totally fine.
    No problem taking a champ there.

    And yes I play champ since day one and now in this raid, i did in abyss and every raid before.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoopingLouie View Post
    Jesus please....

    Your basic complain is that you have to play red line on bosses now instead of yellow, which you like more, and that you are not able to run after bosses. there is no really unfriendly melee mechanic in this raid.
    The other thing is that RK does more dps. So yes, the first choice dps wise might be RKs, BUT it's not like champ is useless at all or cant do anything in the raid.

    First boss e.g, why do you say you have to run after boss all time? just the 40sec someone has to kite with eye on him, other time this is just tank and spank.
    You choose a melee class and expect not to have to move in fights?

    So yes they could increase champ dmg in comparisen to other dps, but raid mechanics so far are totally fine.
    No problem taking a champ there.

    And yes I play champ since day one and now in this raid, i did in abyss and every raid before.
    I dont like yellow more i like them both but my basic complain is that i feel useless.I dont want my kin to do me a favor to take me in i want to be useful.Why to take a champ and not a RK or a hunter in my place that makes more dps in single targets.So yes at least give me the same dps even then i will do lower cause i am heavy i wear mitigation's and i cannot as melee to stay still like you said so i loose dps anyway

    PS:From what i see i think many of you have not understand of what i want and there are many that misunderstood things that i said.I apologize if this is the problem i dont know English very well so maybe its my fault that i cannot express myself so well to make you understand i dont know.
    Last edited by Arandour; Jan 12 2019 at 07:30 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    I dont like yellow more i like them both but my basic complain is that i feel useless.I dont want my kin to do me a favor to take me in i want to be useful.Why to take a champ and not a RK or a hunter in my place that makes more dps in single targets.So yes at least give me the same dps even then i will do lower cause i am heavy i wear mitigation's and i cannot as melee to stay still like you said so i loose dps anyway

    PS:From what i see i think many of you have not understand of what i want and there are many that misunderstood things that i said.I apologize if this is the problem i dont know English very well so maybe its my fault that i cannot express myself so well to make you understand i dont know.
    A long time champ player like yourself should know that champs can perfectly dps while moving constantly.

  16. #16
    And you maybe don't understand me. YOU are absolutely able to compete with Hunter and Runekeeper in Single Target fights. Just choose a tactic where you don't kite the boss. It is not necessary to kite any of the Bosses from the new Raid.


  17. #17
    A champ in T2:

    Boss 1, not too useful but still decent (somewhat melee unfriendly)
    Boss 2: Very useful
    Boss 3: Not too useful but still pretty useful (not melee unfriendly in anyway)
    Boss 4: Dam near needed
    44 Bulldog

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smapper View Post
    A champ in T2:

    Boss 1, not too useful but still decent (somewhat melee unfriendly)
    Boss 2: Very useful
    Boss 3: Not too useful but still pretty useful (not melee unfriendly in anyway)
    Boss 4: Dam near needed

    Thank you for the info but it depends of the tactic that a raid leader choose to follow and i am not a raid leader.Others say that boss one is very good for champions others not same for all other bosses.Others use champs others not at all so i have to see for myself at T2.So far i try only boss one and it was terrible for me most of the time to run behind it i felt a bit useless.Some say that at T3 in boss 1 you have to deal with the adds so the raid leaders will force to change that kitting tactic and then we will be useful for that fight.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    Thank you for the info but it depends of the tactic that a raid leader choose to follow and i am not a raid leader.Others say that boss one is very good for champions others not same for all other bosses.Others use champs others not at all so i have to see for myself at T2.So far i try only boss one and it was terrible for me most of the time to run behind it i felt a bit useless.Some say that at T3 in boss 1 you have to deal with the adds so the raid leaders will force to change that kitting tactic and then we will be useful for that fight.
    Well even if there is a raid leader, every member of the raid should be able to voice his/her thoughts and the raid lead should adept the tactic accordingly. If just one or two persons give input on how to do the boss, this cant work properly in my opinion.
    Dont be that guy who says nothing but is unhappy about the whole situation. It is sometimes hard to be heard (as a champion ;D), but if you suffer from the situation change it.
    Gertes

  20. #20
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    Well we try first boss at Friday with that stupid kitting tactic with out to have to deal with the adds like most of you have done it and we fail.They already thinking of replacing me with range dps.Just saying...

