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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    Yeah but we need full slot to avoid the mess the devs give us. Even if they would have the idea/ the time to realizr it what a class needs. IT doesn't mean that I need this with this class, cause my playstyle is far from normal etc. Full slot gives exact this. The stats buold from ly perfect fitting for me. So Yeah we need 100% not only 10%.
    I am missing a statement on how many essences were *actually* different in your build in comparison to others. I'll guess. 5?

    What we're discussing here is that we need 100% flexibility to have a theoretical possibility that is practically not used.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinx View Post
    I am missing a statement on how many essences were *actually* different in your build in comparison to others. I'll guess. 5?

    What we're discussing here is that we need 100% flexibility to have a theoretical possibility that is practically not used.
    Not quite sure, long ago but 5 minimu yeah would guess more. Crit instead of a few partials wasn´t everything but the main difference.

    But atm the differences would become bigger. Well will cap the mits a save morale pool around 200k. And the the differences starts. more morale, bpe, finesse, crit or even mastery, inc heal etc.
    Now we need far more stats as we ever can have so the buiklds will go different. How heal friendly I want to be, or will I be able to surve the figths without a heal, do I want to keep the aggro without force or do I want to be a force dependent #####.
    Will I go to an extremum or take the middle. etc
    And I would bet that the "standard" build used from the mayority even will be far away of what the devs woukl imagine.
    So yeah we need 100% flexibility.
    Last edited by Mukor; Dec 06 2018 at 10:10 AM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    Not quite sure, long ago but 5 minimu yeah would guess more. Crit instead of a few partials wasn´t everything but the main difference.
    Let's say you really, really did it different and used 15 different essences. Since this was long ago, what was the typical slot number at that time? ~30? ~50?
    With a very optimistic view we use half of the flexibility that essences give to us. This is much ado about nothing.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinx View Post
    Let's say you really, really did it different and used 15 different essences. Since this was long ago, what was the typical slot number at that time? ~30? ~50?
    With a very optimistic view we use half of the flexibility that essences give to us. This is much ado about nothing.
    Ok we need minimum around 50% of the stats equal but the devs even don´t hit this 50% binding neccessary. So we need 100% flexibility to be satisfied.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    Ok we need minimum around 50% of the stats equal but the devs even don´t hit this 50% binding neccessary. So we need 100% flexibility to be satisfied.
    Great to be almost on the same page.
    I definitely see the problem with the current gear, but my preferred solution is to get good gear rather than getting bad gear and fixing it with grind. Let's hope we get the good stuff :-)

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinx View Post
    Great to be almost on the same page.
    I definitely see the problem with the current gear, but my preferred solution is to get good gear rather than getting bad gear and fixing it with grind. Let's hope we get the good stuff :-)
    It´s not more grind as we allways done. It seems more cause it´s just for essences but we allways run a lot instances. to get thi shield or that ring etc. With 85 for example and the golden classitems it was even more.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    If you say for yourself, that you don’t need it cause you only run landscape. Atm you've nonslot gear and allways will find it. At least run a few old instances in t1 easely to solo not much harder as landscape, at least with a group it's a total faceroll. And you get your non essence gear. But don't whine later that the others which so the work and build themself near perfect are so much stronger.
    But say remove essence gear and let everyone be limited to the devs knowledge is insane.
    Please, don't worry about me. If there is slotted gear to be had, I'll go get it. it;s not about me, or you, its about a lot more people than that. People who put in the work, have always been, and will always be - stronger than those that don't. It's been that way since the game began, and wont change.

    You keep missing a crucial point in my posts. Here it is again for you . . .

    . . . gear, done properly.

    So yes, I'd much rather the team get rid of the essence system, and put in place gear, that is done right. Yes, I think they are highly capable of doing so, but people calling out for "let me by lots of solvents to play full slot", kinda makes them not want to (who could blame them for that).

    Please don't turn this into some weird argument about difficulty, because that has nothing to do with it. It's about grind. If it were about difficulty, I'd be telling you that you don't need full slot, because, everything can be done without it. It's being done on every server already, with the slot allowances already present in the game.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    It´s not more grind as we allways done. It seems more cause it´s just for essences but we allways run a lot instances. to get thi shield or that ring etc. With 85 for example and the golden classitems it was even more.
    I have a different memory of that time. There was grind, but I cannot remember that it was that much. IMO the late phase of excessive gear grind started with Dol Amroth.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinx View Post
    I have a different memory of that time. There was grind, but I cannot remember that it was that much. IMO the late phase of excessive gear grind started with Dol Amroth.
    In average we run 20 runs of an instances. I this time now you find minimum three essences.

