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  1. Useful traits, useless traits: opinions, rationales

    Hi all,

    I have been experimenting with my champion's builds now that I have enough trait points to have a build (level 50). I am looking for insights into which traits are "skippable" in each line.

    Assume for the purpose of discussion, that I will be running three trait lines: one primarily for tanking. One primarily for single target dps. One primarily for maximum AoE. Are there any traits in each of the respective lines that you think are not worth it? And why? My sense from talking to people is that few go "full blue" for their tanking line. I haven't really heard anything about the traiting for red and yellow.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    20
    For tanking you can refer to this post https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...91#post7893191

    For DPS it is pretty clear, I just post my builds. RED Line: Note that if you are going 2h in DPS, you can take Brutal Strikes. Some champs also like Merciful. For PvP full tratied Harmstring.

    *There might be another Yellow build which goes up to Killing Spree in Red. This build is perfect for non-stop farm large groups of normal mobs.*



    Telliol, Champion of Laurelin.

  3. #3
    OP: How many skill points do you have? Builds are heavily dependant on what you can invest into your skill trees.

    About "which traits can be skipped", here's my list.

    Blue Line:
    1.Agressive Exchange: Short duration, not very effective.
    2. Unstable: More damage on being critically hit? Two things are wrong here:
    2. a) It is a damage buff, but we are in a tanking line, right?
    2. b) It is triggered by crits. But - the higher we push our defences, the less often we are critically hit. (Partially blocked attacks cannot be crits!) So you have to gimp your defences for this trait to be triggered reliably...
    3. Fight Through the Pain: Like Unstable, triggered by being critically hit. Not good. At least, this buffs our defences. (But lessening further being critically hit in the process...)

    Red Line:
    1. Ebbing Ire: Useless on landscape. In instances, maybe usefull when playing yellow line, and the tank is asleep. I didn't trait this ever.
    2. Hamstrung: Probably useful in PvMP. Useless in PvE.
    3. Ahletic: Sprint cooldown. Woo-hooo. (To be honest, I never tried if the stun at three points is useful, but we have our horn for stuns.)

    Yellow line:
    1. Might increase. Might was heavily nerfed with U23. Maybe investing one point is till OK, but not more.
    2. Finesse increase: This one is heavily dependant on your equipment. Already have (nearly) 20% Finesse? Zero points. Much less, and your attacks are constantly blocked and parried? Invest some points.


    And there is that one trait combo I have in every build: Battle Frenzy and Ardent Rage. It gives you insane Fervour regeneration, so you can use your hard-hitting abilities constantly. (In blue line, being in fervour means damage reduction, so it is also useful here.) But I'm not sure you have enough trait points at lvl 50 to include it in every build.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorikon View Post
    OP: How many skill points do you have? Builds are heavily dependant on what you can invest into your skill trees.

    About "which traits can be skipped", here's my list.

    Blue Line:
    1.Agressive Exchange: Short duration, not very effective.
    2. Unstable: More damage on being critically hit? Two things are wrong here:
    2. a) It is a damage buff, but we are in a tanking line, right?
    2. b) It is triggered by crits. But - the higher we push our defences, the less often we are critically hit. (Partially blocked attacks cannot be crits!) So you have to gimp your defences for this trait to be triggered reliably...
    3. Fight Through the Pain: Like Unstable, triggered by being critically hit. Not good. At least, this buffs our defences. (But lessening further being critically hit in the process...)

    Red Line:
    1. Ebbing Ire: Useless on landscape. In instances, maybe usefull when playing yellow line, and the tank is asleep. I didn't trait this ever.
    2. Hamstrung: Probably useful in PvMP. Useless in PvE.
    3. Ahletic: Sprint cooldown. Woo-hooo. (To be honest, I never tried if the stun at three points is useful, but we have our horn for stuns.)

    Yellow line:
    1. Might increase. Might was heavily nerfed with U23. Maybe investing one point is till OK, but not more.
    2. Finesse increase: This one is heavily dependant on your equipment. Already have (nearly) 20% Finesse? Zero points. Much less, and your attacks are constantly blocked and parried? Invest some points.


