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Thread: Warden

  1. #1
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    Warden

    Warden is broken on the new server ...


    Mon titre est dit , on attends les nouvelles des devis ! (j'espère)

    Minstrels ((OP)) 1 shot sérious ??

  2. #2
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    My Warden's fine, thanks very much. (Merci Beaucoup.)

  3. #3
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    You start the warden ?

  4. #4
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    Je vous montre un vrai Warden acharné en combat ^^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B124tGLmpA cheers m'8

  5. #5
    Wardens are indeed broken, saying that your warden is fine is like accepting the fact that your shield hand is gone and you can't make use of it anymore. Where do I start...

    1. First of all, the scale on the warden heals and leaches are broken beyond ridiculousness... at lvl 50 even in blue line, your top heals barely heal you for ~100 HP which is a joke comparing to how overland mobs hit you way harder that that.
    2. The mitigation of damage is again, offset, monsters hit you way too hard and you feel like a piece of paper even fighting 2 or 3 overland mobs, again, this is the result of the heals not being scaled properly.

    That's pretty much about it. I would love to see these issues being addressed, I don't want to have to wait for 4 expansions so that my class can perform as it should.

    Thank you.

    P.S: it's still playable but for endgame content it's not that great, tanking can be a pain and trying to solo things can also be annoying, relying on the fact that you might get lucky and pop a few pots here and there and managing to barely survive is not enjoyable.

  6. #6
    The only post that made any sense here was from wSadur1 where he actually explains the why and not just whining or trolling. And why did Magnumum post a PvMP video from Update 18 when that has absolutely nothing to do with the Legendary Servers? I'd offer some cheese for the PvMP wine but oh wait, that belongs in one of the PvMP sub forums of the classic servers. On the flipside Alairo counters with the very strong (sic), "My Warden's fine".

    I do agree with wSadur1. Self heal gambits and morale taps on Warden are currently in a dismal state. I've had Wardens used to playing prior to the nerf suggest trying to increase my incoming healing rate through Celebration but honestly what is an extra +3.5% Incoming Healing going to do for my heals asides from making them stronger by 2-4 morale? The strategy I have found that works best on the legendary servers is to stack morale and mastery to burn through mobs. At level 43 my Warden has close to 8k morale and 123% mastery and is able to dps and tank quite well, neither of which has anything to do with my self heals. For dps I play as though it is a dps race, and tanking is solely on the healer to keep me alive.

    I'd be more fine with the huge nerf to our self heals and morale taps if they allowed our avoidances to increase from 15% back up to 25% for just our class. Originally our class was designed with the intent of being an avoidance class. Now any avoidance buffs we give ourselves just get dumped into partial avoidances which just makes our supposed avoidance class feel a bit vanilla when compared to other classes.

    As someone who plays both Guardian and Warden let me not even get started on Steadfast which allows us to break free from any combat state but has a monstrous 2 minute cooldown that, even at the 120 cap cannot be reduced in any manner. Sure there is a gambit Shield Tactics that gives stun immunity for 10s but after the benefit wears off you cannot gain the effect for another 20s, which in-turn makes the gambit completely useless.

    I wouldn't go so far as to say that Warden is broken but I would definitely say that there are aspects of our class that need attention.

  7. #7
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    Honestly can't believe someone's complaining about wardens.

    The class may be challenging to learn, but especially at lower levels (which on legendary you are capped at), we are one of the, if not the most OP classes in the game.

    What are you struggling with? I can solo every 3-man instance on-level and I'm not even ultra-geared, nor have I maxed my virtues. I levelled my way up gradually using a Tortoise Stone and relying on quest rewards to solo Goblin-town on level, etc. The only landscape quest I could not complete alone is Ferndur the Virulent — Bogbereth was just fine, the wood-troll leader in Eregion and lair in Angmar all just fine.

    If you're on Ithil, hit me up if you need advice on builds/gears/sequencing. My Ithil warden's name is Naur. I've been playing warden for years (my favourite class) and have a L120 who's completed every quest and landscape deed on the main servers using the tortoise stone to stay on/under level for each, throughout various changes that have been made to the class. The latest one was, far from a nerf, a massive buff.

