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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    Nobody cares, Radh. We've got Hobbits able to tank Balrogs in the face, items that spring out of nowhere and enter your TARDIS-like bags, and you're trying to make a spar for a reward seem impossible. Take a moment to realise the game isn't for you.
    Err... who's the one asking for something the game doesn't have, for all that? Something which could have been added years ago, if Turbine had wanted to? WoW's had arenas for twelve years (I just looked that up because it's been so damn long I wasn't sure), do you seriously imagine that had somehow escaped the attention of the devs here for all that time?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Err... who's the one asking for something the game doesn't have, for all that? Something which could have been added years ago, if Turbine had wanted to? WoW's had arenas for twelve years (I just looked that up because it's been so damn long I wasn't sure), do you seriously imagine that had somehow escaped the attention of the devs here for all that time?
    Yeah, it's normal for people to ask for additional features for a game that's looking to continue developing. Times change, games change, the development cycle works on different things, ideas are added at different times. People once asked for elk mounts and didn't get them immediately either. People are asking for an extension of what is already a pre-existing feature. Whether that fits in with your personal head-canon of LotRO is irrelevant, since you're not a gate-keeper of the game despite what you may think.

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    Yeah, it's normal for people to ask for additional features for a game that's looking to continue developing. Times change, games change, the development cycle works on different things, ideas are added at different times. People once asked for elk mounts and didn't get them immediately either. People are asking for an extension of what is already a pre-existing feature. Whether that fits in with your personal head-canon of LotRO is irrelevant, since you're not a gate-keeper of the game despite what you may think.
    And now you're just generalising. Nothing's changed about this game that makes arenas any better a fit here now than at any other time in its lengthy history. Was it somehow my "personal head-canon" that prevented traditional PvP appearing in this game to start with, then? The nature of the IP meant that this wasn't ever going to be a straightforwardly generic MMO (however much you might want it to be (like with those bizarre suggestions for new mounts you posted the other day), it's all a compromise between that and the native character of the source material. I don't get quite what I might prefer, and you don't either. But I'd venture to say that in this case what I'm saying is arguably more in keeping with the general character of the game. Last I looked our characters are still meant to be the heroes, not people who beat each other up for whatever 'cool rewards' you were imagining. Likewise with some of our characters being Elves (which for all the game's foibles, are still closer to Tolkien's version than what you'll see in other games) and hobbits, and it's hardly just my personal version to think of these Elves as being supposed to be fundamentally 'good people' or of hobbits as being generally disinclined to violence except in the defence of themselves or others. It's the way it's written, and like it or not that does have some bearing on what's in the game, some times more than others.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    And now you're just generalising. Nothing's changed about this game that makes arenas any better a fit here now than at any other time in its lengthy history. Was it somehow my "personal head-canon" that prevented traditional PvP appearing in this game to start with, then? The nature of the IP meant that this wasn't ever going to be a straightforwardly generic MMO (however much you might want it to be (like with those bizarre suggestions for new mounts you posted the other day), it's all a compromise between that and the native character of the source material. I don't get quite what I might prefer, and you don't either. But I'd venture to say that in this case what I'm saying is arguably more in keeping with the general character of the game. Last I looked our characters are still meant to be the heroes, not people who beat each other up for whatever 'cool rewards' you were imagining. Likewise with some of our characters being Elves (which for all the game's foibles, are still closer to Tolkien's version than what you'll see in other games) and hobbits, and it's hardly just my personal version to think of these Elves as being supposed to be fundamentally 'good people' or of hobbits as being generally disinclined to violence except in the defence of themselves or others. It's the way it's written, and like it or not that does have some bearing on what's in the game, some times more than others.
    Why do folks come out so vehemently against something that they wouldn't even use or even see as it is instanced.
    There is absolutely no need to keep blathering on about it. Have your say, discuss it, but this vendetta against anything pvp related is nonsensical.

