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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Turkey
    Posts
    48

    Problem with GMs

    In the past, when we sent a message, we would get a reply within a day. It's not like that anymore. We have to wait for days. Please find a solution.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by BayanWarden View Post
    In the past, when we sent a message, we would get a reply within a day. It's not like that anymore. We have to wait for days. Please find a solution.
    They don't have the capacity anymore. Since 2013 or so, they have had two major layoffs.... essentially reducing the staff in half each time, meaning they only have about a quarter of the staff they had 5 years ago. Some of this is natural progression, because ALL MMO's will eventually have less players than they had in their prime years, and with the competition being very stiff, Lotro is actually holding their own. But it does mean they have had to cut a lot of staff, and in turn the amount of time it takes to respond to any tickets.

    The thing that irritates me the most is when you are stuck on a bugged quest (actually my class quest was bugged on Anor, I had all the items in my inventory but the NPC wouldn't accept them - I had to cancel and re-do the first portion of the quest, and subsequently it did accept the items.), you file a ticket..... you wait like 4 hours, and then you log off for the night because you need your sleep..... only to find out that a GM responded while you were asleep, but couldn't do anything because you weren't online, and CLOSING the ticket!

    There are two things wrong here:

    1) They really need to change the game code so they can help with SOME things (such as advancing a quest) while you are offline.... You simply can't expect players to just wait around for 3-4 hours while a GM finally gets to their ticket.

    2) They really need to keep a ticket OPEN when you are offline. Typically in most support systems, they have a "three strikes" rule.... If they can't reach you the 1st time, they try again later. If they can't reach you a 2nd time, they try again later. If they can't reach you a 3rd time, you hit strike 3, and they close the ticket. SSG should implement something similar, and not just close the ticket on the first try.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  3. #3
    Often in the last years when I wrote tickets I got the message that the ticket was put on a watch-list (till my next login).

    If I knew I was going to stay online for a while I would simply submit a comment to my ticket and most of the time a GM and me managed to "make contact" (if direct communication was necessary or I would need to log or something). Or I got the issue solved without contact.

    If my ticket got closed due to being offline I simply made a new one and told them my old number.

    Sure doesn't help with an instance being stuck but others things worked fine so far.
    "...In the information society, nobody thinks. We expected to banish paper, but we actually banished thought."
    Ian Malcolm
    From: Crichton, Michael. Jurassic Park

  4. #4
    I've always gotten a reply within a day, with the GM being very helpful and in the event of me having multiple tickets in at once they take care of all of them on the spot.

  5. #5
    GMs are visiting others servers, too.

    Some might just say a quick hello and exchange some words with the players while working on some ticket(s) on that server.

    The last GM I saw in the chat on Belegaer in recent days was probably there to determine if that somewhat weird world chat was really getting more and more offensive as it looked like mobbing one player who by his own words didn't feel like being mobbed... I don't fault the GM for investigating and telling People to change tone, people have quite different opinions what fun is.

    In other cases I had a GM working on my ticket and interacting with people in the chat at the same time.
    "...In the information society, nobody thinks. We expected to banish paper, but we actually banished thought."
    Ian Malcolm
    From: Crichton, Michael. Jurassic Park

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Turkey
    Posts
    48
    I sended a message to Cordovan. What a absurd this... Every day GMs online but they're helping the person they want. I'm still waiting, still!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by BayanWarden View Post
    I sended a message to Cordovan. What a absurd this... Every day GMs online but they're helping the person they want. I'm still waiting, still!
    right.

    so after 25 years of dealing with online communities you are going to have to forgive me if i don't believe your particular issue is something that could be handled within a couple of hours. i have a sneaking suspicion you got caught doing something you aren't supposed to do, are appealing something and its a process that is going to take time. of course you are innocent - all forum posters who post about poor GM responses are innocent, every time - but my experience tells me to look at this thread and pretty much say..


    meh.

    I personally submitted two tickets since the legendary servers opened and I got a response within 24 hours, even on the weekend.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    647
    >They really need to keep a ticket OPEN when you are offline. Typically in most support systems, they have a "three strikes" rule.... If they can't reach you the 1st time, they try again later. If they can't reach you a 2nd time, they try again later. If they can't reach you a 3rd time, you hit strike 3, and they close the ticket. SSG should implement something similar, and not just close the ticket on the first try. <


    Exactly. This is something they can implement instantly with no changes to the game code.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    293
    Quote Originally Posted by Teyaha View Post
    so after 25 years of dealing with online communities you are going to have to forgive me if i don't believe your particular issue is something that could be handled within a couple of hours. i have a sneaking suspicion you got caught doing something you aren't supposed to do, are appealing something and its a process that is going to take time. of course you are innocent - all forum posters who post about poor GM responses are innocent, every time - but my experience tells me to look at this thread and pretty much say..

    meh.
    The player is talking about ingame support. You are implying that he was banned and is appealing it through the support website. These are two different things. I have a sneaking suspicion that you didn't read the post at all and came in with your own preconceived ideas which have no basis on fact at all.