    Compared to past experiences, the only thing I notice lacking on the Legendary Servers is — concurring with Zonflux and wSadur1 — poor avoidances and self-heals. I suspect however that this has also to do with the fact that we're stuck at 33 trait points for now, which in Blue means we cannot access the capstone 'Revel in Combat' trait. Despite this I do not have trouble tanking any T1 content, raids included, though I haven't yet tried any T2/T3 with a reliable group. As mentioned, I'm under-geared.

    I suspect that only one minor change is really needed to remedy the self-heals situation, and that's letting each agility investment count towards 2 tactical mastery points instead of just 1. I have always felt Wardens should be an agility-heavy class, and that forcing us to rely on vitality to tank — or worse, might gear (at cap level on main servers, yuck) — was either a mistake or an oversight. Agility gives us our avoidances and being an avoidance tank (rather than a mitigation tank) is what set us apart from Guardians. So give us easier access to tactical mastery through agility, and the rest will surely even out.

    Another thing to bear in mind, for those of you playing Wardens for the first time on these servers, is that Moria is going to make a massive difference when it comes out. Wardens aren't pure tanks in the way that Guardians are, which means that if you want to tank, you have to spec for it. A big part of that involves getting a LI that has the right legacies, like the Heal Bonus for Conviction, In the Fray Morale Regen, Shield Gambit Line Healing, etc. We're not broken, we're just premature.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naurduin View Post
    Honestly can't believe someone's complaining about wardens.

    The class may be challenging to learn, but especially at lower levels (which on legendary you are capped at), we are one of the, if not the most OP classes in the game.

    What are you struggling with? I can solo every 3-man instance on-level and I'm not even ultra-geared, nor have I maxed my virtues. I levelled my way up gradually using a Tortoise Stone and relying on quest rewards to solo Goblin-town on level, etc. The only landscape quest I could not complete alone is Ferndur the Virulent — Bogbereth was just fine, the wood-troll leader in Eregion and lair in Angmar all just fine.

    If you're on Ithil, hit me up if you need advice on builds/gears/sequencing. My Ithil warden's name is Naur. I've been playing warden for years (my favourite class) and have a L120 who's completed every quest and landscape deed on the main servers using the tortoise stone to stay on/under level for each, throughout various changes that have been made to the class. The latest one was, far from a nerf, a massive buff.

    Compared to past experiences, the only thing I notice lacking on the Legendary Servers is — concurring with Zonflux and wSadur1 — poor avoidances and self-heals. I suspect however that this has also to do with the fact that we're stuck at 33 trait points for now, which in Blue means we cannot access the capstone 'Revel in Combat' trait. Despite this I do not have trouble tanking any T1 content, raids included, though I haven't yet tried any T2/T3 with a reliable group. As mentioned, I'm under-geared.

    I suspect that only one minor change is really needed to remedy the self-heals situation, and that's letting each agility investment count towards 2 tactical mastery points instead of just 1. I have always felt Wardens should be an agility-heavy class, and that forcing us to rely on vitality to tank — or worse, might gear (at cap level on main servers, yuck) — was either a mistake or an oversight. Agility gives us our avoidances and being an avoidance tank (rather than a mitigation tank) is what set us apart from Guardians. So give us easier access to tactical mastery through agility, and the rest will surely even out.

    Another thing to bear in mind, for those of you playing Wardens for the first time on these servers, is that Moria is going to make a massive difference when it comes out. Wardens aren't pure tanks in the way that Guardians are, which means that if you want to tank, you have to spec for it. A big part of that involves getting a LI that has the right legacies, like the Heal Bonus for Conviction, In the Fray Morale Regen, Shield Gambit Line Healing, etc. We're not broken, we're just premature.