    PS:I wonder why i stay to a game that for 2 years now destroy my mood when it has to do with group play.You suppose to play for having fan but with champ i have fan only solo anymore and that happens since Mordor.I am realy sad that i had spend almost 12 years of my life in here and so much money.Probably thats why i cannot decide to quit for sure this time but i think it matter of time anymore...
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    Well we try first boss at Friday with that stupid kitting tactic with out to have to deal with the adds like most of you have done it and we fail.They already thinking of replacing me with range dps.Just saying...

    PS:I wonder why i stay to a game that for 2 years now destroy my mood when it has to do with group play.You suppose to play for having fan but with champ i have fan only solo anymore and that happens since Mordor.I am realy sad that i had spend almost 12 years of my life in here and so much money.Probably thats why i cannot decide to quit for sure this time but i think it matter of time anymore...
    Focus the boss, if he's kiting just stand, it's the only boss thats somewhat melee unfriendly.
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  22. #22
    I think from all the posts here we can clearly see that the champion class itself is not the problem but more the player+the raid+the strategy.

    If you play your red champ maxed out+never move the first boss you should be able to do 100-120k dps while rk+hunter maybe do 120-140k dps. (yes ofc based on the given support).

    For boss 2 the yellow champion is super amazing and with way over 200k dps even stronger then a fire rk there.

    For boss 3 it is based on the strategy aswell. If you tank both targets together a yellow-red st/semi aoe build there should be able to do way over 100k dps aswell.

    For Boss 4 T2 the red champ is amazing + a live safer in a certain moment. quite sure thats something you will figure out yourself
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGuidi View Post
    I think from all the posts here we can clearly see that the champion class itself is not the problem but more the player+the raid+the strategy.

    If you play your red champ maxed out+never move the first boss you should be able to do 100-120k dps while rk+hunter maybe do 120-140k dps. (yes ofc based on the given support).

    For boss 2 the yellow champion is super amazing and with way over 200k dps even stronger then a fire rk there.

    For boss 3 it is based on the strategy aswell. If you tank both targets together a yellow-red st/semi aoe build there should be able to do way over 100k dps aswell.

    For Boss 4 T2 the red champ is amazing + a live safer in a certain moment. quite sure thats something you will figure out yourself

    The problem is that 1st boss run away with the eye behind someone + that bely thing that puss you far away so until you reach the boss again you loose much dps.If the guy with the eye is panicking then he run far away so i have to run behind the boss so i loose again dps and if that dragon drops that ice its even worst.Anyway thank you for the info.Sometimes i done about 80-90k dps with out support even that i run behind the boss but with the mechanics that i mention before my dps droped to 50k.lets hope that for T3 will be must to deal with adds or else champions are doomed at list for first one.Havent even reach the others at T2 yet so i have no opinion for the other fights.At T1 that i did it only once second boss was so messy that i went single again,same at third same at forth.
    Last edited by Arandour; Jan 13 2019 at 08:35 PM.
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    The problem is that 1st boss run away with the eye behind someone + that bely thing that puss you far away so until you reach the boss again you loose much dps.If the guy with the eye is panicking then he run far away so i have to run behind the boss so i loose again dps and if that dragon drops that ice its even worst.Anyway thank you for the info.Sometimes i done about 80-90k dps with out support even that i run behind the boss but with the mechanics that i mention before my dps droped to 50k.lets hope that for T3 will be must to deal with adds or else champions are doomed at list for first one.Havent even reach the others at T2 yet so i have no opinion for the other fights.At T1 that i did it only once second boss was so messy that i went single again,same at third same at forth.
    Well again, that you need to change your tactic or execution of the tactic. You can run with the eye relatively small circles, this way a red champ can constantly dps. If the slow field comes, use your 45sec sprint. To prevent getting kicked away from the boss, hug a wall.
    It is not the fault of the champion it's yours and your raid fault, when you can't deal your propper dps.
    Start to identify the problems you cause first and work on them, this will help you 100 times more then constanly writing the same stuff over and over again in the forum.
    Gertes

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    Well again, that you need to change your tactic or execution of the tactic. You can run with the eye relatively small circles, this way a red champ can constantly dps. If the slow field comes, use your 45sec sprint. To prevent getting kicked away from the boss, hug a wall.
    It is not the fault of the champion it's yours and your raid fault, when you can't deal your propper dps.
    Start to identify the problems you cause first and work on them, this will help you 100 times more then constanly writing the same stuff over and over again in the forum.
    I do all those things that you mention.I am not going to write anything anymore in the forums its pointless anyway
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