  10. #60
    A little point I'd like to ask:

    With all these "gear is not optimal" and "I need 100% free choice of stats", where does that contradict my main point, that essences should be weaker than their slots? Which obviously is a balancing issue.
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    A little point I'd like to ask:

    With all these "gear is not optimal" and "I need 100% free choice of stats", where does that contradict my main point, that essences should be weaker than their slots? Which obviously is a balancing issue.
    Essences shouldn't be weaker as the slot, cause they are what the messed gear keep alive. Just look at tank gear, heavy far to much crit def, agility far to much resi. Even caster earings are better for tanks as tankearings etc. To the first point why they shouldn't be weaker.

    To the second full slot as an improvment to this mess. Cause we can choose what we want and don't have to fix the dev given gear with just one slot.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    In average we run 20 runs of an instances. I this time now you find minimum three essences.
    This was only needed for people that wanted to have the best shiny item for every slot. At that time we had solutions below that, which gave you something like 90% of the stats with 10% of the efforts. It just required a little consideration and multiple playstyles (from reputation over crafting to a few instance/raid runs).
    Today there is no longer a smart path. Even green essences require ashes (or previously: solvents or recipes).

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    Essences shouldn't be weaker as the slot, cause they are what the messed gear keep alive. Just look at tank gear, heavy far to much crit def, agility far to much resi. Even caster earings are better for tanks as tankearings etc. To the first point why they shouldn't be weaker.

    To the second full slot as an improvment to this mess. Cause we can choose what we want and don't have to fix the dev given gear with just one slot.
    Your points dont make sense.
    The content is balanced on the gear we have. You yourself mentioned, that the gear is so good, that we dont even need any essences at all to run it.
    Still, you want not only perfect stats on gear, you want perfect gear with higher stats.
    Whats the point? What do you need that for? For which content do you need to be godlike?
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    Your points dont make sense.
    The content is balanced on the gear we have. You yourself mentioned, that the gear is so good, that we dont even need any essences at all to run it.
    Still, you want not only perfect stats on gear, you want perfect gear with higher stats.
    Whats the point? What do you need that for? For which content do you need to be godlike?
    It's not my fault that they miss the level of difficulty on the content it should habe. Not to say must have.
    But this doesn't justify to be satisfied with the mess we get on the armour.
    Cause both is #### it doesn't make it good.
    What the next step give All enemies one point morale and cero mits so wearing nö armour is good enough.
    If you look at your stats and what you have how much, you can't be, at least shouldn't be, satisfied.

    It's the same as wearing a bine liner when it's rain. It's work, it's good enough but it look ####ty.

    We need to get pushed to our limits. Or the fun is limited.

    If I want to relax in my free time I watch TV but if I game I want to be required.

  15. #65

    Mukor is the voice of reason on this thread

    We need to have essence slots and the more, the better.

    Essences give us flexibility with our builds and enable us to work around not being given gear with the right stats.

    For example hunters have far more gear dropping in instances and from quartermasters that has parry and evade and not what they need:
    Crit rating, and phys mastery.

    Whether this is an oversight by the Devs or done deliberately to frustrate hunters is not clear.
    However slotted gear solves the problem.

    There are many examples that could be given for other classes.

    So I am glad that the new gear coming with the raid has more slots.
    And I hope that in Update 24, there are even more slots.

    As Mukor said, it's to enable us to perfect and customize our build to personal taste.

    If you don't like slotted gear, don't worry - there is plenty of non-slotted gear available in the game you can use.

    The problem with essences currently is that there is no reliable way of getting them.
    Having to farm thousands of mobs to get the random drop you want is ludicrous.

    There should be a guaranteed way of getting them.
    I would suggest a 100% chance of an essence box on completion of T2 instances.

    The new craftable essences coming out will be a major improvement, however it relies on the Dwarrowgleam shard drop rate, which desparately needs to be increased.

    Finally I want to comment on the #1 requirement listed by the OP:

    Essences at 120 are currently way underpowered.
    This is revealed by the stats on Epic Battle jewellry and teal rewards from regular instances which scaled up mathematically.
    For instance, they were giving 2100 Vitality which is what we SHOULD have on our vitality essences, to deal with the difficulty of the instances at 120.

    But because they have given us such weak essences (less than 900 vitality) and most gear from Skarhald has just over 1000 vitality, they had to nerf all the Epic battle rewards and instance rewards.

    The new instances had to be made much easier because of this (otherwise they would be impossible), but the old instances have not been made easier.

    I would say that currently no one is able to do T2C for many of the old instances, such as Blood of the Black Serpent because of how severely we have been nerfed and how weak essences are currently.

    It's not just vitality that's an issue, it's nearly all the stats.