    I could understand it if they were asking for open world pvp but they are not.
    ----A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything----

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    And now you're just generalising. Nothing's changed about this game that makes arenas any better a fit here now than at any other time in its lengthy history. Was it somehow my "personal head-canon" that prevented traditional PvP appearing in this game to start with, then? The nature of the IP meant that this wasn't ever going to be a straightforwardly generic MMO (however much you might want it to be (like with those bizarre suggestions for new mounts you posted the other day), it's all a compromise between that and the native character of the source material. I don't get quite what I might prefer, and you don't either. But I'd venture to say that in this case what I'm saying is arguably more in keeping with the general character of the game. Last I looked our characters are still meant to be the heroes, not people who beat each other up for whatever 'cool rewards' you were imagining. Likewise with some of our characters being Elves (which for all the game's foibles, are still closer to Tolkien's version than what you'll see in other games) and hobbits, and it's hardly just my personal version to think of these Elves as being supposed to be fundamentally 'good people' or of hobbits as being generally disinclined to violence except in the defence of themselves or others. It's the way it's written, and like it or not that does have some bearing on what's in the game, some times more than others.
    It's entirely your prerogative if you want to bury your head in the sand and think arenas don't fit the current game, but as I said your personal head-canon is entirely irrelevant and you are not the arbiter for this game.

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  6. #31
    Guys plz sto argue about lore break . Lotro already broke the lore 1000 or more times, i don't understand why it is still a thing of discussion.
    Argohald 120 Champion(main), Phokalin 120 Guardian, Helectra 105 Warden Aegean eagles kinship in Evernight
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleziana View Post
    Guys plz sto argue about lore break . Lotro already broke the lore 1000 or more times, i don't understand why it is still a thing of discussion.

    Well, there are limits to how far the lore can be broken,for example I am 100% against flying eagle mounts, no matter how much some people cry for them. Same goes for female dwarves looking like World of Warcraft.

    With that being said, I don't see PvP arenas being that big of a deal and I have nothing against the suggestion.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleziana View Post
    The winning team can also open a lootbox with with a chance to get end game perks like anfalas crystals, empowerments, solvents etc things that are more universal.
    No... fraggin... way.
    The only acceptable way to implement gain in PvP is if the losing team takes an equivalent loss. Otherwise it will be nothing but "we stand still while they defeat us, then we switch". Gaining loot in PvE means you got to beat that E as designed by devs, not a mock fight with your buddies.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    It's entirely your prerogative if you want to bury your head in the sand and think arenas don't fit the current game, but as I said your personal head-canon is entirely irrelevant and you are not the arbiter for this game.
    And what's supposed to be so different now from before? Apart from how we could now have the even more unlikely spectacle of High Elves and Beornings beating up hobbits for shinies, that is. (Plus that'd presumably be bearded High Elves riding around on cave-claws or gredbyg, if all your more recent suggestions came to pass at once). You seem to have acquired a sort of bizarre personal anti-canon that defines itself solely through being as bonkers as possible.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    And what's supposed to be so different now from before? Apart from how we could now have the even more unlikely spectacle of High Elves and Beornings beating up hobbits for shinies, that is. (Plus that'd presumably be bearded High Elves riding around on cave-claws or gredbyg, if all your more recent suggestions came to pass at once). You seem to have acquired a sort of bizarre personal anti-canon that defines itself solely through being as bonkers as possible.
    As I said, your personal head-canon is entirely irrelevant and you are not the arbiter for this game. Feel free to just re-read that line whenever you reply to me from now on.

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    As I said, your personal head-canon is entirely irrelevant and you are not the arbiter for this game. Feel free to just re-read that line whenever you reply to me from now on.
    I'm still waiting for you to explain how this arena business is somehow any more relevant to LOTRO now than it's been for the past eleven and three quarter years.