    Boom bada boom ^^ very easy to play a warden in pve ...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    #wardenforlife

    and yea minis can 1 shot, but can they take on 8+ mobs? maybe some can but its not easy. Warden is the ( o Y o )

  10. #10
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    Sometimes Im frustrated with my Warden, sometimes not...at any rate I dont expect to be op out of the gate nor do I sweat the small things I find imbalanced or missing. I wont charge headlong into a fight I cannot win either. The class can use some updates and a few tweeks but otherwise just play the class and make use of the resources available and besides, where there is no risk there likely is no gain. Or at the very least with the Warden, dont bite off more than you can chew.
    The tools are there, the rest is on the player to put them to use just sayin

  11. #11
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    People who say Warden is fine aren't raiders. Pure and simple.
    Thurallor, Warden of Landroval
    Author of plugins: SequenceBars, Reminders, others

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    People who say Warden is fine aren't raiders. Pure and simple.
    I have no trouble having fun with the class but then I'm not a player who thinks the numbers are the priorty over any challenge I face. I took into consideration to not compare apples to oranges and not imply casual players dont notice the inefficiencies of the warden vs the players who raid . I did agree there are some things that should be fixed but to me and my play style I adapt and roll with situations as needed. I do not agree that the class is broken on the legendary server. Just the same I think that sentiment comes from having to begin from scratch and players may scrutinize their character more closely as they go. Thats fine. Needing some work yes but broken no. In the end I admit perhaps Im missing something and could be wrong and so to that I say give it time until we reach beyond SoA

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    People who say Warden is fine aren't raiders. Pure and simple.
    Given the OP seemed to be talking about the Leg (new) servers, and my Warden was about 20 (if that) at the time and performing as expected, raiding or not wasn't really an issue. No idea what level the OP's was.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    People who say Warden is fine aren't raiders. Pure and simple.
    I 5-manned Rift last night as the only primary DPS. (Burg was with us)
    I 7-manned Helegrod as one of 3 DPS.

    We are fine.

    Research the class, experiment with rotation. Get buffed.


    Always Love.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Janos View Post
    I 5-manned Rift last night as the only primary DPS. (Burg was with us)
    I 7-manned Helegrod as one of 3 DPS.
    So much for the idea of an avoidance tank, eh?
    Thurallor, Warden of Landroval
    Author of plugins: SequenceBars, Reminders, others

  16. #16
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    Dec 2017
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    I personally play warden at both 120 and 50 raiding t3 content as a main tank and dps. Yes your self healing is not all that great at 50 but you can tank just fine and dps is one of the highest if not the highest at lvl 50. At 120 I have no issues tanking with 312k morale in a raid and capped mitigations there isn't much I can't handle. I also have guardian at both 50 and 120 and its a much simpler class to tank on with more cd's but wardens listed as an advanced class and thats why I enjoy playing it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naurduin View Post
    Honestly can't believe someone's complaining about wardens.

    The class may be challenging to learn, but especially at lower levels (which on legendary you are capped at), we are one of the, if not the most OP classes in the game.

    What are you struggling with? I can solo every 3-man instance on-level and I'm not even ultra-geared, nor have I maxed my virtues. I levelled my way up gradually using a Tortoise Stone and relying on quest rewards to solo Goblin-town on level, etc. The only landscape quest I could not complete alone is Ferndur the Virulent — Bogbereth was just fine, the wood-troll leader in Eregion and lair in Angmar all just fine.

    If you're on Ithil, hit me up if you need advice on builds/gears/sequencing. My Ithil warden's name is Naur. I've been playing warden for years (my favourite class) and have a L120 who's completed every quest and landscape deed on the main servers using the tortoise stone to stay on/under level for each, throughout various changes that have been made to the class. The latest one was, far from a nerf, a massive buff.

    Compared to past experiences, the only thing I notice lacking on the Legendary Servers is — concurring with Zonflux and wSadur1 — poor avoidances and self-heals. I suspect however that this has also to do with the fact that we're stuck at 33 trait points for now, which in Blue means we cannot access the capstone 'Revel in Combat' trait. Despite this I do not have trouble tanking any T1 content, raids included, though I haven't yet tried any T2/T3 with a reliable group. As mentioned, I'm under-geared.

    I suspect that only one minor change is really needed to remedy the self-heals situation, and that's letting each agility investment count towards 2 tactical mastery points instead of just 1. I have always felt Wardens should be an agility-heavy class, and that forcing us to rely on vitality to tank — or worse, might gear (at cap level on main servers, yuck) — was either a mistake or an oversight. Agility gives us our avoidances and being an avoidance tank (rather than a mitigation tank) is what set us apart from Guardians. So give us easier access to tactical mastery through agility, and the rest will surely even out.