    For instance, the mitigation essences contribute less than 10k each.
    When a heavy armor character has all the best armor on, they will have somewhere around 100k which is about 150k short of the tactical mitigation cap.
    That means they need 15 essences of tact mit to reach the cap.
    That's just rediculous.
    Even if essence values were doubled, they would need 8 of them, which is still too many.

    Essence values at 120 need a massive boost, in line with the massive boost in stat caps.

    The heavy armor mit caps went from 77k at Level 115 up to 246k at level 120.
    That is an increase of more than 300%.
    Therefore, Level 120 essences should be at least 300% stronger than 115 essences.
    However, they are only about 30% stronger.

    So, in conclusion, currently, Level 120 essences are far too weak and the developers don't seem to be able to see that.

    I would suggest that SSG employs someone very smart and very good with numbers to fix the situation.
    Perhaps a qualified mathematician.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    Finally I want to comment on the #1 requirement listed by the OP:

    Essences at 120 are currently way underpowered.
    This is revealed by the stats on Epic Battle jewellry and teal rewards from regular instances which scaled up mathematically.
    For instance, they were giving 2100 Vitality which is what we SHOULD have on our vitality essences, to deal with the difficulty of the instances at 120.

    But because they have given us such weak essences (less than 900 vitality) and most gear from Skarhald has just over 1000 vitality, they had to nerf all the Epic battle rewards and instance rewards.

    The new instances had to be made much easier because of this (otherwise they would be impossible), but the old instances have not been made easier.

    I would say that currently no one is able to do T2C for many of the old instances, such as Blood of the Black Serpent because of how severely we have been nerfed and how weak essences are currently.

    It's not just vitality that's an issue, it's nearly all the stats.

    For instance, the mitigation essences contribute less than 10k each.
    When a heavy armor character has all the best armor on, they will have somewhere around 100k which is about 150k short of the tactical mitigation cap.
    That means they need 15 essences of tact mit to reach the cap.
    That's just rediculous.
    Even if essence values were doubled, they would need 8 of them, which is still too many.

    Essence values at 120 need a massive boost, in line with the massive boost in stat caps.

    The heavy armor mit caps went from 77k at Level 115 up to 246k at level 120.
    That is an increase of more than 300%.
    Therefore, Level 120 essences should be at least 300% stronger than 115 essences.
    However, they are only about 30% stronger.

    So, in conclusion, currently, Level 120 essences are far too weak and the developers don't seem to be able to see that.

    I would suggest that SSG employs someone very smart and very good with numbers to fix the situation.
    Perhaps a qualified mathematician.
    Please read up how item stats get calculated before you comment nonsense like this.
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    Please read up how item stats get calculated before you comment nonsense like this.
    But He is right, Not in numbers but the essences are weaker as before.
    115 77k mits needed essence gives around 3.5k this are strongly rounded 5% out f need per essence.
    Now we're at 246k mits essence gives around 8k this are only 3%.
    Just für die r an example.
    Not to mention that we're at a point since a long time in which a guard don't cap phy mit just with armour and h shield.
    And so on, so we get douple nerfed. Once with the stats, this is ok but twice with the ####ty stats we get with the gear.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    But He is right, Not in numbers but the essences are weaker as before.
    115 77k mits needed essence gives around 3.5k this are strongly rounded 5% out f need per essence.
    Now we're at 246k mits essence gives around 8k this are only 3%.
    Just für die r an example.
    Not to mention that we're at a point since a long time in which a guard don't cap phy mit just with armour and h shield.
    And so on, so we get douple nerfed. Once with the stats, this is ok but twice with the ####ty stats we get with the gear.
    Its not essences that are weaker. Essences in relation to gear stats are exactly where they were with Mordor and Northern Mirkwood.
    If anything, the rating curves for gear reduced the general item stats, but thats not essence-specific.
    So yea, you could say "players got nerfed" if you look at the new stat curves and how gearstats compares to them. But that has nothing to do with essences and their calculated stats compared to other gear. Exactly nothing.
    And yea... you may require full mits for some weird reason. I dont and neither does Vastin.
    Gear is balanced versus instances and everything works.
    If there are issues with stats currently, those are in balance of mainstats versus secondary stats, which is obviously off balance. But thats it.
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  19. #69
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    Its not essences that are weaker. Essences in relation to gear stats are exactly where they were with Mordor and Northern Mirkwood.
    If anything, the rating curves for gear reduced the general item stats, but thats not essence-specific.
    So yea, you could say "players got nerfed" if you look at the new stat curves and how gearstats compares to them. But that has nothing to do with essences and their calculated stats compared to other gear. Exactly nothing.
    And yea... you may require full mits for some weird reason. I dont and neither does Vastin.
    Gear is balanced versus instances and everything works.
    If there are issues with stats currently, those are in balance of mainstats versus secondary stats, which is obviously off balance. But thats it.
    The gear is only balanced to the content cause the content is far to easy. At least t2 you can tank with 115 gear and this shouldn't be possible not even close.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    The gear is only balanced to the content cause the content is far to easy. At least t2 you can tank with 115 gear and this shouldn't be possible not even close.
    Still, your issue is "gearstats are too low" and it has nothing to do with "essences values compared to gear stat values", which is the topic we were discussing here.