  12. #37
    there was a player who leveled a captain to 40, went to ost forod and invited world chat for a sparring match, can summon, only 2 other players responded

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by knnindy View Post
    there was a player who leveled a captain to 40, went to ost forod and invited world chat for a sparring match, can summon, only 2 other players responded
    Are you inferring that there is no call for pvp ? And you have decided this by a test that narrow ?

    I agree that this game has a unique pvp system which is 6-7 years past its prime. But, some (not me any more) still like to play it and want more from the game they pay for.

    The instanced pvp (not open world) could have been great. The IP suits it perfectly and the classes were great to play as a group. We know that Freep characters are great in group and so were the creeps as that is what they were meant to do.

    However, as we know from old Devs who have left, pvp was pooped on from a great height. It was far too complicated and difficult to balance with a full team of Devs and a full compliment of QA.

    If anyone thinks that anything meaningful will ever happen in pvp in this game again, then you really need to examine your own sanity.
    So stop feeding Rad because for all the biased anti pvp rhetoric espoused, he will have the last laugh as nothing will ever change.

    Peace
    WHY DO PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE LEAST, KNOW IT THE LOUDEST?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by knnindy View Post
    there was a player who leveled a captain to 40, went to ost forod and invited world chat for a sparring match, can summon, only 2 other players responded
    I've seen people turn down going to kill Torahammas. It doesn't mean people don't want to kill bosses in raids, either.

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    I've seen people turn down going to kill Torahammas. It doesn't mean people don't want to kill bosses in raids, either.
    Doro from Lotro Community?
    WHY DO PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE LEAST, KNOW IT THE LOUDEST?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TearMaker View Post
    Doro from Lotro Community?
    'Ello.

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothir View Post
    'Ello.
    Ah Gotcha @p

    Funnily enough I was re-reading the Aylwen posts regarding the real life inside Turbine back in and around the days that PvP took a poop dive... I still find it interesting even though I have read them most before...

    Wouldn't dare link them here though as not sure if current CM would react like him who shall not be named.....
    WHY DO PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE LEAST, KNOW IT THE LOUDEST?

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TearMaker View Post
    Wouldn't dare link them here though as not sure if current CM would react like him who shall not be named.....
    Yeah, I'm cautious about even mentioning the other side by name directly. No idea what the current policy is on it, though. But those threads were certainly interesting and hopefully savvy users here could find them with use of a search engine.

    Give Anor and Ithil PvMP.
    Before making a complaint here, ask yourself this: "Am I still giving SSG money?". If the answer is yes, there's no point complaining.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TearMaker View Post
    Ah Gotcha @p

    Funnily enough I was re-reading the Aylwen posts regarding the real life inside Turbine back in and around the days that PvP took a poop dive... I still find it interesting even though I have read them most before...

    Wouldn't dare link them here though as not sure if current CM would react like him who shall not be named.....
    I still go back and read that dev post from time to time, it was quite an eye opener.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by TearMaker View Post
    Ah Gotcha @p

    Funnily enough I was re-reading the Aylwen posts regarding the real life inside Turbine back in and around the days that PvP took a poop dive... I still find it interesting even though I have read them most before...

    Wouldn't dare link them here though as not sure if current CM would react like him who shall not be named.....
    Well, would you care to IM me a link?
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  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    Well, would you care to IM me a link?
    Sure, I will send the link.... in fact I think I remember you being quoted as proponents of everything anti pvp and whether views in the forums like yourselves ever swayed the way devs developed.

    It is quite surprising that it seems that ego and hubris seemed to rule the day and those that actually got code ratified and into the game usually had to take the route of what is the easiest thing anybody has asked for in the forum * and we will do that to shut up the smallest but most vocal group. It seems it was common to just infer that something was coming or in development when in reality it was never or would ever be even tabled.

    Beyond the realms of this thread and pvp in general.... it is a good read about how the transition from MEO through Sierra and up to around 2012 and then that persons subjective view from outside as a player until around 2015. Some frank observations around those that we thought were developing allies of the game, when really they were only really interested in making a name and their own personal pet projects.