    Another thing to bear in mind, for those of you playing Wardens for the first time on these servers, is that Moria is going to make a massive difference when it comes out. Wardens aren't pure tanks in the way that Guardians are, which means that if you want to tank, you have to spec for it. A big part of that involves getting a LI that has the right legacies, like the Heal Bonus for Conviction, In the Fray Morale Regen, Shield Gambit Line Healing, etc. We're not broken, we're just premature.
    AGREED! First as a primary Warden class player I wished you were on Anor because I sure would take your advice given the chance, I always seek to make my Warden more efficient. Particularly when it comes to the mish-mash of stats that become important when LI's come into play. At 50 I currently have close to maxed tp total with 32 ( master of the spear is somewhere around 176/500 for the deed). I have 2 jewel pieces that raise inc heals by about 800 or so and find that is the boost I needed, so the OP can take that as advice or whatever. Anyway I think you were spot on about where the class is on the Leg servers now +1

  18. #18
    As SSG set up the Legendary Servers with the exact same game version as the other servers it really doesn't matter where you play. It can't be 'broken' on one server type only. it's all or nothing. Yes you're capped on trait points, but so are those at the same level on the other servers.

    I'm not on the one of the Legendary Servers, but I've always played Wardens (red line since that went into effect) and I'm not seeing a problem. I've solo'd lvl 94 NPC's on my lvl 88 so if it was broke that shouldn't have been happening.

    A few pointers: Pick armor / equipment that provides an in combat morale heal, use morale potions and pick your fights, don't try to take on multiple NPC's if you don't have to. Picking the right spec for your game play is also important, as is your stance (melee vs ranged). Match your stance to which of your weapons is more powerful. When I started the javelin's I was seeing weren't as strong as the 1 handed weapons I was getting so I'd go to melee stance and just use my javelin attacks to weaken and pull the targets and finish them with my sword. Now that I've gotten a javelin that's a lot more powerful that my melee weapon I just stay in ranged stance and kill them that way.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Janos View Post
    I 5-manned Rift last night as the only primary DPS. (Burg was with us)
    I 7-manned Helegrod as one of 3 DPS.

    We are fine.

    Research the class, experiment with rotation. Get buffed.

    Always Love.
    I also have experience with being a DD on Anor. And Wardens are solid in that role. No doubt about it. It can be quite enjoyable to just let loose and put up DoTs. And as a DD we have very nice survivability due to Never Surrender.

    However, the class is supposed to be for tanking - and that's a different story. We can kite and off-tank but the hard-hitting bosses like Thaurlach T3 just make Warden-paste. A Guardian, a Captain, or even a well-geared and -played Champion will be preferable to a squishy Warden.

    Some people suggest that the soloing ability of the Warden class is awesome. But that is not a raid-role and in most cases the instances take a lot longer to solo than simply doing as a group. It is still an important point to consider when SSG looks at fixing the Warden tank. Personally I would consider giving Tanking Wardens a Capstone Trait that gives +1% Tactical and Physical mitigation for each fellowship or raid member with 50m (max +10%). That should prevent the buff from being useful when soloing while giving a good buff in fellowships and excellent one in raids. Just a thought...

    Have fun and gambit!
    Zohal
    65 Warden - Leader of The Last Alliance - Anor
    Challenger of the Rift - Challenger of Helegrod

  20. #20
    My warden is more than fine... In fact I never use my mastery skills and have no problem soloing 2 level 51 elites. If you take the time actually read what your gambit lines do and use them properly you wont have any issue. In fact I would say wardens would be better off without the mastery skills... it would force each player to have to build their gambits instead of what we see now. I know people will hate me for that suggestion

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by wSadur1 View Post
    Wardens are indeed broken, saying that your warden is fine is like accepting the fact that your shield hand is gone and you can't make use of it anymore. Where do I start...