    btw: u24 likely will "fix" your issue (Minas Morgul update will likely give us higher itemlevels and essences and all that, just like north mirkwood did after Mordor), but not touch mine.
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  21. #71

    Level 120 gear is far too weak for Level 120 instances on T2

    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    Its not essences that are weaker. Essences in relation to gear stats are exactly where they were with Mordor and Northern Mirkwood.
    No, at level 120 now, essences are far weaker because the stat caps have been raised to very high levels.

    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Cha...2FDefence_caps

    Compare the cap ratings for 115 vs 120 and you will see that the cap numbers are now 2-3 times greater than at 115.

    This means that numbers on essences need to be 2-3 times stronger (200-300%) to have the same % effect as they did at 115.

    But they are only about 30% stronger than at 115.

    This is where the problem lies, and has not been acknowledged by the devs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    And yea... you may require full mits for some weird reason. I dont and neither does Vastin.
    Gear is balanced versus instances and everything works.
    You obviously don't play a tanking class, as capping mits is very important.

    Have you even tried Thikil-Gundu T3?
    Do you know how hard the 2nd and last bosses will hit you without capped mits?

    Have you tried Blood of the Black Serpent, Quays, or Northcotton Farm T2 recently at 120 or any other instance?

    Please post links to videos of you doing these before you state that gear is balanced and that everything works.
    Otherwise we will have to assume that you've never even tried them.
    Last edited by Gandalfy; Dec 11 2018 at 11:50 PM.

  22. #72
    lol yeah, gl doing T3 and Pellenor T2C without full mits as a tank.

    the problem is you need swaps because right now, you cant cap both phys and tac so you need swaps. I have a bit work to do on my guard so i have like 4-5 swap-pieces for tac atm. My BPE is really bad, if i slot that i loose to much morale.

    Forgot to mention the inc-healing, need swaps for that also. Its alot of essences.
    Last edited by Clerebald; Yesterday at 12:05 AM.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    Still, your issue is "gearstats are too low" and it has nothing to do with "essences values compared to gear stat values", which is the topic we were discussing here.

    btw: u24 likely will "fix" your issue (Minas Morgul update will likely give us higher itemlevels and essences and all that, just like north mirkwood did after Mordor), but not touch mine.
    My issue is miss given stats on the gear.
    Nothingtheless should an essence allways have the same worth compared to the cap.
    EG green 3%, purple 5%, blue 7% and golden 9%.
    And Do not have anything to do with the other given stats.
    The essences have an item level too, so they are a piece of gear for themself.
    Last edited by Mukor; Dec 11 2018 at 11:55 PM.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    But He is right, Not in numbers but the essences are weaker as before.
    115 77k mits needed essence gives around 3.5k this are strongly rounded 5% out f need per essence.
    Now we're at 246k mits essence gives around 8k this are only 3%.
    Not to mention that we're at a point since a long time in which a guard don't cap phy mit just with armour and h shield.
    And so on, so we get douple nerfed. Once with the stats, this is ok but twice with the ####ty stats we get with the gear.
    Yes Mukor we have been nerfed in multiple ways.
    Also you are quoting current nerfed 115 gold essence values, not the old ones.
    The Northern Kingdom gold mitigation essences used to give 8682.
    See this page as proof:
    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Essence
    (However all the old 115 essences have been severely nerfed and you can't use their current values)

    Thus, with the old heavy armor mit cap of 77,840, one gold essence would give more than 11% mitigation.
    Compare this with the best essences now at L120 that only give 3% mitigation, and you can see how much essences have been nerfed.

    Of course it's possible that upcoming teal and gold essences may have much higher values, but that is to be seen to be believed.
    For a L120 essence to give 11% mitigation (like the old Northern Kingdom ones did at 115) it would need a value of 27,000.
    Last edited by Gandalfy; Yesterday at 01:30 AM.

  25. #75
    I dont really like the essence-system either but as it is right now with the incompetence from the devs to make gear with the right stats, we need it. Guard, Warden, Cappy and Beorning wouldnt be able to tank without it. Maybe they want RK, LM and Minstrel to do it with their will and evade stats lol.

 

 
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