    It is also interesting to learn that Lotro was in development as a console game and had working code. Also there was active development of a completely different form of pvp for this game many years after release.

    *Re. the section about KB's and how it was implemented because one person on the forum asked for it and it was really easy to get into game.
    WHY DO PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE LEAST, KNOW IT THE LOUDEST?

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    I suspect it may come under the same heading as no freep-vs.-freep PvP. The player characters are supposed to be members of the Four Free Peoples, united against the bad guys. Any Man, Dwarf, or Hobbit who's gone to the bad is an NPC.

    And a Hobbit who goes to the bad doesn't go very far: Ted Sandyman, e.g.

    And an Elf who's gone to the bad did so back in the First Age or earlier, and is now an Orc.
    There is absolutely no reason not to have freep vs freep and before you say it's against the lore for free peoples to work against each other or fight I invite you to actually read Tolkiens works.

    Different realms of power in middle earth have different ideas of how to fight the shadow and routinely seem to come into conflict with each other.

    All for freeps on freeps and creeps on creeps if it means faster match finding.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PANZERBUNNY View Post
    There is absolutely no reason not to have freep vs freep and before you say it's against the lore for free peoples to work against each other or fight I invite you to actually read Tolkiens works.
    Think again, there's no way you can argue it'd be okay to have Elves fighting among themselves (this isn't the Silmarillion we're talking about here, don't go trying to ignore the context of what happened there), nor to have 'good guy' Dwarves doing that either (playable Dwarves being the honourable sort, not given to beating each other up) and it will absolutely never be okay to have hobbits fighting each other.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Think again, there's no way you can argue it'd be okay to have Elves fighting among themselves (this isn't the Silmarillion we're talking about here, don't go trying to ignore the context of what happened there), nor to have 'good guy' Dwarves doing that either (playable Dwarves being the honourable sort, not given to beating each other up) and it will absolutely never be okay to have hobbits fighting each other.
    Rad I admire your persistence. I really do. I truly enjoy the world created we play on. It's detail is a wonder to behold concerning Tolkien's world. I still reflect on memories of my first days in the Shire. Finding places and features which brought my experience to a different level. My outlook on Tolkien's world is more complete than it would have ever been just by reading and listening to his books. This story is nearly over. I know it. You know it and so does SSG. SSG will stretch out this last mile as far as they can. You and I both know this too. Then what?


    Does the game end development? Does it shut down? Not if SSG has their way. Then what?

    Sooner or later this game will stray further than it has any time all thru the last 11 years from proper cannon. Why? Because it will have to or it will become stagnant. What I don't comprehend in your persistence on this matter is why do you care what pvpers do or how they do it. Its already a given pvpers will never fight on the landscape. Its a given that less than a majority will pvp. Yet Lore junkies (and other select niche players) still attack any notion involving pvp. With all that said, I also can't comprehend why those same players never comment about LotRO's near endless festivals. Players dressed as boxes running around. Players riding Elk. Players having Shrews the size of cows. Players flying Kites. Beornings running as fast or faster than horses. The list is virtually endless and you want to grab at pvpers?

    Any thread about pvp outside of the pvp section gets harassed by the same people spewing the same old bile. Sure many times its of a passive nature but it becomes obvious they have a disdain for pvp. To be frank most players who PvP couldn't give a rats ### about "their" foul breath. All pvpers want to do is compete against each other.


    So, as a past forum user dubbed you "Dr. Know" with your wide knowledge of Tolkien's lore, why can't you offer alternatives instead of always being Dr. NO?
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  25. #50
    Lore means so little to me when I can keep my weapons while being a prisoner in Isengard. I think it's called gameplay and story segregation in Tvtrope? It's ok to have it in a game.

    edit: Since we're talking about pvp, let me ask this...my orc reaver is an Overlord (Rank 14), yet I'm still being treated like maggot by the npcs who are lower ranked than me, where is my respect?

 

 
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