    Then you start rambling randomly about how "all of the complaints on the forum about GMs are from not-so-innocent players". Stop living in a bubble.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Turkey
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by QueenArleth View Post
    The player is talking about ingame support. You are implying that he was banned and is appealing it through the support website. These are two different things. I have a sneaking suspicion that you didn't read the post at all and came in with your own preconceived ideas which have no basis on fact at all. Then you start rambling randomly about how &quot;all of the complaints on the forum about GMs are from not-so-innocent players&quot;. Stop living in a bubble.
    Yes!

    Also, some people are defending GMs. Do not defending the GMs to me! As before, they' re not doing their job properly. Some people say: "I send a ticket, I got a reply in one or two day.." etc. Ok you're right maybe. At that time, I can say they' re interested in who they want. That is all. Even, I am premium and VIP.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohemond71 View Post
    * How do you know the staff was halved during each layoff?
    The state of Massachusetts Department of Labor has a "WARN" Act (Worker Adjustment and Retraining Act), to which each company has to announce their layoffs 60 days in advance. If you play close attention to these reports, combined with the total amount of employees Turbine has (which can be found on investor reports), you can make pretty accurate conclusions. I saw these reports at the time of the layoffs (or rather, I looked them up).

    * Even if this is roughly true, how do you know this halving (x2) applied to all roles across the board equally?
    That information is not public. The WARN reports only list the NUMBER of employees, but not their positions. Over the years however, it has become clear from forum posts by staff that certain people were affected. Among others, the person that was responsible for the Bree revamp and Laila's store was let go, and as such the Bree revamp is left in an unfinished state (with Rohan humans, which was supposed to be fixed and a Laila's that has not been updated for years - since those layoffs.

    It's good to note here that the developers of Lotro also work on DDO, so that game was also affected. How each game was affected individually, isn't completely clear.... but such huge staff reductions certainly took its toll on development, quality control, and customer service.

    * You admit less players. How do you know the % reduction in GM stuff does not equal the % reduction in players?
    You are asking questions that you probably know the answer to yourself. Besides what is known publicly (such as the state WARN reports and such), Turbine/SSG never really made player information public. That said however: There are some fancy coders out there that know how to monitor the logons to each server, and have published this information. One such example is this link:

    http://lotrostats.gefallenehelden.de/

    Although partially in German, you can easily see the server logins over the years, going as far back as mid-2011 or so, when this site started recording. It won't give you an actual player count, but based on the logins per 5 minutes going years back, you see a pretty good drop in players. This is not because the game is failing or the game is bad, or anything like that..... virtually every game out there has a peak time, and many players just go and look for the next new shiny thing that is out there. It's a natural evolution of games, and has happened to every single MMO out there, even WoW, which boasted 14 million subscribers at some point, and by all estimates is now somewhere between 4 and 6 million. At some point, you have to look at your costs and expenses, and if less income comes in, it may mean they have to reduce some staff, and that is what happened several times during Turbine's life time.

    * Therefore, how do you know the slower response from GMs does not simply reflect an increase in the number of issues per player due to the increase in bugs and other issues with the ever degrading game?
    The only answer there can come from those who run the business analytics reports within SSG, and look at the factual data. We as players can only make assumptions based on our own experiences throughout the years. Turbine used to have phone support, and although I have never used it.... I know people in-game who have, and they were always helped quickly and efficiently. It wasn't uncommon back in 2011/2012 that if you were stuck on a quest in-game, that a GM would show up within 30 minutes and help you fix it. The last few times I was stuck in a quest, it took several days, and one of those times the ticket was closed for not being online.

    So from personal experience I can tell you support responsiveness has been down. From official department of labor reports we WERE (not sure if the old reports can still be found online) able to see how many people were laid off..... and the WARN act website might be a good place to keep checking in case you fear another layoff at SSG. Although I think they are as lean as they probably could be, so I don't think we have to worry, nor do they for their jobs.

    That said: GM's are fairly active on the Legendary Servers right now to ensure that there are no/few problems..... even to the point they are starting to have some fun with the community and making funny world wide announcements such as "I can spam whatever I want", which happened on Anor the other day.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    The state of Massachusetts Department of Labor has a "WARN" Act (Worker Adjustment and Retraining Act), to which each company has to announce their layoffs 60 days in advance. If you play close attention to these reports, combined with the total amount of employees Turbine has (which can be found on investor reports), you can make pretty accurate conclusions. I saw these reports at the time of the layoffs (or rather, I looked them up).



    That information is not public. The WARN reports only list the NUMBER of employees, but not their positions. Over the years however, it has become clear from forum posts by staff that certain people were affected. Among others, the person that was responsible for the Bree revamp and Laila's store was let go, and as such the Bree revamp is left in an unfinished state (with Rohan humans, which was supposed to be fixed and a Laila's that has not been updated for years - since those layoffs.

