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  1. #1

    Exclamation Champion in blue line: changes needed

    This topic is dedicated to administrators. I've been playing champion class for a long time, and i want to play blue line (tank) as well. But when i started trying at this update, i realized that need some changes at that line, because without it champion cant be fully good tank.
    1) Aggro problems.
    Champion has 2 skills that increases threat and make forced attack, and NO any other aggro skills: 1 solo-target aggro skill ("Champions challenge": cooldown is 30 seconds), and 1 AOE aggro skill ("True heroics": cooldown is 2 minutes!!!!!). There is no way to reduce their cooldown (no legacies, talents). So, how it works? Champion can tank pack of monsters only once per 2 minutes, and there is no right on mistake, because if the party has strong AOE dps, he will reaggro all monsters, and champion dont have any skills to aggro a pack except of True heroics. Champions AOE skills in blue line just do a small damage, and cant reaggro them back.
    My offer is to:
    - Lower cooldown of "True heroics" in blue line (make at least 1 minute cooldown)
    - Add to at least one AOE skill increasing threat effect ("Horn of champions" or "Riposte")
    2) Block/parry/evade and mitigations
    Champion has only 1 way to increase parry: talent "Fight through the pain" upon being critically hit: +10% parry increase.
    There are no skills, unlike other tanks, to increase block, parry or evade, so champions are kind of "punching bags". The same way, they cant wear shields, so they need to put in gear many mitigation essences (physical or tactical), so there is no space to put many block/parry/evade essenses. Tactical mitigation is the separate topic for the heavy armor classes. Heavy armor have the lowest rates of tactical mitigation among the light and medium armors. So if you want to tank monsters who deal tactical damage, with heavy armor, and WITHOUT shield, you need to place 10+ tactical mitigation essenses in your gear, so you physically can't place block/parry/evade essences because critical defence same needed.
    My offer is to:
    - Add to some skills block/parry or evade buffs in blue line that can be maintained during the battle (Look at wardens, they have cap of all mitigations and cap of block/parry/evades during the battles, because they wear medium armor (higher tactical mitigation than heavy), and many skills to buffs themselves)
    3) Useless skill "Dire need"
    The skill "Dire need" talent with an additional talent "Improved dire need". They both in total costs 6 trait points. Maximum healing with that skill is 25-30k to morale with a long cooldown, same as athelas essence. 25-30k is one monster hit (monster, not even boss), so what is usage of that skill that costs 6 trait points??
    My offer is to:
    - increase morale heal (on 100% morale), because otherwise there is no point to put trait points on it.
    4) Skill "Sudden defence" and passive trait to it "good defence/strong offence"
    "Sudden defence" has a maximum of about 43k morale bubble even with a legacy on rune. This value is too low. Bubble ends in 1-2 monsters hits, so it makes passive trait "good defence/strong offence" to become useless, because it works only while you have active bubble on you.
    My offer is to:
    - higher bubble value of skill "sudden defence" or to change this passive trait "good defence/strong offence" on something more useful at tank build.
    5) The final passive trait in blue line "Invincible"
    How is that trait works? For each 5% of health the champion is missing, his damage is increased while "Adamant" is active. Seriously? Skill "Adamant" is active for 15 seconds with legacy on rune. Without legacy, it lasts 10 seconds. With a 1 minute cooldown. I think that this passive "Invincible" is fully useless.
    My offer is to:
    - rework the last passive trait in blue line. May be it should work like that - for each 5% of health the champion is missing, his damage is increased (without any "adamants" or other skills). Or to make something new and useful at tank build.

    Dear admins. I said a lot at this topic, but i really want you to improve champions tanking opportunity, and may be any other useful changes. And as an experienced player for that class i made some offers to you to think about. You make many changes to other classes. Champions dont have the highest damage among the other classes. And they are melee, so in dungeons need to be careful, because melee are always at the epicenter of battles. So dont forget about brave class Champion. Dont let it die
    Last edited by xxAntimagexx; Dec 05 2018 at 01:24 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    920
    One of the champs I know runs around with 220k morale w/o buffs and has mannaged to tank all the content at T3 cap.
    I have ran with him multiple times when my Guard was on coldown and if given 2 seconds to gather mobs and aggro, it felt like a normal tank quite easily. He doesn't use a 2h weapon to tank, therefore he cannot block. And yet, it didn't seem like he needed any extra attention than what a Warden would need...

    I am at a loss how you describe that chanks can only tank once every 2 minutes because what I saw easily contradicts it. We even did double pulls after boss 3 in TG, and it felt just fine and in control.


    At the end of the day, you already have 2 viable lines (as a non-premium class), why beg for more? There are larger issues at hand.
    "Not all those who wander are lost....some are so stubborn that they always think they're going in the right direction."

    "The 4th age is the store age" - Hetweith

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by zipfile View Post
    One of the champs I know runs around with 220k morale w/o buffs and has mannaged to tank all the content at T3 cap.
    I have ran with him multiple times when my Guard was on coldown and if given 2 seconds to gather mobs and aggro, it felt like a normal tank quite easily. He doesn't use a 2h weapon to tank, therefore he cannot block. And yet, it didn't seem like he needed any extra attention than what a Warden would need...

    I am at a loss how you describe that chanks can only tank once every 2 minutes because what I saw easily contradicts it. We even did double pulls after boss 3 in TG, and it felt just fine and in control.


    At the end of the day, you already have 2 viable lines (as a non-premium class), why beg for more? There are larger issues at hand.
    Without 2h tanking t3 TG with double pulls? I guess you just a liar. I believe that champ can do T3 TG as tank with 2h, but not with extra pulls or smth. I didnt say that champ cant tank. I just offered changes to rebalance blue line, because he is much weak than guard or warden. And if you dont even have champ, why do you post here?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    18
    All the issues the OP mentions are real. I opened a thread in the Champion forum explaining how we can't perform as dps and need a lot of attention from devs, since our single target dps is low in comparison with the dps classes, plus all mechanics in the game favour (rather unfairly) ranged dps, and specifically Hunters.

    Apparently Champions are forced into tanking roles in all new content (with the only exception on Thikil-gundu, where there are so many trash pulls that Champions aren't refused in groups, but I call that a situational need of Champions, and not the general rule). But the sad truth is that also as tanks we are seriously underpowered in comparison with the other classes. The lack of shield, with the direct mitigations and the stats it provides in the off-hand is a reason of this, but the general philosophy seems to be that Champions are designed to be the inferior tank. Without shield we could also have high mitigations and aggro control, depending on the use of fervour. But we have too few skills for that (the few skills the OP mentioned).

    We are Champions and are used to fight the hard way always (and certainly we complain much less than other seriously overpowered classes), but the truth is that the class as it stands is good for solo content, but it falls clearly out of place in group content.

    I call for other players aware of the situation to explain it here, and I would call for the devs' attention to try and revamp both the single target line and the tanking line. Both are in need of a lot of love if Champions are to be considered a valuable addition to groups. Mind you I call for a revamp of both lines, but the absolute minimum would be for one of them to be on par with the other classes: either dps or tank (or both if possible!), but definitely not the situation where we are now. We aren't viable without good single target dps and without good tanking skills. That's the sad truth.

 

 

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