    And there is that one trait combo I have in every build: Battle Frenzy and Ardent Rage. It gives you insane Fervour regeneration, so you can use your hard-hitting abilities constantly. (In blue line, being in fervour means damage reduction, so it is also useful here.) But I'm not sure you have enough trait points at lvl 50 to include it in every build.
    You will want more than 20% Finesse, it effects partials now, my total partial avoids are now less than 1% with just under 32% Finesse.
    [

  5. Thanks for this. It seems there are some basic disagreements on the value of the "stat" trait points and perhaps the finesse as well.

    On blue line, I see very few people traiting up in dire need, which makes me sad. Is it really that bad?

  6. #6
    The heal of Dire Need heal is based on your maximum power. Problem: Power scales nearly linearly with character level, but morale pool grows exponentially. This means it is a quite good heal at lower levels, but nearly insignificant at lvl cap.

    Two quick examples, assuming it consumes 33% of your power (depends if you have the weapon legacy or not), you have it fully traited, and your power bar is full. It then will drain said 33% of (actual) power, multiply the value by 8 and add that to morale.

    Character lvl 60 (estimated power pool of 3,000):
    (0.33 * 3,000) * 8 = 1,000 * 8 = 8,000
    (Values rounded a bit)
    Advantages:
    - A very big heal! (Don't have exact values how much max morale a blue champ has at that lvl, around 12,000?)
    Disadvantages:
    - big power drain (about ten times as much as other skills at that level)
    - the healing gets weaker the less power you have, so you need to check your power first, maybe hit Second Wind beforehand

    Character lvl 120 (estimated power pool of 6,000):
    (0.33 * 6,000) * 8 = 2,000 * 8 = 16,000
    (Values rounded again)
    Doesn't sound so bad at first...but a blue champ has 120,000+ morale at lvl 120. 16,000 morale isn't much. So...
    Advantages:
    -
    Disadvantages:
    - weak heal (less than 15% of max morale)
    - big power drain
    - the healing gets even weaker the less power you have

    I see Dire Need as a panic skill similar to the Guardian's Warrior's Heart. Which (at lvl 120) gives nearly a full heal when fully traited + with legacy, and costs ~250 power. Very balanced.

  7. Excellent response. Thank you!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    20
    ".but a blue champ has 120,000+ morale at lvl 120."

    Blue champ has 200,000+ morale at lvl120 (ofc, you should have second set of tanking gear). So Dire Need is even more useless.
    Telliol, Champion of Laurelin.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    449
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkryft View Post
    ".but a blue champ has 120,000+ morale at lvl 120."

    Blue champ has 200,000+ morale at lvl120 (ofc, you should have second set of tanking gear). So Dire Need is even more useless.
    Just endgame useless. At 60, my Blue Champ has 9000 morale, and Dire Need, traited, heals 4000. (Maybe 8k, need to double check the tool tip). That's nothing to sneeze at in either case. Sure, I'll respec the trait tree later on, but for now Dire Need is an important survival tool.
    Immigrant from the City of Paragon. We are heroes. This is what we do.

    Founding member of Mornost Gwend of Gladden. "We shout a lot!"

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Seschat View Post
    Just endgame useless. At 60, my Blue Champ has 9000 morale, and Dire Need, traited, heals 4000. (Maybe 8k, need to double check the tool tip). That's nothing to sneeze at in either case. Sure, I'll respec the trait tree later on, but for now Dire Need is an important survival tool.
    You just need killing spree for leveling, what is more then enough survivalbility
    Gertes

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    13
    AFAIK
    Red line -% Attack Duration does not work in Yellow line. Is this true or false?
    Hamstrung is often overlooked for PvE content because of the point cost but works on most bosses as a CC. This is incredibly useful if you can cancel abilities or attacks mid-animation. Obligatory in PVP though.
    Great Cleave and Damage modifier is a pretty useless skill. 2 min cd for small damage increase isn't worth 6 points.
    Same goes for Blade of Courage/Killing Spree unless your solo farming.

 

 

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