    It's good to note here that the developers of Lotro also work on DDO, so that game was also affected. How each game was affected individually, isn't completely clear.... but such huge staff reductions certainly took its toll on development, quality control, and customer service.



    You are asking questions that you probably know the answer to yourself. Besides what is known publicly (such as the state WARN reports and such), Turbine/SSG never really made player information public. That said however: There are some fancy coders out there that know how to monitor the logons to each server, and have published this information. One such example is this link:

    http://lotrostats.gefallenehelden.de/

    Although partially in German, you can easily see the server logins over the years, going as far back as mid-2011 or so, when this site started recording. It won't give you an actual player count, but based on the logins per 5 minutes going years back, you see a pretty good drop in players. This is not because the game is failing or the game is bad, or anything like that..... virtually every game out there has a peak time, and many players just go and look for the next new shiny thing that is out there. It's a natural evolution of games, and has happened to every single MMO out there, even WoW, which boasted 14 million subscribers at some point, and by all estimates is now somewhere between 4 and 6 million. At some point, you have to look at your costs and expenses, and if less income comes in, it may mean they have to reduce some staff, and that is what happened several times during Turbine's life time.



    The only answer there can come from those who run the business analytics reports within SSG, and look at the factual data. We as players can only make assumptions based on our own experiences throughout the years. Turbine used to have phone support, and although I have never used it.... I know people in-game who have, and they were always helped quickly and efficiently. It wasn't uncommon back in 2011/2012 that if you were stuck on a quest in-game, that a GM would show up within 30 minutes and help you fix it. The last few times I was stuck in a quest, it took several days, and one of those times the ticket was closed for not being online.

    So from personal experience I can tell you support responsiveness has been down. From official department of labor reports we WERE (not sure if the old reports can still be found online) able to see how many people were laid off..... and the WARN act website might be a good place to keep checking in case you fear another layoff at SSG. Although I think they are as lean as they probably could be, so I don't think we have to worry, nor do they for their jobs.

    That said: GM's are fairly active on the Legendary Servers right now to ensure that there are no/few problems..... even to the point they are starting to have some fun with the community and making funny world wide announcements such as "I can spam whatever I want", which happened on Anor the other day.
    Waste of time writing such a long reply (that no one will read) to a memoryholed post, don't you think?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    20
    Yeah, it is *really* annoying when you hang around for 3-4 hours to get a reply after submitting a ticket, then give up, log onto another character and boom, within minutes the ticket is closed. This has happened multiple times to me and I almost get the impression that Customer Service is cherry picking tickets looking for offline characters so they can close the ticket out. I can see this happening, especially if they have some kind of quota to maintain.. That's all speculation of course, but it is sure the impression I get.

    I completely agree with the point made above that they should *NOT* close a ticket just because someone is offline. Implement that 3 strike rule at the very least. Or better yet, implement code changes so that more (if not all) tickets can be solved without a character having to be online. This would be far higher on the priority list for me than any new batch of cosmetics for the LOTRO store :P

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Decidion View Post
    Yeah, it is *really* annoying when you hang around for 3-4 hours to get a reply after submitting a ticket, then give up, log onto another character and boom, within minutes the ticket is closed. This has happened multiple times to me and I almost get the impression that Customer Service is cherry picking tickets looking for offline characters so they can close the ticket out. I can see this happening, especially if they have some kind of quota to maintain.. That's all speculation of course, but it is sure the impression I get.

    I completely agree with the point made above that they should *NOT* close a ticket just because someone is offline. Implement that 3 strike rule at the very least. Or better yet, implement code changes so that more (if not all) tickets can be solved without a character having to be online. This would be far higher on the priority list for me than any new batch of cosmetics for the LOTRO store :P
    I totally agree with you here, the closing of tickets while offline always seems to happen to me. I'm currently having trouble with the early allegiance quest in Udun called Men, Elves, Dwarves and hobbits for over a week now. I have done this quest 9 times already on other toons with no issues before but this time King Eomer just won't appear so I can hand the quest in, you can see his gold ring on the map but his invisibility spell is just to good for me to penetrate. I have finished all 4 allegiances now and he still won't appear even though the quest says 'speak to K.Eomer at the Udun Foothold'. I've tried two tickets already just for them to be closed the second you log out. I was thinking of just cancelling it but I'm worried it may effect further quests.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    647
    Just cancel the quest I don't think you even get experience if you somehow find Eomer to cash it in. He has been invisible to all but one of my characters.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    647
    Also, some people are defending GMs. Do not defending the GMs to me! As before, they' re not doing their job properly.<



    Some do a good job some do not. Stop opening threads if the only responses you consider acceptable are people agreeing with you.

 

 

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