    1. First of all, the scale on the warden heals and leaches are broken beyond ridiculousness... at lvl 50 even in blue line, your top heals barely heal you for ~100 HP which is a joke comparing to how overland mobs hit you way harder that that.
    2. The mitigation of damage is again, offset, monsters hit you way too hard and you feel like a piece of paper even fighting 2 or 3 overland mobs, again, this is the result of the heals not being scaled properly.

    That's pretty much about it. I would love to see these issues being addressed, I don't want to have to wait for 4 expansions so that my class can perform as it should.

    Thank you.

    P.S: it's still playable but for endgame content it's not that great, tanking can be a pain and trying to solo things can also be annoying, relying on the fact that you might get lucky and pop a few pots here and there and managing to barely survive is not enjoyable.
    i have limited experiance in Raids but i find the Warden does better than anything else in Landscape.

    if you rely on self heals to Keep you up, imho, you doing it wrong.those are not the only ways of keeping you alive

    get yourself a good Rotation going with Shield-spear , Shield-fist,spear-Shield-fist,spear-Shield-spear and repeat and watch the buffs under your Moral/power bar stack up and watch the White words roll up above your head instead of red numbers.
    i Always go to blue if i expect a hard fight and i start off with battle preparation: Shield-spear-fist-shield and then activate that and then do the rotations above.
    you could Always throw in a fist-shield DoT if you have many
    Damage/Moral Taps/Heals over time are your bread and butter. so getting a Rotation that keeps your buffs active all the time is the science to it.

    eg you know that Gambit A gives self heal and Block Bonus and lasts 20 sec
    Gambit B gives parry Bonus and lasts 20 sec
    Gambit C gives Tactical and Crit mitigations and lasts for 20 seconds

    so then getting your Rotation going A B C A B C A B C will Keep your mits self heal etc up constantly while making Damage at the same time.

    the only Thing i Need to pot is power drink. because the power goes out of my lvl44 warden in Eregion often. but thats the balancing for keeping your mits up constantly.

    Gear also makes a huge difference. i would go AGILITY, VITALITY, PHYSICAL MASTERY and then any other bonusses like Finesse or block Rating etc

    hope that helps. like i said i have mostly just landscaped and found the Groups in Raids too impatiant to allow me , admittadly a bit slow, to prepare gambits to set up the mits before rushing to the next mob.

    if you feel i could be of any help then drop me a tell because i find the Warden a ton of fun and very rewarding and if i can help someone else find that joy then i would be a happy bean!
    on Crickhollow - Thulcalion and on Anor - Astaruil and on Gwaihir - Thenidreth and Fealegwe.

    see ya round
    GWAIHIR Turtegiel - Hunter Onerk - Champ Ferkil - Guardian Fealegwe - Warden

  22. #22
    Join Date
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    I don't know about the comment about them in raids being accurate. In T3 Rift I feel like for sure the top Warden in our Kin is by far the best DPS we have and there are many players equally geared to him.
    Varkking - Dwarf Rune-Keeper - Syndicate - Anor Server
    Moderator of Lord of the Rings On Prime Subreddit.

  23. #23
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    Jun 2011
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    293
    Quote Originally Posted by Fealegwe View Post
    i have limited experiance in Raids but i find the Warden does better than anything else in Landscape.
    You are quite right. Wardens are doing fine in landscape content (as are several other classes - Beornings are nigh unkillable). Unfortunately, "soloing" is not a useful Raid Role. Just like Forced March is a bad combat skill. The buffs needed are - in my opinion - mainly to the Blue Line but done in such a way that they only buff the group play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varkking View Post
    I don't know about the comment about them in raids being accurate. In T3 Rift I feel like for sure the top Warden in our Kin is by far the best DPS we have and there are many players equally geared to him.
    I do fine in the dps role at 50 (as far as I believe) but our tanking abilily in raids is inferior to Guardians, Beornings, Captains, and sometimes even Champions. According to the official role descriptions there are in fact two classes with as primary role as Tank. And Guardian is the other one.

    I have no personal experience with lvl 100+ raiding but I get the impression from various sources that Wardens don't scale quite as well as the other classes in the dps role. So in the endgame raids, we are third rate tanks and second rate dps. Not good.
    Zohal
    65 Warden - Leader of The Last Alliance - Anor
    Challenger of the Rift - Challenger of Helegrod

 

 

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